Agents and editing services

MsGneiss · Feb 2, 2009

I am not sure if this is the right place to post this, but I really feel compelled, it case it might help somebody. Sorry if it's in the wrong place, I am still very much an AW newbie!

When I was querying my book, there was an overwhelming temptation to hire an outside editor to help with the manuscript. Numerous rejections after full requests made me feel that there was something editorially wrong, since my query got enough attention for numerous fulls. I even went around and got quotes from several editors (which ranged from $500 - $3000). The price was too much, and that's really the only thing that kept me from hiring somebody. Then, miraculously, I got an offer of representation from one of my top choices, and signed the contract. Following, we went through a heavy editing process, where I took the agent's input, as well as that of her readers, and fixed what she thought was wrong with the manuscript. She also had the manuscript professionally edited (right after we signed the contract) and now that we are at the end of our editing process, and she is getting ready for submission to publishers, she is having the manuscript line-edited by an in-house person devoted to just this sort of work. It is my understanding, now, that this sort of process is common!

I just want to put this out there, because I am sure there are many writers out there, looking for an agent, who are so tempted, as I was, to pay outrageous prices for somebody to go over their manuscript. And it's really not necessary at all. A good agent, if really interested in your voice and your story, will see past the editorial problems, and will eventually have your manuscript edited, with no cost to you.

So, there we have it. Maybe this will save somebody a couple of hundred dollars.

ChaosTitan · Feb 2, 2009

sleepsheep said:
Following, we went through a heavy editing process, where I took the agent's input, as well as that of her readers, and fixed what she thought was wrong with the manuscript. She also had the manuscript professionally edited (right after we signed the contract) and now that we are at the end of our editing process, and she is getting ready for submission to publishers, she is having the manuscript line-edited by an in-house person devoted to just this sort of work. It is my understanding, now, that this sort of process is common!

Others may chime in with an experience similar to yours, but I've not heard of agents using pro-editors to edit manuscripts before submission. Of course, that doesn't mean they don't. There are agents who don't do any editing at all prior to submitting.

My agent offered his revision suggestions, I made them, we went on submission.

But I do agree with your statement of not spending money on professional editors.

MsGneiss · Feb 2, 2009

I think it depends largely on the state of your manuscript and your own line-editing abilities (of which I have none). My agent said that a few years ago, my manuscript would be good to go, but with today's difficult market, we need to make it as polished as possible, and of course, I totally agree.

IceCreamEmpress · Feb 2, 2009

ChaosTitan said:
I've not heard of agents using pro-editors to edit manuscripts before submission.

As a freelance editor myself, I can tell you that this happens quite often (and my bank account is the happier for it).

However, anyone who wants a career in writing would be well served to learn how to edit their own work. Freelance editors are helpful for people who want to publish a book but who don't want a career as a writer (chefs publishing cookbooks, for instance, or people writing a one-time memoir about a single extraordinary experience).

MsGneiss · Feb 2, 2009

In my case, the first edit was done by several people on the agency staff whose purpose it was to go over manuscripts. The second edit, currently being done, is also by an agency staff member, but somebody who is strictly a line editor. I agree with IceCreamEmpress - learning the editing tricks has been one of the most challenging aspects of my first venture into the book publishing business (that's because I'm completely blocking out the miserable time I spent querying).

Danthia · Feb 2, 2009

My agent asked for revisions, but we didn't hire anyone. She said what she thought would improve the book and I did it. Took two passes to get it where she wanted it, then off it went on submission. I did several more revision passes once I sold it, but that was with the editor who bought it, then their copy editor.

I haven't heard of outside editors being hired. I also don't see why you'd need a line edit at the submission stage. It's going to happen at the publisher's anyway. But I suppose everyone has their own style and if this has worked for this agent that's great for both of you

IceCreamEmpress · Feb 2, 2009

Danthia said:
I also don't see why you'd need a line edit at the submission stage.

It's not unusual that someone with a really good idea and/or really impressive credentials doesn't have the best grasp of pacing, structure, or even the fundamentals of English.

And a manuscript that reads smoothly and clearly is a lot more likely to sell than a manuscript that doesn't.

Yeshanu · Feb 3, 2009

You don't say whether your manuscript is fiction or non-fiction. I'm thinking that the process you described might be more usual for non-fiction, when books are often written by experts on a particular subject, and not by someone who's a professional writer.

Anyhow, congrats on getting representation. It does sound like you've got a good book there, given the numerous requests for fulls you got before finding an agent.

Danthia · Feb 3, 2009

IceCreamEmpress said:
It's not unusual that someone with a really good idea and/or really impressive credentials doesn't have the best grasp of pacing, structure, or even the fundamentals of English.

And a manuscript that reads smoothly and clearly is a lot more likely to sell than a manuscript that doesn't.

Seriously? That blows my mind. Does this happen a lot in fiction or is it more with non-fiction? It makes sense with non-fiction since the experts probably aren't always writers.

IceCreamEmpress · Feb 4, 2009

Danthia said:
Seriously? That blows my mind. Does this happen a lot in fiction or is it more with non-fiction? It makes sense with non-fiction since the experts probably aren't always writers.

Yes, more with non-fiction. But not always.

Chefs who write cookbooks, for instance, often need help from editors because they're used to communicating verbally and through gesture. Doctors, perhaps more surprisingly, also need help because they are used to writing papers for medical journals and/or dictating chart notes, so their prose can be very stilted when they try to write for the average reader.

As for fiction, there are some people whose ideas are distinctive enough that agents are willing to take a chance on them despite poor mechanics. What can I say about that except that it does happen.

Danthia · Feb 5, 2009

Thanks Empress! I learn some thing new every day. I never would have expected that of fiction, since the cost of the editor would probably take a big chunk of out the agent's commission. I guess if they think the idea is likely to get a big advance, they'd invest in it.

IceCreamEmpress · Feb 5, 2009

Danthia said:
the cost of the editor would probably take a big chunk of out the agent's commission.

To be honest, I don't know who pays for editors in these situations--it might well be the author in the long run (agent fronts money to editor, gets reimbursed off the top of the advance).

Danthia · Feb 5, 2009

IceCreamEmpress said:
To be honest, I don't know who pays for editors in these situations--it might well be the author in the long run (agent fronts money to editor, gets reimbursed off the top of the advance).

That would stink if true. Usually that's the sign of a scammer. I suppose authors can always say no, but what author is going to say no if their agent suggests it? It's hard being a writer these days, huh?

Oh, I mean that for fiction authors only. Non-fiction projects are a whole other ball of wax and this wouldn't apply to them

IceCreamEmpress · Feb 5, 2009

Danthia said:
That would stink if true. Usually that's the sign of a scammer.

No, a scammer would ask the author to pay up front. Agents charging authors for extraordinary expenses off the top of an advance is standard practice.

Danthia · Feb 6, 2009

IceCreamEmpress said:
No, a scammer would ask the author to pay up front. Agents charging authors for extraordinary expenses off the top of an advance is standard practice.

I suppose that's true. Still feels off to me that an agent would take on a novel and charge the author for editing services, even if it's after the book sells. But then, I have a great agent who have a wonderful editing eye, so my view on this might be skewed

And I can easily see a non-fiction agent with some fiction projects following this practice, since most of their clients would find it helpful. I've just never heard any agents talk about doing this with their fiction clients, so it feels "out there" to me, lol. "Paying for editing" has always been one of those red flags of danger, and you rarely hear the other side of it.

Thanks for all the great info Empress

This has been interesting to learn.

sundawson · Feb 6, 2009

Hi. Not sure this is right for here...anyone know if there's a general rule that if an agent requests a full ms. but doesn't respond fast then it's most likely a NO?

Danthia · Feb 6, 2009

sundawson said:
Hi. Not sure this is right for here...anyone know if there's a general rule that if an agent requests a full ms. but doesn't respond fast then it's most likely a NO?

Doesn't mean a thing. Agents have clients and lots of responsibilities, and submissions tend to be last on their To-Do lists. If your novel hit their desk the same time three of their top clients handed them new manuscripts, they'll read those first and get to you later.

Check their website if they have one. They usually tell you their average turn around time. Rule of thumb is to wait a month past that and send an inquiry on the status.

sundawson · Feb 6, 2009

Thanks. But does anyone know what I'm driving at? It seems that those writers who've posted here with a "I received offer of rep" got that offer within a week or less, days. Can anyone who has an agent now, who's gotten one recently, try and respond to this? How long from the point of full request did your current agent contact with offer of represenation? Anyone a few months? If you could respond, please!

Danthia · Feb 7, 2009

sundawson said:
Thanks. But does anyone know what I'm driving at? It seems that those writers who've posted here with a "I received offer of rep" got that offer within a week or less, days. Can anyone who has an agent now, who's gotten one recently, try and respond to this? How long from the point of full request did your current agent contact with offer of represenation? Anyone a few months? If you could respond, please!

I had three offers overall. One came in under a week of seeing my ms, one came a few weeks after, and one came in three months after.

Toothpaste · Feb 7, 2009

Well after my request for a full from my agent it took her two months to get back to me. And then she wanted some edits, which I did in two weeks. It was only after that that she offered representation. Is that more what you were looking for?

lkp · Feb 7, 2009

sundawson said:
Hi. Not sure this is right for here...anyone know if there's a general rule that if an agent requests a full ms. but doesn't respond fast then it's most likely a NO?

There is no general rule. You can wait a year and get an offer.

MsGneiss · Feb 9, 2009

I had a similar experience to Toothpaste. My agent got back to me pretty quickly after receiving my query, and after receiving my full. We talked on the phone and she told me about her interest, but didn't make an offer. (I've posted many desperate things on AW at that point, by the way). She requested some edits, which I did very quickly. She then requested some more edits, which I also did very quickly. At that point, she made me an official offer, and I signed the contract. She loved my voice and the idea of the book, but wanted to see whether I was capable of doing the editing that the manuscript required.

Agents and editing services

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