Bronze-Blade Decapitation? (sorry!)

It's not really feasible with a bronze sword in a single swing unless it is wielded by Hercules. However, there were reports of decapitations with axes at executions. That's a bit different than battle. Do the heads have to be intact? A skilled warrior could easily concieveably smash two heads with a club.

If I remember your previous posts, your story takes place in Egypt. They did at that time have some exceedingly sharp swords made from wood and then impregnated with chips of stone. I don't remember what they were called. This was a slashing weapon which might easily cut throats and other fleshy parts but would not realistically decapitate.

I don't think it would be impossible with a bronze blade. I guess I have no real basis for that, besides the observation that its merely an application of force. . There are accounts of Aztec warriors decapitating the horses of Conquistadores with their wood and obsidion macuahuitls, so I don't see why one couldn't do it with a bronze sword.

Sarpedon said:

I don't think it would be impossible with a bronze blade.

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Right, not impossible to maybe do it once on a standing/moving target, but two in a row? That'd be difficult even with a steel bastard sword. I've not read of the Aztec weapon, but it sounds much like the early Egyptian swords. My suspicion, from what I know of Antiquity and modern science is that there was a lot of poetic license in the old war accounts. I don't doubt that one of those weapons might, in the right hands, cut down to the bone, but I doubt it could truly decapitate in the modern sense. Cutting through bone requires less brittle substances, especially if the weapon is to do it twice.

When we butcher pigs we've often, just on a see what it takes, kind of thing tried to hack off the head. Even if you cut out all the meat down to the bone and then try to make a single whack to cleave the neck using a steel cleaver it is exceptionally difficult.

hmm, yeah, two in a row sounds a little much. maybe if he did two different strokes in a row. japanese katanas were said to be able to cut through three torsos in one blow, but that is a little far fetched for a bronze sword.

Also remember that even with steel technology during the French Revolution, they went to the guillotine because the axmen were not reliable enough, and that was even with a downward chop where gravity assists and they are chopping against a stump. A sideswing where some of the force will go toward pushing the victim over makes complete decapitation even less likely. But again, dead is dead, so cutting half way through the neck is the same as all the way through as far as the victim is concerned.

If they just have to be dead, having their heads smashed is very believeable whereas a clean decapitation would be stretching it. If you remember the Iliad, it wasn't uncommon to identify a body by the armor etc. On the other hand, bards of old took poetic license with warriors' feats, so you could too. I'm not sure how many readers would be in a position to know how difficult it would be to actually decapitate and so then be offended if it isn't accurate. You are after all writing a story to be entertaining. In terms of the best mix of entertaining and following the laws of physics, I'd suggest you might decapitate one and skewer the other with a punctured lung. Having a lung punctured will silence people. You can't yell if you can't breathe. That way, if you need the faces intact for identification purposes they would be fine. If it helps, the Egyptians routinely washed the bodies prior to burial. This means blood would not hinder identification.

What does it LOOK like? Take a melon and a hammer and go outside...

I hear that in a quick, violent death, the extremities sometimes shake. ...ugh.

If you want to see a picture of someone with a crushed head so you can have a better idea of how to describe it, you can look up one of those sites that shows graphic war pictures and stuff. I think Ogrish was the most famous. Morbid curiosity made me look *shudder*

Now, if you want to do some experimentation, I hear that a coconut is a reasonable analogue of a human skull. Maybe find yourself a nice, big, hard potato too, if you want a good idea of the sound. Tie a big rock or a piece of metal securely to a stick and have at it, or maybe just find yourself a good 1 handed sledgehammer. And remember, living bone doesn't make as much of a crack as dead, dry bone does...I would imagine it would be more of a snap.

Or if you want to really go all out and scare the neighbors as well, get a fresh pig's head, something like that should be available if you look in the right places. You should also have someone record this, so you can listen/look at it for reference afterward.

SS, I didn't read all the posts so excuse me if I repeat what has been offered so far.

I have seen films of people being decapitated. Some were murdered. others were executed using steel saber type of blade. In either case there is more blood than you can imagine. Also this doesn't happen quietly as in Hollywood films. It's a very noisy affair with lots of screaming after the first blow followed by a loud groan. You get the picture?

Also it's important to understand is that the neck muscles are very strong. Even a sharp blade in the hands of an executioner will take more than one blow. The Japanese are a clear exception, however, the particular composition of their swords and their skill make the difference.

Most people who kill with a sword are not practiced in pinpoint blows.

Bronze doesn't lend itself to single or multiple stroke decapitation because, as has been noted, they don't hold a sharp edge. The Egyptian sword would be straight and used for stabbing not slashing which would be necessary to remove someone's head.

No matter how these people are dispatched remember the sound. Death always comes quickly, the way to death is often a long and painful affair--even for the bad guys.
C

sirensix said:

Anyone actually seen this? Things about it you wouldn't expect? The sound, the color, the way the face/body reacts to it?.

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The only bones I've heard break were my own which I'd describe as a popping crunching sound. All the other ones were either in the ER, where they came in broken and I only saw the after effects, or in the OR, where the bones are sawed and or chisled which isn't going to be the same. I read an American Civil War account in a diary once where somebody described the sound of someone else's head being smashed with a rifle butt as sounding "just like a ripe melon being crushed underfoot".

Lethal head injuries...once in a while you see a very grotesque thing where one of the eyes is trying to pop out of the head. The eye muscles keep it from doing the Hollywood thing of actually seeing the Optic Nerve. It bulges out in a very assymmetric way. You can see the edges of those muscles and the eye just sort of staring off not in conjunction with the other one, immediately know there must be horrible injuries underneathe. The real thing is more unnerving than the Hollywood.

The head bleeds profusely because a big chunk of the blood supply goes there and we don't have much in the way of musculature and other things to naturally stop the bleeding without external pressure. In head injuries, usually there is so much blood matting the hair and covering the skin that sometimes it can be difficult to say what race or gender someone is if all you could see was the face.

Are these people trained fighters? Because a head chopping swing has to come from the shoulder, i.e., it is relatively slow. They aren't just going to stand there and let it happen. Once, maybe, but definately not twice.