When will these emmeffers ever get it?

kristie911

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I'd like to bitch slap one of these CEO's.

At least then I'd feel like I got my money's worth.

Morons.
 

brokenfingers

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The problem isn't so much recent bad decisions as much as it's a whole mindset.

The amazing thing to me is that these executives actually believe they deserve those multi-million dollar bonuses and perks.

The people who operate at such a level remind me of those who were once a part of the aristocracy. Their mindset was similar: "Yes, yes, those rules are good for them, but we're different. Let them eat cake."

In the last few decades a whole new class has developed that is mostly removed from the burdens and pitfalls that the regular person endures. It does not feel it has to share the sacrifices of common society. They feel no empathy. To them, we are just the consumer, the borrower, the worker - subclasses wholly dependent upon them.

They wield great power and influence and disproportionately affect our government and way of life. They have influenced many laws and general political directions (as well as careers) to engender an environment more hospitable for them - but not so much for the common man.

And so here we find ourselves.
 

Teleute

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I've also read and seen on TV incidents of executives redecorating their offices with $80,000 rugs and their personal office bathrooms with $10,000 toilets. And of course there was the corporate retreat for AIG, and the $100,000 party for another company the government bailed out...

Ever since the nineties, there's been something really wrong with corporate culture. I think there's something fundamentally wrong with the structure.

The owners of the company are stockholders, right? And the stockholders elect a board of directors to represent them. The board of directors hires executives and determines executive pay and bonuses.

Who's on the board of directors? Other executives. Former and current CEO's. So you can have a situation where the CEO of Company A is on the board of directors at Company B, and the CEO of Company B is on the board of directors at Company A. You scratch my back, I'll scratch yours, right?

I think this is how executive compensation got so out of hand. How else explain the fact that failing CEO's get severance packages of--for example, at Disney a few years ago--$144 million? Or at Home Depot - $210 million? How does it serve the stockholders' interest to subsidize failure like this?

The question is what can be done about it.
 

blacbird

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The owners of the company are stockholders, right? And the stockholders elect a board of directors to represent them.

Herein lies a big part of the problem. Most "stockholders" don't even know what they own, because they're invested in mutual funds and other blanket vehicles, all of which serve to obscure the details of the actual investments. That includes me. Yes, I get quarterly statements, which are usually as readable as clay tablets from Babylon. And, yes, I probably should do more to ferret out the relevant information, but the migraines produced . . .

So, how many board meetings have I gone to? Zero. I'd guess that goes for most people here. The mutual funds I'm in invest in other funds, which invest in other funds, and somewhere down the line, some shares in corporations get traded. And the people doing that trading and managing of funds belong to the very cabal that sits on all the boards.

This level of opacity in the investment world is what allows the Bernie Madoffs to do what they do, too. The guy who offed himself in his office following the initial Madoff disclosures wasn't an individual investor; he was another investment manager who had passed client money on to Madoff. Chances are most of his clients didn't have a clue.

caw
 

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If I ever had to fly commercial (any class) anywhere in the US again, I'd do everything I could to avoid it, too. :D
 

blacbird

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Actually, from the reports I've seen, they were attempting to replace much older planes that cost them more to operate.

Take a step back: Why do these guys need private jets in the first place? Especially now?.

"The old ones cost us more to operate" is an excuse mantra of the most obvious sort. "The old $5,000 desk chair wasn't comfortable enough, and interfered with my efficiency at work, so I need a new $20,000 one." "My immediate staff would be able to work far more efficiently if they had a corporate retreat in the Bahamas for a week." "That Monet would go very well behind my desk, and would make my work environment so much more placid and conducive to my productivity." etc. etc.

"Oh, and by the way, we need to cut staff by 20%. Atkins, draft a press release."

Conservatives are fond of blasting lower-income people for having "entitlements". If you want a sense of "entitlement", go look at CEOs and Boards of Directors of big corporations. John Thain, ex-CEO of Merrill Lynch, for example.

caw
 
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benbradley

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"Yes, yes, those rules are good for them, but we're different. Let them eat cake."
"Let them fly in propellor-driven airplanes."
Take a step back: Why do these guys need private jets in the first place? Especially now?.
In fact, didn't one executive from Detroit finally figure out he could drive a car to Washington instead of taking the corporate jet?

I wonder if he offered to carpool with the other guys.
 

blacbird

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"Let them fly in propellor-driven airplanes."In fact, didn't one executive from Detroit finally figure out he could drive a car to Washington instead of taking the corporate jet?

Minor editorial correction:

didn't one EFFING AUTO COMPANY executive from Detroit finally figure out he could drive a car

Most of them probably use chauffeurs.

At company expense.

caw
 

mscelina

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But you look good in ties.

No, these CEOs don't get it. They'll never get it. They live in a world so removed from the rest of us that their concepts of reality are skewed. To us, 50 million is a Lotto win. To them, it's chump change. They can justify any expenditure (like,oh, I don't know--college bowl games) as being good for the company and taking American tax dollars from our dubious 'bailout' to pay for them.
 

benbradley

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But you look good in ties.

No, these CEOs don't get it. They'll never get it. They live in a world so removed from the rest of us that their concepts of reality are skewed. To us, 50 million is a Lotto win. To them, it's chump change. They can justify any expenditure (like,oh, I don't know--college bowl games) as being good for the company and taking American tax dollars from our dubious 'bailout' to pay for them.
A sports sponsorship is surely one thing that is negotiated well ahead of time (lile a year or more, perhaps signing a contract for several years of endorsement), and can't easily be broken, unless breaking such contracts are written into the bill that Congress passes for funding the corporation.

Surely not everything is due to greedy executives spending money indiscriminately in spite of receiving government bailout funds.
 

blacbird

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A sports sponsorship is surely one thing that is negotiated well ahead of time (lile a year or more, perhaps signing a contract for several years of endorsement), and can't easily be broken.

Didn't take long for Enron Field in Houston to be renamed Minute Maid Park. The fact that a very left-wing Democratic Congressman and a very right-wing Republican Congressman have joined forces on this one should indicate something. The baseball stadium is built and ready for the Mets to get beat again by the Phillies, beginning in April. The Mets have the biggest payroll in the National League, and the third biggest in baseball. They should be able to afford the ballpark, whether or not Citi pays for the naming privilege.

I proposed the new name Rollins-Hamels Stadium.

caw
 
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mscelina

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True. However, the irony of these financial instituations hosting football bowl games after asking for and receiving bailout money is staggering.

http://lamelist.com/index.php/2009/01/bailout-bowl-football-bowl-games-sponsored-by-bailout-recipients/


“Some of the advertising folks at these firms might think it’s important to put their corporate brand on public events, but taxpayers might think they’re being taken for a ride,” said Pete Sepp, vice president for policy and communications at the National Taxpayers Union.

Rep. Scott Garrett (R., N.J.) ,,, questioned why banks — which reportedly aren’t using federal funds to lend to consumers as intended — need to sponsor nationally televised sporting events. “The irony is these guys aren’t lending to people, so what are they advertising for?” Mr. Garrett said.

“There’s interestingly zero sense of shame” from banks paying for vanity advertising, said Grover Norquist, president of Americans for Tax Reform.

It's just another case of the lack of oversight, the failure of the government to dictate terms to these institutions as to how this money should be spent and for what. So a contact for a sports sponsorship is somehow superseding the responsibilities of these institutions to manage the money that WE lent them? These same corporations were laying people off while forking over cash so that college football teams could participate in a game. A GAME.

Everyone knows I'm a football fanatic. But I think this op ed from George Will pretty well sums up how I feel about the bailout money and how the money was used. What's the big deal about the jet? Citibank hosted the Rose Bowl and I'll bet it cost a hell of a lot more than 50 million to do that.

The OP was do they get it? My answer is no, they don't. Luxury jets and CEO golden umbrellas are just a minute peek at the problem. The problem stems from the way these corporations view money--and the sense of entitlement they display as to how they will spend the money they were given in a time of desperation.
 

icerose

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Here's an idea, everyone who is disgusted with these companies, stop supporting them. We bank through a bank that did not go under, did not beg for help. When we eventually buy a vehicle it will not be from one of the stupid auto companies. Disgusted with the companies? Stop supporting them. This all disgusts me. The government A. should not have ever bailed them out. B. even though they did they should have had many stipulations. How can so many "smart" people be so stupid?
 

sulong

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Has it occurred to anyone that the so-called emmeffers do get "it"?
The emmeffers objective is to collect money, not make main-street happy. We all can stop complaining and go eat grass. Thats our collective bed.
 

astonwest

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Buying plane tickets, even first class, would probably be cheaper.
But in business, time is money. A company who can get people to places faster has an advantage. I don't know where this company flies to, but there are several companies out there who need to fly into smaller cities and airports that airlines don't service.

The economy around these parts was weathering the storm fairly well until people started getting irate about business jets, when congress started forcing people to divest their business aircraft, and started mouthing off. Now, everything is tanking...but no one stops to think what sort of impact that $50 million jet has to the overall economy. It's all about sticking it to the CEOs.

:rolleyes:

"The old ones cost us more to operate" is an excuse mantra of the most obvious sort. "The old $5,000 desk chair wasn't comfortable enough, and interfered with my efficiency at work, so I need a new $20,000 one." "My immediate staff would be able to work far more efficiently if they had a corporate retreat in the Bahamas for a week." "That Monet would go very well behind my desk, and would make my work environment so much more placid and conducive to my productivity." etc. etc.
If you had an old V8 Buick that was costing you tons in repairs, upkeep and fuel...would you think it silly to buy yourself a new car?

"Let them fly in propellor-driven airplanes."
Time is money...speed is time...and if you're trying to hold meetings in the back of a turboprop while flying to your destination, you're likely going to run into trouble.

In fact, didn't one executive from Detroit finally figure out he could drive a car to Washington instead of taking the corporate jet?
Actually, they all figured that out after Washington chided them for flying the first time.

True. However, the irony of these financial instituations hosting football bowl games after asking for and receiving bailout money is staggering.

<snip>

Everyone knows I'm a football fanatic. But I think this op ed from George Will pretty well sums up how I feel about the bailout money and how the money was used. What's the big deal about the jet? Citibank hosted the Rose Bowl and I'll bet it cost a hell of a lot more than 50 million to do that.
But that's okay...because the general public loves sports. Most people aren't involved with business jets, their usage, or what they offer to businesses. If they didn't have the Rose Bowl because they couldn't get a sponsor to pony up, there would probably be an uprising.

:rolleyes:
The OP was do they get it? My answer is no, they don't. Luxury jets and CEO golden umbrellas are just a minute peek at the problem. The problem stems from the way these corporations view money--and the sense of entitlement they display as to how they will spend the money they were given in a time of desperation.
The trouble is, Washington is deep in these people's pockets. I'm not going to excuse CEOs, because many of them do very crooked things. But the politicians are the real ones to lay blame on here. Instead of forking over billions upon billions (with billions more to come) to big corporations, why not send that money directly into the hands of people who can spend it and thus improve the economy?

Because the general public doesn't lobby as hard as industry. :(
 

Susan Gable

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Because the general public doesn't lobby as hard as industry. :(

Maybe it's high time we did. If enough of us flooded the Capital, maybe we'd get their attention?

If the number of people who showed up for the inaguration showed up to tell them to keep their damn hands from digging any deeper into our pockets, do you think they'd take that as a wake-up call?

We're throwing more and more money out the window. How does a skateboard park project stimulate the economy? This huge spending spree is just pork by a fancier, more "acceptable" name.

Susan G.
 

blacbird

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But in business, time is money. A company who can get people to places faster has an advantage. I don't know where this company flies to, but there are several companies out there who need to fly into smaller cities and airports that airlines don't service.

If you think all, or even most, corporate exec business travel is time-contingent to the level that justifies a private jet, you have never worked for a big corporation. That jet is just another part of the culture of opulence and ostentation that can be seen in the exec inner sanctums of most large corporations.

caw
 

blacbird

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Instead of forking over billions upon billions (with billions more to come) to big corporations, why not send that money directly into the hands of people who can spend it and thus improve the economy?

On this, we completely agree. If the problem started with too many people being forced into mortgage default via bad ARMs, etc., thus overleveraging the banks, why is it okay to pour money into the banks, but not to put it toward individuals paying the mortgages, thereby putting the money back into banks?

We're still operating under a Reaganesque philosophical cloud that says, give extra money to the wealthy, because they'll funnel it down into the economy. Right. That's why the economy is so rosy right now, isn't it?

caw
 

Don

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Maybe it's high time we did. If enough of us flooded the Capital, maybe we'd get their attention?

If the number of people who showed up for the inaguration showed up to tell them to keep their damn hands from digging any deeper into our pockets, do you think they'd take that as a wake-up call?
I just watched V for Vendetta again this afternoon. You may be onto something here. :)

Remember, remember the Fifth of November,
The Gunpowder Treason and Plot,
I know of no reason the Gunpowder Treason,
Should ever be forgot.
 

astonwest

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If you think all, or even most, corporate exec business travel is time-contingent to the level that justifies a private jet, you have never worked for a big corporation. That jet is just another part of the culture of opulence and ostentation that can be seen in the exec inner sanctums of most large corporations.
It still means that people building those jets get to keep jobs...but then, maybe the aircraft industry will get a major bailout too. They'll just have to give up their company cars. :)

Trouble is that when big government gets on a soapbox and lambasts the use of business jets, and put provisions in their legislation to forbid it, they set things in motion for even smaller corporations to stop using them.
 

blacbird

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Trouble is that when big government gets on a soapbox and lambasts the use of business jets, and put provisions in their legislation to forbid it, they set things in motion for even smaller corporations to stop using them.

First, I have yet to see any proposal by anyone to legislate "forbidding" this, or anything else. What's been done is to throw a klieg light on such practices, and, interestingly, the execs involved have instantly been embarrassed. Which means they know damn well it looks bad, at the very least.

It's not a matter of that $50M being spent on the jet, or not spent at all. It's a matter of the money priority. That $50M could be spent on any number of other things that might help bring the company more value, and would thereby fund work fully as well as purchasing the jet would. By your logic, Citi could justify laying off a couple thousand workers in order to permit purchase of some expensive Van Goghs and Picassos and Renoirs for the upstairs offices, thus benefitting the high-level art auction industry.

caw