In These Bad Times (very disturbing story)

I don't think anyone's allowed to start new threads in TIO. Maybe the folks in P&CE would welcome this thread?

With so many layoffs announced yesterday, among others already out there on the way...I imagine this probably won't be the last time we see this type of story. Sadly...

With so many layoffs announced yesterday, among others already out there on the way

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It's a little simplistic to blame this kind of act on the economy.

TerzaRima said:

It's a little simplistic to blame this kind of act on the economy.

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Agreed.

I'd go with extreme mental illness.

Losing his job is just an excuse.

It might have triggered this 'episode' for want of a better word, but there had to have been an underlying mental disorder there in the first place to make him capable of this.

Just look at the percentage of people who lose their jobs and don't go OT on their own fucking loved ones. They get on with their lives instead of committing murder.

Yeah I have to agree that this guy had something going on. If it hadn't been the job, it might have been something else. If his wife had cheated on him it might have triggered it. A bad enough arguement. It really could have been anything. It's a shame though that he was so unstable and his family had to pay the price. Even with all the info out there, I think things like depression and other mental illnesses still aren't as recognized as they should be, or given as much weight as they should be. And this is coming from someone who was 1.)depressed for years, 2.)cut for years, and 3.)contemplated suicide so I have kind of been there. I'm just glad I never got bad enough that I was able to come out on top. More people should be so fortunate.

ever notice how it's guys that do this stupid stuff, more than women? I've often wondered what it is in the male psyche that causes that.

scarletpeaches said:

Just look at the percentage of people who lose their jobs and don't go OT on their own fucking loved ones. They get on with their lives instead of committing murder.

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Or maybe they "go postal" at the ex-work place and off some supervisors and co-workers. Complete madness, too, but at least a wee bit comprehensible.

caw

Just last month a couple in quebec killed their two children and themselves after they both lost their jobs. the wife did not die and she's been charged with three counts of murder. so blaming it just on mental illness doesn't work either.

nevada said:

Just last month a couple in quebec killed their two children and themselves after they both lost their jobs. the wife did not die and she's been charged with three counts of murder. so blaming it just on mental illness doesn't work either.

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Huh, what? Bit of a non sequitur there.

Yeah, I blame it on mental illness. The layoff was just the trigger. If he was in his right mind, he'd probably, I dunno, get a new job? Send the kids to stay with a relative for a while? Not shoot them?
Losing a job is not reason enough to shoot your five kids. That's ridiculous. Just because a layoff happened to be the straw that broke more than a few psycho-camels' backs, doesn't mean it's the reason they did it.

scarletpeaches said:

Huh, what? Bit of a non sequitur there.

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I'm just saying that this is not an isolated incident of some crazy killing himself and his kids. it's happening elsewhere for the same reason so you cant just say " the guy's a nutter" and leave it at that. not you personally, you in general.

It's also quite possible that this guy lost his job, at least in part, because he wasn't the normalest person in the shop, ya know? They had to choose people to lay off, and guess what they do with people they're uncomfortable with, for whatever reason? In fact, in a number of workplace violence incidents in recent years, the perp had just been fired because he was difficult, erratic, untrustworthy or just plain scary.

caw

nevada said:

I'm just saying that this is not an isolated incident of some crazy killing himself and his kids. it's happening elsewhere for the same reason so you cant just say " the guy's a nutter" and leave it at that. not you personally, you in general.

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I don't think anyone played the nutter card. We mentioned mental illness, yes, but not as the sole cause.

As a baseline state of mind, it makes going postal more likely, but it's not a guarantee that someone will flip.

There are many mentally ill people who don't kill.

There are many people who lose their jobs who don't kill.

There are many mentally ill people who lose their jobs who don't kill.

Bottom line is - this guy chose to do it. I'm big on personal responsibility and the only thing separating him from the next nutjob-with-no-job (ha! Didja see what I did there?) is choice.

He did it because he wanted to, plain and simple.

blacbird said:

It's also quite possible that this guy lost his job, at least in part, because he wasn't the normalest person in the shop, ya know? They had to choose people to lay off, and guess what they do with people they're uncomfortable with, for whatever reason? In fact, in a number of workplace violence incidents in recent years, the perp had just been fired because he was difficult, erratic, untrustworthy or just plain scary.

caw

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the article says that both he and his wife were both fired from their jobs at the hospital after filing some sort of grievance, according to the note he sent to the tv station. the hospital has confirmed that both were employees and both were fired.

I don't understand it either. Kill yourself? go for it, I dont care. But why kill the children? And he says in his note to the tv station that his wife suggested it. And in the case in Quebec, nobody is saying much, but the wife was charged with murder, which means she actively had a hand in killing her children other than just standing by while the husband did it.

So this is more than just one man with mental illness. That's all I'm trying to say. If I wasn't clear, I apologize to everyone.

He did it because he wanted to, plain and simple.

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This was just on the news here, and the reported stated both parents left notes, not just the husband. So it seems they decided on the action together.

Now my local news has been wrong before, but I'd like to see more information before I point fingers at who did what.

Whatever the rationale, it's faulty. There's no evidence of diminished responsibility here - no indication of limited intellect. At least one - and it looks like both - parents were selfish, short-sighted assholes. Their children deserved much better. May they rest in peace.

The Family Annihilator.

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2008/10/10/murder-suicide-puts-couns_n_133602.html

http://www.guardian.co.uk/lifeandstyle/2002/jul/13/weekend.kevintoolis