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mdin
05-20-2005, 04:32 AM
I'll say it again, *SPOILERS* Do Not Read If You Haven't Seen It Yet.


I saw it earlier this morning, and I enjoyed it very much. I especially liked the General Grievous (sp?) guy. The acting, as usual, was hilariously bad in parts, thanks mostly to the stitled dialogue (especially when DV waves his arms in the air and James Earl Jones shouts "NOOOOOooooooo" at the end). The parts with the dead little kids was very disturbing, and the movie was darker than I thought it was going to be. Still, it was interesting, exciting, and I had a great time. Of the six movies, this was easily the third or second best one behind Empire and New Hope.

Richard
05-20-2005, 11:14 AM
I especially liked the General Grievous (sp?) guy

BOW BEFORE THE ASTHMATIC ROBOT WELSHMAN!

Sheryl Nantus
05-20-2005, 03:26 PM
enjoyed it very much, although I do feel VERY old having seen the original at age 12.

the only thing that did bother me was the amount of VERY young children in the audience for a movie that was advertised as PG-13 and was at least this rating, if not the next one higher. I'm getting prudish in my old age, but I really don't think the little ones needed to see all that violence, including some scenes of children being killed.

but, hey... that's just me.

good flick, slows down when people have to actually TALK instead of fight, but a decent way to spend a few hours.

:banana:

mdin
05-20-2005, 11:21 PM
You know, that's the advertisers fault more than anything. Yes, it was rated pg-13, but if you spend any time watching Nickelodeon or Cartoon Network, you'll see ads for the movie during every. single. commercial. break. Often more than one when you count the Pepsi, Burger King, M&Ms ads ad nauseum.

lizziepants
05-21-2005, 03:00 AM
I loved, loved, loved it.


I was a wee bit confused on how a robot had a coughing/asthmatic condition.

mdin
05-21-2005, 03:14 AM
I loved, loved, loved it.


I was a wee bit confused on how a robot had a coughing/asthmatic condition.

He was a cyborg, like Darth Vader. Part human, part living thing. He had a beating heart and skin underneath his robotic mask.

maestrowork
05-21-2005, 11:24 AM
(SPOILER... SPOILER)

Maybe I was just tired... I was a bit underwhelmed. I felt the beginning was too video game-like. I had some trouble following all the action and special effects. It was way too busy. The middle part was good, especially leading up to the climax, and Anakin's transformation. Oooh, even though I knew what was to come, I still got chills. I think the pivotal scene with Mace Windu was very good. Possibly the strongest scene in the whole film. Count Dooku, on the other, was kind of wasted. He was such a formidable villain in II. Here, he was kind of a wimp. But I understood why.


But that "NOOOOOOOOO" at the end was so laughable, especially with the pull-away shot -- it's so cheesy. HAHA. Did Lucas do that intentionally? After that, it's just this one hurried epilogue to try to tie up all the loose ends leading up to Episode IV -- a little coy, but effective. It works because it's a "prequel" and we know how Episode IV's supposed to start. So we're looking for them... BUT... if we didn't know anything about the series, and started with Episode I... then the ending of this film would seem odd, like someone's trying to stamp out as much info as possible... e.g.

"It's a boy."
"Luke."
"Here comes a girl."
"Leia."

OK... can we let Padme ponder a bit first? Show a little more motherly love and anguish? Kiss the babies, even? They were rushing it at the end, like: Twins? Check. Droids' memory? Check... Organa and Leia? Check... check... check...

Oh, how I miss Han Solo!


Over all, I still think it's better than I and II, and probably VI. But New Hope and Empire Strikes Back are still the best.

Kida Adelyne
05-22-2005, 04:39 AM
Loved it and hated it at the same time, if that's possible.

First scene:wicked. I was so close to the screne that It was like IMax.

Acting: Man! will someone please teach these people how to be dramatic properly. Part of it was that some of those lined were El Cheeso, but Padme's lines at the end were Ok, she just didn't say them properly. I didn't like the guy who played Obi-wan. No expression at all. It was just kind of like: Oh look, I'm about to crash... wait, no Anakin has saved me. That's good because I was rather dreading death.

One thing that really bugged me: Anakin going over to the dark side wasn't convincing enough. Not him being evil, but his reasons, and how he contradicted himself:
Anakin: It's not the Jedi Way! *saves Sideous*
Sideous: Go kill little children
Anakin: OK.

*sigh* Oh well, I loved it. I watched Empire Strikes Back today, and I felt like crying every time I saw Vader, 'cus he used to be Anakin who had curly hair and a cute nose. :P

-Ally

maestrowork
05-22-2005, 06:16 AM
One thing that really bugged me: Anakin going over to the dark side wasn't convincing enough. I know... He killed Dooku even though it wasn't the "Jedi" way. Then when Mace Windu tried to kill Sidious, Anakin yelled, "It's not the Jedi way." I know Lucas was setting up the parallel, but it just wasn't convincing. Then his whole reason was about saving Padme. At the end, he almost killed Padme. That's kind of contradictory. I do understand though -- his "real" reason for going to the dark side is power. But the "Padme" factor is just confusing and not very convincing. He also lacks the complexity I expect from he-who-shall-become-Vader. Like one minute he was good and boyish, the next he was a evil and killing younglings... Too extremes, like he's schizo or something.

But I do like the irony about Padme and the reason Anakin chose the dark side.

But the ending, even though cheesy, is oddly satisfying because we have been waiting for this for 28 years. And Lucas knows it. Seeing the twins and Vader and the Empirer and the Death Star at the end just gives you goosebumps. Lucas milked everything.

aboyd
05-22-2005, 09:55 AM
I mostly liked it. I saw Rotten Tomatoes gave it an overall average score of 84% positive, above parts 1, 2, and 6. But below parts 4 and 5. That seems right to me.

Darth Vader yelling "noooo" was so awful that people actually snickered at the screen, and one guy yelled back, "yeeeess!" I can't believe that Lucas essentially turned DV into a joke with that scene.

I still feel that Anakin Skywalker is nothing more than a petulant little boy. Seeing him wipe out tons of innocent people had me almost believing he was a monster, but then seeing him on the lava shouting "I hate you!" like a whiney brat, suddenly he didn't seem like a dark brooding master of evil. He just needs a spanking from his mommy.

Still, I really liked it. Everyone talks about how well it ties into episode 4. But what I admired was how well it pulled elements from 1 and 2. Throwaway scenes from 1 and 2 start to make more sense in 3. All the political crap seems to be an overindulgence if you watch 1 and 2 alone. But with 3, I got the context of patriotism gone horribly awry, lust for power, giving up liberty for security, etc. I also liked how the emperor even hinted that he possibly created Anakin himself by manipulating midichlorians (sp?). All of this was interesting.

Dooku was a waste. And that really bothered me, as he was incredibly powerful in the previous movie. I couldn't "suspend disbelief" enough to buy it.

The scenes of war were entirely too confusing. I suspect that is much more realistic, but much less satisfying.

The scenes of Jedi being assaulted/betrayed actually stirred up something in me. I thought those scenes were fairly well done -- I felt that something tragic was happening, and it felt like a real loss. That was one of the only parts of the movie with emotional impact for me.

My ratings are as follows: Phantom Menace: D+; Attack of the Clones: C-; Revenge of the Sith: B; A New Hope: B+; Empire Strikes Back: A; Return of the Jedi: C.

-Tony

Marisa Louise
05-22-2005, 10:54 AM
I saw it last night. After a massage.......a very good one at that! I was very much awake though, because the massage therapist knew I got stuck in nealry 2 hours of traffic on a drive that usually takes me 20 minutes, and she knew I'd have nearly the same battle on the way back! Good thing I was awakened by the massage or at some parts of the movie I might have been compelled to cry out of disappointment rather than laugh!

I think that the movie was ALRIGHT. I didn't think much more of it. I really don't think that they developed Anakin/Darth's character enough in the films. Perhaps it was done this way on purpose so that we found it difficult to get attached to either good or evil in him and go along with it easily.... to have us always wondering, but what's the use if we already know what's going to happen?

With everyone else I laughed quite heartily after the "NyyOOOOOOOO" scene. It wasn't even just a "No" it was a "nyo". Even more pitiful!

I don't know if it was just the theater that I was in but there wasn't any gasps from the movie-goers. No breathtaking moments. But there were many moments of laughter-- and not just in the yoda-kicks-a$& scenes!

But I have to admit that I very much enjoyed seeing the gawgeous face of Hayden Christensen. Natalie's acting, on the other hand, seemed a bit passionless and just "get it over with". I read that Hayden had originally been selected for these films because he and Natalie shared a better sexual chemistry than the other candidates for the role had. Not in this film. I just wasn't gettin' the vibe!

Hmmmmmm over all, I did like the movie and I would see it again on video. But I must say that on Wednesday I was thoroughly angered with the star wars fans for blocking off hollywood and highland. All I wanted to do was see my friend's new apartment--- and there was absolutely NO parking space within probably 12 blocks in every which direction of the damn premier! LOL.

"two thumbs: half-way up"

maestrowork
05-22-2005, 11:08 AM
I was thoroughly angered with the star wars fans for blocking off hollywood and highland.



I'd avoid Hollywood and Highland at all cost anytime, anyway. That area is always deadlock-prone.

Marisa Louise
05-22-2005, 11:34 AM
You know, it's rather interesting. I've never had a problem with traffic there until this time! I've almost always had not very difficult traffic to get to Hollywood and had a rather simple time navigating the traffic. But this time... it was probably the fact that it took me two hours to get off on Sunset when it usually only takes me 45 minutes; and then another hour to get from Sunset to Wilcox! Then no parking... so no visitng-- followed by more lovely traffic! LOL. That might have been what frustrated me.

However, it was amusing to see young Jedi knights roaming planet Earth--and the streets of Hollywood, more specifically. Not to mention that we saw Greg Kinnear driving in his car rockin' out to some music (or swearing at the traffic). I couldn't help but laugh!

gina
05-22-2005, 01:23 PM
I saw the movie back on Thursday, and I loved it. Yes, their was some parts that I thought were questionable. I think it should probably have been Rated R, especially with the way Anakin is burned at the end, and the killing of the Jedi Younglings. I wrote a review of it as well in my blog.

Today I spent the day watching the Trilogy. Watching the Trilogy after seeing Episode III is a completely different experience. I actually found a few places where the story just didn't add up.

In Episode IV, when R2-D2 and 3po meet Ben Kenobi for the first time, Ben who we know is Obi-wan, has no memory of the droids. It wasn't his memory that was wiped at the end of Episode III, but 3po's so how could he forget the two droids that he knew belonged to Anakin and Padme for so many years.

Also another Obi-wan thing I noticed. In Episode V, when Obi-wan is talking to Yoda when Luke leaves for the Cloud City, it is almost as if he had forgotten about Leia, when he was there when she was born, and the first to hold her.

Also Hayden as Anakin in Episode III was a good match for Luke in Episode IV. He looked like he could be his father.

This is what happens when nothing is good on television! I spend time analyzing things I probably shouldn't.

Diana Hignutt
05-22-2005, 03:06 PM
We saw it yesterday morning. Maybe, I'm just a sucker, by I loved it. I'm sure it has to do with the fact that I was kid when the first movie came out (I even had my picture taken with Darth Vader at the local mall that same year). I totally bought Anakin's descent into darkness and evil. Palpatine manipulated the young Jedi perfectly. The movie moved me in a way few films have. Once again, probably because of the special palce the first movie had in my heart since I was a youngling. I was able to look past the silliness. For me, it was the cinematic triumpth of science fiction. Really. Now, ask me again after I see it the second time. Maybe, I won't think so.diana

Diana Hignutt
05-22-2005, 03:10 PM
In Episode IV, when R2-D2 and 3po meet Ben Kenobi for the first time, Ben who we know is Obi-wan, has no memory of the droids. It wasn't his memory that was wiped at the end of Episode III, but 3po's so how could he forget the two droids that he knew belonged to Anakin and Padme for so many years.

Also another Obi-wan thing I noticed. In Episode V, when Obi-wan is talking to Yoda when Luke leaves for the Cloud City, it is almost as if he had forgotten about Leia, when he was there when she was born, and the first to hold her.


Yeah, those were the things I noticed too. There was just no way to reconcile them. Well, maybe one...maybe OBi Wan's spent too much time in the desert. Maybe he's getting a tad senile by Episode IV...

diana

Kida Adelyne
05-22-2005, 05:16 PM
Or how Anikan could forget them after he created C3PO, and he took care of his wife.:Huh: The movie is full of inconsistencies.

Lisa Y
05-22-2005, 07:26 PM
I absolute writely LOVED the movie, but like many of you, I thought the "I'll go to the dark side to save Padme" was really lame. I felt like I did while watching "Titanic". "Oh, maybe he won't go to the dark side," I'd think. Maybe it won't happen!! Duh, I'd kick myself in the back of the head, New Hope, Empire, Jedi!!?? Remember those.

Anyway, a few questions nag at me still.

1) Why doesn't Ben recognize the droids when they show up in New Hope. "I don't seem to remember ever owning a droid," was his line, I believe. Was he senile or pretending?

2) Why does Leia claim to remember her mother in Jedi?

3) If they were trying to hide the babies, why on earth (or some other planet) did Luke retain the last name of Skywalker when he was adopted by the Lars family? Why, why, why???

Kida Adelyne
05-22-2005, 07:38 PM
Why does Leia claim to remember her mother in Jedi?

This drove me nuts the moment Anikan said "You'll die in childbirth." The reason for Padme dying is not even very clear "she's lost the will to live". Ok... I don't believe Padme would ever lose the will to live- not with two children.
*sigh* I hate inconsitencies in movies.

ChunkyC
05-22-2005, 08:15 PM
I loved this movie. Lucas has brought it all together. Like someone said above, I'll never look at the original trilogy the same way again.


Too extremes, like he's schizo or something.
Of course he is. He's being influenced by Sidious, who's not just trying to talk Anakin into turning dark, he's subtly using the Force on him to influence his decisions. After all, as revealed, Anakin was created by Sidious to ultimately end up as his apprentice. Anakin is the chosen one, only in reverse of how the Jedi interpreted the prophesy. How could the guy not be schizo?

Why does Leia claim to remember her mother in Jedi?
Leia is remembering Bail Organa's wife, the woman she grew up thinking was her mother. She thought Bail was her dad.

Why doesn't Ben recognize the droids when they show up in New Hope. "I don't seem to remember ever owning a droid," was his line, I believe. Was he senile or pretending?
Pretending, in the sense that it wasn't time to reveal the truth of what happened in the Clone Wars. Heck, he's hiding who Vader really is, so it's no stretch for him to avoid admitting he's seen these two droids before. Besides, where in any of the movies does it say Obi-Wan owned R2 or 3PO? He's telling the truth. He doesn't remember owning them, because he never did.

If they were trying to hide the babies, why on earth (or some other planet) did Luke retain the last name of Skywalker when he was adopted by the Lars family? Why, why, why???
Anakin thinks he killed Padme before the babies were born, and therefore thinks he killed his child as well. He doesn't even know there were two. Tatooine is way out on the outer rim, and Vader would never get out there before the chase of Leia's ship at the beginning of Episode IV.

In Episode V, when Obi-wan is talking to Yoda when Luke leaves for the Cloud City, it is almost as if he had forgotten about Leia
It's been nearly two decades since Luke and Leia were split up, and Obi-Wan spent all that time watching over Luke. I don't think it's an inconsistency. I take Yoda's comment there as a reminder to Obi-Wan of something he just hasn't considered because he spend so many years focused on Luke.

maestrowork
05-22-2005, 09:28 PM
Yeah, those were the things I noticed too. There was just no way to reconcile them. Well, maybe one...maybe OBi Wan's spent too much time in the desert. Maybe he's getting a tad senile by Episode IV...

diana

Yeah, but I think it's because Obi-wan deliberately wanted to be obscure. It's not as if he didn't recognize c3po -- remember, Leia sent R2D2 to deliver the message to Obi-wan. I think when Obi-wan saw c3po, he was just trying to be discreet.

The thing I don't understand, though, is if they want to hide Luke, why Tatooine? That would be one of the first place the Emperor and Darth Vader would look... how on Earth could they hide Luke for 20 years, with the last name Skywalker!!!?? I think since Episode IV opened that way, they HAVE to make it so. But now, seeing Episode III, it just doesn't really make sense.



2) Why does Leia claim to remember her mother in Jedi?


A good one. I can't believe they missed that.

maestrowork
05-22-2005, 09:32 PM
This drove me nuts the moment Anikan said "You'll die in childbirth." The reason for Padme dying is not even very clear "she's lost the will to live". Ok... I don't believe Padme would ever lose the will to live- not with two children.
*sigh* I hate inconsitencies in movies.

Oh yeah, that actually makes Padme less sympathetic. She's giving birth to twins and she's lost the will the live... what kind of a mother is she? I find her character just falls apart in III -- she was strong and resourceful in I and II, but here, she more or less just does the "why me? Poor me" routine, and stands by to watch the Emperor takes over everything without doing anything.

Even with all these plot and character flaws, though, I still like the film very much... so what does it say?

rhymegirl
05-22-2005, 10:03 PM
I just returned from seeing Star Wars. I basically liked it but agree with some of the comments posted here. I thought Natalie Portman's acting was very flat throughout most of it. The best acting in my opinion was delivered by the Chancellor, is that what his title was? Loved the way he delivered his lines, loved the way he could appear to be good, but also nasty.

My favorite "characters" in the whole saga have always been C3PO and R2. They bring much-needed comic relief.

Saw a whole bunch of coming attractions before the flick; some look pretty interesting.

rhymegirl
05-22-2005, 10:18 PM
Oh, the issue about Leia saying she remembered her mother, I just assumed she was talking about her adoptive mother. That's the only mother she could possibly remember. So I guess we are supposed to assume that her adoptive mother dies young or early on in Leia's life.

aboyd
05-23-2005, 12:03 AM
She's giving birth to twins and she's lost the will the live... what kind of a mother is she?You know, while I found the death-in-childbirth scene to be rather flat, I also by that time had been hit over the head with the revelation that Palpatine had been not only manipulating politics, but human life. It was clear to me that Palpatine was deliberately putting the visions of death into Anakin's head, to manipulate him. I mean, Palpatine knew Anakin's problem before he said it, and Anakin stared at him wide-eyed, wondering how he knew so much.

So by the time that death-in-childbirth scene happened, especially with the doctors saying they couldn't explain why she was dying, I just assumed that it was Palpatine... er, Darth Sidious, manipulating human life again. The only flaw in that thinking is that if I were Darth Sidious, I would be sure to kill the progengy of the most powerful Jedi ever, too. My only guess would be that, perhaps in arrogance, he found the children to be irrelevant.

In any case, I'm sure we'll get hit over the head with the answers by the TV show that comes out in 2006. It's a 1 year series that is supposed to explain what happens between episode 3 and 4.

-Tony

maestrowork
05-23-2005, 12:12 AM
Oooh, are we going to see a 10yo Han Solo running around?

I have to watch 4, 5, and 6 again. Now I think about, Leia never did come out and say "my birth mother" so she could very well be talking about Bail's wife. But that's just misleading now...

As for the death-by-child-birth thing... I still am not convinced. I know Sidious orchestrated everything, created the anti-Christ that is Vader, the false prophecy, the rise of the Empire and all. But clearly he knows about the twins (he always know -- just watch 5 and 6 again)... Perhaps he figures the children will grow up just like their fathers, and he could control them and make his POWER even more potent. I mean, he did lure Luke to the dark side...

rhymegirl
05-23-2005, 02:36 AM
That's right, Vader and the other dude tried to make Luke turn to the dark side.

I agree with what someone said about the birth scene. One, two, three. Baby number one. Here's Luke. One, two three, hello Leia. Pretty fast birth, too. Wish it was really that easy!

ChunkyC
05-23-2005, 04:29 AM
You know, while I found the death-in-childbirth scene to be rather flat, I also by that time had been hit over the head with the revelation that Palpatine had been not only manipulating politics, but human life. It was clear to me that Palpatine was deliberately putting the visions of death into Anakin's head, to manipulate him. I mean, Palpatine knew Anakin's problem before he said it, and Anakin stared at him wide-eyed, wondering how he knew so much.

So by the time that death-in-childbirth scene happened, especially with the doctors saying they couldn't explain why she was dying, I just assumed that it was Palpatine... er, Darth Sidious, manipulating human life again. The only flaw in that thinking is that if I were Darth Sidious, I would be sure to kill the progengy of the most powerful Jedi ever, too. My only guess would be that, perhaps in arrogance, he found the children to be irrelevant.

In any case, I'm sure we'll get hit over the head with the answers by the TV show that comes out in 2006. It's a 1 year series that is supposed to explain what happens between episode 3 and 4.

-Tony
Good points about Palpatine manipulating life. What you refer to here ties in with what I think about other seeming inconsistencies. I also need to add something to what I said earlier about Luke being sent to Tatooine.

When they make the decision to send Luke to Tatooine, as far as Yoda and Obi-Wan know, Anakin is dead, burned to death by the banks of that river of lava. I'd have to see the movie again to be sure, but I don't think at that point anyone other than Anakin and the Emperor has yet heard the name Darth Vader. It would only be at some point in the future that others would come to hear that name and then discover who Vader is. Remember, both Yoda and Obi-Wan go into seclusion never knowing that Anakin still lives. Put that with Anakin's belief that he killed Padme and his unborn child, and you have a plausible reason why Vader would not be searching for a child he believes was never born, and why Yoda and Obi-Wan never believed there was a pressing need to hide them. It was only the pure luck of the remote location of Tatooine that for many years kept Vader from discovering that he had a living child.

As for the Emperor and why wouldn't he do anything about Luke and Leia: look how he created Anakin and groomed him to supplant Dooko. Why wouldn't his long term plans include bringing Vader's son over to the dark side at the appropriate time to supplant Vader (which is just what happens). I put it to you that the Emperor knows how Padme really died, knows she had children, but deliberately kept this information from Vader. I too think the big "Nooooo!" was a bit corny, but that actual moment, where the Emperor takes away the one thing Anakin thought embracing the Dark Side would give him, is what brings about his final agonizing transformation into Darth Vader. Hence the release of dark power that crushed the medical droids and equipment all around him. I found that moment particularly emotional.

NicoleJLeBoeuf
05-23-2005, 05:02 AM
Good moments:

James Earl Jones/Vader: "Is Padme OK?" Ouch. (Even if it was immediately ruined by cheesy, tantrumy "Noooooo!")

Palpatine tossing Senate chairs at Yoda. Me: "OMG, he's totally destroying the Senate! Symbolically! Look, symbolism that doesn't totally suck!"

Obi-Wan's last speech to Anakin. Nearly made me cry. I felt a lot more for Obi-Wan's tragedy of losing The Chosen One, than I did for the tragedy of Anakin's crossing over to the dark side. That had something to do with Anakin's character being a complete ham-fisted disaster. Damn you, Lucas!

Inconsistencies:

If General Grevious only has a heart left, and no lungs, why does he cough? (Yes, I know what moment in Gendi's lovely Attack of the Clones Cartoon Network short originated that cough. I don't buy it.) Conversely, if he coughs, he must have lungs and need to breathe, so why is his escape strategem to bust open the spacecraft hull and leap out into the void?

Bonus points: Why would his heart blow up in flames after getting shot by a laser gun, when most laser gun wounds merely pierce and cauterize? (But I liked Obi-Wan's line immediately after: "So uncivilized." *snrk*)

I could, if feeling charitable, grant that Padme lost the will to live. I could grant that she would see no reason or obligation to continue after the babies were safely delivered. I could not, however, see her feeling the need to postpone her death long enough to name the babies. Would have worked fine if Luke and Leia got named by their adoptive families.

Amusements:

First appearance of Grievous: "Look! A skeksie!" (Think Dark Crystal.)

Last sight of Anakin before he caught fire: "And here, Kenobi should yell, 'Damn you, Mr. Frodo, why'd you have to put on that evil ring?' "

Those damn bobble-headed droids: "OMG, it's those pencil-headed buffoons from Disney's Alice in Wonderland!"

Finally, a link. Scalzi is da bomb biggety. (http://www.scalzi.com/whatever/003546.html)

mdin
05-23-2005, 07:07 AM
Leia is remembering Bail Organa's wife, the woman she grew up thinking was her mother. She thought Bail was her dad.


That's what I thought too, but I just watched ROTJ, and Luke asks, "Do you remember your mother, your real mother?" or something like that. So it is implied she knows she was adopted.

Marisa Louise
05-23-2005, 08:07 AM
Maybe they'll use this as an excuse to make new ones.

mdin
05-23-2005, 10:53 AM
Maybe they'll use this as an excuse to make new ones.

Maybe they'll deal with it during the Star Wars television show.

Speaking of which, I just saw this comic on the web from a concerned fan, and I think it does a good job of putting into imagery our worst nightmares regarding the upcoming series:



http://img.penny-arcade.com/2005/20050427l.jpg

ChunkyC
05-23-2005, 07:35 PM
Nav, that cartoon is a riot!


That's what I thought too, but I just watched ROTJ, and Luke asks, "Do you remember your mother, your real mother?" or something like that. So it is implied she knows she was adopted.
Oh-HO! Good catch! Maybe all these niggling little details are designed to make us run out and buy/rent every Star Wars DVD so we can examine them in minute detail. It's a nefarious plot, I tell you!

Heck, me and the missus have decided to go see EPIII again, so it must be working.

ChunkyC
05-24-2005, 09:37 PM
That's what I thought too, but I just watched ROTJ, and Luke asks, "Do you remember your mother, your real mother?" or something like that. So it is implied she knows she was adopted.
It just occurred to me that there is no reason why the Organa's would not have told Leia something about her real mother, but not who she actually was.

mdin
05-24-2005, 11:57 PM
Star Wars meets Darwinism:

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/england/beds/bucks/herts/4575291.stm

maestrowork
05-25-2005, 12:09 AM
but I don't think at that point anyone other than Anakin and the Emperor has yet heard the name Darth Vader. It would only be at some point in the future that others would come to hear that name and then discover who Vader is.

Actually they have, when they watch the security recording at the Jedi Temple. That's how they know Darth Sidious has taken Anakin as his apprentice, and called him Vader.

And at the end, they must have sensed that Anakin/Darth Vader is not dead yet. And they will soon learn about Vader and his reign of terror... so the only reasons I could think that they has kept Luke on Tatooine with the last name Skywalker is that it's too far out in the outer rim, and also Ben/Obi-Wan is looking over him... but still, it seems careless.

ChunkyC
05-25-2005, 12:09 AM
(re: Nav's link above) You never want to see anyone get hurt, but talk about preventable injuries....

ChunkyC
05-25-2005, 12:17 AM
Actually they have, when they watch the security recording at the Jedi Temple. That's how they know Darth Sidious has taken Anakin as his apprentice, and called him Vader.

And at the end, they must have sensed that Anakin/Darth Vader is not dead yet. And they will soon learn about Vader and his reign of terror... so the only reasons I could think that they has kept Luke on Tatooine with the last name Skywalker is that it's too far out in the outer rim, and also Ben/Obi-Wan is looking over him... but still, it seems careless.
Mrs. Chunky and I are going again on Sunday, I'll have to watch for that scene of the security recording. I thought they only saw that Anakin was there leading the attack on the temple, I don't remember them hearing the name Vader spoken. I could easily have missed it.

As for Anakin being dead or alive, I think it is plausible that with the annihilation of the Jedi and everything Obi-Wan and Yoda have just gone through, that they would be licking their wounds and not be quite so in tune with the force at that time that they would realize Anakin had been rescued by the Emperor. I know, it's a bit of a stretch, but not impossible to conceive that their focus would be elsewhere.

ChunkyC
05-25-2005, 03:08 AM
I ran into an old friend today....

trumancoyote
05-25-2005, 03:15 AM
Is that yours?! :Jaw:

ChunkyC
05-25-2005, 03:19 AM
Painstakingly put together by a good friend of mine. Took him nearly as long as it took Lucas to film Revenge of the Sith. The lights aren't hooked up yet, but he looks pretty darn cool, donchathink?

mdin
05-25-2005, 03:20 AM
lol. That's awesome!

trumancoyote
05-25-2005, 03:24 AM
That's the coolest thing ever!

Did he fabricate the pieces on his own, or is it some sort of kit?

ChunkyC
05-25-2005, 03:33 AM
It's all custom made, though he had other people with the proper tools make some of the parts. He's done most of the detailing and all the assembly. As I mentioned, there's still the lights to do, and he's trying to decide how to motorize it. But he called today to tell me he had finished assembling it and I had to go see. (Don't tell the boss that's where I was for half an hour!)

trumancoyote
05-25-2005, 03:42 AM
That's so impressive. Really.

Your friend is very talented, Chunksta'.

I hope that, once he finishes Artoo, he begins work on C-3PO.

ChunkyC
05-25-2005, 03:54 AM
Ya never know. His wife thought his Jango Fett costume was a bit over the top, now he's done R2. I wouldn't be surprised if I cruised by his place some day and saw a full sized Millennium Falcon in his driveway.

maestrowork
05-25-2005, 05:07 AM
I'd be interested in a Yoda, please.

mdin
05-25-2005, 07:51 AM
I want that Jedi girl with the two tumors on her head.

allion
05-25-2005, 07:59 PM
First off, Chunky, I am so jealous!! A real R2 unit. Very cool.

Second, I haven't seen the movie yet (so I probably shouldn't be in this thread, but I couldn't resist the pull of the dark side - see, it's easy to go over there!). We tried to go on Monday, which was a holiday here, but it was too busy, and I don't want to sit in the midst of a horde of kids with plastic lightsabres.

I'll go during the week to a matinee if I can swing the time off.

As my husband said, "You know how it's going to end up and what happens, so do you have to go to the movie?"

Well, yeah, I know how it turns out. I also knew how LOTR ended, and I HAD to see that too.

And I will probably cry like a baby when it's over. I've been in the SW universe since I was 9. I always link it to the death of my grandmother the year before and how it helped pull me out of the darkness I was in. Plus, Han and Luke were cuties.

Gak, I am too old to be a fan, aren't I? Nah!

Side note - if you watch EP4, notice the slight hesitation Alec Guiness gives when Luke asks "How did my father die?" I have no idea if it was intentional, but to me (now) it gives the appearance that Obi-Wan is thinking real hard about how to phrase his story to give part of the truth to Luke but not all of it. Kind of like, "Oh crap, now I get asked this and what do I tell him??"

Just the geek in me coming out.

Karen

ChunkyC
05-25-2005, 08:19 PM
Hey, Karen, nice to see you again!

Don't worry about being too old to be a Star Wars fan. Heck, I'm a grandpa who's turning fifty this fall and I'm nuts about it. I've seen every movie at least three times in the theatre including the re-release of the original trilogy, I have a membership at StarWars.com, around twenty SW novels, a book detailing the SW universe, a lightsabre and a homemade Jedi cloak, every version of the movies released on VHS and DVD here in Canada, and a dubbed-to-DVD laserdisk widescreen edition of Ep.IV....

Goodness gracious me, I need help. http://www.absolutewrite.com/forums/images/smilies/smile.gif

I think the only reason Mrs. Chunky married me is because she is every bit as crazy about SW as I am. She saw Ep.IV over twenty times in the theatre when it was originally released.

maestrowork
05-25-2005, 08:35 PM
Hi, my name is Chunky, and I am a Star Wars-aholic.

Hi, Chunky! Here, have a lightsaber soda and a midichlorian donut.

maestrowork
05-25-2005, 08:48 PM
On a serious note, let's have some writing-related discussions...

What makes Star Wars such as huge success? Despite all the cheese and ham, why are people so crazy about it, and why are the original such classics? People always mention the very first shot of NEW HOPE. But that shot itself did not a franchise made. Star Wars was originally a B-movie, and nobody even knew about it. Only about 30 or so theaters showed it at first. It just exploded after it was released, by mere word of mouth.

So what happened? When you think hard about it, the STAR WARS movies are not really that "great" in the conventional sense (such as cheesy dialogue, relatively bad acting, etc.)

What made NEW HOPE work? I know the franchise survived because the EMPIRE STRIKES BACK was even better... what is it that make you a fan boy/girl?

ChunkyC
05-25-2005, 09:45 PM
Good questions, Ray.

I'll have to think about it some more, but one reason I believe is the somewhat cardboard-cutout characters. After a decade or so of flawed heroes in the movies, it was great to escape to a universe where the bad guy was so obviously the bad guy, right down to the black outfit. We know it's not so cut and dried now, but then, Darth Vader was evil personified. When he came on screen, the theatre erupted in boos and hisses. It was great!

Then we meet Luke, who is every kid's hero fantasy come true: the farmboy who leaves home and saves the galaxy from that seemingly omnipotent evildoer Vader. It doesn't get any more timeless than that. Throw in the wisecracking sidekick Han Solo, the mysticism of Obi-Wan and the Force, and state of the art special effects for the time, and whammo, you have a blockbuster to end all blockbusters.

maestrowork
05-25-2005, 10:41 PM
I think the timeless good vs. evil plot, where the good guys are GOOD and the bad guys are SO BAD... is definitely part of it, especially after the really confusing and frustrating times during the 60s and 70s. I've always loved "complex" characters, but at the same time, I agree, the cardboard-cutout characters in SW -- every bit the hero's journal archetypes -- really "resonated" (oh, that word!) with the audience. It's the right movie at the right time.

Still, after all these years, how did it stay fresh and timeless?

Liam Jackson
05-25-2005, 10:52 PM
Still, after all these years, how did it stay fresh and timeless?Today 12:45 PM

You nailed it midway through your post, Ray. Tireless theme of **"mostly" good against absolute evil. (**Even Hans Solo, Calrissian and the Wookie had roguish streaks.)

Troubled protags do have great appeal, but nothing has ever really replaced the
"hero archtype vs. the antag archtype" conflict.

ChunkyC
05-26-2005, 02:51 AM
Yeah, I think that's it. There's something appealing about the purity of Luke's quest. Contrast the Star Wars story with a modern movie like triple-X. I despise movies like that. "Hey, we can't keep the world safe for democracy unless we pander to the blood-lust of a criminal maniac." Blech.

And they wonder why kids are so violent when Hollywood keeps throwing "heroes" like that on the screen.


Chunky! Here, have a lightsaber soda and a midichlorian donut.
Would that be the Anakin's Diet? http://www.absolutewrite.com/forums/images/smilies/EmoteROFL.gif

aboyd
05-26-2005, 03:36 AM
Tireless theme of **"mostly" good against absolute evil. (**Even Hans Solo, Calrissian and the Wookie had roguish streaks.)Actually, I thought Han Solo was the bad guy at first. That's what I loved. I was age 6 or 7 when I saw Star Wars in the theater, and even at that age, I understood that Han was a bad element. The pivotal moment was seeing the Millenium Falcon swoop in to save the day. Anyone remember that? I was like, "Holy crap, Han Solo has a conscience!"

My kids don't get that now. If you didn't know this, in the revised version, Lucas re-made Han Solo to be the good guy from the start (carefully editing scenes to make him appear better than the original portrayed). There is no change of heart, because his heart is in the right place from his first scene onward.

However, my kids do get something interesting as a tradeoff -- they get Darth Vader with a backstory that causes some minor empathy. I think Lucas wanted to re-make Vader into a conflicted character who simply put national patriotism above ethical mores. And I get that a little bit. However, I mostly just felt that this was an incredibly arrogant kid who got stuck in a bad situation and made it worse. It still generates some sympathy, but that's not what Lucas hoped, I think.

Anyway, to answer the question, I think the draw for me is light saber battles, pseudo-religious talk of balance and the force, special effects, the rage of high-stakes conflict, and the transformation of normal people into heros or villians. The writing, the dialogue, the acting, all of that is terrible. I love Star Wars in spite of that.

I get the same thing from the Matrix (the first movie -- the second & third installments defeated me in the same way that these crappy Star Wars prequels have, although SW 3 is a lot better).

Also, Battlestar Galactica (the new one) is in my opinion an extremely well-written example of the genre. My wife and I have sat riveted as certain scenes played out, cried as certain conflicts came to a head, and cheered as good triumphed. It is a story for grownups, and instills in me the same sense of fascination that washed over me as a kid watching Star Wars for the first time.

-Tony

oswann
05-26-2005, 10:45 AM
On a serious note, let's have some writing-related discussions...

What makes Star Wars such as huge success? Despite all the cheese and ham, why are people so crazy about it, and why are the original such classics? People always mention the very first shot of NEW HOPE. But that shot itself did not a franchise made. Star Wars was originally a B-movie, and nobody even knew about it. Only about 30 or so theaters showed it at first. It just exploded after it was released, by mere word of mouth.

So what happened? When you think hard about it, the STAR WARS movies are not really that "great" in the conventional sense (such as cheesy dialogue, relatively bad acting, etc.)

What made NEW HOPE work? I know the franchise survived because the EMPIRE STRIKES BACK was even better... what is it that make you a fan boy/girl?


I've already said that I dislike Star Wars, and I can't for the life of me find answers to the questions Ray. It's kitch, cheesy, badly acted, plot as thin as paper, laughable dialogue etc. etc.

Even the good vs. evil is spaghetti western, right down to the white and black hats.

The only thing I think, is the suspension of disbelief in other-worldly stuff continues to take people out of their everyday lives. I prefer to have more reference points anchored in real life. They may be just as unrealistic but it's a question of taste.



Os.

maestrowork
05-26-2005, 05:14 PM
Also, Battlestar Galactica (the new one) is in my opinion an extremely well-written example of the genre. My wife and I have sat riveted as certain scenes played out, cried as certain conflicts came to a head, and cheered as good triumphed. It is a story for grownups, and instills in me the same sense of fascination that washed over me as a kid watching Star Wars for the first time.

Oh yeah, definitely. I resisted watching it because I'd been so disappointed by anything on sci-fi channel. But BG is so well-written (kudos to the writers!) and executed. Riveting is the word. It kept me on the edge of my seat. I just wish the Star Trek team had hired the same writers!

ChunkyC
05-26-2005, 08:34 PM
Huge thumbs up for the new Battlestar Galactica from me too. It's great to see such good sci-fi writing for a change. These guys and gals know that good stories are about people, no matter what kind of hardware they are surrounded by.

allion
05-26-2005, 09:03 PM
ChunkyC, I won't mention the cookie tin I have stuffed full of SW action figures from 1977, or my prized possession of the teaser poster of ROTJ (the one with the hands holding the lightsabre upright). I just won't do it... :)

It's the Power of Myth. That's all. Lucas took archetypes that ring bells in our primeval memories, and cooked it up together so that good meant something and evil meant something quite different. I think it's become our modern-day mythology, FWIW.

Lucas gave us a story of hope, that things could be better. That is why the new Battlestar Galactica is so good. Epic quest. Developed characters. It rings a bell as well. This is where Star Trek fell off the rails. (Stop recycling plots and maybe it could be better...)

But Han did shoot first. I have the VHS to prove it.

Karen

pepperlandgirl
05-26-2005, 09:17 PM
I'm baffled by its huge, continued popularity. Lucus is worse than a hack writer. The movies are worse than cliches. They're insults to anybody with intelligence, especilly Revenge of the Sith. To me, it'll forever be the great mystery of the Universe.

ChunkyC
05-26-2005, 09:42 PM
There's tons of depth there if you can get past the flaws, but primarily, they're so much dang FUN!

maestrowork
05-26-2005, 11:33 PM
I'm baffled by its huge, continued popularity. Lucus is worse than a hack writer. The movies are worse than cliches. They're insults to anybody with intelligence, especilly Revenge of the Sith. To me, it'll forever be the great mystery of the Universe.

Yes and no. I agree the first two prequels pretty much sucked, writing-wise. Study Empire Strikes Back and you'd understand what a master storyteller/plotter Lucas was/is. Everyone who writes stories should study the construct and plotting of ESB.

ChunkyC
05-27-2005, 01:24 AM
We must also keep in mind that Lucas has stated he wrote Star Wars for a pre-teen audience. I believe I heard him say in an interview once that the target audience member he was aiming at was an eleven year old boy. So even though he has tried to add enough to keep older people interested as he has penned the subsequent movies, he still had that kid in mind as he wrote.

PS -- and before Ray says it: yes, I was 21 when I first saw it and fell in love with it. Back then I was immature. Now I'm 'youthful.' http://www.absolutewrite.com/forums/images/smilies/biggrin.gif

aboyd
05-27-2005, 09:28 AM
But BG is so well-written (kudos to the writers!) and executed. Riveting is the word. It kept me on the edge of my seat. I just wish the Star Trek team had hired the same writers!Is this the definition of irony? That you're wishing for what exists?

The lead writer of Battlestar Galactica is a writer who fled Star Trek, because he wasn't allowed the freedom to create what he wanted there.

-Tony

maestrowork
05-27-2005, 06:12 PM
Is this the definition of irony? That you're wishing for what exists?

The lead writer of Battlestar Galactica is a writer who fled Star Trek, because he wasn't allowed the freedom to create what he wanted there.

-Tony

I think that speaks of the tragic reality of the Star Trek franchise: the Enterprise is SO HUGE and heavy that no one dares to (or is allowed to) move it where "no man has gone before." Isn't that the irony?

Kevin Yarbrough
05-27-2005, 06:54 PM
I think the appeal of SW is that when we all seen the originals it was a shock. Nothing had ever been done like that before. The special effects were brand new and that is what got the attention of kids. I mean, who couldn't love the light sabers? The Falcon? The Death Star?

It was a culture shock. Kids loved it. It stayed with us as we grew up. The adults love it for this reason, the kids love it now because we forced them to watch the original movies. Plus, again, the light sabers are awesome.

I think the main reason it became huge was not only the special effects but because of Luke. It showed that no matter how normal you are you can still make a difference and have fun while you do it. Plus, mosty kids wanted to be Han Solo. I know I did.

Kevin Yarbrough
05-27-2005, 06:57 PM
BG is a great series, a lot better than the original (yes I have seen the original). The writing is great, the acting top notch.

Don't forget Stargate and Atlantis. They are both great series and deserve some equal air time here.

allion
05-27-2005, 09:52 PM
/hijack

My favourite Stargate episode is the one where they spoof their own show. The writer was under alien control and wrote a TV show that bore an amazing resemblance to the characters and situations in Stargate. I appreciate writing that can make fun of itself.

/hijack off

Karen

ChunkyC
05-27-2005, 10:56 PM
I think the main reason it became huge was not only the special effects but because of Luke. It showed that no matter how normal you are you can still make a difference and have fun while you do it.
That's the same kind of appeal that hooked me on books like the Hardy Boys and the Tom Swift series when I was a pre-teen. Tom Swift and his Triphibian Atomicar (http://www.amazon.ca/exec/obidos/ASIN/0884114597/qid=1117219845/sr=1-2/ref=sr_1_0_2/702-3802175-9608006) rocked my socks off when I first read it.

maestrowork
05-28-2005, 02:07 AM
I think the main reason it became huge was not only the special effects but because of Luke. It showed that no matter how normal you are you can still make a difference and have fun while you do it.

But you could say the same about all kinds of "small town boy becomes hero" stories.

I think the special effects were part of it -- simply, no one had done anything like that before. And the premise -- Lucas was smart to set it to "a galaxy far, far away, a long time ago" -- and the mix of mythology, western, sci-fi, etc. And also the playfulness of the original. ESB was dark, but it was still playful, with the characters Yoda, Han, Chewbacca...

That's part of what I miss in the prequels: the humor and playfulness. Yoda becomes a wise sage... but he wasn't playful and cute and funny... he's still popular, but he loses his some of his humor... not to mention the absence of someone like Solo.

To me, the mythology is a HUGE draw, especially set against sci-fi. I think Lucas had the audacity to mix genres, and the result was simply mind-blowing. Combined with the timeless tale of good vs. evil and small town boy-turned hero, he had a winning combination.

GailKavanagh
05-28-2005, 03:41 AM
Gak, I am too old to be a fan, aren't I? Nah!

Karen

Nah! I'm nearly 60 and I love it as much as my kids and grandkids, couldn't wait to see Revenge of the Sith.
Hayden Christiansen was the biggest stumbling block for me - if he had been a better actor, I don't think there would have been a dry eye in the house. The last fight with Obi Wan, with Anakin burned and mutilated, and Obi Wan furious with him and himself, for the way things had turned out - marvellous. Lucas casted perfectly with Obi Wan, if not with Anakin - Ewan McGegor has almost become a clone of Alec Guinness.
The excitement, the pace, the odd one liners, the sheer exhilaration of it, and over all that, the sadness of the story - bad as Christiansen was, even he could not detract from the overall impact for me.
On the down side, I think Lucas just used way too much CGI (who's been watching Final Fantasy, then?) when he could have been concentrating on the story, which was big enough to carry itself. Less glitz, better script, mo'better lead actor - in spite of that, I loved it, I'll watch it again, I'll watch them all again. Lucas has created a modern myth, a marvellous achievement, and no one can take that away.

Gail

ChunkyC
05-29-2005, 02:08 AM
ChunkyC, I won't mention the cookie tin I have stuffed full of SW action figures from 1977, or my prized possession of the teaser poster of ROTJ (the one with the hands holding the lightsabre upright). I just won't do it... :)
http://bestsmileys.com/love1/23.gif

Okay, here's one for the real SW geeks: in EP III, did anybody spot the Millennium Falcon coming in for a landing?

aboyd
05-29-2005, 06:15 AM
Are you serious? In what scene?

-T

maestrowork
05-29-2005, 06:59 AM
http://bestsmileys.com/love1/23.gif

Okay, here's one for the real SW geeks: in EP III, did anybody spot the Millennium Falcon coming in for a landing?

Yes. In the scene when Anakin and Obi-Wan return to the Senate with Palpatine. It's a extreme wide shot, but you can see it in the lower right corner...

The Millennium Falcon was also featured in Attack of the Clones.

Did anyone notice the sets changed to the controls and displays and "technologies" of the original trilogy at the end of EPIII? Throughout the movie, it was really "high tech" but at the end, it turned "low tech" (so to speak) matching the original series...

ChunkyC
05-31-2005, 08:39 PM
Ray's got it. After they crash the half-a-ship, they are in a 'bus' type transport we see from overhead as they come in for a landing at the Senate. As the bus settles down, at the lower right you can see the Falcon come into view approaching the same landing platform, just before the end of the shot.

I was hoping they'd talk Harrison Ford into doing a cameo. I thought it would be really funny if he and a twelve or thirteen year old kid would walk by Obi-Wan and Anakin as they're talking, and the kid says "Dad, look -- a Jedi." To which Ford would say, "Come along, Han," or some such.

Lucas never answered my e-mail. http://www.absolutewrite.com/forums/images/smilies/biggrin.gif

DJP
05-31-2005, 10:57 PM
My hubby got me to appreciate SW, he's a big collector. One thing he asked me to do before we went to the movie was read the book. It was way better than the movie, and I understood so much more while I watched. It was Revenge of the Sith written by Matthew Stover (based on the story and screenplay by Lucas). Highly recommended! But then again, I've always liked books better than movies.

Birol
06-01-2005, 07:23 AM
I love the three original, unedited, unenhanced Star Wars movies.

Episode III was easily one of the worst movies I have seen.

A group of friends I have known since my college days came to visit over Memorial Day weekend. We made a pact to wait and see Episode III together. The best part of the whole movie was afterwards, when we stood outside the theatre in front of the movie posters pantomiming the extreme levels of our disappointment. As one of the members prepared to take a picture a couple walked past and laughed in quite the understanding and sympathetic fashion. The wife asked if the friend with the camera would like to be in the shot, too. When we said yes, her husband took the pic for us.

I'm pictured with my back to the camera because I was pounding my head against the wall.

Kida Adelyne
06-03-2005, 01:46 AM
The millenium Falcon in the new episodes? 0.o
Well, I guess it's technically old enough to be in two and three, but really. *sigh* It was bad enough having Chewy make an appearance. People who were around when the Jedi's were a large force would not suddenly come to the conclusion that The force is hokey.

On another note- I've sunk into another level of fandom: I suffered through a meal at Burger King to get a starwars toy. :P