Ending a sentence with a preposition

Well, I wouldn't do it. I like the more formal, especially in a query.

No, it's not a grammatical rule, in fact; it's a matter of style and usage.

It's sort of like the "split infinitive" thing--if it sounds awkward, don't do it.

"Which" is an ugly word which is often better avoided.

Kathleen,

Your sister is obviously of the school advocating that English should model itself on Latin. The problem is Latin is a dead language, while English still grows.

I don't believe ending a sentence in a preposition or rewording the proposition internally is either formal or informal; it's a writing style.

I still believe much of the hoopla is due to sentences ending with unnecessary prepositions, such as

He continued on.
Where are they going to?
She smiled as she climbed up.
Where is it at?
He accomplished what few had before.

Each of the above could very well drop its ending proposition, though they do have their own style defenders.

Warning: This question usually evokes quotes from Winston Churchill and Gene Rodenberry.

Depends on the formality of what you're writing and who you're writing it for. Your sister's version is good for formal reports, essays etc. Your version is absolutely fine if it's fiction or a less formal article or report. It's up to you. Neither is wrong.

And just to please Chase, here's my version of one of them: This is something up with which I will not put.

Anna Magdalena said:

And just to please Chase, here's my version of one of them: This is something up with which I will not put.

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As Anna says, she knows what she's talking about . . . er . . . of which she speaks.

You can get in worse trouble ending a sentence with a proposition.

caw

In one of my edit passes, I search for common prepositions followed by a period (up. at. to. etc.) I look at the sentence and determine if it should be re-written. some get changed, some don't. I use this site for a list of common prepostions.

I'm reading Grammar Girl's Quick & Dirty Tips, by Mignon Fogarty, and she gives a good tip: if you can drop the preposition and the sentence still makes sense, you shouldn't end the sentence with it. For example:

Are you going with?

With is not needed, so rewrite to say:

Are you going?


In the sentence you gave, I think it IS needed, however, as others stated, it's best to stay formal in query letters and I would rewrite it for this situation. I'd also avoid "which" (personal preference), so I suggest completely rewriting that sentence.

Good luck.

Matera the Mad said:

"Which" is an ugly word which is often better avoided.

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It is???? I use 'which' the whole time.

melaniehoo said:

I'm reading Grammar Girl's Quick & Dirty Tips, by Mignon Fogarty, and she gives a good tip: if you can drop the preposition and the sentence still makes sense, you shouldn't end the sentence with it. For example:

Are you going with?

With is not needed, so rewrite to say:

Are you going?


In the sentence you gave, I think it IS needed, however, as others stated, it's best to stay formal in query letters and I would rewrite it for this situation. I'd also avoid "which" (personal preference), so I suggest completely rewriting that sentence.

Good luck.

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In Minnesota, "Are you going with?" means "Are you going with him (or her)?" If I were writing in Minnesota dialect, I'd use it. Otherwise...nah.

It was Winston Churchill, I believe, who said, "This is the kind of English up with which I will not put."

Post #5:

Chase said:

Warning: This question usually evokes quotes from Winston Churchill and Gene Rodenberry.

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Post #13 (Second reference to Winnie the PM):

Teriann said:

It was Winston Churchill, I believe, who said, "This is the kind of English up with which I will not put."

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Was I right, or was I right?

StephanieFox said:

In Minnesota, "Are you going with?" means "Are you going with him (or her)?" If I were writing in Minnesota dialect, I'd use it. Otherwise...nah.

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I'm from Michigan and that's how I say it. I also get yelled at for it, which is why I used it as an example.

In Minnesota, "Are you going with?" means "Are you going with him (or her)?" If I were writing in Minnesota dialect, I'd use it. Otherwise...nah.

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This is not standard English. I have never even heard it. It would be dialect for sure, probably influenced by German immigrants.

Compare German: "Gehen Sie mit?" Literally: "Are you going with?" which means "Are you going along?"

Chase said:

Your sister is obviously of the school advocating that English should model itself on Latin.

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True this is not! Teachers rules without knowing their origin learn.

blacbird said:

You can get in worse trouble ending a sentence with a proposition.

caw

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What about if you do both?
"You are the one I want to have babies with."

ComicBent said:

This is not standard English. I have never even heard it. It would be dialect for sure, probably influenced by German immigrants.

Compare German: "Gehen Sie mit?" Literally: "Are you going with?" which means "Are you going along?"

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I have heard "Are you coming with?" several times just this week in New Jersey and Arizona. It's becoming a pretty common phrase among the young.

A Scottishism, for those who wish to learn Jockinese:

"D'y'wanna come with?" is popularly used for, "Would you care to accompany me to the place to which I am presently going?"

As a side-note, wouldn't it be "Are you coming with...?" On that I'm probably wrong.

Okay. Back to original question. It's okay to end with a preposition, just as it's okay to split infinitives. I say so.

It is never okay to brazenly split an infinitive.

But I love splitting infinitives! I sharpen the pencil point....

(I'm trying to revise this: It is not okay to split an infinitive brazenly. But it is okay to brazenly split an infinitive. Forget it. I need my schnapps. )

Spot the joke! There was one there, honest! Please don't jump on me.

Root pity in thy heart, that when it grows,
Thy pity may deserve to pitied be.