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scarletpeaches
12-29-2008, 10:21 PM
I hope it's okay to post this as I'll be asking some intimate questions here.

Next month...well, that's in only three days!...I'll be making an attempt to add to a half-baked 60k WIP I have on my hard drive for JaNoWriMo.

A number of my characters do coke; I, however, never have, although I'll admit to some curiosity about it. So much for 'write what you know'.

They use it recreationally; it's kind of a background thing. Not the main aspect of their personalities. If it's important, they're female, in their mid-twenties and treat coke like something they do here and there, just for fun. One gets involved with a younger man who's never done coke before, which leads to a couple of questions:

Can anyone enlighten me as to what the rush feels like if it's your first time, and how this would vary if you're an experienced user? How long it takes to hit, the sensations, etc?

Also - how would cocaine affect a young man's ability to achieve and maintain an erection? How long would he...*ahem*...be able to go on for, and would he still be able to have an orgasm?

Funny...most of the time I can derail with the best of 'em and make rude jokes, but when it comes down to asking serious questions I get a bit iffy about it. Anyway. If anyone would prefer to answer privately, feel free to PM me. Understandable, given that the chapters I'm researching involve both intimate and illegal activities.

Maybe for my next WIP I'll just have them drink a lot of vodka and smoke pot. Now that's something I know about. ;)

Maryn
12-29-2008, 10:31 PM
My friend Jeff always referred to coke as "the sex drug." Apparently it enhanced his ability to become aroused and stay that way, often for longer than the girlfriend-of-the-week cared for him to be.

Me, I've got lifelong sinus problems and my doctors have made a point of telling me coke was a terrible idea if I liked breathing through my nose at all.

Maryn, who liked weed

scarletpeaches
12-29-2008, 10:31 PM
Tell your friend Jeff I said thanks for his help. ;)

Don
12-29-2008, 10:43 PM
What Jeff said.

Not that I have any experience, just things I heard. :rolleyes:

scarletpeaches
12-29-2008, 10:45 PM
Perhaps someone could ask Jeff how long he was able to hold off before he...um...finished?

Calla Lily
12-29-2008, 10:48 PM
A college friend used it, and one night she came to my dorm room with huge, wild eyes, jittery, talking 10X faster than her usual self--totally freaked out. I though she had a humongous fight with her BF. Nope--she and her BF had just snorted coke. She had the munchies to the Nth degree, and I gave her what I had, which was half a box of gingersnaps. She talked about those gingersnaps for an entire semester: said they saved her life.

Eek.

Her BF was the lead singer of a punk rock group (this was in 1983-4). Part of his act was to slit his wrist with a razor blade and invite someone in the audience to come and suck the blood. IIRC, he snorted coke before this to work himself up to the wrist-slashing.

Ah, the 80s, when AIDS was a mere whisper on the edges of society.

Eek.

scarletpeaches
12-29-2008, 10:51 PM
Hmm. Well my characters just plan on making the beast with two backs, but I'm glad I started this thread. Could lead to some very interesting stories.

I must say, you folks all have some intriguing 'friends'. ;)

mscelina
12-29-2008, 10:54 PM
A few quirks:

You never forget the taste. Ever. Even if you were a casual user, years later the taste of cocaine will come back to you in the back of the throat and instantly you know exactly what it is.

The rush doesn't feel like a rush until you've been rushing for an hour or so.

You can smell what ever substance it was cut with as you snort it. kerosene is the worst.

Sex drug? Absolutely--a guy can go forever, to the point of, "Hello--this isn't fun any more. Thanks." Cocaine makes a woman very dry. So sex ends up being ungratifying in a lot of ways.

The morning after, btw, is the worst morning after ever. sinus infections are no fun, right? heh. multiply that by about forty. most habitual coke users carry sinus spray constantly.

Celina--who has tried lots of things in her life and isn't ashamed to admit it.

scarletpeaches
12-29-2008, 10:56 PM
I don't even know anything about cutting coke. I may PM some folks.

What's a standard substance for it to be cut with, if that's not a total loser question?

Maryn
12-29-2008, 10:57 PM
Interesting. I've never heard of coke inducing the munchies. Weed, sure. ("Wow, is that broccoli? Can I have some?")

I have long since lost touch with Jeff, but as I recall, a real-world, non-exaggerated half hour of intercourse (following probably a similar amount of foreplay because it was so interesting) was typical. If the lady also partakes, lubrication is needed. She can also "ingest' coke through any mucous membrane which just happens to be exposed.

Maryn, who'd have begged for a break

kuwisdelu
12-29-2008, 11:35 PM
They use it recreationally; it's kind of a background thing. Not the man aspect of their personalities. If it's important, they're female, in their mid-twenties and treat coke like something they do here and there, just for fun. One gets involved with a younger man who's never done coke before, which leads to a couple of questions:

I'll say one thing. For many people, it's very hard for coke to be a "here and there, just for fun" thing. For some people, it's possible. Make sure your characters generally don't have an addictive personality and tend to be fairly strong-willed for it to come off as believable, though.


Can anyone enlighten me as to what the rush feels like if it's your first time, and how this would vary if you're an experienced user? How long it takes to hit, the sensations, etc?

Err...as with most drugs it really varies from person to person.

If you want a "write what you know," the best advice I can suggest without trying it is to go out and take a few caffeine pills until you're so jittery you can't sit still and you find it impossible to do anything slowly.

Depending on a variety of factors, down to the the shape of your nostrils, it can hit in anything from a few minutes to much longer than that. I'd say five to twenty minutes for most, depending on how much you do. The feeling is hard to describe.

Oh, I can tell you one thing--it hurts. Your nose hurts afterward. After snorting anything, really. You get used to it, though. And the drip sucks. In the back of your throat, when whatever isn't absorbed drips down with mucus, as celina mentioned, tastes horrible. If you're OCD or just neurotic, this can be very unpleasant.


Also - how would cocaine affect a young man's ability to achieve and maintain an erection? How long would he...*ahem*...be able to go on for, and would he still be able to have an orgasm?

Achieve and maintain? Generally, no problem. But a long, long time. Orgasm questionable--whatever works better for your plot ;) Either way it'll be believable.


I don't even know anything about cutting coke. I may PM some folks.

What's a standard substance for it to be cut with, if that's not a total loser question?

Cutting it with vicodin is abnormally pleasurable. I can't imagine most drug dealers would be that nice, though. More often it's something like baking soda.

Feel free to PM me.

Stew21
12-29-2008, 11:40 PM
A couple of sidenotes to coke use: people who are on coke grit their teeth a lot and clinch their jaws tight: reason being your teeth/gums get slightly numb. THe taste lasts a really long time in the back of the throat. Users will swallow a lot clearing that passage.

IceCreamEmpress
12-29-2008, 11:48 PM
A great source for first-person accounts of drug use is erowid.org.

CACTUSWENDY
12-29-2008, 11:59 PM
Wow..thanks SP for asking about this. Never done any of it and this information has been most eye opening. (With my allergies this would be a real let down.)

scarletpeaches
12-30-2008, 12:00 AM
Thanks for your help everyone. I have a PM or two to read, so will look over this thread again and probably ask a few more questions when it comes time to write the relevant chapters.

I don't know why these two characters have decided to do coke, but there you go...they have minds of their own.

katiemac
12-30-2008, 12:31 AM
A great source for first-person accounts of drug use is erowid.org.

Thanks for posting this. I needed info on cocaine and heroin. (SP--I might hijack your thread with a question or two of my own later.)

Stacia Kane
12-30-2008, 12:31 AM
Hmm. For me the rush always hit very quickly, and I don't remember it being any less good later times than it did the first time. It does sting a bit when you first snort it, but immediately after that your nostrils and especially your sinuses numb out--at least they do if the coke is any good. ;)

And yeah, I've never heard of anyone getting munchies from coke--but perhaps if she'd been doing it all night and had come down, actually, yeah; she could very well have been starving. Food is the last thing on your mind when you're speeding like that, but after, it's like you've been doing a light jog all night on no fuel! It is somewhat similar to a caffeine rush but so generally--at least at first--without the jitters and tension. Coke highs feel good, physically and mentally. Like the whole world is sparkling, and you are the sparkliest of all, thin and beautiful and special.

The initial rush doesn't last very long; half an hour, forty minute tops. Then you want more. You totally, totally want MORE. Two people could go through half a gram in one night, easy. And if it's a guy and a girl, yeah, they very probably will want to have some sex at some point--at least, they will *after* the initial rush has faded, because during the initial rush all you want to do is talk. And smoke cigarettes, if you smoke. But yes, sex on any kind of speed is good, and you can go forever, but that's the problem--it takes forever for anyone to finish.

I've known lots of people with fairly addictive personalities who were able to take or leave coke, myself included. Because of the chattiness of it, it's not necessarily practical as an everyday drug, and it's not always easy to get.

Oh, and Mscelina is so right about the morning after. Especially if you were drinking alcohol too, it's bad. Your sinuses are totally clogged with what feels like dust, your head pounds, your body feels mummified it's so dry, you feel gritty and, if you have nervous habits which have been exacerbated all night, you could very well have sore muscles.

scarletpeaches
12-30-2008, 12:33 AM
Thanks for posting this. I needed info on cocaine and heroin. (SP--I might hijack your thread with a question or two of my own later.)

Feel free. I am, after all, the Derail Queen so I deserve it!

Calla Lily
12-30-2008, 01:54 AM
Just popping in, as I've never done coke and only went by what my friend told me so long ago. She said she'd been doing coke, and it could've been a long night of it. She was into extremes and breaking rules and living on the edge. And she was *starving* when she showed up at my door.

FWIW. :)

Tsu Dho Nimh
12-30-2008, 02:01 AM
Hmm. Well my characters just plan on making the beast with two backs, but I'm glad I started this thread. Could lead to some very interesting stories.

Um ... he may be unable to orgasm, last way longer than she is comfortable with, and end up in the bathroom making love alone.

It enhances erection but not necessarily orgasm.

scarletpeaches
12-30-2008, 02:04 AM
She has a flatmate. Maybe she could help out.

Stew21
12-30-2008, 02:06 AM
regarding the munchies, it may be more a level of energy thing than a hunger thing. So much happening so fast in the brain, you feel the need for your body to move quickly, too, so food might be more about putting in and chewing than anything. (and it probably stills that teeth grinding thing a bit too.)

scarletpeaches
12-30-2008, 02:09 AM
Teeth-grinding means one particular thing won't be happening in that chapter.

I'm assuming when it comes to a woman's sexual 'performance' for want of a better word, it would have much the same effect on her as it would on her lover, in that there would be heightened sensation but a delay in 'finishing', perhaps?

Although going by a few rep points and PMs I've had today, it seems some women find coke use in the bedroom immensely satisfying...

You dirty lot.

Stacia Kane
12-30-2008, 03:43 AM
I'm assuming when it comes to a woman's sexual 'performance' for want of a better word, it would have much the same effect on her as it would on her lover, in that there would be heightened sensation but a delay in 'finishing', perhaps?



That's how it always was for me, anyway.

scarletpeaches
12-30-2008, 04:05 AM
Everyone's help is going to make the acknowledgements/dedications page of this novel a mass of 'anons' and 'you know who you ares'...

Don
12-30-2008, 04:10 AM
Everyone's help is going to make the acknowledgements/dedications page of this novel a mass of 'anons' and 'you know who you ares'...

...and finally, I'd like to acknowledge all the druggies at the Absolute Write Water Cooler for my introduction to cocaine.

scarletpeaches
12-30-2008, 04:12 AM
That's about the size of it, yes.

I may have to do some 'hands on' research now.

StephanieFox
12-30-2008, 11:36 PM
Cocaine is used medically, and that's how I experienced it. If you have any nasal surgery or even just a stich in your nose, you may have had it.

When I was given it (stitch in the inside of my nostril) it was 100 percent pure (I saw the bottle.) I have to say that I was not impressed. I was wide awake, for sure, but there wasn't much of a rush. I felt very clearheaded but it was no big deal. My understanding is that not all people who try it have a big-deal exerience. There are a few who find it more like a cup of coffee. I think I was one of those.

Siddow
12-31-2008, 12:04 AM
Back to the food/munchie stuff: during the, erm, party, eating is about out of the question. But during the coming-down (say, an hour after you run out of goods, lol), my 'friends' would hit the kitchen and make biscuits and gravy and pig out. So being famished afterward is pretty usual, at least in the circles I ran in.

And cocaine numbs, so the stuff about a woman using it down there during sex is plausible, although not particularly fun for the woman, since she's numb. It'd be like using OraGel instead of Astroglide.

The effects are pert near instantaneous. Ten minutes later, you want more.

scarletpeaches
12-31-2008, 12:05 AM
Ah, I wondered about using it on the genital area.

*takes notes*

She (meaning my character) is going to snort it off his six pack.

Just because...well, it's smexy.

Ken
12-31-2008, 12:12 AM
...friend from my youth got hooked on it. Went from being a really bright guy to ---> :e2hammer:
:-(

BarbaraKE
12-31-2008, 02:51 AM
Cocaine is used medically, and that's how I experienced it. If you have any nasal surgery or even just a stich in your nose, you may have had it.

When I was given it (stitch in the inside of my nostril) it was 100 percent pure (I saw the bottle.) I have to say that I was not impressed. I was wide awake, for sure, but there wasn't much of a rush. I felt very clearheaded but it was no big deal. My understanding is that not all people who try it have a big-deal exerience. There are a few who find it more like a cup of coffee. I think I was one of those.

In all fairness, I doubt that the amount they use this way is enough to give a 'rush'.

But I will also agree that 'not all people have a big-deal experience'. I tried it three times (many years ago). Absolutely nothing. And there was nothing wrong with the drug - other people were affected. It just doesn't do anything for me.

But I also lack the enzyme in the liver that metabolizes codeine. In other words, I can take tylenol with codeine like m&m's but it doesn't affect me. Maybe there's a connection. (This, by the way, is not that uncommon. I remember researching it years ago and the MD Anderson website mentioned that roughly 5-10% of Caucasians lack this particular enzyme.)

HoraceJames
12-31-2008, 05:00 PM
Casual sniffer from late seventies - early eighties, here. The days of "Bolivian Marching Powder." So some of this may not be up to date info.

The effect is damn near immediate. Not so much a rush as a lift. The effect on the nose even more so. The drainage is not pleasant, but I never heard of anybody getting sick from it. Or, quitting.

Coke is cut (stepped on) at every link in the chain of distribution. Even the little guy who buys four grams will add at least a gram of cut. Basically, at minimum you want your sales to pay for your own consumption.

A lot of different substances were used, the most common was mannitol, which I think was a component of laxatives? I used to work at a record store that sold head supplies, and people would order a variety of different cutting agents (try doing that with your ipod) and then free-basing came in, so you had all these bottles of solvents and pyrex tubes and stuff... but I guess crack put a end to all that stuff. Other key accessories of the era: a triple beam scale, a Deering (a tiny food processor for coke, fluffs it up -- cool device,) the spoon (sometimes worn around the neck,) a single edged razor blade (to chop and lay out the lines on:) a Special Mirror, silkscreened with the logo of your favorite band. More than once I snorted lines off of Stevie Nicks' nose.

Side effects: hyperactivity, insomnia (but that was the point!) and nasal problems. You can tell who's been whiffin' by who's sniffin'. That and the occasional white nostril boulder. A friend of mine became addicted (or, coaddicted) to nasal spray (really, it's pretty common.)

The main purpose for coke was not the experience itself, but to let you keep partying until the sun came up. You can drink a hell of a lot more when you're all coked up. As for sex... it didn't really heighten the experience so much as extend it. The thought never crossed my mind to try direct application, the numbing effect would make it feel like somebody else's unit.

One think I disliked about coke was that it was a prestige drug. Pot was smoked freely, passed around. Coke required the selection of an elite few, who would leave the party and proceed to the bathroom for private inhalation therapy, snorted through rolled up currency. Pot was socialism, coke was capitalism.

lexxi
01-01-2009, 11:27 PM
Coke highs feel good, physically and mentally. Like the whole world is sparkling, and you are the sparkliest of all, thin and beautiful and special.

So what about someone moving from using cocaine at parties to using at work because they want to feel that way while working? And believe, probably incorrectly, that the work produced while high is better.

lexxi
01-05-2009, 01:34 AM
So what about someone moving from using cocaine at parties to using at work because they want to feel that way while working? And believe, probably incorrectly, that the work produced while high is better.

No thoughts about this?

scarletpeaches
01-05-2009, 01:42 AM
So what about someone moving from using cocaine at parties to using at work because they want to feel that way while working? And believe, probably incorrectly, that the work produced while high is better.

While I've never done coke myself (hence this thread) I am curious about it, for my characters and myself.

The fact of the matter is, getting high feels good. Getting pissed feels good. That's why people do it. That's why I've done it.

And it's not something most people do to help them become more efficient in their work. That's why you have the term 'recreational' user. It's a spare time thing. You let off steam. You cut loose. You party to make yourself feel better during your down time.

That's how it was for me. I used to drink like a fish. Was I ever drunk at work? Hell no. I knew it could lead to disciplinary action and possible job loss. So I kept my partying for my free time.

It's a fallacy to assume drug takers or drinkers always escalate. They don't. Never heard the term 'functioning' alcoholic or drug-user? Yeah. They still hold down jobs, run their lives pretty well. It's in their down time they get wasted and no one ever knows.

People taking drugs at work isn't what this thread was about (ha! Hark at me, Queen of the Derails). I simply asked the question because I want to know what effect coke has on a first-time male user's ability to get an erection, maintain it and eventually have an orgasm. To put it crudely.

I might take coke one day, but I'll never have a penis, so I don't know these things.


No thoughts about this?

Maybe DQ is busy. She could be working.

Or maybe she's doing a couple of lines, who knows?

The fact is - snorting coke feels good. So her reply was correct. Everything sparkles when you're on drugs. It's naive to think otherwise. Jeez, if coke made you feel bad there would be no market for it.

Not that alcohol is anything like cocaine - I would assume - but I've never been as happy as I was pissed. I felt good. That's why I did it.

I was a binge drinker, not an alcoholic. So that goes to show; not everyone escalates to other drugs of choice. I wanted to stop, so I did.

It's called self-control.

lexxi
01-05-2009, 01:55 AM
Yes, I'm derailing the topic a little with a different question about cocaine use, relevant to the backstory of the piece I'm working on.

I was just a little disappointed that, whether because I was a day or two late to this thread or because the question didn't interest any of the other posters, no one had responded.

The good thing about the fact that it's backstory is that I really don't need to go into detail. I just happen to be obsessed with that particular character's backstory.

scarletpeaches
01-05-2009, 02:02 AM
Ha. Tell me about it. God knows why these two characters have decided to do coke, but they have, so...oh well. Now the thread's been bumped someone else might be able to help you.

Sorry if I was ratty in my previous post. I'm hellish tired at the moment. Not that that's any excuse. I should get offline and catch some ZZZs.

kuwisdelu
01-05-2009, 02:25 AM
So what about someone moving from using cocaine at parties to using at work because they want to feel that way while working? And believe, probably incorrectly, that the work produced while high is better.

Sounds plausible enough to me. I'm not sure what else you're looking for. Can you be more specific?

I can say for one that his work won't necessarily get better--but it will get faster. Unlike pot or alcohol, coke doesn't really impair your judgment and abilities so much as speed them up. That'll lead to some split-second decisions--if your first idea is a good one, all the better. If your first idea is a bad one, you're far less likely to think it through. It's certainly plausible it gets better OR worse (necessarily accompanied by an increase in output), so whatever you need for the plot.

scarletpeaches
01-05-2009, 02:28 AM
lexxi, I owe you an apology. I thought you were saying a recreational user would move on to using at work, like it was a natural progression.

Ack.

*stays away from internet until she's wide awake again*

lexxi
01-05-2009, 03:09 AM
Sounds plausible enough to me. I'm not sure what else you're looking for. Can you be more specific?

He directs plays. From about age 20-35 his work was considered brilliant and cutting edge (by the theatre community and himself). Then it became more routine -- competent but unexciting. When he started doing coke before/during rehearsal, he felt more inspired. Worked for him for several years but eventually got out of control, and he got fired from a job in circumstances that would make other theatre companies reluctant to hire him again. (There were ~40 people in the room to witness the incident; word gets around.)

That's all the reader really needs to know. I'm curious for myself about the details of what might have happened.

kuwisdelu
01-05-2009, 03:18 AM
He directs plays. From about age 20-35 his work was considered brilliant and cutting edge (by the theatre community and himself). Then it became more routine -- competent but unexciting. When he started doing coke before/during rehearsal, he felt more inspired. Worked for him for several years but eventually got out of control, and he got fired from a job in circumstances that would make other theatre companies reluctant to hire him again. (There were ~40 people in the room to witness the incident; word gets around.)

Coke isn't exactly the kind of drug you take to feel "inspired." It'll sure allow you to think quicker, so I can see it helping in that way. As for directing, it'll definitely give him more energy to think on his feet, do more at once, etc.

An incident is easy. Coke'll really shorten your temper. With enough, there's no such thing as going "too far." Additionally, it can make you pretty paranoid.

Get enough cokeheads in a room at once, say "narc," and soon they'll all be accusing the others of being narcs, which can lead to pulling guns, knives, fists, anything on one another. One incident in which my friend was involved had everyone so high and everyone accusing the other of narcs, they eventually grabbed nerf guns and starting shooting one another--quite lucky they weren't real. It's not PCP or anything, but if you start beating someone up, you'll get carried away with it very easily.

But anything that used to make him angry (forgetting lines, bad costuming, putting props in the wrong place, etc.), could be an incident. Throw enough actors/stage hands pissing him off on one day and just let him go off on them.

katiemac
01-05-2009, 03:38 AM
An incident is easy. Coke'll really shorten your temper. With enough, there's no such thing as going "too far." Additionally, it can make you pretty paranoid.

Get enough cokeheads in a room at once, say "narc," and soon they'll all be accusing the others of being narcs, which can lead to pulling guns, knives, fists, anything on one another. One incident in which my friend was involved had everyone so high and everyone accusing the other of narcs, they eventually grabbed nerf guns and starting shooting one another--quite lucky they weren't real. It's not PCP or anything, but if you start beating someone up, you'll get carried away with it very easily.

But anything that used to make him angry (forgetting lines, bad costuming, putting props in the wrong place, etc.), could be an incident. Throw enough actors/stage hands pissing him off on one day and just let him go off on them.

This is all good to know.

Jumping in for the derail, like I said I might.

I'm looking for info on heroin, although less of a recreational use like SP wants to know about cocaine. More about what an addicted user might go through, what it feels like, and personality changes on and off the drug. Same responses for cocaine are helpful, since I'm currently deciding which drug to actually use in the story. Thanks in advance, and more than happy to receive PMs. :D

scarletpeaches
01-05-2009, 03:40 AM
Derail shmerail. I've got no objections and if it's all about drugs it might be something I can use in future, apart from coke I mean.:D

mscelina
01-05-2009, 03:48 AM
He directs plays. From about age 20-35 his work was considered brilliant and cutting edge (by the theatre community and himself). Then it became more routine -- competent but unexciting. When he started doing coke before/during rehearsal, he felt more inspired. Worked for him for several years but eventually got out of control, and he got fired from a job in circumstances that would make other theatre companies reluctant to hire him again. (There were ~40 people in the room to witness the incident; word gets around.)

That's all the reader really needs to know. I'm curious for myself about the details of what might have happened.

You know (yep, here comes one of Celina's 'when I was a professional actor' stories) there was a brilliant young director in a major city in the Southeastern United States. he was an absolute coke fiend. FIEND. I've never known anyone to do as much coke as this guy did and live.

I did probably eight-nine shows with this director and never, not once, not one goshdarn time did he lay out a line of coke during rehearsal. I've seen actors do it--their voices went to crap, they usually crashed in the middle of the show and it was bad. But a director? During rehearsal? Never. Directing is too meticulous of a process. No self-respecting cokehead would mess up a good buzz while taking blocking notes. You get to the cast party and there might be a spiral laid out upon the coffee table, but pretty much any director who used any sort of substance while directing would be *a* useless *b* incapable of keeping track of what was going on *c* completely disinterested in what was going on and *d* fired. In the theatre, you can't be fucked up on drugs and cutting edge/brilliant--not since Hair was the big hit on Broadway anyway.

Besides, coke never inspired me. You want an inspired artist? Follow the routes of Coleridge, Poe and Carroll. Cocaine is an entirely different beast altogether.

mscelina
01-05-2009, 03:49 AM
Let me edit that a bit. Pot, of course, does not count.

kuwisdelu
01-05-2009, 04:03 AM
but pretty much any director who used any sort of substance while directing would be *a* useless *b* incapable of keeping track of what was going on *c* completely disinterested in what was going on and *d* fired.

I can't speak to the theatre part, my only experience being from high school, but I would this part would depend on how coke affects you? I've sure known people capable of doing similar work (I'm thinking of music, not theatre, so I'm not sure how far the analogy carries) on coke.

mscelina
01-05-2009, 04:07 AM
Directing theatre in particular requires too much attention to detail for coke to be a benefit to any director. You have to be able to watch an actor's line reading, their blocking, check light settings, set audio levels, make notes, make costume notes, make character changes, implement props, light, sound, special effects, costumes, makeup, curtains, scrims, a/v things, fog, and a full cast and crew of people pretty much by yourself. I've directed a number of plays on levels ranging from high school to professional theatre and believe me when I tell you it is NOT possible to direct while on cocaine. You know how some people will do coke and immediately get overwhelmed--the weepers, the teeth-grinders, the laughing for no reason ones? Trying to direct a show does that to people WITHOUT drugs.

lexxi
01-05-2009, 04:20 AM
As for directing, it'll definitely give him more energy to think on his feet, do more at once, etc.

Good enough.


But anything that used to make him angry (forgetting lines, bad costuming, putting props in the wrong place, etc.), could be an incident. Throw enough actors/stage hands pissing him off on one day and just let him go off on them.

Yeah, any actual violence should do it.


pretty much any director who used any sort of substance while directing

Oh, I think alcohol is not uncommon.


would be *a* useless *b* incapable of keeping track of what was going on *c* completely disinterested in what was going on and *d* fired.

Well, yeah, that's where he ends up. But would *a* through *c* be apparent the first time he came to rehearsal coked up, or would it depend how much he was using and potentially escalate over time?

I've had reason to wonder about some directors I've worked with.


In the theatre, you can't be fucked up on drugs and cutting edge/brilliant--not since Hair was the big hit on Broadway anyway.

Different periods of his life -- he got into the drugs after his creativity and/or public interest in what he had to offer had already started to decline for other reasons.

mscelina
01-05-2009, 04:41 AM
Then he's no longer brilliant. He's just another tragedy of the theatre and his immortality ran out. The first time he came to rehearsal coked up, everyone would know it and in a professional production, where you have producers and the like to deal with, he would be fired. What you're talking about it someone who's already washed up and the theatre is an unforgiving business. When you're washed up, you're gone. Only an outstanding talent who cleans himself up, like Robert Downey Jr for example, could possibly come back from that.

As for alcohol, well, I've worked with drunk directors before too. Here again, though, every director will tell you that the most important part of the job in meticulous attention to detail--every detail--and drunk directors, pothead directors, pill-popping directors all miss those details. A director cannot allow himself to lose control of the show at any stage, not even one rehearsal. Not. One. So a coke fiend who's directing a play might sit there and scratch his arm compulsively during a rehearsal because he's not on coke, but he's not going to excuse himself to go do a line.

kuwisdelu
01-05-2009, 04:47 AM
So a coke fiend who's directing a play might sit there and scratch his arm compulsively during a rehearsal because he's not on coke, but he's not going to excuse himself to go do a line.

I'll defer to your expertise on the rest of the directing stuff, but this part has me wondering. I've definitely known a couple addicts who are practically nonfunctional when not on anything, but they're perfectly functional and you can barely tell they're high if they've only had a moderate amount (well, moderate relative to what they do to actually get high...).

Of course, that's not a good place to be.

mscelina
01-05-2009, 04:57 AM
Coke users' 'moderation' level increases through time. This director I spoke of earlier (one I was worried enough about to consider contacting the police and helping to set up a sting for his dealer) had more than a little habit. As time went on and the amount of coke he needed to get high increased, he lost everything. EVERYTHING. All on the same day--career, home, car, freedom, possessions. When he was directing me in Cat on a Hot Tin Roof (where he got one of my best performances out of me, just FYI) he sat in the house and constantly scratched his arms--scratched them until he had long red gouges in his skin. When he wasn't doing that, he was sniffing nasal spray--constantly. He would literally sit in that chair and shiver, bundled up in a coat, forcing himself to stay clean long enough to make it through a two hour rehearsal period with all of his faculties intact. He was brilliant and doomed and one of the greatest directors I've ever known. But, as with all great directors, he was a great actor too. he knew how to act 'normal' if he needed to--he was always calm and soft-spoken and kind. But after rehearsal? Once we'd be out having a couple of drinks and he'd have his fix on all of a sudden that persona would change. The things he hadn't liked in rehearsal came out then--viciously, sometimes brutally. It was strange the way it worked. You'd think it would be the opposite.

kuwisdelu
01-05-2009, 05:02 AM
It was strange the way it worked.

Interesting. It's just not the same personality differences I've experienced.

Well, the vicious, brutal part can be there high or not, just for very different reasons.


You'd think it would be the opposite.

That's more what I'm used to.