Leeches

Heath

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In my novel, vampires use leeches as one form of taking blood from victims without causing bloodletting wounds from lancets, and thus can pacify victims away from resisting and use the blood later. (This is back in the days when bloodletting with leeches was common.) I have a lot of information on how leeches are kept, preserved, and used, but my question is about the viability of the blood.

Q1) Putting aside the potential for disease (which is not relevant to the vampires), can you effectively "squeeze" blood from leeches into wineskins or directly into a mouth, or is this really difficult?

Q2) Also, leeches can live for 50-100 days without new blood, but how well is the blood preserved during that period for future use (consumption)?

Q3) Anything else that would make this leeches idea untenable (or, on the other hand, make it work better)?
 

Puma

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You've got to be kidding. A. There would be very little blood in any one leech. B. Why squeeze the leech - why not just rip them open to reclaim the couple drops of blood? You'd be killing them by squeezing them anyway. C. How well are the French Fries you ate last night preserved as French fries? If I were you, I'd go back to the drawing board and come up with a better idea. And, by the way, the leeches "biting mechanism" is basically a lancet. Puma
 

Cyia

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As soon as the blood is inside the leech, its body would start to process it. I'm not going to pretend to know a lot about them, but I would assume there is an anti-coagulant involved in the extraction process when a leech latches on (usually blood runs out once it's removed/burned off). This would make the blood inside the leech different from regular blood coming out of a human body.
 

GeorgeK

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It's an interesting twist. You could have the vampire be a physician or use physicians to collect the blood. (purchase the leeches, or hypnotize or intimidate the physicians, whatever your vampire prefers) If the blood has to be fresh for the vampire then the leeches would have to be harvested quickly as in a matter of hours. I'd consider having the vampire simply eat the entire leech. It would add a gross out factor that would make the vampire more reviled. If the vampire is eating blood, then they have to have a digestive system. If the blood can be cooked, then they'd also like blood puddings, blood sausage etc. as well as maybe still deriving something from a leech maybe a week or so after a phlebotomy session.
 

Shadow_Ferret

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I'd have to agree that leeches, though an interesting idea, is just not feasible as a way to gather and transfer blood. As someone noted the leech doesn't "store" the blood, it starts to digest and process it immediately, so the blood would be tainted at best and unusable most likely.
 

GeorgeK

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I'd have to agree that leeches, though an interesting idea, is just not feasible as a way to gather and transfer blood. As someone noted the leech doesn't "store" the blood, it starts to digest and process it immediately, so the blood would be tainted at best and unusable most likely.


True, but maybe in Heath's universe, the blood doesn't have to arterially fresh? What is it in the blood that the vampire needs? Does the vampire feed exclusively on blood, or is blood merely a necessary supplement? Or is blood not a nutritional requirement for the vampire but more of a drug?

Also, maybe these are special leeches that have been raised on blood from a victim only bitten once by a vampire and so have a little of the vampire in them as well? There could be a network of distribution of these vampire leeches leading to additional income for the vampire if all the physicians think these leeches are better at their job.
 

Heath

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Thanks all. I didn't really explain what's going on in the book. Essentially, the vampires punish other rogue vampires by stringing them up and making them eat blood that is not fresh...or if one is caught, blood is sneaked to them. Also, leeches are used to open the wound and prevent coagulation so that those feeding directly from the victim can do so for a longer period of time. Further, the reason I said no lancets is because the pain involved with a lancet would be painful and not what a willing victim would like as much as a leech, not to avoid the evidence of wounds.

A leech can take 50 ml of blood (about 10 teaspoons), so it is not just a "few drops," as Puma mentioned. Also, the life of the leech is unimportant. It is merely for extracting and temporarily storing the blood in an age when leeches were commonly used, and by keeping the victims from recoilling, so the same victims can be used over and over and over again.

So the leech could be slit and the blood drinken out of it, but it would most commonly be used for taking blood from victims, slicing open the leech, and gathering the blood in wineskins for the other vampires. So as far as storing the blood, it only needs to be stored for about 10-15 minutes. (I was just curious about how long it would be viable in the leech in case that gave me an idea to add.)

Anyone have real concrete information about the blood after it is "inside" the leeches?

(There's also a psychological/literary element, since the villain vampire likes leeches so much, as they are so much like him.)

(Also, leeches help detoxify the blood of the person they're on and reduce overly high iron content in the blood, and they can also be used to take the blame for dissanguination so vampirism is not suspected.)
 
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Heath

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Here's the origin of my idea:

"all blood-sucking leeches harbour symbiotic bacteria, Aeromonas hydrophila, in their intestines. This bacterium helps with the digestion of its bloodmeal and also produces an antibiotic that limits the growth of other bacteria such as those that cause damaged tissue to become necrotic and die."

So leeches have bacteria that prevent the blood itself inside them from dying. Although this poses the problem of bacterial infection if someone then ingests the blood, this is not a problem with vampires immune from bacterial infections, so theoretically vampires should be able to preserve blood in leeches for quite a long time.

If anyone has solid experience or expert knowledge about whether this would work, that's really what I'm looking for. Thanks.
 

Heath

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Might get stuck in their throats though. :) Plus, the ones my vampire uses are very large leeches (of the over 250 varieties).

One error some people are stating above is that the blood immediately begins to digest. This is wrong. The blood goes into a holding "crop," which holds the blood for a long period of time. Blood is not digested at all in the crop. A bacteria in the crop goes into the blood to prevent necrosis, and another bacteria breaks down the amino acids into monomers, and some mucous gets mixed with the blood. Then the blood very, very slowly goes into the intestine, which is a very small part on the body, and the crop can hold the blood through this slow digestion for up to half a year (50-70 days until it gets hungry again).

So I think I'm accurate in saying that the blood, except for the bacteria and some mucous, is fairly well preserved in the crop (the vast majority of body of the leech) for quite a long time.
 

Puma

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Hi Heath - Glad you indicated you're aware there are quite a few varieties of leeches. But be sure your giant leeches are consistent with the area you've set your story in. Garden variety leeches around here are small brown ones, less than an inch long. There are a few larger ones that run about three inches - unstretched. Neither one of those could take ten teaspoons of blood. Puma
 

BarbaraKE

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The blood goes into a holding "crop," which holds the blood for a long period of time. Blood is not digested at all in the crop. A bacteria in the crop goes into the blood to prevent necrosis, and another bacteria breaks down the amino acids into monomers, and some mucous gets mixed with the blood. Then the blood very, very slowly goes into the intestine, which is a very small part on the body, and the crop can hold the blood through this slow digestion for up to half a year (50-70 days until it gets hungry again).

Actually, it sounds like the blood is digested in the crop. Technically, 'digestion' refers to the breaking down of complex molecules into smaller molecules (i.e. 'breaks down the amino acid'). 'Absorption' is when these smaller molecules are absorbed through the intestinal walls into the bloodstream.

In humans, some 'digestion' occurs in the mouth, some in the stomach, but most in the intestines. All the absorption occurs in the intestines.

Getting back to your question - what's sitting in the leech's crop is no longer blood.
 

BarbaraKE

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If I were you, I'd go back to the drawing board and come up with a better idea.

Actually, a very similar idea was used in the movie 'Dracula 2000'. It supposedly takes place in (tada!!) 2000 and Abraham Van Helsing is still alive. He let leeches feed on Dracula's body and then 'used the blood from the leeches to keep himself alive'. I don't remember if he squeezes them or cuts them open or what, but we do see him injecting himself in the arm.

And, by the way, the leeches "biting mechanism" is basically a lancet. Puma

Just out of curiosity - why don't you feel the leech when it pierces the skin?? Is it just because it's so small?? Or does it numb the skin or something??
 

Heath

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Okay, I concede the point depending on what you consider "digesting." But isn't the blood in the crop, for utility purposes at any rate, still blood except with some mucous and bacteria in it? I mean, if it can stay viable for many months in storage in the leech's crop without necrosis, it's not like what happens in our stomachs with stomach acid or in our intestines. So isn't this a storage area like a wineskin (or bloodskin bladder) that preserves the blood until small parts of it, a few cc's at a time, go in the intestinal track? Or am I wrong about this?

I.e., couldn't the vampire put a bunch of leeches in a "leech jar" (which actually exist, believe it or not) full of engorged leeches in a relatively cold environment and store some or all of the blood without necrosis this way? Then he just pulls them out, slits them open and gets 10 or so teaspoons out of each one on the sly when he feels like it.

And to answer Puma, he has the large leeches specially imported, which is a clue in the mystery of tracking down the vampire.
 

Puma

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Not sure, Barbara. It's been ages since I was bitten by a leech (learned to wear tennis shoes in our creek at a fairly young age.) I don't remember any sensation at all when getting bitten, just the uncomfortable feeling of something that wasn't supposed to be there when I got out of the creek. I suspect that leeches don't inject a blood thinner like mosquitoes and that maybe the thinner going in from mosquitoes is what we actually feel. Don't know and never did any research on it. Puma
 

Tsu Dho Nimh

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Medically speaking, anti-coagulated blood cells will live for 30-40 days in a blood bank in a plastic bag ... why not in a leech?


And, you don't feel it because their saliva is a local anaesthetic
 
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GeorgeK

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I.e., couldn't the vampire put a bunch of leeches in a "leech jar" (which actually exist, believe it or not) full of engorged leeches in a relatively cold environment and store some or all of the blood without necrosis this way? Then he just pulls them out, slits them open and gets 10 or so teaspoons out of each one on the sly when he feels like it.

.

Except that even if the leech's crop can maintain oxygen saturation and nutrition to keep the blood alive, (which I question, although my only experience with leeches is in the realm of surgery. You put the leech on the skin flap to suck out the congested venous blood until the veins have healed, and then you hand off the leech to a nurse and I never saw the leech again. One pharmacist did ask if he could take the extra leeches fishing as bait, but anyways) human red blood cells have no nucleus. They can not reproduce and they have a lifespan of a maximum of three months. I can't imagine any way the leech could selectively pick the dying cells to eat, so that over a maximum of 3 months assuming only the youngest red blood cells had been taken the cells would simply die regardless of the medium inside the crop.
 
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BarbaraKE

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Okay, I concede the point depending on what you consider "digesting." But isn't the blood in the crop, for utility purposes at any rate, still blood except with some mucous and bacteria in it? I mean, if it can stay viable for many months in storage in the leech's crop without necrosis, it's not like what happens in our stomachs with stomach acid or in our intestines. So isn't this a storage area like a wineskin (or bloodskin bladder) that preserves the blood until small parts of it, a few cc's at a time, go in the intestinal track? Or am I wrong about this?

(bolding mine)

(And please remember that I am not an expert on leeches. I am simply going by your original explanation that bacteria breaks down the amino acids in the crop.)

The simple answer is - No.

Human blood is roughly 45% 'formed elements' (i.e. red blood cells, white blood cells, and platelets) and 55% plasma (99+% water).

Let's use red blood cells (RBC) as an example. The RBCs will not be floating around in the crop (as whole cells). They are broken down (e.g. digested) and what's actually floating around is a bunch of molecules (iron, amino acids, etc.)

Think of the RBC as a jigsaw puzzle. It's broken down in the crop and individual little pieces are stored there. Then - when it moves to the intestine - the little pieces are absorbed and used to build whatever the body needs.

The jigsaw puzzle itself is too big to be absorbed through the intestinal wall - that's why digestion has to happen first.

(And that's why stories involving vampires that need red blood cells don't make sense scientifically. If you drink blood, the RBCs are digested - they are no longer RBCs. You could conceivably have a vampire that is short of iron (which is in red blood cells), but you could get the iron from many sources, not just human blood.)

But the technical details don't really matter. Just forget about them. Do you think 'Twilight' or 'Interview with the Vampire' became best sellers because they were scientifically accurate??

This is FICTION. Storing blood in leeches was good enough for a movie (Dracula 2000) so it's good enough here. Your idea sounds slightly different so just go with it.
 
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BarbaraKE

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You put the leech on the skin flap to suck out the congested venous blood until the veins have healed, and then you hand off the leech to a nurse and I never saw the leech again.

I just wanted to say that I just finished nursing school and if you tried to hand off a leech to me, I'd run screaming from the room (though I'd rather have a leech than maggots).

Ugghhh!!