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caseyquinn
12-11-2008, 11:41 PM
Just trying to find some basic info here for the roman catholic church


Priests run a parish, bishops have many dioceses and a cardinal runs a collection of diocese?

Also, priests can be called fathers, bishops and cardinals, who is called your holiness? Either? Any other names they are referred to as ?

What is the general layout of the assignment of priests to churches? Like a bishop is responsible for X number of churches and appoints priests to them? Cardinals appoint bishops? Can bishops just remove a priest?

Do priests have normal contact with their bishop? Like checkups?

Also, priests live in rectories at a church, where does a bishop live? Or a cardinal?


Thanks in advance if anyone can help with a few of these!

dirtsider
12-11-2008, 11:47 PM
One of the best places to start is going to your local RC church. I'm sure they'd be happy to answer your questions. There are often people at a desk that can answer your questions if you head toward the office section of the Church. Also try going to a Mass, this way you have an idea of what happens during one as well as getting idea of what a Church looks like on the inside.

I know that there's a website out there. I think it's www.vatican.org or something like that.

I also think the term His Holiness is reserved for the Pope.

maxmordon
12-11-2008, 11:56 PM
Priests run a parish, bishops have many dioceses and a cardinal runs a collection of diocese?

Priest: Parrish
Bishop: Diosece
Archbishop: Archdiosece (being either really important diosece or more than one diosece in a region)
Cardinals are just bishops named for the College of Cardinals. They usually rule over an important diosece or aarchdiosece but their importance comes that, in the time a Pope dies, he is part of the body that votes for a new Pope.

His Holiness is only for the Pope; for a cardinal you use His Eminence, for a archbishop you use Your Grace, His Excellence to the bishops.

Bo Sullivan
12-12-2008, 12:46 AM
Your Holiness is the Pope of Rome.

caseyquinn
12-12-2008, 01:01 AM
Thanks for the info everyone! I go to church, just never really thought about the hierarchy of it all - tried to find some stuff online but funny nothing says where bishops live lol i guess its not a common question :)

waylander
12-12-2008, 01:35 AM
Bishops (used to) live in the bishop's palace attached to the cathedral of their diocese

scarletpeaches
12-12-2008, 01:39 AM
Also, the brothers take charge of the brethren and the sisters run the cistern.

citymouse
12-12-2008, 02:37 AM
Here's one most of us forget to mention. A cardinal need not be a bishop, or even a priest. Yep. But it's rare. There have been in my memory lay cardinals.
The word cardinal comes from the Latin cardo, meaning hinge or support. Cardinals are aides. Much like a US president's aids, except their job is for life. Once upon a time cardinals did not always select popes from their ranks. One man had the papacy forced upon him by the cardinals. When he ran away they found him and had him imprisoned and then murdered. What a sweet bunch, eh?
C

caseyquinn
12-12-2008, 03:27 AM
ah, so every diocese has a cathedral where the bishop resides. churches have rectories where priest reside. the light is coming on :)

thanks everyone again, really this is just the info i needed!

johnnysannie
12-13-2008, 04:45 AM
Bishops (used to) live in the bishop's palace attached to the cathedral of their diocese

Some of them still do.

The basic breakdown would be

Pope
Arch Diocese
Diocese
Parish

pconsidine
12-13-2008, 05:03 AM
Here's one most of us forget to mention. A cardinal need not be a bishop, or even a priest. Yep. But it's rare. There have been in my memory lay cardinals.My parents are very devout and when we found out that the Pope didn't have to be a priest, we started a tongue-in-cheek campaign to have my mother elected Pope. We were even going to make "Top 10 Reasons Mom Should be Pope" T-shirts (I only remember one of the reasons - "Mom always speaks ex cathedra (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Papal_infallibility#Ex_cathedra) ").

My mother was appropriately scandalized.

mscelina
12-13-2008, 05:12 AM
Don't forget--there is ring kissing involved as you move higher up in the heirarchy.

johnnysannie
12-14-2008, 11:43 PM
Don't forget--there is ring kissing involved as you move higher up in the heirarchy.

That starts at the Bishop level.

johnnysannie
12-15-2008, 05:32 PM
Yeah, before that it's just typical butt kissing. Just like any other organization.

If that's your opinion, then it is. But for devout cradle Catholics, it is quite different.

euclid
12-15-2008, 07:43 PM
Firstly: a Rectory is where a Church of England Rector lives, not a RC priest.
The priests in a parish live in the "parish house"
The "Parish Priest" (PP for short) is in charge of the parish, aided by his curate(s) (i.e. less experienced priests). So a curate could get promoted to the role of parish priest and move on to run his own parish.
Bishops are appointed to oversee a geographical area (called a diocese or a "see")
Each Bishop is ultimately responsible for the parishes in his diocese.
His Holiness the Pope is sometimes called "the Bishop of Rome".
If a priest was to be removed from a parish for any reason, or moved from one to another, the bishop would take that decision, but I'm pretty sure he would need sanction for any such action from Rome (although probably a mere formality in most cases).
Priests, Bishops, Cardinals and of course the Pope cannot be women (although I seem to recall there was a woman pope way back in history)

euclid
12-15-2008, 07:46 PM
Oh, and btw as far as I can recall there are six RC sacraments:

Baptism
Confession
Communion
Confirmation
Matrimony
Extreme Unction

aka eraser
12-15-2008, 07:55 PM
There are seven. Holy Orders (becoming a priest) is the 7th.

euclid
12-15-2008, 08:02 PM
There are seven. Holy Orders (becoming a priest) is the 7th.

...right. I thought there was another one. Thanks for setting me straight.

euclid
12-15-2008, 08:03 PM
There is another rung in the ladder between PP and Bishop, called Monsignor. These super-priests wear a special hat (whose name escapes me). It's a sort of square shaped thing with four sharkfins pointing n,s,e,w, and a pompom on top. These hats are black. I believe cardinals wear a red version of the same hat. Bishops have a mitre, which is shaped like the top of a chess bishop (although I can't think why). Priests in Rome wear a snazzy black hat with a wide brim, a sort of cross between a sombrero and a fedora!

Mike Martyn
12-15-2008, 09:57 PM
[quote=euclid;3067664]Firstly: a Rectory is where a Church of England Rector lives, not a RC priest.
snip snip****

His Holiness the Pope is sometimes called "the Bishop of Rome".

Especially by rabid Presbyterians like my Scottish grandmother!!

snip snip*******

citymouse
12-15-2008, 10:01 PM
The black hat you refer to is called a beretta. All ranks of male clergy wear them. The priests beretta has only three fins (as you say). The monsignor, bishop and cardinal wear a four fined hat. All have pompoms on them.
The bishops and popes wear a mitre. It represents the old and new testaments and with these " twin horns of the word" they defend the church. This headgear was taken from the ancient jewish high priest headwear.
Colors are important too. Priests wear black with a cape and black beretta.
Monsignors wear black with a wide red waist sash and red piping on their cassocks. Their capes are read as well as their skull caps.

Bishops wear purple a purple skull cap under their mitres. Capes too are purple.

Cardinals wear read, even shoes! Very stylish.
C



There is another rung in the ladder between PP and Bishop, called Monsignor. These super-priests wear a special hat (whose name escapes me). It's a sort of square shaped thing with four sharkfins pointing n,s,e,w, and a pompom on top. These hats are black. I believe cardinals wear a red version of the same hat. Bishops have a mitre, which is shaped like the top of a chess bishop (although I can't think why). Priests in Rome wear a snazzy black hat with a wide brim, a sort of cross between a sombrero and a fedora!

euclid
12-15-2008, 10:10 PM
The black hat you refer to is called a beretta.

Wasn't this 007's gun? :)

citymouse
12-15-2008, 10:21 PM
Yep.
C


Wasn't this 007's gun? :)

Chase
12-15-2008, 10:42 PM
Wasn't this 007's gun? :)


Yep.
C

Shirley, you jest. Q, his armorer, often insisted 007 use larger caliber issue pistols, but James disdained them for a sleek Walther PPK in .25 ACP.

The U.S. military brass loves the Berreta, and now I see so does Catholic clergy, although they've apparently kept it under their hats.

johnnysannie
12-15-2008, 10:54 PM
So much for humor.

There's funny and then there are the things that are sacred to some. For most of us, sacred isn't amusing.

euclid
12-15-2008, 11:10 PM
Shirley, you jest. Q, his armorer, often insisted 007 use larger caliber issue pistols, but James disdained them for a sleek Walther PPK in .25 ACP.

The U.S. military brass loves the Berreta, and now I see so does Catholic clergy, although they've apparently kept it under their hats.

Nice one, Chase. :ROFL:

citymouse
12-15-2008, 11:12 PM
Over the years I've been disturbed by what we mean/understand to mean when we hear the phrase "Roman Catholic Church. For most of us images of mitered popes, red robed cardinals, mitered bishops along with priests, nuns and colorfully decked out acolytes represent what we think we know about the oldest surviving human institution. However, the RCC, as self-described, is the mystical body of Christ. And that means a lot of people, not just the hierarchy.
When we refer to the various Protestant denominations, ministries rather than ministers or clergy spring to mind.
I also think it interesting that we refer to devout Catholics and staunch Protestants. Rather unfair, me thinks.
C

stormie
12-15-2008, 11:16 PM
ah, so every diocese has a cathedral where the bishop resides. churches have rectories where priest reside. the light is coming on :)

I'm going to throw something in here: we don't have a cathedral in my town, but a gorgeous church on a lake and the ocean nearby. The diocese put a bishop here in the rectory for several years, two different times. One of those times, even though the bishop lived in the rectory, the Monsignor was the pastor.

Hierarchy: Deacons (don't live in rectory), Reverend (Father), Reverend Monsignor, Bishop, Pope

But as I said, a bishop can live in a parish's rectory but not be the pastor of that parish, yet will say Mass in that parish, etc.

pconsidine
12-15-2008, 11:17 PM
Actually, what I find interesting is the number of non-Catholics writing about the Catholic Church these days. This isn't the first similar request I've seen in these forums of late and, questions of faith and ring-kissing aside, I'm very curious to know what's driving all these folks who know nothing of the Catholic Church to want to write about Catholic characters.

'Tis an ill wind blowing, methinks.

stormie
12-15-2008, 11:28 PM
Casey didn't mention if she/he was Catholic or not.

donroc
12-15-2008, 11:30 PM
Ah, but everyone has forgotten the Monsigneur.

stormie
12-15-2008, 11:32 PM
Oh, and btw as far as I can recall there are six RC sacraments:

Baptism
Confession
Communion
Confirmation
Matrimony
Extreme Unction

Okay, the seventh was mentioned, but here's an updated, post-Vatican II, terminology:

Baptism
Sacrament of Reconciliation
Holy Eucharist (or Holy Communion)
Confirmation
Matrimony
Holy Orders
Sacrament of the Sick


Ah, but everyone has forgotten the Monsigneur.


And donroc, if you look at my post on page one, I mention the Monsignor (last post) so it gets overlooked. :)

So therefore, I'll state it again: A Bishop can live in a rectory in a parish not where the diocesan cathedral is located. And the bishop doesn't have to be the pastor. We had a Monsignor as pastor but the bishop resided in the rectory and said Mass.

citymouse
12-15-2008, 11:48 PM
A diocese may have more than one bishop in residence within its boundaries. But only one will be the diocesan bishop (appointed by Rome) and he makes the rules for all the clergy, even the residing bishop. The diocesan bishop will has the cathedral. Other resident bishops will be assigned to other churches. Some may live in non-church owned houses or apartments. This would depend on the focus of their ministry. Some poor churches don't have resident priests and so don't have rectories or parish houses.
Also any priest, bishop or cardinal who may be passing through a diocese and wants to celebrate mass in public must notify the local bishop and seek permission.
BTW another name for a diocesan bishop is "ordinary". Often you will see the term "the local ordinary".
C

pconsidine
12-16-2008, 12:05 AM
Casey didn't mention if she/he was Catholic or not.I can't imagine that these would be questions for someone raised in the church, but you're right that is an assumption on my part.

Though the other threads I'm thinking of were started by self-stated non-Catholics, so I don't think my concern is misplaced.

aka eraser
12-16-2008, 12:10 AM
Slight correction to the hat being called a "beretta." It's "biretta."

Sorry. Far as I know, they don't come in calibers. ;)

citymouse
12-16-2008, 01:02 AM
Actually birreta is the Spanish form. In Italian it's Berretta. and in English it is beretta.
C


Slight correction to the hat being called a "beretta." It's "biretta."

Sorry. Far as I know, they don't come in calibers. ;)

euclid
12-16-2008, 01:30 AM
Actually birreta is the Spanish form. In Italian it's Berretta. and in English it is beretta.
C

My OED gives biretta as the English word for the priest's cap. Can't find the gun in the OED.

shakeysix
12-16-2008, 01:40 AM
actually i found the butt/ring kissing remark pretty funny and i'm pretty catholic. i think it was the "as in any other political operation" that qualified it as an observation, not ridicule--s6

citymouse
12-16-2008, 02:23 AM
My source is the Oxford American Dictionary. Does it really matter?
C



My OED gives biretta as the English word for the priest's cap. Can't find the gun in the OED.

johnnysannie
12-16-2008, 04:06 PM
actually i found the butt/ring kissing remark pretty funny and i'm pretty catholic. i think it was the "as in any other political operation" that qualified it as an observation, not ridicule--s6

Good for you. My take remains the same - and different than yours.

MattW
12-16-2008, 05:10 PM
Yep.
CNope. For most Bond incarnations, that would be a Walther PPK.

As far as Roman Catholic, all the info here is good - especially the mention of monseigneur. Like others have said above, make sure you distinguish between RC, Church of England, and Eastern Orthodox Churches. There are many similarities, but very many differences that can be spotted by even lapsed Catholics like myself.

In the RC Church hierarchy it goes:

Deacon (can be a layman)
Priest (not all run a parish - some have more than one priest)
Monseigneur (priest with honors)
Bishop
Archbishop
Cardinal (papal elector)
Pope

citymouse
12-16-2008, 06:27 PM
Matt I was thinking if the one episode where Bond is chastised by M for continuing to carry the beretta. M insists Bond carry the Walther PPK provided in the scene by Q. I believe it's the only reference to Bond's beretta in the series--but I may be wrong on that.

Good point in making sure the details about the RCC are correct. As with anything like that someone somewhere will catch an error.
C

Jersey Chick
12-16-2008, 06:56 PM
As someone who was raised Catholic - 9 times out of 10, I read the Catholic threads and think, "Hmm... I didn't know that." Guess I should have paid closer attention before I walked away from it, eh? ;)

stormie
12-16-2008, 07:15 PM
Just to clarify:

.
As far as Roman Catholic, all the info here is good - especially the mention of monseigneur. Monsignor.

Deacon (can be a layman) Is a layman. If they're married already, they can become a deacon. If not married and becomes a deacon, cannot marry at all.They don't live in the rectory.
Priest (not all run a parish - some have more than one priest)
Monseigneur (priest with honors) Monsignor. Again, watch the spelling.
Bishop
Archbishop
Cardinal (papal elector)
Pope

caseyquinn
12-18-2008, 01:03 AM
Actually i am baptised and confirmed. Went to a private cathlioc school from elementary to graduated from a military cathlioc high school. took religon as a class from kindergarten. but again, i havent been in school for 15 years and while i attend to church during holidays, my track record on sundays may not be the best. All that aside, something you just dont really think about. Like where the bishop lives. They dont teach that cause, well, no one cares :)

Thanks again for the info everyone, really helpful !!

citymouse
12-18-2008, 01:29 AM
Except the bishop!
C

caseyquinn
12-18-2008, 01:31 AM
:) well, your right, everyone else

Deb Kinnard
12-18-2008, 06:00 AM
I'm very curious to know what's driving all these folks who know nothing of the Catholic Church to want to write about Catholic characters.

'Tis an ill wind blowing, methinks.

Not so. I write both contemporary romance and stories set before the reformation. I have to learn about medieval Catholicism in order to draw my characters correctly, if I want to write historical fiction.

Nothing sinister about it. If you were Christian before the 1450s or so, you were Catholic. Simple.

johnnysannie
12-18-2008, 04:46 PM
Not so. I write both contemporary romance and stories set before the reformation. I have to learn about medieval Catholicism in order to draw my characters correctly, if I want to write historical fiction.

Nothing sinister about it. If you were Christian before the 1450s or so, you were Catholic. Simple.

True and kudos for recognizing it. I have met so many non-Catholics who don't understand that and tell me wild stories (like Baptists were founded by John the Baptist).

That said, however, I have also often wondered why on earth someone who knows little to nothing about the Catholic church in any era would choose to write about it. Same for any other subject that the writer is unfamiliar with, like someone who lives in Maine but wants to set their story in California, where they have never even been.

caseyquinn
12-18-2008, 04:59 PM
True and kudos for recognizing it. I have met so many non-Catholics who don't understand that and tell me wild stories (like Baptists were founded by John the Baptist).

That said, however, I have also often wondered why on earth someone who knows little to nothing about the Catholic church in any era would choose to write about it. Same for any other subject that the writer is unfamiliar with, like someone who lives in Maine but wants to set their story in California, where they have never even been.


Do you think Steven King knows a lot about clowns? or cars coming to life? Or how about any author that writes about killers or murder? Do you think sci fi writers know aliens?

stormie
12-18-2008, 07:19 PM
Yep, that's why this forum is called "Story Research: Experts and Interviewees Wanted."

As a writer, there will be times when we have to write outside our comfort zone. "Write what you know" is good, BUT even then there are areas where extra input/research is needed.

citymouse
12-18-2008, 09:08 PM
I agree that one should write from knowledge, either experienced or learned. My WIP is a Native American tale. I have researched my subject well through reading, soaking up internet sites and this forum too. I also have an advisor who reads my text for errors. The thing is, many tribes share the same traditions while many don't. I have to be careful not to mix obvious conflicts.
Back to the RCC, I beta read a work set in 12th cent Rome. The author had people entering a cathedral's pews. Buzzzzz. No pews in 12th cent churches. This was an easily researched fact. Key learning. Don't take it for granted that what you think you know is factual. Even if you feel sure, look it up.
C

johnnysannie
12-18-2008, 09:14 PM
Do you think Steven King knows a lot about clowns? or cars coming to life? Or how about any author that writes about killers or murder? Do you think sci fi writers know aliens?

Making up imaginary scenarios is something anyone can do. Most of us have seen clowns, maybe known a few and most of us have at least minimal experience with motor vehicles.

Basing a story around a character who is Catholic, which is often a lifelong commitment, when the writer knows next to nothing about the Catholic faith is an entirely different matter. Catholicism is quite complex in many ways.

Imagination...what Stephen King calls answering "What if?" questions such as what if a car was possessed or a clown was evil (BTW, it may be nitpicking, but the clown was just one persona of many shapes taken by "It").

You'll notice that Mr. King normally sets his stories in places he is familiar with, like his native state of Maine or a hotel in Colorado where he spent some time. His characters flow from his own experiences and people he has known.

caseyquinn
12-18-2008, 09:21 PM
But your assumption is that the writer knows nothing or has no experience in being a cathlioc, which isn't the case... so i guess i am not following you on this one... I can go to work and ask ten people i work with who are cathliocs the same questions i have and i promise you they don't know. This doesnt make them non cathliocs or people who don't understand God... it simply means there is a business side of the church that most religous people don't care to learn about. They are in it for the faith, not the business side of the operational church...

Chase
12-18-2008, 09:37 PM
The why-write-what-you-know-when-we-have-TV? crowd is a tough sell, Annie. Worse, many just want what they want when they ask questions, and it's sure to be suggested here by the so called experts who are members of the I-know-it-all-because-I-watch-TV crowd.

I saw my girlfriend's daughter tell a friend that her mom is Christian but her boyfriend is Catholic. The mind boggles at the misinformation out there.

Reading many non-Catholic writers expound on Catholics is as hilarious as reading people who don't use guns writing a shoot 'em up.

caseyquinn
12-18-2008, 09:44 PM
the implication of that post is that you consider yourself a know-it-all when it comes to the topic...:poke: ...

are you a priest? somehow affiliated with the church? or have you learned what you know from reading the bible, reading what is available, listening in church and learning like the rest of us? just curious - no one i know learns from television or does research by watching television...

Chase
12-19-2008, 12:57 AM
the implication of that post is that you consider yourself a know-it-all when it comes to the topic.

Is that what you infer? Interesting. Not even close, but it explains a great deal.


. . . like the rest of us?

You're the spokesperson for the human race or just others at AW?


no one i know learns from television or does research by watching television.

Are you sure? One would think an emissary knew more people. But then kudos for writing what you know.

caseyquinn
12-19-2008, 01:00 AM
:Hug2:Thanks for the good laugh and smile - lol, i love when things get blown out of proportion and just taken a little farther then needed for no reason at all

johnnysannie
12-19-2008, 01:13 AM
The why-write-what-you-know-when-we-have-TV? crowd is a tough sell, Annie. Worse, many just want what they want when they ask questions, and it's sure to be suggested here by the so called experts who are members of the I-know-it-all-because-I-watch-TV crowd.

I saw my girlfriend's daughter tell a friend that her mom is Christian but her boyfriend is Catholic. The mind boggles at the misinformation out there.

Reading many non-Catholic writers expound on Catholics is as hilarious as reading people who don't use guns writing a shoot 'em up.

I got the "oh, you're Catholic, not Christian" thing back in the 4th grade!

Deb Kinnard
12-19-2008, 05:12 AM
I got the "oh, you're Catholic, not Christian" thing back in the 4th grade!

This makes me CRAZY! I actually had another author tell me that people had to be "rescued" from Catholicism in order to...well, I don't know what. Become Christian? Hardly.

Catholics who believe in what their church teaches are Christians. Period. I will take on anyone who says otherwise.

That said: I know some nominal Protestant folks and some nominal Catholic folks. Last fall, a friend of mine and his wife lost their only son, a beautiful 18 year old guy, healthy, all that. Jim (the dad) had never, EVER, considered himself other than an agnostic, in fact we had some very lively discussion on the topic since I'm a Christian with Pentecostal leanings. However, when they lost their boy, it was like, fly back to St. Whatever's, put the rosary over their son's heart, do the mass and the whole smash. They don't attend mass, ever. They don't sneak into the back pew of their home church at Easter or Christmas. Yet during times of stress, instantly they are Catholic.

This is a facet of modern day nominal Catholicism I've never once understood. If you're going to be an agnostic, stand up and BE it. Don't just be Catholic in foul weather. Be it all the time.

My take.

citymouse
12-19-2008, 06:23 AM
Deb wrote: "This is a facet of modern day nominal Catholicism I've never once understood. If you're going to be an agnostic, stand up and BE it. Don't just be Catholic in foul weather. Be it all the time."

Deb, this behavior is not particularly Catholic. It is, however, wholly human. The Catholic rites tend to have a strong pull especially when we find ourselves in distress. They, through some miracle of the heart, bring God closer, if only for a while.
C

johnnysannie
12-19-2008, 04:22 PM
This makes me CRAZY! I actually had another author tell me that people had to be "rescued" from Catholicism in order to...well, I don't know what. Become Christian? Hardly.

Catholics who believe in what their church teaches are Christians. Period. I will take on anyone who says otherwise.

That said: I know some nominal Protestant folks and some nominal Catholic folks. Last fall, a friend of mine and his wife lost their only son, a beautiful 18 year old guy, healthy, all that. Jim (the dad) had never, EVER, considered himself other than an agnostic, in fact we had some very lively discussion on the topic since I'm a Christian with Pentecostal leanings. However, when they lost their boy, it was like, fly back to St. Whatever's, put the rosary over their son's heart, do the mass and the whole smash. They don't attend mass, ever. They don't sneak into the back pew of their home church at Easter or Christmas. Yet during times of stress, instantly they are Catholic.

This is a facet of modern day nominal Catholicism I've never once understood. If you're going to be an agnostic, stand up and BE it. Don't just be Catholic in foul weather. Be it all the time.

My take.


I don't understand it either. I live now where Catholics are a distinct minority, very different from the urban area where I was raised that had many Catholics. I've had anti-Catholic tracts stuck under my windshield while shopping at local stores, been told Catholicism is a cult not a religion, and much, much more idiocy. It drives me crazy as well. My kids are beginning to experience the anti-Catholic prejudices as well.

Here many "Christians" vow and swear that Catholics are not Christians, which of course, we are.

Tocotin
12-19-2008, 11:47 PM
If you were Christian before the 1450s or so, you were Catholic. Simple.

You could also be Orthodox.

johnnysannie
12-20-2008, 01:11 AM
You could also be Orthodox.

It would depend on location.

Of course until 1054, everyone in Christendom WAS Catholic.

The term Great Schism may refer to one of several events in Christianity:

The East-West Schism (formally in 1054), between Western Roman Catholic and Eastern Orthodox Christianity.
The Western Schism (1378 to 1417) within the Roman Catholic Church, related to the popes in Avignon versus those in Rome.
The Old Believers schism (16661667) in the Russian Orthodox Church.

MattW
12-20-2008, 09:43 PM
It would depend on location.

Of course until 1054, everyone in Christendom WAS Catholic.

The term Great Schism may refer to one of several events in Christianity:

The East-West Schism (formally in 1054), between Western Roman Catholic and Eastern Orthodox Christianity.
The Western Schism (1378 to 1417) within the Roman Catholic Church, related to the popes in Avignon versus those in Rome.
The Old Believers schism (1666–1667) in the Russian Orthodox Church.Much of that history (and the Reformation) is also taught in Catholic schools, because it's the history of our beliefs.

I don't know how much protestants know about pre-Luther christianity, or whenever their particular flavor diverged/originated. Is it not of interest in that everything prior was tainted by whatever disagreement / different interpretation caused the split? Like some uneducated Catholics, some might believe that their form of worship actually sprung, fully formed, from Jesus himself or decisions of the Apostles (no matter who you are - it didn't).

My wife (who is Presbyterian) only knew some of the basics of the reformation - and I shared with her the kinds of grievances that had been raised, but also some of the political machinations that spurred challenges to Rome's dominance.


ETA: There's a discussion in PC&E that includes some mention of the Bible as a fixed document. (it ain't)

Deb Kinnard
12-21-2008, 03:24 AM
I can't answer for most Prods, but as kids, we were taught the history of the Christian church from the apostles' day to the present. I don't recall anyone skipping over any time period because the belief system was different than ours.

Chase
12-21-2008, 05:08 AM
Heard of Prots. So those things to herd cattle are religious, too?

Deb Kinnard
12-21-2008, 10:15 PM
LOL, Chase. I'm allowed to use a slang-word 'cause it's mine. I wouldn't use a fun-word about Catholics (except to my crit partner, who can dish it out & take it with the best of 'em) 'cause it's not mine.

Get thee to Shrine of the Holy Whapping (yes, it's real) and google religious cows. You will be enlightened.

Chase
12-21-2008, 11:09 PM
That's smart not to use "fun words" as labels for others. There's always someone tougher, faster on the draw, or who retains a better lawyer.

johnnysannie
12-22-2008, 12:15 AM
I can't answer for most Prods, but as kids, we were taught the history of the Christian church from the apostles' day to the present. I don't recall anyone skipping over any time period because the belief system was different than ours.

That's due in part to the notion held by many Protestants who disagree or simply don't believe that until the Reformation, the Catholic Church was the main thing. Often Protestants don't or won't recognize that the Apostle Peter was also the first Pope of the Roman Catholic Church. Like I think I said in an earlier post, I have known many Baptists who truly believe that John the Baptist is their founder.

As a history major in college one of my upper division courses was Renaissance and Reformation which covered all the history of Christendom. Many heated discussions were held but at least students finished the course with some different insight and understanding.