PDA

View Full Version : Am I the only one who finds this odd?



Sarpedon
12-08-2008, 06:15 PM
I rather enjoy the festive holiday images that the site has been putting up this season...but the menorah for Hannukah today seems to be taken from the Arch of Septimus Severus in Rome...showing a menorah that was taken as booty from the sack of Jerusalem.

Am I right? Am I the only one who finds this slightly disconcerting?

Higgins
12-08-2008, 06:31 PM
I rather enjoy the festive holiday images that the site has been putting up this season...but the menorah for Hannukah today seems to be taken from the Arch of Septimus Severus in Rome...showing a menorah that was taken as booty from the sack of Jerusalem.

Am I right? Am I the only one who finds this slightly disconcerting?


It is disconcerting. First of all its the wrong Menorah for the holiday. And that's the arch of Titus, not Septimus Serverus (who was an Easterner though). On the other hand, it is an image from the period of the miraculous menorah from the miraculous Temple, so perhaps in a way it makes some sense.

Sarpedon
12-08-2008, 06:38 PM
And that's the arch of Titus, not Septimus Serverus (who was an Easterner though).

Good eye.

Higgins
12-08-2008, 06:59 PM
Good eye.



The Arch of Septimus S. is pretty cool and perhaps a more typical campaign celebration.

Titus's is pretty austere...I guess he was dead when it was put up.

I wonder if Titus' Herodian/Idumean/Judean/Jewish Princess girl friend Berenice (supposedly addressed by St. Paul in the historical romance atmosphere of The Acts of the Apostles )...was still alive when they put up the arch.



http://penelope.uchicago.edu/~grout/encyclopaedia_romana/romanurbs/archtitus.html

StephanieFox
12-08-2008, 09:04 PM
I found this graphic disconcerting, too. But it's obvious that whoever put this up did this because they thought it was a Hanakkah decoration. Most non-Jews don't know the difference. It was an honest mistake and they meant well.

I think they found this graphic on the internet and thought it looked pretty cool without knowing the context.

Just for the record: A Shabbat menorah has six arms (plus the middle arm). A Hanakkah menorah has eight arms (plus the middle one).

Sarpedon
12-08-2008, 09:23 PM
I never knew that. What's the significance of the difference in number?

HeronW
12-08-2008, 09:33 PM
According to the Bible (Ex. 37:17-24) and the Talmud (Men. 28b), Bezalel made the original 7 branch Menorah from a single mass of gold for the Tabernacle (Ex. 25:31-40).

The Hanukkah 9 branch Menorah is lit to commemorate the Jewish Maccabees' miraculous victory over the Greek-Syrian army and the one-days-worth of pure oil that miraculously lasted for eight days in the Temple.

Maryn
12-08-2008, 10:24 PM
Might I suggest that one of you find two or three better images and share them with Mac, rather than note what's displeasing and/or wrong about the site's effort to be all-inclusive?

Maryn, who's had about all the Christmas music a person should have to withstand

StephanieFox
12-08-2008, 11:47 PM
Sounds like work.

Plus, we all know that Hannakkah is simply another solstice celebration from the ancient Middle East.

scarletpeaches
12-08-2008, 11:48 PM
I object to all Christmas symbolism and think we should have a picshur of either the Grinch, or Scrooge McDuck.

Williebee
12-08-2008, 11:53 PM
what, no mcdreamy pix?

I have to be honest here, I want the discussion of the differences in Menorah's to continue, just because I'm learning stuff. I wouldn't know a proper one if someone put it in my hand.

Please, find a proper one and let one of the super mods know.

scarletpeaches
12-08-2008, 11:57 PM
McDreamy? Oh no...I'm keeping those pics to myself. I don't want y'all trying to steal Colin off me.

And apologies for my last post. I didn't realise I was in the Jewish forum; I'm in the habit of clicking 'new posts' and going straight to new threads without realising exactly where they're located.

StephanieFox
12-09-2008, 12:05 AM
Here ya go...
http://www.judaica-mall.com/menorah.htm


Scroll through the pages to get an idea. As you can see, the variety is astounding. All you need is an 8-branched candleabra with a ninth candle place for a candle. The ninth candle is called a schamash (servant) and is used to light the others. The menorah itself is not 'sacred'. It's just a candle holder. However, the light is special and should not be used as a room light or to read by, etc.

Remember that Hanakkah is a fairly minor holiday, unless you are a kid in N. America. It is not the religious or cultural equal to Christmas, which seems to overtake everything.




From the website:\
Hanukkah Tip: When the rabbis of the Talmud instructed the Jewish people to light Hanukkah Menorahs (Chanukiah) for eight days, it was primarily for the purpose of pirsumei nisa, publicizing the miracle that occurred on Hanukkah. Therefore, maximum exposure is the goal. Ideally, the menorah should be placed outside by the front door facing the mezuzah. If that is not practical, then the menorah should be placed by a window that can be easily seen by passersby on the street or sidewalk. If that is not possible or practical then the menorah should be lit in the room of the house where most people congregate. Whether candles or oil with wicks are used, the flames should last at least thirty minutes and be lit as soon as three stars appear in the sky.

There were times and places when this practice could be dangerous.

donroc
12-09-2008, 12:17 AM
A good novel about the Maccabees is My Glorious Brothers by Howard Fast.

Max Dimont in his Jews, God, and History referred to the event as a left-wing peasant revolt lead by the Maccabees against the Greeks and assimilated city Jews. Ironically, in a short time, the Hasmoneans acquired all the vices of Greek and Roman courts.

Still, the revolt is said by historians to have saved Judiasm from extinction.

MacAllister
12-09-2008, 03:10 AM
I'm the one who puts those up, and I'm always hugely grateful for suggestions. I used a Menorah because I had several requests for one last year. I'm also looking for images from other traditions.

I used that specific Menorah because I think it's beautiful, as well as historically significant -- and, well, I'm pig-ignorant about Hanukkah tradition, frankly, except for having heard the dreidel song at some point, as a child.

Don't ever hesitate to drop me a note, though, if you've got concerns. Absolutely no offense is intended, and I'm more than willing to go and change the image.

StephanieFox
12-09-2008, 03:15 AM
Don't forget a solstice image for the Pagans. Suns, suns with evergreen trees, Gods with antlers....


For Hanakkah, my link will give you a lot of menorahs from which to choose and of course, there's always the dreidel.

MacAllister
12-09-2008, 03:20 AM
Thanks, Stephanie - and my abject apologies to anyone who was disconcerted or offended. I absolutely intended no offense, and I'm sincerely sorry if I caused any.

dclary
12-09-2008, 03:29 AM
Why does the menorah look like a wreath with a five-pointed star in it?

:D


(I really like the various holiday images we've had this holiday season. I can't wait to see what Mac does for January 8th!)






((That's King Day here in America: Elvis' and Dclary's birthday))


:D


(That's right.... Jesus, Elvis, Dclary... All the greats were Capricorns. :D :D

crazynance
01-13-2009, 04:51 AM
According to the Bible (Ex. 37:17-24) and the Talmud (Men. 28b), Bezalel made the original 7 branch Menorah from a single mass of gold for the Tabernacle (Ex. 25:31-40).

The Hanukkah 9 branch Menorah is lit to commemorate the Jewish Maccabees' miraculous victory over the Greek-Syrian army and the one-days-worth of pure oil that miraculously lasted for eight days in the Temple.

I LOVE that miracle! :D Our great and mighty God, supplying our needs.