How do you find the dates for a court case?

Plot Device

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I came across this citation for some court ruling:

"We are slaves and own absolutely, nothing not even what we think are our children." (Tillman v. Roberts 108 So. 62, Van Koten v. Van Koten 154 N.E. 146, Senate Document 43 & 73rd Congress 1 Session, Wynehammer v. People 13 N.R. REP 378, 481)

This was a rather intriguing thing to read (not to mention creepy). So I decided to look up the year of the ruling, and the state of origin.

So I tried the following Google searches:

"Tillman v Roberts"

And I got this:

“The primary control and custody of infants is with the government.” Tillman v. Roberts (108 So. 62, 214 Ala. 71)

Which was also intriguing and creepy. But it still gave me no date or state of origin. So I Googled the following:

"The primary control and custody"

"108 So. 62, 214 Ala. 71"

And I kept finding the same mindless quotation mindlessly quoted in dozens of web sites, blogs, message forums, etc. And nobody on any one of those dozens of web sites that are all unanimously quoting any of this creepy stuff seems to know the date or the state. They all just keep doing a mindless copy-paste of the exact same out-of-context snippet to launch arguments about how we do not have true legal custody of our own children. So my efforts to get to the bottom of the quote are being thwarted by what I shall here call "viral mindlessness" or even "viral copy-pasting out of context."

Can anyone here with legal knowledge tell me about this part right here:

(Tillman v. Roberts 108 So. 62, Van Koten v. Van Koten 154 N.E. 146, Senate Document 43 & 73rd Congress 1 Session, Wynehammer v. People 13 N.R. REP 378, 481)

or this part right here:

Tillman v. Roberts (108 So. 62, 214 Ala. 71)

to help me crack the code of where I can find the date and the state of origin?
 

Bubastes

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The "Ala." means it was a case in Alabama's Supreme Court.

Based on the volume number (214) of the Alabama case reporter, I think the case was decided around 1926.
 
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willfulone

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Tillman V. Roberts. 108 So. 62:

"The primary control and custody of infants is with the government."

Goes back (and there is a ton of weird stuff related to this and some is hard to see how/where it applies, understand - but..it originates - IT APPEARS) to:

The US is a Federal corporation as defined in 28 U.S.C. part 3002 (15)(A).

The corporation holds all rights and rule over its "employees" - ie people. And one can find all sort of info wherein the theorists claim this means we are all slaves to the govt corp. And, as slaves (invoking all slave laws) our property (children considered mere possessions) too. Thus the govt is the real custodian of our children.

Van Koten 154 N.E. 146, Senate Document 43 & 73rd Congress 1 Session:

"Marriage is a civil contract to which there are three parties-the husband, the wife and the state."

Here again, the stuff I found all relates back to the starting point of the US being a corporation and thus holds rule over all its "employees".

Not sure exactly what you are looking for.

It is a daunting search to look through all the senate and congress reports and case laws. Additionally, it is difficult to research all the applications/intrepretations of the laws from legal eagles who post on the net about such.

Seems most of the info on blogs and the like are extreme theories to apply damaging claims against the govt in an attempt to make the people reading the blogs think they are all slaves.

I have a ton of links, but did not wish to burden the thread. If you wish them, PM and I will forward the reading material to you.

Although, the research took so long, you may have your answer by now.

Good luck finding what you wish to read up on.

Christine
 
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ajkjd01

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You might try looking up the Alabama Supreme Court website. State supreme court websites sometimes have free access to decisions on their website if it's a published decision, but that depends on how far back their online database goes.

You might also try www.findlaw.com

It's a free legal database that sometimes has decisions online. Again, it depends on how far back their database goes. If you look under the case name and citation, you'll generally find the date that the court issued it's decision.

Otherwise, a quick phone call to your county law library might also give you a quick answer.
 

Plot Device

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Wow. A lot of great responses.

So the period of history for all this is the 1920's through to the 1930's. And it seems to be primarilly set in Alabama.

Okay. THAT is what I needed to know.



One comment from me to Christine:

Yes, the vast slew of web sites who are all mindlessly quoting those court statements are conspiracy web sites. I constantly run into them during my studies. Which means I am forever trudging through mountains of sillyness to get to the one serious piece of data I am after.

Thank you, Chtristine for your especially detailed reply.
 

Carole

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I can pull the whole cases, if you like. Here is a little info:

21 Ala.App. 241, 108 So. 61

Court of Appeals of Alabama
TILLMAN
v.
WALTERS.
3 Div. 508
June 30, 1925
Rehearing Denied Aug. 4, 1925
On Mandate Jan. 12, 1926
Rehearing Denied Jan. 26, 1926

Appeal from Circuit Court, Montgomery County; Walter B. Jones, Judge.

Petition of Lisbon Tillman for habeas corpus to Elijah Walters for custody of a child. From a judgment denying the writ, petitioner appeals. Reversed and rendered after mandate.

Certiorari granted by Supreme Court in Tillman v. Walters, 108 So. 62; certiorari denied by Supreme Court in Tillman v. Walters, 108 So. 67.

_________________________

323 Ill. 323, 154 N.E. 146, 50 A.L.R. 347

Supreme Court of Illinois.
VAN KOTEN
v.
VAN KOTEN.
No. 17435.
Oct. 28, 1926.
Rehearing Denied Dec. 10, 1926.

Error to Circuit Court, Champaign County; Franklin H. Boggs, Judge.

Bill by Ida Van Koten against Clifford E. Van Koten and others. Decree dismissing the bill, and plaintiff brings error.

Reversed and remanded.

_______________________________
 
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Carole

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Also, you can Google the case citation and get an idea for it (And don't trust speculative sites). Once you have the actual citation, it will give you an idea of where to look to find the actual case. Many colleges have very good law libraries, and once you know how to do the research, it's not difficult. Everything is in code, so to speak, and it follows the same pattern for different sources. For your citation, 108 So. 62, the first number, 108, is your volume number, the abbreviated letters, So. , will be the source (In this case, it's West's Southern Reporter) and the third number, 62, is the page number, or beginning page number, of where it is found in that source.