Vampire Lore: Must have, cliche', etc. for a Reader

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thethinker42

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(I will preface this by saying that the purpose of this thread is not to rip on any particular writer - I've been playing with a vampire WIP myself, and this question has been nagging at me all day. Mods, feel free to move this if it belongs in another forum.)

In another forum, someone mentioned that a particular vampire-fic author was not a reader of vampire fiction, so she came up with her own "vampire lore" ... some of which "worked" for some people, some didn't. Obviously all writers of vampire fiction (as with any fiction) take their own liberties to an extent, and vampire legends vary significantly from culture to culture, but you tend to see at least some common threads, some wild variations with varying degrees of success, etc.

As a reader, are there aspects of vampires in fiction that are, for you:
  1. Cliche, overdone, downright annoying?
  2. Pretty much expected, but if absent, wouldn't hinder your ability to suspend your disbelief?
  3. Mandatory? Without this, a vampire simply isn't a vampire, you just can't suspend your disbelief, etc?
  4. Stretching it, but acceptable?
  5. Um, NO, that doesn't even make sense, WTF?
Can be anything -- sensitivity to sunlight, no reflection, high-collared capes, sleeping in coffins, etc.

Something a specific author did, or that Hollywood does, or that most authors do. Anything.

What could you accept and roll with? What made you stop and say "WTF?" or throw the book down/shut off the movie?
 

katiemac

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I'll admit to not being a big reader of vampire fiction. If there would be anything that would throw me off about the "realism" of vampires, beyond the obvious undead and drinking blood requirement, it would their reactions to religious (Christian) icons.

Since the Catholic Church perpetrated a lot of the vampire myth, I think the idea that vampires are inherently evil should stand. This doesn't mean you couldn't have a good/morally ambiguous vampire now and again, but consider it a body versus mind (soul?). The mind is okay but the body still rejects the crucifix, the church (if they can go in a church they are at least affected by being in one) and holy water. Churches and holy water aren't necessarily unforgivable, but the crucifix is a deal breaker for me--unless you have a super-cool explanation.

Also, aversion to sunlight is a big one. I like my vampires combustible. A stake through the heart should absolutely kill them, too. There might be other ways to die but that's kind of standard.

Neglecting coffins, dirt of the homeland or aversion to garlic is okay with me. So is neglecting their inability to enter a residence without being invited, but I did always like that one, as it goes back to have a priest bless the house--but not too many people have blessed homes these days.

If your vampire has no reflection but appears on video or in a photograph, then color me confused.
 
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MissLadyRae

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I'm a big vampire fan and I'm currently working on a WIP series myself and it can get a bit tricky. I'm a big Anne Rice fan (first 3 in the series) and what I liked about her vampires is that she created a whole world and a society with them. I'm not a big fan of the drooling monster killer machine vampires (not too interesting to me). I'm also burnt out on the vampire bad boy heroes in most romances (mainly because they're starting to read the same). I like complex vampires, I guess you could say. A lot of the modern types have strayed a bit from the old tropes of vampire lore so I'm liking the old stake in the heart, beheading, burns in sunlight, frozen in time but lives forever kind of vampires myself.

If you're looking for some good background info on vampire lore across pop culture, someone pointed me to TVTropes.com's entry on vampires which is great to see what's been done and what can be tweaked for your own world. Our own AW resident Cathy Clamp and her writing partner Cee are mentioned in the literature section. :)

Other great entries are Vampire Bites Suck and So You Want to Write a Vampire Novel (awesome page for resources and interesting entries near the bottom). Just a little warning, this site is highly addictive so you may be 'researching' awhile. ;)
 

dpaterso

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Rigid adherence to the Goth vampire template can get a little boring, the makeup, the baring of fangs, the "hypnotic" look that lures or freezes on command.

The master/sire who telepathically controls or is in contact with his/her minions, and/or the "kill the master vampire and his minions will perish" angle, seem overdone.

I'm not hot on vampires morphing into giant bats or turning into smoke or any of that stuff. They already have battlefield superiority, no need to give them overwhelming powers.

Buffy took the clichés and revamped them :)tongue) to make them clever and witty. Van Helsing was a hell of a fun romp (I watched this again only yesterday while waiting for a heating engineer to show up) but the clichés felt like clichés and gave the good guys easy solutions, and easy solutions aren't so interesting.

I like contemporary vampires to be intelligent and agenda-driven, not living some sad aimless existence while waiting to meet their next cheeseburger victim. Anyone remember the stylish Ultraviolet from 1998? Now these vampires had a plan.

I like it when historical vampire fantasy veers just a little from the well-beaten path to add something different to the "vampire legend" while remaining within the bounds of audience expectation. Break that expectation and you'll disappoint your readers. Stick to it too close and the same thing might happen.

/opinion

-Derek
 
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I'll admit to not being a big reader of vampire fiction. If there would be anything that would throw me off about the "realism" of vampires, beyond the obvious undead and drinking blood requirement, it would their reactions to religious (Christian) icons.

Since the Catholic Church perpetrated a lot of the vampire myth, I think the idea that vampires are inherently evil should stand. This doesn't mean you couldn't have a good/morally ambiguous vampire now and again, but consider it a body versus mind (soul?). The mind is okay but the body still rejects the crucifix, the church (if they can go in a church they are at least affected by being in one) and holy water. Churches and holy water aren't necessarily unforgivable, but the crucifix is a deal breaker for me--unless you have a super-cool explanation.

The super-cool explanation could be that not every Christian believes Jesus was crucified on a cross. Some say it was a torture stake.

See, I'm not a Catholic - I was, but am not any longer and things like holy water never made any sense to me. It's H20. Big deal. God doesn't need water to act. He's strong enough in himself.

I prefer it when a vampire doesn't react to a crucifix; it's just a bit of wood after all. Same as a church is just a building.

Also, aversion to sunlight is a big one. I like my vampires combustible. A stake through the heart should absolutely kill them, too. There might be other ways to die but that's kind of standard.

Sunlight, kinda agree with that one. There should be some form of photosensitivity, but stake through the heart? That'd kill anyone, never mind a vampire. Standard, though? Meh.

Neglecting coffins, dirt of the homeland or aversion to garlic is okay with me. So is neglecting their inability to enter a residence without being invited, but I did always like that one, as it goes back to have a priest bless the house--but not too many people have blessed homes these days.

If your vampire has no reflection but appears on video or in a photograph, then color me confused.

None of the above bothers me either. When it comes to reflections, I think, "Dude. Reflections depend on light bouncing off your body, which you still have. The soul is in question here, not your physical body."

After all, when we look in a mirror it's not our soul we see, but our flesh and blood being.
 

thethinker42

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Well, yes, trust scarletpeaches to come wandering in with an opinion.

So now we have one in favor of the holy relic aversion, and one opposed.

Anyone else?
 
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Rigid adherence to the Goth vampire template can get a little boring, the makeup, the baring of fangs, the "hypnotic" look that lures or freezes on command.

I agree. I certainly don't think vampires are overdone, but with each new novel, movie or series which comes out, there needs to be a fresh twist. A believable one, mind you, which is hard to pull off given that we're talking about creatures who don't exist.

The master/sire who telepathically controls or is in contact with his/her minions, and/or the "kill the master vampire and his minions will perish" angle, seem overdone.

I'm not hot on vampires morphing into giant bats or turning into smoke or any of that stuff. They already have battlefield superiority, no need to give them overwhelming powers.

The above is something I've always had a problem with. Telepathy? Hmm. Don't like it. And as for morphing into vampire bats or puffs of smoke, I think the author should limit him- or herself to the number of laws of physics they break.

It's funny because the manuscript I have just about at submission stage is about shapeshifters. But that's their one big thing. To have vampires be blooddrinking, immortal shapeshifters as well, for me, that's a myth too far...

I like contemporary vampires to be intelligent and agenda-driven, not living some sad aimless existence while waiting to meet their next cheeseburger victim. Anyone remember the stylish Ultraviolet from 1998? Now these vampires had a plan.


And I like it when vampires enjoy killing. Why all the angst?
 
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My opinion on crucifixes:

God would allow such an aberration of nature as vampires to exist, but he would decline to use his angels to defeat them and instead invest all his power in two pieces of wood at right angles to each other with a model of a dying man on them?
 

dpaterso

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If your vampire has no reflection but appears on video or in a photograph, then color me confused.
?? Got an example?

Not trying to fixate upon the abovementioned Ultraviolet but one of the things I liked lots about this series was the care taken to establish that the vampire antagonists didn't reflect, couldn't be filmed, couldn't record their voices on electronic equipment. In order to make a phone call, a vampire had to physically type on a laptop so his words could be software-vocalized into the connected phone. The robotic voice further underlined the inhuman aspect of the typist. Thoughtful details like that score points with me.

God would allow such an aberration of nature as vampires to exist, but he would decline to use his angels to defeat them and instead invest all his power in two pieces of wood at right angles to each other with a model of a dying man on them?
I don't use it myself, but the vampire (creature of evil) aversion to religious symbology (representing good) doesn't seem unreasonable.

Tho' I'm reminded of Brit comedy stalwart Alfie Bass in The Fearless Vampire Killers -- after his character turns into a vampire and is threatened with a crucifix, he chuckles and says, "Oy vey, have you got the wrong vampire."

-Derek
 

vfury

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I'm currently planning a vampire WiP set in pseudo-Puritan-ish times, so the religious cliches/beliefs are fun to play with. I liked the idea that a crucifix would only deter a vampire if the person using against them had belief in the power it symbolised, so it would be worthless to an atheist being chased by a vampire, for example.

I prefer to keep shapeshifting to shapeshifters, but I like the idea of them being able to work with certain animals if there's a somewhat plausible explanation.

My vampire is not particularly angst-ridden, either. She's come to accept what she is and isn't bothered about killing for her own survival. The fragile alliance she and the nearby humans have is for everyone's benefit, including her own. If she's going to manage to not end up destroyed for a couple of thousand years, she's at least going to make sure her time is reasonably comfortable.

I like the idea of modern vampires being the money behind large corporations, or having wealth they just let gather interest--it's not like they're going to wander around being poor for who knows how long.
 
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Another thing I don't like is the vampire falling in love with the female protag. I mean, he's lived forever and only NOW finds his one true love?

And she's usually a teenage temptress, with no knowledge of the world at all. SO attractive to a thousand year old immortal, huh?
 

dpaterso

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And she's usually a teenage temptress, with no knowledge of the world at all. SO attractive to a thousand year old immortal, huh?
So attractive to all men. Dead or alive, we're pigs.

-Derek
 

BarbaraKE

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I'm with ScarletPeaches on the whole crucifix thing. I find the sight of a vampire cringing away from a cross to be comical.

I also don't like the 'victims turns into vampire' stuff. It would take them about a month to overrun the world. Even just 'selected victims turn into vampires' is iffy. It's just a question of numbers and time. (Let's say each vampire can create only one new vampire every ten years. In 200 years, there would be over 4 million of them.)

And I don't like anything that makes them too easy to discover. If your vampire is walking around with inch-long fangs, people will notice. Same if they don't reflect (which, IMHO, is silly anyway).

And I don't like the whole turning into mist/bats/wolf/rats.
 

thethinker42

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Another thing I don't like is the vampire falling in love with the female protag. I mean, he's lived forever and only NOW finds his one true love?

And she's usually a teenage temptress, with no knowledge of the world at all. SO attractive to a thousand year old immortal, huh?

I went the other way: I have a male protag fall in love with my vampire in chapter 2.

Then she kills him.

In chapter 2.

Oops...
 
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Would it be love, though? Would you want to stay with her forever and ever amen, or would you just want to love her long time and move on to the next nubile maiden? :D

Oh. And for once, I want to read a vampire novel where the female MC isn't turned into one herself at the end.
 

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1. Cliche, overdone, downright annoying?

Staying overnight in a haunted castle and finding a vampire? :)
Vampire in love with a human, but doesn't want to sire him/her.
Vampire with a soul (don't try and beat Whedon, please)

2. Pretty much expected, but if absent, wouldn't hinder your ability to suspend your disbelief?

Drinking blood, sensitivity to sunlight, ability to sire other vampires. The vampire can't complain that he's lonely, because he can make other vampires.

3. Mandatory? Without this, a vampire simply isn't a vampire, you just can't suspend your disbelief, etc?

I personally believe that any vampire that doesn't have the hunger for blood, the cocaine-addiction like craving for it, isn't really a vampire. Just a guy with fangs that sucks blood. If he doesn't have the craving, then being a vampire is actually a win in my book!

4. Stretching it, but acceptable?

Vampires decaying over long stretches of time? I thought they were immortal?

5. Um, NO, that doesn't even make sense, WTF?

Vampires don't make sense in the first place. From this point on, anything can be made to make sense. Vampires VS. Aliens anyone?
 

gypsyscarlett

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My opinion on crucifixes:

God would allow such an aberration of nature as vampires to exist, but he would decline to use his angels to defeat them and instead invest all his power in two pieces of wood at right angles to each other with a model of a dying man on them?

I liked the bit in "The Fearless Vampire Killers" when someone flashes a crucifix at a Rabbi Vampire. He just laughs and says something like, "That's not gonna work on me." :D
 

maestrowork

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For those stuck with the Christian vampires, try looking into other cultures, such as the Chinese vampires. They share very similar things (inherently evil, drink blood, undead, etc.) but at the same time, rather different.
 

dpaterso

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I also don't like the 'victims turns into vampire' stuff. It would take them about a month to overrun the world. Even just 'selected victims turn into vampires' is iffy. It's just a question of numbers and time. (Let's say each vampire can create only one new vampire every ten years. In 200 years, there would be over 4 million of them.)
Good point, and certainly something that should be addressed, one way or the other. <quick search> Yes, I did address it. :)

-Derek
 

tehuti88

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Without reading others' opinions on the matter:

IMO: A vampire is a being that feeds off something at the expense of another being. It can be blood, it can be "life essence," it can be sanity, it can be whatever, just as long as they're a parasite.

Aside from that I'm willing to accept almost anything in a vampire story. So the vampire in this story can see his reflection? So what? Chances are that what's considered "normal" in one culture (e. g., no reflection) isn't the norm among vampires in another culture. And there's always artistic license. *shrug*

The catch is, I don't read vampire fiction for the very reason that it is ALL SO OVERDONE! So there are "rules" or "standards" regarding vampire fic, yes? Well...those rules/standards are the reason why, when I see the word "vampire," I turn away. The very concept of the vampire has become trite because nobody wants to go against the grain too much.

More people need to shrug off the norms/standards and do something more original. It's time for a vampire revolution. Then maybe that would get me reading.
 
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...The catch is, I don't read vampire fiction for the very reason that it is ALL SO OVERDONE!...

If you never read it, how do you know it's overdone?

The truth is, it isn't.

...when I see the word "vampire," I turn away...

And that is your misfortune.

...The very concept of the vampire has become trite because nobody wants to go against the grain too much...

That's what this thread is about.

...More people need to shrug off the norms/standards and do something more original. It's time for a vampire revolution. Then maybe that would get me reading.

How are you going to know the tide is turning unless you read vampire fiction?
 

tehuti88

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I don't feel I should have to justify every point of my opinion, since that's just what it is, an opinion, and they were asked for. Others gave their opinions, I gave mine.

If you never read it, how do you know it's overdone?

The truth is, it isn't.

And that is your misfortune.

That's what this thread is about.

How are you going to know the tide is turning unless you read vampire fiction?

Those are YOUR opinions. Just as valid as mine are. How can you rightly say what is a misfortune to me and what isn't? I don't feel misfortunate in the least about this. *shrug*

I've read vampire fiction in the past. I've tried to read some recently. And my points were already made in my other post, so I shan't repeat myself. I stand by my opinions.
 

thethinker42

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The catch is, I don't read vampire fiction for the very reason that it is ALL SO OVERDONE! So there are "rules" or "standards" regarding vampire fic, yes? Well...those rules/standards are the reason why, when I see the word "vampire," I turn away. The very concept of the vampire has become trite because nobody wants to go against the grain too much.

More people need to shrug off the norms/standards and do something more original. It's time for a vampire revolution. Then maybe that would get me reading.

That's actually why I started the thread. I don't read vampire fic myself, and I'm curious what people's views are. Thank you for yours.

I do find a lot of it has been overdone, and a lot of "new" things just DON'T work. So I'm trying to find a happy medium: something fresh that still passes as "vampire".
 
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