Not for the squeamish

Barb D · Nov 7, 2008

I've found lots of references to tongue amputation as a method of punishment or torture throughout history. (Apparently Saddam Hussein used it.) But I can't find anything about what, if anything, was done medically to help the person survive or in any way recover from it.

In my case, it's the 16th century. The female victim has been brought to a nunnery, with a reasonably trained hospitaler and all kinds of medicinal herbs, etc. at her disposal. What could have been done to help the victim?

Also, how does one eat or drink without a tongue?

In the absence of better knowledge, I have written:

"Sister Martha busied herself making some kind of solution of herbs and ale, “to numb the pain, and clean it some,” she said. She carefully wiped the inside of Margarethe’s mouth with it. "

I have no clue what to say about the eating/drinking. I may just ignore the topic.

Maryn · Nov 7, 2008

I read a book set in the 1960s in which a character had his tongue amputated. The open end was stitched, like any serious cut might be.

The character did have some trouble manipulating food in his mouth and choked more easily, but he could still swallow. Those who cared for him turned his food into the equivalent of baby food, making it moist and soft by mashing or pureeing, adding liquid as necessary.

You might want to do some research on herbal remedies for stopping bleeding, for preventing infection, and for dulling pain, although what I know of history suggests that a lot of pain was simply endured, often with the help of alcohol.

I couldn't tell you the book, but somewhere I've picked up the notion that wood ash has been used to stem bleeding.

Maryn, who had to come once she saw your subject line

Mumbleduck · Nov 7, 2008

Hmmm! I too couldn't resist the thread title.
I'm sure you've done it already, but all Google seems to turn up is a bunch of stories about a dog who had to have his tongue amputated.

All I really know is that there are arteries and veins in the tongue, so there would be a lot of blood - perhaps cauterization would be an option? Also, the tongue is a muscle, so I would expect that what was left of it would heal pretty quickly - though that doesn't factor in the risk of infection, what with your mouth (and the 16th century) being a pretty dirty place.
It was mentioned in another thread, but honey was widely used as an antibiotic, so perhaps your hospitaler could use that in some way?

Sarpedon · Nov 7, 2008

I recall reading in an old chinese book that red hot pincers were used. Presumably this cauterized the blood vessels.

I don't think they really cared much if they died afterwards.

Traditional chinese punishments make for hair-raising reading.

LaurieD · Nov 7, 2008

Had a minute so I poked around the web - according to Wikipedia, suture ligatures were discovered around the 10th century and prior to that cauterization was used for any persistent bleeding wound. Couldn't find anything useful with regards to infection or pain, until the 1800's anyway. Hope this helps

Barb D · Nov 7, 2008

Thanks to all you non-squeams.

Yes, I did see a lot of google results about the poor dog. There was a chameleon, too. Yeouch!

Thanks for the info about the sutures. I'll let Sister Martha stitch Margarethe's tongue, which was cut with a sharp shell. (Not my idea; blame Hans Christian Andersen for that one.) Fortunately Margarethe swam through a really cold ocean for a while, which I would think would have helped stop some of the bleeding.

We're not in a Disney movie any more, Toto.

Kathie Freeman · Nov 8, 2008

Whether or not the victim could still swallow would depend on how much of the tongue was removed. If it was for punishment only the front part would be amputated, leaving the victim with a severe speech impediment and difficulty in swallowing. If the entire tongue was removed, swallowing solids would be impossible and the victim would have to subsist on a liquid diet. Even now, persons who have had cancer of the tongue almost always have a stomach tube for nutrition.

Barb D · Nov 8, 2008

Kathie Freeman said:
Whether or not the victim could still swallow would depend on how much of the tongue was removed. If it was for punishment only the front part would be amputated, leaving the victim with a severe speech impediment and difficulty in swallowing. If the entire tongue was removed, swallowing solids would be impossible and the victim would have to subsist on a liquid diet. Even now, persons who have had cancer of the tongue almost always have a stomach tube for nutrition.

How do they even swallow the liquids? Just drink like normal and toss it back? Could this work for soft foods like apple sauce?

In The Little Mermaid the purpose of having her tongue cut out was so that she would have no voice, so I'm going to assume that HCA meant for the entire tongue to be gone.

selkn.asrai · Nov 8, 2008

If the torturer used a hot knife, the wound would cauterize (and they would likely do that, seeing as, well, what's the point of torturing a person if he's going to die almost immediately? The cauterized wound would be doubly agonizing.) Otherwise, it would bleed out, and the likelihood is that it would do so fairly quickly, seeing as the tongue has a number of major veins, and is the strongest muscle in the human body. Much blood.

Kathie Freeman · Nov 9, 2008

Removing the tongue would not eliminate the voice, only the ability to pronounce certain letters and dipthongs. The voice comes from the larnyx, and removing that would cause any attempt at swallowing to result in drowning or choking. With the tongue removed, swallowing even soft foods would be nearly impossible unless they were thinned out and poured into the mouth with the head tilted back.

Not for the squeamish

Barb D

Maryn

At Sea

Mumbleduck

Quackin' up.

Sarpedon

LaurieD

aka Skwirrel

Barb D

Kathie Freeman

That Crazy Cat Lady

Barb D

selkn.asrai

Rawr.

Kathie Freeman

That Crazy Cat Lady