The Obama Birth Certificate Discussion (split off)

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Until Barack Hussein Obama II released HIS official Hawaiian birth certificate as a stamped, seal-affixed paper copy and not an unrecognized, non-authorized, non-sealed electronic certificate of live birth of dubious origin and thus proves he was born on U.S. soil, I do not recognize him as a natural citizen of the USA and therefore understand him to an illegal candidate who fraudulently claims the title of President-Elect.

I want to believe. I want change. But if the "first" gets there by deceit, then it is not real. And worse, the fraud will only reaffirm the biases of those who think any one who is non-white cannot achieve honestly.

If there is nothing to hide, then why seal the records in Hawaii and Kenya?

I would love to be proven wrong by Obama. I would dearly cling to the belief he is the new FDR/JFK and MLKjr all rolled into The One who will make the USA great again.

But until the Electoral College votes on December 15th and the result is tallied and certified on January 8th, Obama is only a projected winner subject to verification of the response to the Berg lawsuit due on December 1st, NOT President.
 
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blacbird

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But until the Electoral College votes on December 15th and the result is tallied and certified on January 8th, Obama is only a projected winner subject to verification of the response to the Berg lawsuit due on December 1st, NOT President.

And Iowa is certain to vote for McCain. Yeah, we understand.

Have you seen Bigfoot yet?

caw
 

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Until Barack Hussein Obama II released HIS official Hawaiian birth certificate as a stamped, seal-affixed paper copy and not an unrecognized, non-authorized, non-sealed electronic certificate of live birth of dubious origin and thus proves he was born on U.S. soil, I do not recognize him as a natural citizen of the USA and therefore understand him to an illegal candidate who fraudulently claims the title of President-Elect.
My favorite theory is that Barack senior is not his father, but his father is in fact, Malcolm X! And that is why the records are sealed, because the man doesn't want you to know who the real baby daddy is.
 

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Actually, the birth certificate thing is over. Hawaii produced official documentation. Berg then tried to argue that when Obama's mother remarried an Indonesian citizen, Obama became a naturalized Indonesian citizen by default.

But that's not what any of the relevant laws say.

The Immigration and Nationality Act of 1952, section 349 (a), provided:

“From and after the effective date of this Act a person who is a national of the United States whether by birth or naturalization, shall lose his nationality by -- (1) obtaining naturalization in a foreign state upon his own application, upon an application filed in his behalf by a parent, or duly authorized agent, or through the naturalization of a parent having legal custody of such person: Provided, That nationality shall not be lost by any person under this section as the result of the naturalization of a parent or parents while such person is under the age of twenty-one years, or as the result of naturalization obtained on behalf of a person under twenty-one years of age by a parent, guardian, or duly authorized agent, unless such person shall fail to enter the United States to establish a permanent residence prior to his twenty-fifth birthday: ....”

Section 355 of that Act provided that:

“A person having United States nationality, who is under the age of twenty-one and whose residence is in a foreign state with or under the legal custody of a parent who hereafter loses United States nationality under section 350 or 352 of this title, shall also lose his United States nationality if such person has or acquires the nationality of such foreign state: Provided, That, in such case, United States nationality shall not be lost as the result of loss of United States nationality by the parent unless and until the person attains the age of twenty-five years without having established his residence in the United States.”

Berg is an utter crackpot, Joy.
 

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And Iowa is certain to vote for McCain. Yeah, we understand.

Have you seen Bigfoot yet?

caw

caw

Iowa was called for Obama with 1% of the vote in less than 6 minutes after the polls closed. Iowa ended up being listed in the Obama column but the [strike]final tally[/strike] current (raw) results have a difference of less than 5,000 votes--the same as Bush over Gore in 2000. Also the same count that was denied a recount in 2000.

But a personal attack instead of reading my follow-up post is a good way to ingratiate yourself to the Yeti crowd. I'll bet you believed the suit in the icebox too.

Iowa has not voted in the electoral college for the next president. But there is no longer a Democratic majority among the delegates.
 
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ErylRavenwell

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caw

Iowa was called for Obama with 1% of the vote in less than 6 minutes after the polls closed. Iowa ended up being listed in the Obama column but the final tally had a difference of less than 5,000 votes--the same as Bush over Gore in 2000. Also the same count that was denied a recount in 2000.

.

I think you've got to back that statement with a source, because I have before me the latest result on Iowa, where Obama is winning by 9% margin.
 
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Actually, the birth certificate thing is over. Hawaii produced official documentation. Berg then tried to argue that when Obama's mother remarried an Indonesian citizen, Obama became a naturalized Indonesian citizen by default.

But that's not what any of the relevant laws say.

Berg is an utter crackpot, Joy.

I'm aware Berg is a frivolous lawsuit filer. However there are currently 25 lawsuits over the legal eligibility of Obama's candidacy. A crackpot is not necessarily wrong.

If "the birth certificate were over" the Obama campaign would not now have to officially respond to Berg's suit by filing the physical paperwork with the Supreme Court by December 1st.

Hawaii did NOT produce official documentation. An anonymous state official claimed to have see "a certificate" which "looks the same as the copy online". They could not verify it without showing the actual certificate--which Obama refuses to allow be made public.

The Indonesian citizenship is interesting given that Obama traveled to Pakistan on an Indonesian passport in 1980. But the real issue is that he was not born on U.S. or soil that the U.S. [then] had legal jurisdiction over (such as McCain in the Panama Canal Zone).

Obama's own websites list him as "a native citizen".
My brother was born in Nebraska because Omaha had a Neonatal Intensive Care Unit (NICU). He has a Nebraska birth certificate and an Iowan baptismal certificate. Either is accepted as the base certificate for proving his identity. He is a native son of Iowa but he was a born denizen of Nebraska.

I do believe that Obama's underage pregnant mother lied to her parents about her marital status and had her son's birth registered in Hawaii a week after his birth in Kenya and that her parents continued to let Obama believe he was born in the USA. When or if they ever told him "the truth" or what was their version of it is highly debatable. But by the time the styled Barack H. Obama jr ran for the US Senate seat in Illinois, he knew there was an issue proving he was a natural-born US citizen and having been tapped to be the First Black President, was actively covering up that fact.

I would dearly love to be proven completely wrong (contrary to opinion I do prefer Obama to McCain politically) but the only way anyone--especially the Supreme Court will be satisfied as his legal, natural citizenship status is by allowing the State of Hawaii to release whatever certificate they have pertaining to Obama's birth.

An official, stamped, sealed Birth Certificate which was signed by a Hawaiian doctor confirms he is eligible to be the next President of the United States--no matter what father may or may not be listed.
An official Certificate of Live Birth confirms his birth was registered with the State of Hawaii and his exact birth certificate most likely was issued elsewhere by the actual country of his birth.

Obama co-sponsored the Congressional Act which formally recognized McCain's status as "a natural-born citizen" as defined in the Constitution of the U.S. for eligibility as a candidate for President of the U.S.

Were it that Obama was born in Hawaii and whoever lied for whatever reasons about the father or race or nationality listed, he is still eligible to be the President-elect and can formally enact a bill (which I'm sure would sail through Congress with McCain's public approval) which specifically defines a "natural-born citizen" and this chaos need not happen again.

But if he was not born on U.S. soil--and even though he might not have intended fraud, Obama would not have been an eligible candidate and thus would forfeit his Senate seat and presumed status as President-Elect. As he said about his half-aunt who was found to be living illegally in the US in public housing yet able to contribute to his campaign: "this is a nation of laws and they must be followed." One can't pick and chose the rules."

I don't want the first real black President of the United States to be a deliberate fraud. I want him to be the President through honest means.
 

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I think you've got to back that statement with a source, because I have before me the latest result on Iowa, where Obama is winning by 9% margin.

Eryl

I was composing another post and have since edited the relevant post you quoted above with more specific terms.

As of this post, currently, the accepted data set for Iowa is:
Obama 818,172 54%
McCain 677,449 45%
99% precincts reporting - 4:44 a.m. EST, Nov 5 '08




Now I have verified your statement with a source. The absentee and challenged ballot totals have been figured into the above numbers released by the Secretary of the State of Iowa.

I know you were going to quote a source Eryl but it was clearly more important to quote only my post rather than several of the other less-timely posts with more virulent assertions. I'm just sure there was nothing in your edit either.

Funny how no one is addressing my factual information on Obama's legal status as a candidate but several people feel the need to specifically call me on the carpet because I chose to post my belief that Iowa would tonight vote in majority for McCain. Because ALL of tonight's results will be null and void should Obama not be verified as a natural-born citizen.

I have written in multiple posts tonight about my desire that Obama end up as the next President, so how does nit-picking about one set of numbers really accomplish anything? A President Obama is clearly preferred by me and my home state. Isn't that a good thing?
 
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But until he is certified a "natural-born citizen" as defined by the Constitution and officially confirmed as President-Elect by a tally of the Electoral College, "President Obama" is not a factual representation.
 

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Actually the strongest rumor about his "true biological father" is that Obama senior was a cover forFrank Marshall Davis because Barry's mom was an underage white girl and Davis was a 55-year-old married black man who was Barry's grandfather's pal. Ironically, if Davis were Barack's biological father, his citizenship would confer and the rest of the citizenship argument would be moot.

And yes, among the theories for the seals: 1) Barack Sr is not listed as father on any certificate and/or 2) No father is listed on either the Hawaiian certificate of live birth or birth certificate of either Kenyan or Hawaiian origin.

In Davis’ autobiography, he writes of his seduction of a young white girl, age 13, named “Anne.” This fuels speculation that the “Anne” in Davis’ book is Obama’s mother, Stanley Ann Dunham, and that Obama may actually be the child of Frank Marshall Davis. Obama’s grandfather and Davis were close friends, suggesting that his mother and Davis certainly knew each other, but there is no reported evidence that Obama’s father was Davis. Further, when Ann Dunham moved to Hawaii with her parents in 1959 she was already age 16 or 17. Davis did know Stanley Armour Dunham in Kansas, so Davis may very well have had contact with Ann Dunham before she moved to Hawaii. (Nude photos of a woman purported to be Ann Dunham and alleged to have been taken by Frank Marshall Davis are circulating on the Internet, but faked photos are not terribly difficult using computers.) This Davis-as-father speculation is listed here only to provide the reader with as much information as possible about Obama’s background; it is not meant as an endorsement of the speculation itself. If additional information is obtained which confirms or refutes the speculation, it will be presented here. [21,259,260,365,370]

Some have noted that Frank Marshall Davis’ son, Mark Davis, bears a reasonable resemblance to candidate Obama, and what some would consider a stronger resemblance than shared by Obama Jr. and Obama Sr. Mark Davis’ mother, Helen Canfield, was, like Ann Dunham, a white woman. One could speculate that Obama’s father was not Barack Obama, Sr., but Frank Marshall Davis. Because Davis and Ann Dunham could certainly not have let that relationship be known (Davis was married and age 55, Dunham was only 17, and Davis was Stanley Dunham’s friend), Dunham may have convinced Obama, Sr. that he was the father-to-be. When he Obama, Sr. later learned that was not the case, he abruptly left Dunham, moved on to Harvard and then returned to Kenya. (There has been speculation that Dunham and Obama, Sr. never actually lived together in Hawaii and never got married.) [369]

If the speculation is true, Dunham may have continued the lie for the benefit of her son and her own parents. Davis would later be eager to be Obama’s mentor if he was, in fact, Obama’s father. Obama may not have learned the true identity of his father for some time, perhaps not until after the death of his grandfather, Stanley Dunham in 1992. It was not until after his grandfather’s death that Obama began work on his book, “Dreams From My Father.” At that point he may have understood who his real father was. His book had to include the “Kenyan history” in order to continue the charade for his planned political career, but the “dreams” Obama needed to pursue had more to do with a continuation of Davis’ legacy. It is worth noting also that Obama’s reluctance to give financial support to his poverty-stricken half-brother in Kenya, George, may be due to his not even being his half-brother. This is speculation based only on photographs and circumstantial evidence, and the disclosure of appropriate documentation by Obama would resolve unanswered questions and end speculation.


They're all theories...and some of them make the JFK, RFK, MLKjr and Malcolm X "conspiracies" seem almost plausible!

Until an official certificate is released, there will always be a question mark.
 
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ErylRavenwell

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Eryl

I was composing another post and have since edited the relevant post you quoted above with more specific terms.

As of this post, currently, the accepted data set for Iowa is:
Obama 818,172 54%
McCain 677,449 45%
99% precincts reporting - 4:44 a.m. EST, Nov 5 '08




Now I have verified your statement with a source. The absentee and challenged ballot totals have been figured into the above numbers released by the Secretary of the State of Iowa.

I know you were going to quote a source Eryl but it was clearly more important to quote only my post rather than several of the other less-timely posts with more virulent assertions. I'm just sure there was nothing in your edit either.

Funny how no one is addressing my factual information on Obama's legal status as a candidate but several people feel the need to specifically call me on the carpet because I chose to post my belief that Iowa would tonight vote in majority for McCain. Because ALL of tonight's results will be null and void should Obama not be verified as a natural-born citizen.

I have written in multiple posts tonight about my desire that Obama end up as the next President, so how does nit-picking about one set of numbers really accomplish anything? A President Obama is clearly preferred by me and my home state. Isn't that a good thing?

Calm down. I was just pointing out an irregularity, because I assume maybe you knew something I didn't.

As for the birth certificate issue, anyone with a tangible interest in the matter has already looked into it. Speculations won't lead you anywhere.
 

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Until Barack Hussein Obama II released HIS official Hawaiian birth certificate as a stamped, seal-affixed paper copy and not an unrecognized, non-authorized, non-sealed electronic certificate of live birth of dubious origin and thus proves he was born on U.S. soil, I do not recognize him as a natural citizen of the USA and therefore understand him to an illegal candidate who fraudulently claims the title of President-Elect.

Yeah, somehow I don't think your refusal to recognise Obama as rightful President-Elect is going to do much to upset the system.
 

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]Until Barack Hussein Obama II.......

sigh.


released HIS official Hawaiian birth certificate as a stamped, seal-affixed paper copy and not an unrecognized, non-authorized, non-sealed electronic certificate of live birth of dubious origin and thus proves he was born on U.S. soil, I do not recognize him as a natural citizen of the USA and therefore understand him to an illegal candidate who fraudulently claims the title of President-Elect.

I want to believe. I want change. But if the "first" gets there by deceit, then it is not real. And worse, the fraud will only reaffirm the biases of those who think any one who is non-white cannot achieve honestly.

If there is nothing to hide, then why seal the records in Hawaii and Kenya?

I would love to be proven wrong by Obama. I would dearly cling to the belief he is the new FDR/JFK and MLKjr all rolled into The One who will make the USA great again.

But until the Electoral College votes on December 15th and the result is tallied and certified on January 8th, Obama is only a projected winner subject to verification of the response to the Berg lawsuit due on December 1st, NOT President.

No offense but you're a little late to the party. Berg is a lunatic and as I said in another topic, his "lawsuit" was already deemed a sham .
 

GeorgeK

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I do not recognize him as a natural citizen of the USA and therefore understand him to an illegal candidate who fraudulently claims the title of President-Elect.
.

If Obama's credentials are good enough for McCain, then I think the election is over.
 

mscelina

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The African born in Hawaii.

Jesus Christ, do we have to listen to this crap forever?

Obama is as much an American citizen as I am--who was born in Europe on a military base to a French national and her American husband.

I really hope that some people around here will pay their quarter and jump on the clue bus some time before I die.
 

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The African born in Hawaii.

Jesus Christ, do we have to listen to this crap forever?

Obama is as much an American citizen as I am--who was born in Europe on a military base to a French national and her American husband.

I really hope that some people around here will pay their quarter and jump on the clue bus some time before I die.

MY BAD

African American

Really MY bad
 

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Calm down. I was just pointing out an irregularity, because I assume maybe you knew something I didn't.

As for the birth certificate issue, anyone with a tangible interest in the matter has already looked into it. Speculations won't lead you anywhere.

Assume. Great word. You did appear rude in your choice of words. At the time I posted, the tally had not taken into account the absentee and provisionals. You did have a number I did not---as I was on AWWC and not a political site with current number. Not everyone was allowed to look into it. The questions weren't speculation.
 

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sigh.




No offense but you're a little late to the party. Berg is a lunatic and as I said in another topic, his "lawsuit" was already deemed a sham .

Berg is not a lunatic. He has not be legally declared as such. And your non-medical, non-authoritative opinion does not make him such. His lawsuit was not "deemed a sham". Really, you should stick to factual information. His lawsuit was dismissed for being filed in the wrong place and under the wrong application. The dismissal order said he, singly, did not have the standing to file under the law he quoted. It was a valid argument, just presented in the wrong way. The same as my argument over Obama's citizenship status. Obama tried to present proof online and did so in the wrong way, which prompted further issue. It did not mean I did not have standing to question it, but now I now I did not have the right information.
 

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Was he born in Hawaii? To an American mother? Then he's American. End of story.

Christine, that is not correct, nor would those circumstances fit the law. Barack Hussein Obama II was born in Kenya. His biological mother was a natural-born citizen of the USA. She had not been a citizen long enough to legally confer status to her son. Barack's biological father, Frank Marshall Davis, was a natural-born citizen of the USA. When S. Ann Dunham was refused boarding on a flight back to Hawaii, she was forced to give birth in Kenya. When she was allowed to travel again, she returned to Hawaii and registered her son's birth. The image presented online and represented as a "birth certificate" for Obama is not the correct one. It does not contact the information from the real certificate, which was issued when the certification was altered with Barack's biological father's name. The Department of Health for the State of Hawaii formally issued a Certificate of Live Birth for Barack Hussein Obama II when the Certification of Live Birth which his mother applied for was challenged by Obama himself at age 18. This is the Certificate Obama has had sealed. As Barack has built his image of a son of a Kenyan student and white mother, it would have been a blow to reveal that his declared father was not the correct one. A 17-year-old white female being impregnated by a 55-year-old married black male, who was a friend of her father's was not acceptable in 1961, especially in divided Hawaii. Who lied to who and when is irrelevant as the facts have been documented correctly and legally. Official records do in fact reveal Barack Obama II to be a legal, natural-born citizen of the United States, an "American". That his parentage was not pristine is no fault of his own, but I understand the "white" washing of it. It is not the end of the story, but it is all of it. He is my President[-elect until January 20].
 
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