Need to know: outrageous or simply inconvenient?

Outrageous and inconvenient, dangerous for people who might have become dehydrated and for whom exposure to the sun is painfully dangerous - and if it isn't illegal, it ought to be. Did all the employees have to stand around or were there seats for everyone? Did they make any accomodation for handicapped employees? It's one thing to bring in professionals for investigation, but putting Barney Fifes in charge is certainly not the answer to an understandable frustration on the part of ownership.

I'd be furious, too.

I think it's outrageous. Management has to find a better way to discover the perpetrator than treating 500 employees like prisoners all day. Being deprived of your freedom to this extent comes close to kidnapping. What utter BS. If I worked there I'd look into filing a class-action lawsuit with the other employees. Seriously.

This is bad, bad, bad management.

Even lousy managers know who their bad actors are. They should have started there. Punishing all for the crimes of one is always the weakest, most spineless and fruitless approach.

I hope the manager who thought this nightmare up is summarily fired.

Holy crappers!

This sounds like a great question for Markesq. Where is he?

I really wanna hear his take on this.

I am gonna go look for that man...

Christine

I'd report what happened to the police. If it's not illegal, it's at least causing their investigations to be messed up more than a bit.

I'd also report it to the manager's boss. Like someone above said, if this guy wasn't fired, he should be. Managers have some authority, but they shouldn't be taking the place of the police, and they shouldn't be putting employees at risk.

I would definitely complain to the company higher-ups and to the police, Perks. And if I were your husband, I'd demand overtime pay if it went past his normal working hours or used up his lunch time and breaks.

Perks said:

Thank. I suggested he write it all once he'd eaten and rested, so he did. I think there are a good number of employees who will not be willing to simply shrug this off. At least I hope so.

When DH got back into the car and headed for the exit barricade, he was worried that his name wouldn't be on the list. I told him that if they didn't let him out to call the police.

Interestingly, they have support staff in a suite of offices about twenty-five miles away. I called that office to try to get routed through to someone at my husband's plant via their switchboard. It was already four pm and the people at the auxiliary office didn't even know what was going on over there. No one had told them. I'm thinking Mr. Plant Manager wasn't all that confident in the righteousness of his plan.

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As well he should have been. I don't know if it was illegal or not, but if it isn't, it sure as hell should be.

Outrageous is the right word.

Perks said:

Ah yes! That's exactly the the sort of dude who might know. Good thinking. Thank you all for reading, I know it's a long post, but it was such a weird day. I am not readily litigious, but I think something should be done about this.

My poor husband called me from his office after his ridiculous questioning, saying he'd collapsed in his chair and his hands were shaking as he dug through his desk drawer for a bag of bagel crisps. We had company by the time he got home (which was well late and there had been perhaps a hundred people in line behind him when he finally was allowed into the building.) He is a gracious and social guy and he sat down to visit with our guests and promptly fell asleep. He'd been in a hurry that morning and had very little breakfast before he left. He was so hungry and dehydrated that he was a wreck for the rest of the evening. I think being furious for most of the day is quite taxing.

Click to expand...

I cannot fault anyone their post lengths. Even though mine are always so short (cough, hack, sputter - fib/lie - cough, hack, sputter) I love to read long posts with a lot of detail.

This issue is huge. HUGE.

Even were there no implications from employees against the boss or employer, this is a matter that needs media attention. In my opinion.

For, if this employer does such and gets away with it, who knows how many others will follow suit (after hearing about it word of mouth) - and terrorize their own staff? YES, I see this as terrorizing and placing fear in employees ALL employees.

It sets up a hostile work environment. It puts employees against the employer/bosses and employees against employees. It is actionable in some cases I think.

Not that I advocate suing easily, for I do not. Nor am I saying you or the others should sue this employer/boss. But, I know that a hostile work environment suit is one that can be brought. I just do not know what all constitutes "hostile work environment". And, if yours applies in your state.

Anyway, I am hoping Mark comes on in and imparts legalities and wisdom. I am subbing the thread to see what he says.

Good luck and hope you can relax!

Christine

some Anonymous Poster said:

No, they had to stand on the sidewalk in the sun. If they left to take a break, they'd lose their place in line. There wasn't any shade and we're at nearly 3,000 feet elevation, so the sun is very intense. One guy turned purple. They did make accommodations for pregnant women and diabetics to get processed first, so that they could opt to forage for food (the cafeteria workers were also out on the sidewalk, so the cafeteria was closed) or leave once their names reached the exit barricades. I assume they allowed anyone with special needs to be attended to earlier rather than later.

All day, I was under the assumption that it was the FBI (I was one of the few who got updated regularly by my rogue husband who used his cellphone) or at least the local police doing the questioning. My head almost caught fire when I found out late in the day that it was the blessed plant manager who had set up this circus.

Click to expand...

Did your husband assume this too, or did he just not manage to communicate this to you until he knew? Had you known, you could have (run to a pay phone so it couldn't be easily traced back to you) called 911 to get the police out there to investigate. That might have got whoever was "in charge" arrested (and the problem of the day would be solved, if not the long-term problem of the loon).

You can STILL call the police.

Perks said:

I wanted to come get <name of hubby deleted>, but he said that it was impressed upon them that their jobs depended on their cooperation. It's an 'at will' employment state, so he believed the threat. I don't see how this applies.

Does one regular civilian citizen have the authority to detain another? I thought that was part of the definition of kidnapping.

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The "do this or be fired" thing in an at-will state may make it legal in the sense that it's not technically kidnapping, but I bet OSHA and likely a few other authorities (local police departments, elected officials, TV news departments...) would love to hear about this incident (from one or more "anonymous informants" of course - don't want to risk management knowing who tattled).

IMHO, this was a totally unprofessional way of handling the situation. Offhand, I can think of several less radical things they could have done, some perhaps even "less illegal" and certainly less blatantly invasive. For exanple, lots of small security cameras (yes, even in the restrooms, I don't think you'd need to point them at the urinals and stalls) everywhere and the recording equioment for them would cost less than the lost productivity of a single evacuation of 500 people.

I wonder how many hundreds of those employees are updating their resumes this weekend?

Impress on Hubby that he should start looking for a new job. It's bad enough the craziness has been going on for this long at work, but just this incident alone may be enough to force lots of key people to get new jobs, and the company may not last much longer.

How important is this job (as in does it pay well, do you think he can reasonably get a similar one)? If it's that important, talk to an employment attorney. I expect even in an 'at will' state it's illegal to fire someone for reporting what is very likely illegal activity by management, though if pressed for a reason the company will surely say the person(s) were fired for good cause. So be anonymous as you can for as long as you can.

If management gathers everyone together tomorrow morning, apologizes for the whole thing Friday, says it will report everything to the FBI and such, hire GOOD investigators (I suggest the interrogators for El Al airline), then that's a good sign, Hubby should still be happy he dropped those resumes in the mail, and keep doing it.

You might even go so far as to ask the mods to remove this thread.

You say that there have been numerous bomb threats and instances of bullets being strewn about. If I were that plant manager I would have instituded mandatory searches of every person entering the premises a long time ago, only allow clear plastic purses and bags to be brought on the premises and cameras in the places that the notes and bullets were left.

This fiasco he arranged is too little too late. The lives of five hundred people are at stake and he as plant manager has an obligation to safguard the premises so all the employees can work in a safe environment.

As ill concieved and poorly implemented his solution of that day was, it is his obligation to see that the employees have a safe place to work and to safeguard the plant from destruction.

Richard

Perks said:

Hmmm. Interesting points and I was kinda going there too. My husband wanted his name deleted from the posts, which I did. I'll PM where his name came up in quotes.

I'll look to getting some input from all willing, and then may ask for it to be deleted.

Thanks to everyone for their support!

Click to expand...

Getting the thread deleted may not be important at all. Although something to consider for your peace of mind.

The reality is that this company is not going to search the web (although reporters may) looking to find out what is being said. Not until something happens to them for such.

And it is impossible to keep 500 people anonymous/silent - especially if media becomes involved.

Names out of posts a good idea? Yeah. But, reality is that it would be hard for anyone to find out who you are and who your hubby is on the net with this type post you made.

The company will be recognized once public - yeah even without name out there. But, it would be hard to pick which employee wife posted this. And, even if they did - nothing can really happen. For, if a suit is brought - the names will be public record. And, likely employment will end - even without knowing who made this post. And, people will voice and be heard and seen. Thus, being anonymous really is moot. So, do what you feel best, but don't let the post being here add worry to you.

Don't escalate/add worry until you have legal advice from a lawyer. Or business commission or bureau in your state.

Christine

If this wasn't illegal it should be. It reminds me of the time a company I worked for decided to drug test everyone all at the same time. They lined about 300 people up and one by one everyone had to go into a bathroom with two nurses and pee in a cup. I thought that was bad but this incident takes the cake!

joyce said:

If this wasn't illegal it should be. It reminds me of the time a company I worked for decided to drug test everyone all at the same time. They lined about 300 people up and one by one everyone had to go into a bathroom with two nurses and pee in a cup. I thought that was bad but this incident takes the cake!

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While the drug testing was certainly inconvenient, many company policies include random (at their choice) drug testing. And, if they brought someone (nurses) in, rather than sending out all the employees for sake of time/money, I can see it. I think it wrong to do such. But, I do see the why/how of that.

I hate to see that stuff as much as what happened here at this company. Sorry it happened to you Joyce.

Christine

willfulone said:

While the drug testing was certainly inconvenient, many company policies include random (at their choice) drug testing. And, if they brought someone (nurses) in, rather than sending out all the employees for sake of time/money, I can see it. I think it wrong to do such. But, I do see the why/how of that.

I hate to see that stuff as much as what happened here at this company. Sorry it happened to you Joyce.

Christine

Click to expand...

The funny thing was the President, who didn't pee in a cup, snorted coke. At least we all stood inside unlike this crappy incident where everyone was outside suffering through the ridiculousness.

Much good luck, Perks to you both. That really is terrible what they're doing. Sure wish there was a better way for them to make sure the plant and the employees are aok.

I would think that criminal confinement (holding people against their will) would almost apply here. Not to mention depriving people of food and water as well as cover from the elements.

I would venture to guess that there were employment and other laws violated here and I'm sure that it would be very worth speaking to an attorney.

There's something very wrong with that picture...

Wow. We've had 'bomb threats' in my school (Junior High, can you imagine? It's ridiculous) but usually we just get evacuated for a couple minutes, mainly because they know none of the 11-15 year-old kids really have a bomb in the building.
The fact that it's an adult workplace affects the severity of the reaction, I'm sure, but I wonder if being in the U.S. makes a big difference. Like, if a school just like mine had a stupid threat left in a bathroom, would they react more strongly than they did here?
Either way, your story is unbelievable. I can't believe they'd treat people like that. I hope they end up with a major lawsuit on their hands or something. I bet whichever loser caused the trouble will think hard before doing it again, though. Or maybe he'll just wait for more convenient weather.

This sounds absolutely outrageous to me too. On top of that, how can a company make money ... when this is the focus of the day?! Unbelievable.

Best luck to you, your husband, and the good people in the company.

Seaclusion said:

You say that there have been numerous bomb threats and instances of bullets being strewn about. If I were that plant manager I would have instituded mandatory searches of every person entering the premises a long time ago, only allow clear plastic purses and bags to be brought on the premises and cameras in the places that the notes and bullets were left.

This fiasco he arranged is too little too late. The lives of five hundred people are at stake and he as plant manager has an obligation to safguard the premises so all the employees can work in a safe environment.

As ill concieved and poorly implemented his solution of that day was, it is his obligation to see that the employees have a safe place to work and to safeguard the plant from destruction.

Richard

Click to expand...

I disagree here. What the amateur plant manager should have done is a) called the police and let them handle it (which he did, in the beginning) and b) co-ordinate with higher-ups to develop a plan to keep employees safe. The plant manager did NOTHING to keep the employees safe, and in fact put them further at risk by his ill-conceived plan.

If you don't know what you're doing, in a case like this, you're better off doing nothing.

Perks, it does sound like the higher-ups had no prior warning of this guy's plan. Since they almost certainly know what happened now, my advice might be (after writing all the pertinent details down to keep everything fresh in hubby's mind) to simply wait a day or so for the brass to act.

But the question remains: with bomb threats and bullets in the corridors, why haven't the brass been actively involved before this????

It boggles my mind--I know if there were bomb threats at my workplace, I'd expect everyone from the CEO on down to be on the case immediately.

And I know that if I were in your hubby's shoes, I'd be looking for another position pronto, if at all possible. It doesn't sound like the company's very well run, from what little you've told us, nor does it sound like a place that's pleasant to work at.