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View Full Version : Need to know: outrageous or simply inconvenient?



Perks
11-02-2008, 06:42 PM
I'm very curious to know what you people would have to say about something that happened here on Friday.

For the past six months or so, my husband's company (a manufacturing plant and its administrative offices) has needed a security force on-site due to some clown repeatedly leaving bomb threats in the men's lavatory, strewing bullets about, and that sort of creepy nonsense. During this time, the entire building (more than five hundred people) has been evacuated a handful of times, the last occurrence being this past Friday at 8:15am.

Everyone shuffles out into the thirty-odd degree morning and the cops come, with their dogs and such. By 10:15, they haven't found anything and leave. The day grows bright and warm.

The plant manager (read: just some guy) is obviously sick of this, so he gives a couple of employees radios and orders them to drive their cars across the exits and patrol the barricades, which they inexplicably do. (This all ends up as some fascinating social experiment in the transfer of the illusion of power.)

He proclaims that they will enter the building one by one and will be 'interrogated' and will not be allowed to leave the property until they've been cleared to do so. He enlists a few employees to patrol the bathroom line and accepts the pregnant women and diabetics first. In the afternoon, crackers (I kid you not) and water are passed around. Everyone is ordered to keep their cellphones turned off, but the newly enlisted militia has trouble enforcing this rule amongst five hundred people.

Long story short-ish, it takes them over nine hours to 'process' everyone. The grand inquisitor, having no investigative skills, simply asks them if they've seen anything odd and demands a sample of their handwriting. Some people are turned away from the barricade when the chain of communication breaks down and their name doesn't appear on the 'all clear' list. So they have to get back into the building to renegotiate their release. Numerous people suffer sunburns which range from moderate to severe. Lack of food and water leaves many shaking and ill.

Just how wrong and/or illegal is this scenario? All weekend my husband's been fielding calls and emails from co-workers who are absolutely furious and rattled by the experience.

Ol' Fashioned Girl
11-02-2008, 06:57 PM
Outrageous and inconvenient, dangerous for people who might have become dehydrated and for whom exposure to the sun is painfully dangerous - and if it isn't illegal, it ought to be. Did all the employees have to stand around or were there seats for everyone? Did they make any accomodation for handicapped employees? It's one thing to bring in professionals for investigation, but putting Barney Fifes in charge is certainly not the answer to an understandable frustration on the part of ownership.

I'd be furious, too.

Perks
11-02-2008, 07:06 PM
No, they had to stand on the sidewalk in the sun. If they left to take a break, they'd lose their place in line. There wasn't any shade and we're at nearly 3,000 feet elevation, so the sun is very intense. One guy turned purple. They did make accommodations for pregnant women and diabetics to get processed first, so that they could opt to forage for food (the cafeteria workers were also out on the sidewalk, so the cafeteria was closed) or leave once their names reached the exit barricades. I assume they allowed anyone with special needs to be attended to earlier rather than later.

All day, I was under the assumption that it was the FBI (I was one of the few who got updated regularly by my rogue husband who used his cellphone) or at least the local police doing the questioning. My head almost caught fire when I found out late in the day that it was the blessed plant manager who had set up this circus.

I wanted to come get him, but he said that it was impressed upon them that their jobs depended on their cooperation. It's an 'at will' employment state, so he believed the threat. I don't see how this applies.

Does one regular civilian citizen have the authority to detain another? I thought that was part of the definition of kidnapping.

Devil Ledbetter
11-02-2008, 07:39 PM
I think it's outrageous. Management has to find a better way to discover the perpetrator than treating 500 employees like prisoners all day. Being deprived of your freedom to this extent comes close to kidnapping. What utter BS. If I worked there I'd look into filing a class-action lawsuit with the other employees. Seriously.

This is bad, bad, bad management.

Even lousy managers know who their bad actors are. They should have started there. Punishing all for the crimes of one is always the weakest, most spineless and fruitless approach.

I hope the manager who thought this nightmare up is summarily fired.

willfulone
11-02-2008, 07:53 PM
Holy crappers!

This sounds like a great question for Markesq. Where is he?

I really wanna hear his take on this.

I am gonna go look for that man...

Christine

Yeshanu
11-02-2008, 07:59 PM
I'd report what happened to the police. If it's not illegal, it's at least causing their investigations to be messed up more than a bit.

I'd also report it to the manager's boss. Like someone above said, if this guy wasn't fired, he should be. Managers have some authority, but they shouldn't be taking the place of the police, and they shouldn't be putting employees at risk.

Perks
11-02-2008, 08:08 PM
Holy crappers!

This sounds like a great question for Markesq. Where is he?

I really wanna hear his take on this.

I am gonna go look for that man...

Christine
Ah yes! That's exactly the the sort of dude who might know. Good thinking. Thank you all for reading, I know it's a long post, but it was such a weird day. I am not readily litigious, but I think something should be done about this.

My poor husband called me from his office after his ridiculous questioning, saying he'd collapsed in his chair and his hands were shaking as he dug through his desk drawer for a bag of bagel crisps. We had company by the time he got home (which was well late and there had been perhaps a hundred people in line behind him when he finally was allowed into the building.) He is a gracious and social guy and he sat down to visit with our guests and promptly fell asleep. He'd been in a hurry that morning and had very little breakfast before he left. He was so hungry and dehydrated that he was a wreck for the rest of the evening. I think being furious for most of the day is quite taxing.

Yeshanu
11-02-2008, 08:10 PM
I would definitely complain to the company higher-ups and to the police, Perks. And if I were your husband, I'd demand overtime pay if it went past his normal working hours or used up his lunch time and breaks.

Perks
11-02-2008, 08:15 PM
Thank. I suggested he write it all once he'd eaten and rested, so he did. I think there are a good number of employees who will not be willing to simply shrug this off. At least I hope so.

When he got back into the car and headed for the exit barricade, he was worried that his name wouldn't be on the list. I told him that if they didn't let him out to call the police.

Interestingly, they have support staff in a suite of offices about twenty-five miles away. I called that office to try to get routed through to someone at my husband's plant via their switchboard. It was already four pm and the people at the auxiliary office didn't even know what was going on over there. No one had told them. I'm thinking Mr. Plant Manager wasn't all that confident in the righteousness of his plan.

Cranky
11-02-2008, 08:21 PM
Thank. I suggested he write it all once he'd eaten and rested, so he did. I think there are a good number of employees who will not be willing to simply shrug this off. At least I hope so.

When DH got back into the car and headed for the exit barricade, he was worried that his name wouldn't be on the list. I told him that if they didn't let him out to call the police.

Interestingly, they have support staff in a suite of offices about twenty-five miles away. I called that office to try to get routed through to someone at my husband's plant via their switchboard. It was already four pm and the people at the auxiliary office didn't even know what was going on over there. No one had told them. I'm thinking Mr. Plant Manager wasn't all that confident in the righteousness of his plan.

As well he should have been. I don't know if it was illegal or not, but if it isn't, it sure as hell should be.

Outrageous is the right word.

willfulone
11-02-2008, 08:26 PM
Ah yes! That's exactly the the sort of dude who might know. Good thinking. Thank you all for reading, I know it's a long post, but it was such a weird day. I am not readily litigious, but I think something should be done about this.

My poor husband called me from his office after his ridiculous questioning, saying he'd collapsed in his chair and his hands were shaking as he dug through his desk drawer for a bag of bagel crisps. We had company by the time he got home (which was well late and there had been perhaps a hundred people in line behind him when he finally was allowed into the building.) He is a gracious and social guy and he sat down to visit with our guests and promptly fell asleep. He'd been in a hurry that morning and had very little breakfast before he left. He was so hungry and dehydrated that he was a wreck for the rest of the evening. I think being furious for most of the day is quite taxing.

I cannot fault anyone their post lengths. Even though mine are always so short (cough, hack, sputter - fib/lie - cough, hack, sputter) I love to read long posts with a lot of detail.

This issue is huge. HUGE.

Even were there no implications from employees against the boss or employer, this is a matter that needs media attention. In my opinion.

For, if this employer does such and gets away with it, who knows how many others will follow suit (after hearing about it word of mouth) - and terrorize their own staff? YES, I see this as terrorizing and placing fear in employees ALL employees.

It sets up a hostile work environment. It puts employees against the employer/bosses and employees against employees. It is actionable in some cases I think.

Not that I advocate suing easily, for I do not. Nor am I saying you or the others should sue this employer/boss. But, I know that a hostile work environment suit is one that can be brought. I just do not know what all constitutes "hostile work environment". And, if yours applies in your state.

Anyway, I am hoping Mark comes on in and imparts legalities and wisdom. I am subbing the thread to see what he says.

Good luck and hope you can relax!

Christine

benbradley
11-02-2008, 08:31 PM
No, they had to stand on the sidewalk in the sun. If they left to take a break, they'd lose their place in line. There wasn't any shade and we're at nearly 3,000 feet elevation, so the sun is very intense. One guy turned purple. They did make accommodations for pregnant women and diabetics to get processed first, so that they could opt to forage for food (the cafeteria workers were also out on the sidewalk, so the cafeteria was closed) or leave once their names reached the exit barricades. I assume they allowed anyone with special needs to be attended to earlier rather than later.

All day, I was under the assumption that it was the FBI (I was one of the few who got updated regularly by my rogue husband who used his cellphone) or at least the local police doing the questioning. My head almost caught fire when I found out late in the day that it was the blessed plant manager who had set up this circus.
Did your husband assume this too, or did he just not manage to communicate this to you until he knew? Had you known, you could have (run to a pay phone so it couldn't be easily traced back to you) called 911 to get the police out there to investigate. That might have got whoever was "in charge" arrested (and the problem of the day would be solved, if not the long-term problem of the loon).

You can STILL call the police.


I wanted to come get <name of hubby deleted>, but he said that it was impressed upon them that their jobs depended on their cooperation. It's an 'at will' employment state, so he believed the threat. I don't see how this applies.

Does one regular civilian citizen have the authority to detain another? I thought that was part of the definition of kidnapping.
The "do this or be fired" thing in an at-will state may make it legal in the sense that it's not technically kidnapping, but I bet OSHA and likely a few other authorities (local police departments, elected officials, TV news departments...) would love to hear about this incident (from one or more "anonymous informants" of course - don't want to risk management knowing who tattled).

IMHO, this was a totally unprofessional way of handling the situation. Offhand, I can think of several less radical things they could have done, some perhaps even "less illegal" and certainly less blatantly invasive. For exanple, lots of small security cameras (yes, even in the restrooms, I don't think you'd need to point them at the urinals and stalls) everywhere and the recording equioment for them would cost less than the lost productivity of a single evacuation of 500 people.

I wonder how many hundreds of those employees are updating their resumes this weekend?

Impress on Hubby that he should start looking for a new job. It's bad enough the craziness has been going on for this long at work, but just this incident alone may be enough to force lots of key people to get new jobs, and the company may not last much longer.

How important is this job (as in does it pay well, do you think he can reasonably get a similar one)? If it's that important, talk to an employment attorney. I expect even in an 'at will' state it's illegal to fire someone for reporting what is very likely illegal activity by management, though if pressed for a reason the company will surely say the person(s) were fired for good cause. So be anonymous as you can for as long as you can.

If management gathers everyone together tomorrow morning, apologizes for the whole thing Friday, says it will report everything to the FBI and such, hire GOOD investigators (I suggest the interrogators for El Al airline), then that's a good sign, Hubby should still be happy he dropped those resumes in the mail, and keep doing it.

You might even go so far as to ask the mods to remove this thread.

Perks
11-02-2008, 08:37 PM
Hmmm. Interesting points and I was kinda going there too. My husband wanted his name deleted from the posts, which I did. I'll PM where his name came up in quotes.

I'll look to getting some input from all willing, and then may ask for it to be deleted.

Thanks to everyone for their support!

Seaclusion
11-02-2008, 08:43 PM
You say that there have been numerous bomb threats and instances of bullets being strewn about. If I were that plant manager I would have instituded mandatory searches of every person entering the premises a long time ago, only allow clear plastic purses and bags to be brought on the premises and cameras in the places that the notes and bullets were left.

This fiasco he arranged is too little too late. The lives of five hundred people are at stake and he as plant manager has an obligation to safguard the premises so all the employees can work in a safe environment.

As ill concieved and poorly implemented his solution of that day was, it is his obligation to see that the employees have a safe place to work and to safeguard the plant from destruction.

Richard

willfulone
11-02-2008, 08:47 PM
Hmmm. Interesting points and I was kinda going there too. My husband wanted his name deleted from the posts, which I did. I'll PM where his name came up in quotes.

I'll look to getting some input from all willing, and then may ask for it to be deleted.

Thanks to everyone for their support!

Getting the thread deleted may not be important at all. Although something to consider for your peace of mind.

The reality is that this company is not going to search the web (although reporters may) looking to find out what is being said. Not until something happens to them for such.

And it is impossible to keep 500 people anonymous/silent - especially if media becomes involved.

Names out of posts a good idea? Yeah. But, reality is that it would be hard for anyone to find out who you are and who your hubby is on the net with this type post you made.

The company will be recognized once public - yeah even without name out there. But, it would be hard to pick which employee wife posted this. And, even if they did - nothing can really happen. For, if a suit is brought - the names will be public record. And, likely employment will end - even without knowing who made this post. And, people will voice and be heard and seen. Thus, being anonymous really is moot. So, do what you feel best, but don't let the post being here add worry to you.

Don't escalate/add worry until you have legal advice from a lawyer. Or business commission or bureau in your state.

Christine

joyce
11-02-2008, 09:00 PM
If this wasn't illegal it should be. It reminds me of the time a company I worked for decided to drug test everyone all at the same time. They lined about 300 people up and one by one everyone had to go into a bathroom with two nurses and pee in a cup. I thought that was bad but this incident takes the cake!

willfulone
11-02-2008, 09:13 PM
If this wasn't illegal it should be. It reminds me of the time a company I worked for decided to drug test everyone all at the same time. They lined about 300 people up and one by one everyone had to go into a bathroom with two nurses and pee in a cup. I thought that was bad but this incident takes the cake!

While the drug testing was certainly inconvenient, many company policies include random (at their choice) drug testing. And, if they brought someone (nurses) in, rather than sending out all the employees for sake of time/money, I can see it. I think it wrong to do such. But, I do see the why/how of that.

I hate to see that stuff as much as what happened here at this company. Sorry it happened to you Joyce.

Christine

joyce
11-02-2008, 09:25 PM
While the drug testing was certainly inconvenient, many company policies include random (at their choice) drug testing. And, if they brought someone (nurses) in, rather than sending out all the employees for sake of time/money, I can see it. I think it wrong to do such. But, I do see the why/how of that.

I hate to see that stuff as much as what happened here at this company. Sorry it happened to you Joyce.

Christine

The funny thing was the President, who didn't pee in a cup, snorted coke. At least we all stood inside unlike this crappy incident where everyone was outside suffering through the ridiculousness.

Susie
11-02-2008, 10:30 PM
Much good luck, Perks to you both. That really is terrible what they're doing. Sure wish there was a better way for them to make sure the plant and the employees are aok.

tjwriter
11-02-2008, 10:47 PM
I would think that criminal confinement (holding people against their will) would almost apply here. Not to mention depriving people of food and water as well as cover from the elements.

I would venture to guess that there were employment and other laws violated here and I'm sure that it would be very worth speaking to an attorney.

There's something very wrong with that picture...

Ciera_
11-02-2008, 11:22 PM
Wow. We've had 'bomb threats' in my school (Junior High, can you imagine? It's ridiculous) but usually we just get evacuated for a couple minutes, mainly because they know none of the 11-15 year-old kids really have a bomb in the building.
The fact that it's an adult workplace affects the severity of the reaction, I'm sure, but I wonder if being in the U.S. makes a big difference. Like, if a school just like mine had a stupid threat left in a bathroom, would they react more strongly than they did here?
Either way, your story is unbelievable. I can't believe they'd treat people like that. I hope they end up with a major lawsuit on their hands or something. I bet whichever loser caused the trouble will think hard before doing it again, though. Or maybe he'll just wait for more convenient weather.

Perks
11-02-2008, 11:31 PM
Thanks everybody. The company has employed a major security firm and all entrants are wanded and have their bags searched every day for the last few months. From what I know of profiling, whoever is doing this probably is unhappy in his job and likes to cause disruption. Bomb makers like carnage. They don't much waste their time with prior showboating. The bullets are a bit worrisome.

I greatly approve of them looking after the safety of the employees. I said that when I talked to people on Friday about what was happening. It's just difficult to imagine that anyone who had knowledge of suspicious activities wouldn't have reported them before being subjected to nine hours in the mountain sun without food or water to speak of.

Snowstorm
11-02-2008, 11:32 PM
This sounds absolutely outrageous to me too. On top of that, how can a company make money ... when this is the focus of the day?! Unbelievable.

Best luck to you, your husband, and the good people in the company.

Perks
11-02-2008, 11:33 PM
Lol! It's been a problem. Having a production floor shut down for hours on end has put a cramp in operations to be sure.

Yeshanu
11-03-2008, 01:53 AM
You say that there have been numerous bomb threats and instances of bullets being strewn about. If I were that plant manager I would have instituded mandatory searches of every person entering the premises a long time ago, only allow clear plastic purses and bags to be brought on the premises and cameras in the places that the notes and bullets were left.

This fiasco he arranged is too little too late. The lives of five hundred people are at stake and he as plant manager has an obligation to safguard the premises so all the employees can work in a safe environment.

As ill concieved and poorly implemented his solution of that day was, it is his obligation to see that the employees have a safe place to work and to safeguard the plant from destruction.

Richard

I disagree here. What the amateur plant manager should have done is a) called the police and let them handle it (which he did, in the beginning) and b) co-ordinate with higher-ups to develop a plan to keep employees safe. The plant manager did NOTHING to keep the employees safe, and in fact put them further at risk by his ill-conceived plan.

If you don't know what you're doing, in a case like this, you're better off doing nothing.

Perks, it does sound like the higher-ups had no prior warning of this guy's plan. Since they almost certainly know what happened now, my advice might be (after writing all the pertinent details down to keep everything fresh in hubby's mind) to simply wait a day or so for the brass to act.

But the question remains: with bomb threats and bullets in the corridors, why haven't the brass been actively involved before this????

It boggles my mind--I know if there were bomb threats at my workplace, I'd expect everyone from the CEO on down to be on the case immediately.

And I know that if I were in your hubby's shoes, I'd be looking for another position pronto, if at all possible. It doesn't sound like the company's very well run, from what little you've told us, nor does it sound like a place that's pleasant to work at.

Perks
11-03-2008, 02:04 AM
But the question remains: with bomb threats and bullets in the corridors, why haven't the brass been actively involved before this????

It boggles my mind--I know if there were bomb threats at my workplace, I'd expect everyone from the CEO on down to be on the case immediately.

No, the management, up until Friday, has handled it as well as can be expected. They immediately hired security as soon as this guy started his nonsense. Everyone is wanded and their bags inspected as they enter the building. It's inconvenient, but it makes sense.

The police have been involved at every bomb threat but have made no headway in the case as a whole.

What happened on Friday is most likely the result of repeated, frustrating plant closures. But the plan was stunted in its plotting and ultimately useless. If the jackass wants to disrupt business, he's just had the most hilarious weekend of his life, while his coworkers nurse their sunburns, over-taxed pancreases, and lit nerves.

JJ Cooper
11-03-2008, 07:11 AM
Over here, the employer could be prosecuted under Wokplace Health and Safety legislation for failing to provide a safe working environment for the employees. ie. shaded area, sunscreen, wide-brimed hats, water etc.

Intentions seemed right, just poorly executed.

JJ

benbradley
11-03-2008, 07:21 AM
No, the management, up until Friday, has handled it as well as can be expected. They immediately hired security as soon as this guy started his nonsense. Everyone is wanded and their bags inspected as they enter the building. It's inconvenient, but it makes sense.

The police have been involved at every bomb threat but have made no headway in the case as a whole.
Hmm, one would think after a few times the FBI or other big guns would be involved.

What happened on Friday is most likely the result of repeated, frustrating plant closures. But the plan was stunted in its plotting and ultimately useless. If the jackass wants to disrupt business, he's just had the most hilarious weekend of his life, while his coworkers nurse their sunburns, over-taxed pancreases, and lit nerves.
They should also be searching (maybe even x-raying) every package that enters the building, whether it's pallets of stuff or a box of pencils from the local office supply. The guy might not be bringing this stuff in on his/her person.

sassandgroove
11-03-2008, 10:04 PM
Yeah, that is something to think about. Geez, now I am paranoid. I ususally sign for deliveries. I check for package damage, not so much who the package is from. OY.

Pagey's_Girl
11-03-2008, 10:26 PM
Yeah, that is something to think about. Geez, now I am paranoid. I ususally sign for deliveries. I check for package damage, not so much who the package is from. OY.

Same here. I'm the one who's always signing for deliveries where I work. I check for damage and who it's going to. And we do get some awfully wonky/suspicious-looking packages from people who have no idea how to repack a machine to send it for repairs.

Perks
11-03-2008, 11:18 PM
I'm not necessarily concerned that this 'bomber' character is serious. From what I know of their sort, they like carnage, not months on chain-yanking.

The bullets, however, if they are related, are a bit concerning.

I haven't heard of any of the Monday fallout yet.

benbradley
11-03-2008, 11:26 PM
I'm not necessarily concerned that this 'bomber' character is serious. From what I know of their sort, they like carnage, not months on chain-yanking.

The bullets, however, if they are related, are a bit concerning.

I haven't heard of any of the Monday fallout yet.
I can't imagine how stray bullets would not be related.

But as far as fallout, no doubt the poop is hitting the fan right now somewhere in that company.

Jcomp
11-03-2008, 11:55 PM
I'm not necessarily concerned that this 'bomber' character is serious. From what I know of their sort, they like carnage, not months on chain-yanking.


Exactly. You have to take it somewhat seriously as a precaution, but usually, if somebody's gone through the trouble of actually planting a bomb and really want to blow people the hell up, they usually don't call in advance. If they do call in advance, they usually have some sort of demands in mind.

Yeshanu
11-04-2008, 02:06 AM
Exactly. You have to take it somewhat seriously as a precaution, but usually, if somebody's gone through the trouble of actually planting a bomb and really want to blow people the hell up, they usually don't call in advance. If they do call in advance, they usually have some sort of demands in mind.


Actually, from what I've experienced, they do call in advance, because the biggest part of the bomb threat or actually bombing is the media attention.

And often, the bombers don't want to blow people up -- their aim is to disrupt or even end production.

My dad's workplace was actually bombed (http://books.google.ca/books?id=9HRClitXq7UC&pg=PA477&lpg=PA477&dq=litton+systems+bombing&source=bl&ots=feDemRpnVF&sig=Pk9hhMU_eQbRHDcyVzC_MI1ubS4&hl=en&sa=X&oi=book_result&resnum=1&ct=result#PPA477,M1) in the early eighties by a group that later claimed that they were "sorry" for the injuries to employees.

Personally, I strongly feel that if you're protesting the manufacture of bombs, you shouldn't use bombs as your method of action against said companies...

Back to Perks' situation: Given that whoever is doing this actually has access to ammunition, I'd be taking it very seriously indeed.

MarkEsq
11-04-2008, 06:30 PM
Hi folks,
Sorry for not appearing before but I am on holiday in SW France with limited internet and a bloody annoying French keyboard! Typing takes twice as long (the period is above the semi_colon, and as you can see, I couldn't even find the hyphen!).

It looks like your issue has been resolved, Perks. I think I would tend towards the minority position and view the incident as incredibly thoughtless, inconvenient, and ill-(found the hyphen!)conceived but not illegal. I think a newspaper article might stop a repeat of that scenario but it does seem like it's been resolved. The thing is, they did/do have an obligation to try and protect you and I think this was, for one day, their crappy way of doing it. And it being private property they can implement pretty much any restriction for access, though the posters are correct in that it would be illegal to prevent you from leaving, kidnapping effectively. But, legal to fire you probably.

Anyway, thanks for having faith in my opinion but (hopefully) it is moot now!

Au revoir from La Belle France!

Perks
11-04-2008, 09:39 PM
Thanks for your advice! And on vacation and everything. What a guy.

Have a great time!

HeronW
11-04-2008, 09:57 PM
Sounds a bit like forced detainment tettering on kidnapping. The Plant Mgr had no right to make 500 people wait for 9 hours. He could have said, go home. He could have asked for proper authorites, but he was an ass, and a class action lawsuit wouldn't be out of the question.

Perks
11-05-2008, 01:23 AM
Yeah, I don't know what to think. They were told they were not allowed to leave. If that's borderline on its way to illegal, I'm not sure how they could have fired anyone for not cooperating.

They are quite tetchy about people complaining and have been known to offer severance packages in lieu of working things out. Some people are still absolutely furious about what happened on Friday.

I guess I'd have to argue that the plant manager asking everyone two obvious questions and having them write their names hardly made anyone any safer.