What makes you feel guilty?

I once felt obligated to tell a friend her son had been arrested (along with 5 other boys) late one night on a beach trip after high school graduation. My son (always the lucky one) wasn't involved.

What I should have done, as you say, was tell her to call her son immediately. It would have forced him to face the music and she wouldn't have felt humiliated in front of me. It soured our relationship for a bit, but everything's OK now.

I muttered something under my breath once, and the person heard it. It wasn't such a big deal, really, but I felt like a total b*tch for days.

I just wrote a narky comment to George the Weightloss Man over in the Writers Wanted for Paying Markets area. He said he was a perfectionist, but his punctuation was flawed, so I asked: "You're not the editor are you?"

Now I feel a little guilty for being a bit mean.

Actually, I feel even more guilty by referencing (ie, identifying) the source of guilt...

I don't think guilty is how I'd feel if/when I accidentally hurt someone. I think guilt would come from knowingly hurting someone and regretting it.

If I learn or later realize that something I said or did hurt someone, I'd feel... hmm... what's the word? Contrition maybe? I'd feel sad and compelled to make it right. But not guilty.

Last year I had an ad designer for a newspaper ad really screw up our format, and then send the thing to print before showing me a proof. I had worked for days with him to explain the specs, and specified several times that I needed to see it before it was set. So, needless to say, I was furious, and I wrote this long, cold, and extremely scathing email to my bosses (both of whom know what a bitch I can be) explaining in detail what he had done, where he had screwed up, and how I was going to take it up with their accounting folks and we weren't going to pay for a dime of the cost.



Yep. I hit reply, not forward, and didn't think to look at the address field until after it was gone. He definitely deserved to get spanked, but not like that. I still cringe when I think about it.

When I was in junior high it rained hard and long enough that they canceled school. I called up my best friend and said "Guess what! They canceled school!" She did not respond in a happy manner so I was kind of put out and kept trying to make her happy. Then she told me her dad's truck had been hit by a falling tree. I said, "Is he okay?"

No. No, he wasn't okay. He was dead.

I realize I did nothing worthy of feeling guilty there, but I can't help it, to this day. I feel like I should have realized sooner, should have caught on to her tone, should NOT have asked such a dumbass question, etc.

My dad went out jogging at 5:15 on Monday night. At 5:20 somebody hit him with his motorcycle. A moment's inattention (still don't know whether the cyclist wasn't paying attention or my dad) and now Dad's in critical condition in the neuro trauma ICU at Shock Trauma. (ETA: The police called; the biker was speeding. He tried to lay down the bike to avoid hitting my dad, but the bike kept going and hit him anyway.)

A guy down the hall from my dad was riding his motorcycle when a car turned suddenly in front of him and cut him off. He has been at Shock Trauma for three weeks and will be there for many, many more because of a moment's inattention.

I'm very certain that neither of these incidents was intentional. I'm also sure that both drivers feel immense guilt.

Scrawler said:

I don't think guilty is how I'd feel if/when I accidentally hurt someone. I think guilt would come from knowingly hurting someone and regretting it.

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I agree with this. The idea of intentionally causing harm to another leaves me with guilt.

Unintentional? Not so much guilt about it. The best I can do at that point is apologize, explain what happened and hope it's accepted. If not, then their problem and no longer mine.

But if I go out of my way to cause harm...then I'd better be sure I can live with it and that it's necessary. So, causing harm doesn't always cause guilt but when it's done with maliciousness.

Rabe...

Rabe said:

I agree with this. The idea of intentionally causing harm to another leaves me with guilt.

Unintentional? Not so much guilt about it. The best I can do at that point is apologize, explain what happened and hope it's accepted. If not, then their problem and no longer mine.

But if I go out of my way to cause harm...then I'd better be sure I can live with it and that it's necessary. So, causing harm doesn't always cause guilt but when it's done with maliciousness.

Rabe...

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I think I feel rather the opposite. I seldom want to harm someone, but when I do, it's for reasons I feel are justified. After that, I don't feel guilty, though I might regret the necessity.

Where I do feel guilty is when I hurt someone inadvertently. I didn't mean them to feel bad, and now they do. And often, because it's inadvertent, it's difficult to fix.

I ride a trials motorcycle. It is a low speed sport and generally very safe. It is catagorized as an extreme sport in the same sense as skiing. Something anyone can do, or that with the same equipment and slope can be taken to a psychotic level. (Here is a short video my son put together after the world round in Tennessee this last summer. It's a great sport and growing and should really catch on here in the States as off road riding land disappears because you don't need much space to do it.) But the bikes are EXTREMELY powerful and can be dangerous to the uninitiated. Especially my 300cc two-stroke with 14:1 compression. I didn't appreciate this when I was trying to get a close friend interested in the sport. A guy I've been friends with since college. About 20 years. Family guy, great dad, etc.

Well I get him on the bike, didn't have to force him, and he's doing great. Low speed. Safe. Right? Next thing I know I hear the motor screaming and turn around. He's got the throttle pinned and is hanging on for dear life, doing a wheelstand across a parking lot straight toward my Expedition. It's like slow motion. You can't believe it's happening. That sort of thing. He hits the rear of my SUV doing about 17 mph, caves in the back tail gate, the window explodes, he slams into the bike, and just drops to the ground like a limp rag. Blood everywhere. I just knew he was dead as I sat there on the ground holding his head in my hands telling him he was going to be okay. At that point I was amazingly calm.

EMT's, ambulance, the works. After that, I'm no longer calm, when my wife finds me sitting in a dark store room crying.

ICU. Surgery. Facing his family. Etc.

Well he's pretty much fine today except for the titanium and polyethylene plates in his face. He looks a little different. Not worse, just different. And he doesn't blame me. But I'll carry the guilt of that day to my grave. I haven't quit the sport but I did sell the bike and get another one since every time the engine spooled up the whole scene flashed through my head.

And I don't let anybody on my Montesa unless I know they are an experienced motorcycle pilot and have mastered clutch use and know to let the bike go if things go south.

So while it wasn't my fault, it was my fault. I should have understood the danger posed by the machine to someone who wasn't experienced in its operation.

Oh dear, there are too many things to list, and if I did, it would reflect rather badly. In the end though, the one consistent thing which makes me feel guilty as sin, is spending money.

Mad Queen...

Here's my problem with your scenarios:

The drunk doctor and the cellphone talking motorist.

Both have engaged in activities which they <i>should</i> have known could lead to harm. Thereby they are not "unintentionally" harming someone. They are intentionally harming someone.

A doctor having a few drinks is okay. But a doctor having a few drinks and then going in and operating on someone? That is NOT okay. It's dangerous and intentional. Thereby, intentional harm.

Talking on the cellphone - okay. Driving - okay. But being distracted while operating a motor vehicle? Again, not so much okay. And the (hypothetical) fact that the driver hit someone makes the harm intentional. The driver should have known being distracted by the conversation would be dangerous. Again, intentional.

So, when I say that I feel guilty about <i>intentionally</i> harming someone, I would see the above examples as supporting my case. Rather than a doctor - who is sober and full control of his faculties, accidentally nicking the aorta or driving along and an accident happened.

But for me to go out of my way to bring harm to a person, that is most definitely intentional harm and thereby feeling guilty.

But accidentally saying something that upset someone else? Or some of the other examples on here of someone doing something unintentionally? Nope, no guilt. Guilt should be a manifestation of a consequence of our intended actions...not a manifestion of a random event.

Rabe...

The drunk doctor and the cellphone talking motorist.

Both have engaged in activities which they <i>should</i> have known could lead to harm. Thereby they are not "unintentionally" harming someone. They are intentionally harming someone.

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I disagree with this. Yes, drinking before surgery and talking while on a motorcycle can lead to harm, but it's not intentional harm of anyone. The doctor did not pick up his glass of vodka and think to himself, "Well, I'll make the nurse tell the kids their dad is dead when I slice the wrong way" or whatever.

Everyone engages in activities that we "should" know can lead to harm, but we don't go into them intending to hurt anyone, so therefore the harm that comes out of it is not intentional. Yes, the actions are intentional, but the effects of the actions are definitely not.

Regardless of intentional or unintentional injury to another person, I would feel guilty about it. I am a very guilt-ridden person all the time, though, and it's pretty much my dominating emotion. I feel like I've just swallowed a slice of the guilt pie after I embarrass someone, even if it's unintentional, or even after I tell my sister to stop PMSing, even if it's intentional.

I can't change what I feel, although I can try to suppress it; even so, guilt will always be there, no matter if it's a "manifestation of a random event" or something I should actually feel bad about it. Chances are that if I was around when the event occurred, I'm going to feel guilty and regretful about not doing something differently to change the outcome.

Once I asked one of my good friends how her Mother's Day was when her mom had just died two weeks before. Her face kind of fell and she didn't say much. Instantly realizing I had asked a stupid question, I awkwardly launched into an animated description of what my family did for Mother's Day (trying to lighten things up) while she sat quietly listening. I should have just stopped and said "Gee, Nance, I'm sorry. That was a really dumb question. How have you been holding up?"

Mad Queen said:

Not even if you had been selfish or lazy or negligent? For instance, you are a doctor, drink too much and cut a patient's artery by accident during surgery.

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Well, if I got drunk prior to surgery, then I'd consider that intentional so yeah, I'd be guilty.
If I went to the grocery store and was too lazy to return the shopping cart to its proper corral and it dinged a car-- I'm guilty.
If I returned the cart to the corral in good faith and it got loose and dinged a car, I wouldn't feel guilty.
Not to say that I'd be emotionless but I don't think guilt is what I'd feel.