Being Catholic

Alpha Echo · Oct 16, 2008

My characters are all going to be Catholic. My MC is a very active woman in the church.

I grew up Baptist and know nothing about Catholisim, or not very much anyway. What types of activities would she be involved in as a woman in the church? What about her husband? Is there any truth to the "Catholic guilt?" A true Catholic, someone who grew up in a strict Catholic home and now is married to a strict Catholic man....what would her major beliefs be and how would that affect her daily life?

Basically, anything you can tell me about being Catholic would be great.

Thanks!

MaryMumsy · Oct 16, 2008

Grew up sort of Catholic, lapsed forever ago, so can't really answer your questions. But, location and era will have a major impact.

MM

pconsidine · Oct 16, 2008

I grew up in an Irish-Italian Catholic house, but I'm not sure how much of the stuff that happened was because of being Catholic or incidental to it. I mean, did my grandmother's guilt-inducing martyr complex come from being Catholic or just from being married to my grandfather?

Mary's right, though - time and place make a huge difference to what your characters might experience. For example, if you're talking pre-Vatican II, there would still be the Latin mass. After that, there wouldn't. There was also a big evangelical movement in the 70s that alienated a lot of more traditional Catholics, but supposedly brought in a lot of young people. So where and when will be critical to their experience.

Out of curiosity, what made you decide to write about Catholic main characters?

Alpha Echo · Oct 16, 2008

MaryMumsy said:
Grew up sort of Catholic, lapsed forever ago, so can't really answer your questions. But, location and era will have a major impact.

MM

They're in NYC, modern day.

underthecity · Oct 16, 2008

There are activities inside the physical church she can participate in, but what they are escape me at the moment. Is she a parent? If so, there are lots of things going on that parents, especially mothers, help out in: fish fries, festivals, things like that. The husband might be an usher or a reader, and would also help out in festivals from time to time. (Although my father never did. My mother seemed to thrive on them.)

Regarding beliefs and Catholic guilt, I'd suggest you check out this thread I started a few months ago that addresses some issues that might affect your characters.

Catholic guilt and old fashioned beliefs are very real. My wife's extremely Catholic grandmother was mother to eleven children. My wife told me that her grandma had told one of her daughters (maybe all of them, I don't know) that when it was time to have sex with their husbands, that they should lay there, stare at the ceiling and say Hail Marys until it was over with. Strange thing for a mother of eleven to say, but there it is.

If your characters are extremely Catholic, then they'll be going to Church every Sunday, don't eat meat on Fridays during Lent, will go to Confession semi-regularly, will have at least one Crucifix in the house, maybe a small bottle of holy water, will probably not say the Lord's name in vain, and the female might not even wear anything too revealing. She will probably also wear a silver cross around her neck.

They might participate in church-related marriage retreats and definitely any kind of social function the church will put on.

There are books you might want to check out that will answer all of your questions: Growing up Catholic and More Growing up Catholic. I have both, they're quite truthful. Funny, too.

Hope that helps,

allen (grew up Catholic, now am rejecting it)

Clio · Oct 16, 2008

Lapsed catholic here. I would definitely agree with what the other posters have said about time and place playing a huge part here. But what struck me was your comment that your MC 'was very active in the Church'.

Now, obviously, we can all speak only from our own point of view - and our own time and place - but being active in the Catholic Church as late as the 1970s/80s in my home town in England, meant little more than singing in the choir, dressing the altar with flowers for mass, perhaps running the odd errand for Father, and some charity work. If your MC is living in a time prior to this, I can't honestly see her having an active role to play beyond the examples I've given. The Catholic Church in my day (I can't speak for the present) was still a very male-dominated society; the idea of women having any policy-making role or influence would have been unthinkable.

Oh - before I sign off - I have just thought of one area in which she could be involved: the St. Vincent de Paul Society. Google this and see what you come up with. But I suspect that even here, women were given a secondary role.

Hope I've helped and not hindered

Good luck with your project.

Alpha Echo · Oct 16, 2008

Clio said:
Lapsed catholic here. I would definitely agree with what the other posters have said about time and place playing a huge part here. But what struck me was your comment that your MC 'was very active in the Church'.

Now, obviously, we can all speak only from our own point of view - and our own time and place - but being active in the Catholic Church as late as the 1970s/80s in my home town in England, meant little more than singing in the choir, dressing the altar with flowers for mass, perhaps running the odd errand for Father, and some charity work. If your MC is living in a time prior to this, I can't honestly see her having an active role to play beyond the examples I've given. The Catholic Church in my day (I can't speak for the present) was still a very male-dominated society; the idea of women having any policy-making role or influence would have been unthinkable.

Oh - before I sign off - I have just thought of one area in which she could be involved: the St. Vincent de Paul Society. Google this and see what you come up with. But I suspect that even here, women were given a secondary role.

Hope I've helped and not hindered Good luck with your project.

Nope, you didn't hinder. See, I didn't know that. I grew up in a church where women and men both have opportunities to be very active. I didn't know in a Catholic church that's different.

So thank you!

dirtsider · Oct 16, 2008

Underthecity gave a lot of good stuff.

There's also prayer groups that the wife might be involved in. But there are also the seminars and retreats that either she or both can go to. The husband can also be a deacon if he's willing to put in about 4 years of effort.

You might want to go to a local Catholic Church and talk to someone at their offices. They might have the answers you need.

citymouse · Oct 16, 2008

I grew up in a tiny town where there were a mere 500 Catholics; not families but total parishioners.
My mother, taught me my Catechism (Who made You? Why did God make you? etc), the rosary, the Apostles Creed and her favorite, the Act of Contrition! "I detest all my sins because I dread the loss of Heaven and the pains of Hell" And mommie dearest!
She was a member of the choir which meant she had to read and sing Latin. The choir director insisted that the singers know the meaning of the words so that they could sing the Latin with expression.
She was a member of the altar guild. These women washed the priestly white vestments which are the Alb and the Amice. She washed the white altar linens, provided flowers for the altar, swept and washed the wooden floor in the church, polished the pews. The parish was poor so the windows where clear glass. The women washed these as well.

Catholic guilt you ask? Well, in my third novel my MC, "...felt the stab of guilt only Catholic and Jewish mothers can inflict. In a flash of memory that seemed like hours, he gave way under the crush of his own past heartache." Now where do you think that came from?

You've set you self a hard task. It's not impossible but it will be real work. If I were you, and clearly I'm not, I'd find a Catholic who knows the labyrinthine world of the Catholic mind, one would be willing to sit with you while you write. You don't say when your story takes place. As has been observed this would impact greatly on the Catholic mindset of your characters.
Good luck with your story.
C

Alpha Echo · Oct 16, 2008

This is a modern day story.

My MC grew up Catholic and leads a Catholic life, but she is miserable with it. She has lost her faith, and she only goes through the motions because that is what is expected of her.

I don't think it's going to play a HUGE roll in the story...it definitely is not the main plot...but it's going to propel the story forward.

pconsidine · Oct 16, 2008

Alpha Echo said:
They're in NYC, modern day.

Hmmm...this is actually an interesting dynamic. My parents both grew up in the NYC area (my dad in Harlem and my mom just north of the city). Urban Catholics are a somewhat different thing these days. In my parents' time, it was much more clannish, the church being most people's only social circle as well as their religion, but I think that's changed. In my experience, urban Catholics tend to be a bit less dogmatic when it comes to certain theological matters, so a truly devout urban Catholic may wind up somewhat at odds with their peers on some matters (especially in New York).

TerzaRima · Oct 16, 2008

Alpha, I grew up in the 70s and early 80s and was raised (very traditionally) Catholic by first generation Americans. I'm now, I guess you could say, lapsed, alienated, whatever.

IME the circa 2008 American Church seems to be a very different animal, in terms of its influence on daily life and the guilt you describe. People raising their families now are boomers and generation Xers who are more secular in orientation and less likely to accept Church teachings on contraception, abortion, etc. and less likely to follow all the minutiae (no meat on Lenten Fridays, fasting on Ash Wednesday and Good Friday, nothing by mouth one hour before Communion) Much, much less likely.

For a dead-on look at this world, read Mary Gordon's Final Payments. But in terms of any universal truths about American Catholics today, that's going to be a lot tougher to come up with. I think they're a less interesting bunch now precisely because they're less guilt ridden and they do have more options--in short, they're more like everybody else. Could you set your story in the 1960s?

mrockwell · Oct 16, 2008

I'd suggest you start with the Archdiocese of New York website:

http://www.ny-archdiocese.org/

Find a parish (church) in the area you're writing about, or one you just like, if you're not particular about area (or one you can model a fictional church after, if you're going that route). Most churches have a list of ministries on their websites which will give you a good indication of the activities available to your MC.

Depending on her age -- if she's retired, she would probably attend daily Mass as well as the Rosary in addition to whatever other activities she might be part of. If she works, then Sunday Mass, and those activities offered on weekday evenings or weekends (a lot of Church groups are geared toward retirees, so meet during the day). It will also make a difference if she has kids and if so, what age they are. If they are school-aged, she will probably send them to Catholic school, which has its own set of activities that go along with it.

Let's see, what else? A PP said that the Latin (Tridentine) Mass is no longer offered, but this is not correct -- a lot of parishes never stopped offering it, and many more are starting to offer it again. Again, a look at the parish website will tell you if that particular church offers it or not (probably not relevant to your story, but just in case).

Finally, I have to say that generally, when people are going through a dry spell and questioning their faith, they tend to avoid the Church and drop out of activities that they used to take part in, so depending on where your MC is at in her own soul-searching, she might not be doing any more than your average Catholic -- attending Sunday Mass, observing Lent, and maybe going to Confession (though people tend to avoid that when their faith is slipping, too).

HTH, and feel free to PM with questions -- I'm at my own local parish at least 5 days a week.

-- Marcy

Alpha Echo · Oct 16, 2008

pconsidine said:
Out of curiosity, what made you decide to write about Catholic main characters?

I'm not sure...as I was getting to know my characters and planning to begin writing, it just seemed right that they be Catholic. Just one of those things, you know?

Alpha Echo · Oct 16, 2008

mrockwell said:
Depending on her age -- if she's retired, she would probably attend daily Mass as well as the Rosary in addition to whatever other activities she might be part of. If she works, then Sunday Mass, and those activities offered on weekday evenings or weekends (a lot of Church groups are geared toward retirees, so meet during the day). It will also make a difference if she has kids and if so, what age they are. If they are school-aged, she will probably send them to Catholic school, which has its own set of activities that go along with it.

My MC is a well-off housewife. She has one daughter who is 10. She grew up with very strict Catholic parents, went to Catholic school, and after her first marriage failed married a very controlling man who also grew up in a strict Catholic household (their parents were friends). Because of some things that happened in her past, she doubts God. But she's given up on some things, so she follows what she knows her parents and husband expect of her. It's easier that way for her. (at the beginning at least

)

johnnysannie · Oct 16, 2008

Clio said:
Lapsed catholic here. I would definitely agree with what the other posters have said about time and place playing a huge part here. But what struck me was your comment that your MC 'was very active in the Church'.

Now, obviously, we can all speak only from our own point of view - and our own time and place - but being active in the Catholic Church as late as the 1970s/80s in my home town in England, meant little more than singing in the choir, dressing the altar with flowers for mass, perhaps running the odd errand for Father, and some charity work. If your MC is living in a time prior to this, I can't honestly see her having an active role to play beyond the examples I've given. The Catholic Church in my day (I can't speak for the present) was still a very male-dominated society; the idea of women having any policy-making role or influence would have been unthinkable.

Oh - before I sign off - I have just thought of one area in which she could be involved: the St. Vincent de Paul Society. Google this and see what you come up with. But I suspect that even here, women were given a secondary role.

Hope I've helped and not hindered Good luck with your project.

Clio makes some good points here. After Vatican II, the level of female participation in the church expanded over time, sooner in some places (within the US) than others.

Up to the early 1980's, at least, women might be active in the Altar Guild or St. Vicent De Paul or possibly as a lay teacher for CCD (Catholic Child Development) or the current (in my parish anyway) PSR (Parish School of Religion).

WendyNYC · Oct 16, 2008

Is your MC in Manhattan or a borough? All the Catholic moms I know with kids that age send them to the Narnia classes. A small detail, but it might help.

How "well off" is this housewife?

Alpha Echo · Oct 16, 2008

WendyNYC said:
Is your MC in Manhattan or a borough? All the Catholic moms I know with kids that age send them to the Narnia classes. A small detail, but it might help.

How "well off" is this housewife?

She's in Manhattan and very well off. Grew up with money in Central Park South, never had to worry about money except while she was with her first husband because her parents disapproved and cut her off. Now she's married to a man who is also from money and who makes money as a lawyer. They live in one of those ridiculously huge 4000 square foot brickstones townhouses.

WendyNYC · Oct 16, 2008

I don't think I've ever heard anyone refer to that stretch of 59th Street as "Central Park South" even though it says that on the maps. You might want to change that to 5th Ave or CPW anyway, since those are more residential. And it's "brownstone" townhouses, or, if it's wider, it's a mansion, technically. Although people would probably just say either "brownstone" (skinnier and brown) or "townhouse" (could be either). A huge townhouse would be more like 10,000+ sq ft and would cost probably 20mil+, depending on the street. Is she that well off?

Alpha Echo · Oct 16, 2008

WendyNYC said:
I don't think I've ever heard anyone refer to that stretch of 59th Street as "Central Park South" even though it says that on the maps. You might want to change that to 5th Ave or CPW anyway, since those are more residential. And it's "brownstone" townhouses, or, if it's wider, it's a mansion, technically. Although people would probably just say either "brownstone" (skinnier and brown) or "townhouse" (could be either). A huge townhouse would be more like 10,000+ sq ft and would cost probably 20mil+, depending on the street. Is she that well off?

I knew brickstone was wrong! Haha, I am really an idiot....see how UN-well off I am?

Maybe the brownstone on 5th Ave (thank you by the way) has been in the family and was inherited. I know that a lot of people I knew while living on Long Island were rich because they inhertied the old money, not because they actually made the money themselves.

WendyNYC · Oct 16, 2008

Alpha Echo said:
I knew brickstone was wrong! Haha, I am really an idiot....see how UN-well off I am?

Maybe the brownstone on 5th Ave (thank you by the way) has been in the family and was inherited. I know that a lot of people I knew while living on Long Island were rich because they inhertied the old money, not because they actually made the money themselves.

If she grew up in a townhouse, make it on a side street. There aren't any that I can think of on 5th or CPW. Alternatively, she could live in a penthouse or a duplex on 5th, Park, or CPW if you want her to be posh and old-money.

FennelGiraffe · Oct 16, 2008

Alpha Echo said:
after her first marriage failed married a very controlling man

I'm not Catholic, so maybe I'm all wrong, but this sounds like she's divorced and remarried. Isn't that still an issue for Catholics?

maxmordon · Oct 16, 2008

FennelGiraffe said:
I'm not Catholic, so maybe I'm all wrong, but this sounds like she's divorced and remarried. Isn't that still an issue for Catholics?

It's indeed is for traditional and conservaties Catholics, the Church considers you married for the rest of your life with your spouse, even if you legally divorced and remarried again. You are still welcome to the Church and recieve the sacraments, but you can't remarried by the church until you ask permission to the Pope. What is hard.

I am a Catholic, but when you live in a country with 90% of the population being at least nominally Catholic, I can't help you in this.

Alpha Echo · Oct 16, 2008

FennelGiraffe said:
I'm not Catholic, so maybe I'm all wrong, but this sounds like she's divorced and remarried. Isn't that still an issue for Catholics?

Oh, I forgot about this. What if the ex-husband was the one to leave? He was. Does that make a difference in the way the church acts towards the MC?

mrockwell · Oct 16, 2008

I was divorced and got remarried in the Church. I was a non-Catholic and had not been baptized in any Christian faith when I got married the first time, so I was able to apply to the Pope for something called the Petrine Privilege, but that's pretty unusual. MOST people who are divorced and want to get remarried in the Catholic Church have to go through the annulment process, which goes before a Diocesan Tribunal, NOT the Pope. And the Church won't grant an annulment unless one of the parties is seeking to remarry within the Church. And they won't grant annulments for just any old reason -- it is NOT a "Catholic divorce," as I've heard it called. It's pretty complicated so, again, you can PM me if you have specific questions.

What would probably be easiest is if you have the MC's ex-husband remarried in the Church, having been granted an annulment, as that will leave the MC free to remarry herself. (Of course, if he wants an annulment and she won't agree to it, then that could add a whole new layer of conflict to the story -- maybe more than you want, heh).

-- Marcy

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