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View Full Version : I need ANOTHER fatal gunshot wound



gwendy85
10-16-2008, 08:15 AM
DISREGARD TITLE WHEN YOU ACCESSED THIS LINK, it's only "near" fatal. :Shrug:

Hey guyz! Thanks again for the replies! It's clarified everything for me and I have closed the issue of that character's gunshot wound. It'll be the head, just a graze of the bullet but lotsa blood, and a concussion. And I've decided to just have him pass out immediately.

But as I reviewed my novel, there's actually ANOTHER character that needs a near fatal gunshot wound (it's World War II, so lotsa people get shot, haha!)

The character is a girl in her late teens, recently recovered from Malaria (though not fully recovered). Food is scarce so she isn't really getting the nourishment she needs and she's in plain clothes when she's shot (I'm stating this 'coz it may affect the overall impact of the wound). She is running away from the enemy when she is shot.

In my most recent edit, she is shot at the side of her abdomen. Not sure where the bullet should hit, but it's shot from quite a distance, by a Japanese rifle, maybe an Arisaka (not sure if that was the exact name). I say quite a distance because I really don't want this to be fatal, but serious enough for her to bleed profusely until she passes out.

My questions:

1.) With the type of rifle mentioned, what should be the distance of her assailant?

2.) With the type of rifle mentioned, where exactly in the abdominal area should the bullet hit her for her to bleed enough to faint?

3.) What would be the long term effects of the wound?

4.) How long will it take for my character to recover? Also, if possible, I'm looking for a severe wound, but something that can be recovered from quicker because she'll need to be up and running by the next chapters.

5.) She has a doctor with her. What should the doctor do in the first critical minutes to ensure that she survives?

Thank you so much again for all the answers, and I'll be looking to hear more from you guys soon. I love AW!!!

willfulone
10-16-2008, 09:32 AM
In my most recent edit, she is shot at the side of her abdomen. Not sure where the bullet should hit, but it's shot from quite a distance, by a Japanese rifle, maybe an Arisaka (not sure if that was the exact name). I say quite a distance because I really don't want this to be fatal, but serious enough for her to bleed profusely until she passes out.

My questions:

1.) With the type of rifle mentioned, what should be the distance of her assailant? Someone else will have to help with this one.

2.) With the type of rifle mentioned, where exactly in the abdominal area should the bullet hit her for her to bleed enough to faint? Can hit anywhere. In her condition - weak from illness and malnutrition, she could faint with a punch to the gut. Blood loss or not will not be a factor in the fainting so much. Unless you wish to make it so. Not with the other issues she faces already. So, your area should only be worried about for the blood (if you seek that for effect) and what you wish to do to her.

3.) What would be the long term effects of the wound? This is going to vary depending upon where you hit her. If you hit her in the spleen, it may need to be removed and will most assuredly require surgical intervention of some sort. Bleeding with this type of hit, can be fatal. Ruptured spleens are not always fatal, but are very critical. But, aside from things like insulin production stopping for lack of spleen, there may be no future rammifications that are evident besides her scar. If she is far away from assistance, this is not a good shot to hit her with. For blood loss in a rapid manner is to be expected with a ruptured spleen. If it is a gut shot - surviving or not - septcemia and complications of such would be available for future detail. And there are lots of long term effects. Things like colostomy bags, etc being necessary depending upon what organs you compromise with your hit. You could just hit her flesh and have the bullet do a through and through. It would be enough to knock her out and not leave her so compromised. But, then again, her malnutrition and her prior recent fever would affect her healing in any type of shot she had. She could have all sort of recovery complications due to those two things that could add to your story - weakened body taking longer to recover.

4.) How long will it take for my character to recover? To be believable, longer than a healthy person would. But, depends upon how hurt you want her to be. If passing out is only goal - she could recover in a reasonable time even with her compromises. When you decide on shot and how much damage, then one could predict and specify more accurately recovery times. Also, if possible, I'm looking for a severe wound, but something that can be recovered from quicker because she'll need to be up and running by the next chapters. Then rethink your wound to this girl. Malnutrition and recent illness are not good predictors to assist her in rapid healing. And certainly not healing that would allow for physical exertion of any length. Thus, you may really want to consider a through and through flesh shot that does not damage anything inside at all. And just worry about infection at site wound as a compromise.

5.) She has a doctor with her. What should the doctor do in the first critical minutes to ensure that she survives? Triage. Assess damage by viewing, taking pulse, respirations, stop blood flow, pressure to wound, clearing wound of any debris, stitching and/or dressing and making sure she is hydrated. Care in travel to rest. Or getting her to safe place to rest so cleaning of wound and wound care is available for healing at pace you need to happen for your next chapters.

Thank you so much again for all the answers, and I'll be looking to hear more from you guys soon. I love AW!!!

Good luck - let me know if you have more questions or if you further plot and post so that more detail may be given to assist if possible.

Christine

RJK
10-16-2008, 05:53 PM
A through and through at the lower chest cavity would produce a sucking chest wound. Without immediate care she would suffocate. The doctor would need to apply gauze patches with something like petroleum jelly on them over the bullet holes, to seal the wounds, then bandage the chest. Unless the bullet hit a lung, she could be up and running in a couple of days.

Chase
10-16-2008, 10:30 PM
1.) With the type of rifle mentioned, what should be the distance of her assailant?

All but the first question are past my expertise and into the area of medicine. About the Arisaka rifle you mentioned, here are some details from Twentieth-Century Small Arms and reloading manuals:

The bolt-action 5-round repeater was designated "38th Year" rifle (the year of the Japanese emperor's reign) and was standard infantry issue 1907-1944. It fired the 6.5mm Japanese Service rifle cartridge (.265 caliber).

In the early to mid 1940s, that relatively light bullet was made even lighter by the use of steel instead of scarcer lead. That factor would reduce extreme effective range to under 500 meters. The bullet would not tend to expand or fragment, and reduced velocity and energy would tend to keep the wound channel narrow. As RJK implied, a through-and-through wound would be likely.

You are really chosing your weapons and probable ammo to the best effect of the wounds you seek. Seems as though you're quite the ballistics expert yourself, Gwendy.

mrockwell
10-16-2008, 11:50 PM
I don't have any wisdom to offer you, but when I saw the title of the thread, I couldn't help thinking, "Man, she kills a lot of people!" LOL!

-- Marcy

Deb Kinnard
10-17-2008, 02:35 AM
quote, above: "things like insulin production stopping for lack of spleen"

Injury to the spleen does not stop insulin production. Injury to the pancreas does. A person can live quite nicely without the spleen, but the pancreas--uh-uh.

If she were hit from behind and you need her to be badly hurt, I'd have the bullet enter around the small of the back and nick a kidney. She can bleed into her urinary tract; she'll know this is happening in the usual way (G). It can be as bad as you want it: the worse the injury should be, the deeper your gunshot will have penetrated into the kidney. It can be a minor nick or really louse the organ up.

Good luck almost-offing people!

willfulone
10-17-2008, 03:09 AM
quote, above: "things like insulin production stopping for lack of spleen"

Injury to the spleen does not stop insulin production. Injury to the pancreas does. A person can live quite nicely without the spleen, but the pancreas--uh-uh.

If she were hit from behind and you need her to be badly hurt, I'd have the bullet enter around the small of the back and nick a kidney. She can bleed into her urinary tract; she'll know this is happening in the usual way (G). It can be as bad as you want it: the worse the injury should be, the deeper your gunshot will have penetrated into the kidney. It can be a minor nick or really louse the organ up.

Good luck almost-offing people!

Doh! You are right, I named wrong organ. Sorry.

MagicMan
10-17-2008, 03:32 AM
For your description,

An upper leg, with a .303 / 7.7x58mm Type 99 rifle shell going completely through the leg. The shot from over 100 yards would be a fluke hit, even at 100 yards a normal soldier would miss more than hit.

That hit would spin the character, even launch that leg into the air like a kick, causes severe pain and could cause a fair amount of bleeding. She would bleed out, if the doctor wasn't present. She would be fine to move with a limp as soon as the wound is stitched.

The exit wound of course is larger than the entry wound, dependant on the speed of the bullet.

gwendy85
10-17-2008, 08:34 AM
Thanks again guyz for the replies! I think I've cleared it all now. I think I'll go with a through and through, no internal organs hit but profuse bleeding will be present. Abdominal Area. Check.

One last thing. As far as my research goes, first aid requires for the patient to be lying on the unwounded side, and that they should NOT be given water. I guess this is wrong then? I may have just misread that.

As for initial reactions, I'm having my character sweat like crazy. She gets paler and colder, and she convulses. Is this how the effect should be with the shot and the shock?



You are really chosing your weapons and probable ammo to the best effect of the wounds you seek. Seems as though you're quite the ballistics expert yourself, Gwendy.

Not really, but thanks. I do pride myself in researching a lot on World War II weapons :D I held my very first Nambu at age 8. World War II Vintage. Very rusty too. T'was my grandpa's. He also had an Arisaka rifle, but that was much to heavy for me then and he didn't want me to go playing around with it. I chose these two particular weapons for both effect and sentimental value.........but don't go starting to think I'm trigger happy. Only thing I've been able to shoot in my life is a rubber duckie mounted on a shelf, and that was with a BB gun :tongue


Good luck almost-offing people! Haha, thanks! I'm lucky enough to have some great peeps from AW already!


I don't have any wisdom to offer you, but when I saw the title of the thread, I couldn't help thinking, "Man, she kills a lot of people!" LOL!

-- Marcy You should read my last several chapters then. HAHA!

Thanks again for the quick responses guys!

willfulone
10-17-2008, 09:09 AM
Thanks again guyz for the replies! I think I've cleared it all now. I think I'll go with a through and through, no internal organs hit but profuse bleeding will be present. Abdominal Area. Check.

One last thing. As far as my research goes, first aid requires for the patient to be lying on the unwounded side, and that they should NOT be given water. I guess this is wrong then? I may have just misread that. On underlined: Not sure where you read that. I suppose it depends upon what you were researching when you read it - I mean severity of wound. IV fluids are given in ERs to sustain blood pressure and to prevent dehydration that comes with blood loss. Osmolarity being what it is - blood loss will cause the capillaries to leech fluids from surrounding tissue to bring into the veins where pressure is lower - pressure flows from highest areas into lowest pressure areas. Thus, she will dehydrate her own body trying to make up for blood loss and loss of blood pressure needed for organ function while she bleeds out or internally. To keep pressure up, it has to come from somewhere. Thus, fluids given to replace what body is leeching from itself. True, in severe abdominal wounds or wounds that an organ is hit, fluids orally would prolly be forgone until certain bodily organ function is optimal without oral liquids since they have the IV fluids. But, it is not likely your doctor has an IV bag of K+ tossed in his back pocket for such event. Thus, at some point, she will need fluids to thwart organ compromise that comes with dehydration. It does not have to be immediate water/fluids, but she will need them relatively soon. Probably sips during conscious moments. Especially due to her as yet unrecovered fever (malaria I think you said) and her malnutrition issues that will be a problem. The best bet would be sugar water - or such. For, shock can sometimes be thwarted with drinking a sugary soda. Likely he is not carrying that either - is he? It is always best to try to stay off a wound, but sometimes impossible. You will have to decide that when you get there.

As for initial reactions, I'm having my character sweat like crazy. She gets paler and colder, and she convulses. Is this how the effect should be with the shot and the shock? Sweat is believable for pain and shock. Pale and cold skin are also for shock, pain and blood loss. If blood loss is severe, extremity discoloration (blue fingertips/toenails) is also a possiblity as are blue lips. Loss of blood means less O2 in the blood reaching organs. The organs are canibals and will take the most O2 rich blood to use for themselves and the brain, leaving the other areas blue for the lack of O2 rich blood reaching them. Shivers more likely than convulsions. Although, I would not say that could not happen. So, you will have to go with your gut on that part.




Not really, but thanks. I do pride myself in researching a lot on World War II weapons :D I held my very first Nambu at age 8. World War II Vintage. Very rusty too. T'was my grandpa's. He also had an Arisaka rifle, but that was much to heavy for me then and he didn't want me to go playing around with it. I chose these two particular weapons for both effect and sentimental value.........but don't go starting to think I'm trigger happy. Only thing I've been able to shoot in my life is a rubber duckie mounted on a shelf, and that was with a BB gun :tongue

Haha, thanks! I'm lucky enough to have some great peeps from AW already!

You should read my last several chapters then. HAHA!

Thanks again for the quick responses guys!

Good Luck - hope it works and let us know if you have more questions. These have been good ones.

Christine

Chase
10-17-2008, 10:56 AM
.........but don't go starting to think I'm trigger happy. Only thing I've been able to shoot in my life is a rubber duckie mounted on a shelf, and that was with a BB gun

You ask for shooting expertise, then put down the practice necessary to deliver the information as something beneath a good person. Hmmm . . . must be done with such distasteful ilk . . . but one more bit of advice (courtesy Jean Shepherd's In God We Trust: All Others Pay Cash): Never shoot a BB at rubber; you'll shoot your eye out, Ralphie.

RJK
10-17-2008, 05:25 PM
Someone stating she has no experience in an activity should not be equated with someone who dislikes that activity. I have no experience with brain surgery but that doesn't mean that I look down upon brain surgeons. methinks someone is a bit too thin skinned. And yes, be careful or you'll shoot your eye out.

Chase
10-17-2008, 06:55 PM
"Don't go thinking I'm trigger happy" addressed specifically to me is a far cry from "someone stating she has no experience." As Willie really wrote, "The lady doth protest too much, methinks," and so doth RJK.

gwendy85
10-18-2008, 02:26 AM
Er....I meant that as a joke, hehe :D And oh yeah, the pellet richocheted pretty good. Must say I'm lucky to keep my eye and that was THE LAST TIME I'd ever try to shoot a rubber duckie.

Now on to plastic World War II soldiers haha! :tongue

Chase
10-18-2008, 02:51 AM
Um . . . I'm sure you caught my light banter, too. We're all just wild and crazy guys.