Crying hero

What would you think of a story where the hero has crying fits and temper tantrums? In the few stories I have written so far I have gone for the traditional hero type with the modern western hero qualities - he acts tough, doesn't show his feelings much and so forth - but I'd like to try something with a Kalevala type of hero. And they do act pretty immature, by modern standards anyway, a lot of the time. There are long descriptions of grown men bawling their eyes out, and having emotional outbursts when things don't go their way.

Ok, don't go for the standard 'as long as he is well written' -answer, please. Let's assume he was well written - do you think you'd be able to see a main character who acts like that as heroic?

If I use that type, it will be in a fantasy setting which will be also otherwise Kalevala influenced. I presume that would make it palatable for those who are familiar with Kalevala. What I'd like to know how it would seem like to those people who have no idea what Kalevala is.

Toothpaste said:

The thing about a temper tantrum is it is very self indulgent, I don't really see it as ever being representing something admirable. Now there is breaking down in tears because life has become unbearable, there is throwing something against a wall in a fit of spontaneous rage. But throwing a hissy fit, crying, wailing, banging your fists on the floor, it's something a petulant child does and something most adults would be deeply ashamed of admitting to doing.

If the point is to show a flawed character that's one thing, but not if the character is heroic.

Now this may be an issue of semantics. You may simply be asking, "Is it okay to have a hero cry in a book". If that is the question, definitely. But it truly has to come from a place of last resort, exhaustion, excessive emotion, dealing with great tragedy. Otherwise what you've got is a very flawed hero. Interesting, but I'm not sure if that's what you are going for.

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Mostly I guess I would like to see if I can make somebody who lives in a society with different ideas of what is ok for a hero to do palatable. The Kalevala heroes do sometimes have their temper tantrums for less than noble reasons, often the end result is something disastrous, then we get them crying over what they caused. But they are still treated as heroes by the poems. They are flawed, but that is seen as, well, normal. What makes them heroes is that they are larger than life in what they do. Well, in the old times people did use to have a different definition for a 'hero' than we do now.

Frankly I don't like them very much. I'm just intrigued by the question whether it would be possible to make somebody like that at all likeable, or at least sort of understandable.

Probably beyond my current skill level, but it might make for an interesting test.

Thanks all. Food for thought.

When it comes to those old time epic poems heroes (which Kalevala is, for those of you too lazy to google ) my theory has always been that a lot of their behavior can be explained by the fact that they were probably more or less drunk most of the time. Have you ever seen records of what amounts of beer were part of servants' wages in the middle ages? The general idea seems to be that in Europe at least, until fairly recent times, most of the stuff people drank was more or less alcoholic. So it was beer with breakfast, beer with midday meal, lots of beer or wine or stronger beer in the evening... and even if the beer in question wasn't particularly strong, if it was all our hero had he'd probably start to be more than a bit tipsy towards the evening.

So: mentions of the hero, and everybody around him, drinking beer or wine with every meal. Then in the evening hero and a friend enter an inn, he makes a suggestion to the innkeepers daughter and she turns him down, he broods into his beer for a moment, then sees or imagines seeing some of the other patrons making a joke about the incident, beats the offending party and his pals up, trashes the place and stalks out with friend, then perhaps whines a bit about the incident.

Or a big party in the hall of some lord. A bard recites a poem about the lord's, or his ancestor's, heroic deeds. Several men cry into their beers because they find the poem so touching.

I think I might go with something like that.

OremLK said:

Well if he's drunk that's another issue entirely. Again, just don't take it too far and recognize that being a drunken lout means you need to make him more sympathetic in other ways to make up for his behavior.

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Well, I don't think I will make a point of him being drunk, just make enough references to drinking that it will be clear, at least if you think about it, that alcohol may have something to do with how he behaves. Also make a point that that kind of behavior (crying in public, having outbursts) is considered pretty normal by most people in his society, and judged good or bad depending on what triggered it and what the end results are. Crying over that touching poem about your lord - admirable. Crying because somebody called your dad an oaf - cowardly. Beating the guy who called your dad an oaf - admirable (especially if you win). Yelling at a servant who dropped your beer - understandable if not exactly admirable. Beating that servant up for it - maybe not so good... Nearly hitting that servant but restraining yourself at the last moment - wow, he has such self control .