Weird agent moment

Milwaukee Nick · Oct 10, 2008

I'm a recent lurker who's learned a lot from these posts, and want to first say thanks to all. I'm a sparsely-published short-story writer trying to find an agent for a crime novel. I recently had an odd experience.

I got a phone call from an agent who had requested the full MS -- yippee, right? She was extremely enthusiastic, lots of nice things to say, newer agent with a legit firm with 14 sales (some of them multi-book contracts) in last 12 months. But when I mentioned I had an agent 5 years ago who I haven't talked to since, she cut short the conversation, saying it would be inappropriate to continue while I still had an agent. No offer.

I have no interest in this former agent -- there are some warnings about her on this site among others, I now know -- and I asked the new agent how to disentangle myself. I can't find a contract, so her advice was to send an email and certified letter, etc., which I've done.

So my questions are these: Are my efforts to disentangle sufficient? Should I call my old agent and confirm? She's not yet replied to my email, but it's only been 3 days.

Also, how long do I wait to call back this new agent who certainly seems interested in my book? When the certified letter receipt returns to me? Exactly how excited should I be about this new person? I sent 16 letters out, got 5 partial requests and one full. All rejections but the last, who is this new agent. It seems to me that the fact of the phone call means I am likely to get an offer of representation. Am I off base?

Before the phone call, I was despairing at my rejections. Now I'm skeptical of this prospect of success given this oddball thing, or maybe I should wait until I can snag some superstar agent. It occurs to me that I'm just being a dork, and overthinking, and should simply rejoice at -- possibly -- making it past this first hurdle.

So what do you think? (Feel free to call me a dork, or any other appropriate high school epithet.)

Red-Green · Oct 10, 2008

It seems to me new agent's reticence and concerns are perfectly valid. Most agents don't want to deal with a writer who is already in a relationship with another agent--it's unprofessional, unethical, and dangerous. For example, without knowing the wording of the contract with your previous agent, new agent has no way to know if old agent would have a right to commission on something new agent might sell for you. That would suck for her, huh?

So, deal with this old agent and then call new agent back to let her know you are now free. I mean, if you liked new agent well enough that you wanted her before she knew about your situation, what's not to like now that you know for sure that she's ethical and cautious?

Oh, and good luck! If new agent liked the book, that's a good thing!

DaveKuzminski · Oct 10, 2008

Who was the old agent?

victoriastrauss · Oct 10, 2008

Since this isn't a question or comment about a specific agent, I've moved it here from Bewares & Background Check.

If you've sent an email and certified letter, I think that's sufficient; I don't think you need an official reply from your old agent, or to wait to get the certified receipt back (if your old agent isn't at that address any more, you'll never get it anyway). It may also be that your contract was time limited, and expired long ago. Contact the new agent, tell her you've officially terminated your relationship with the old agent, and hopefully you can move on from there.

Contact me at [email protected] if you like, and tell me the name of your old agent. If I have a file on her, I may have a contract, and can tell you if there was a time limit.

- Victoria

AP7 · Oct 10, 2008

If I am understanding everything, this new agent may be ethical, but she sounds a little paranoid. If you have no contract, havent spoken to old agent in 5 years what claim could old agent possibly have? Has the old agent seen this particular work?

Irysangel · Oct 10, 2008

That's my question as well - did the old agent shop this particular work? Are you positive? No contact does not necessarily mean no shopping, it just means 'no contact'.

I would also review your contract with the old agent carefully to make sure there are no time limits or constraints at leaving the agency.

mysterygrl · Oct 10, 2008

AP7 said:
If I am understanding everything, this new agent may be ethical, but she sounds a little paranoid. If you have no contract, havent spoken to old agent in 5 years what claim could old agent possibly have? Has the old agent seen this particular work?

There was a contract--Milwaukee Nick couldn't find it. The old agent could still have claim over the author's work, even five years later.

While some agent contracts cover a specific project--others may cover all the author's work. (My agreement with my former agent stated the latter.) Also, while some author-agency agreements are good for one year, other agreements will continue until one of the parties receives written notice of termination.

stormie · Oct 10, 2008

I can understand new agent's reticence. After you get things squared away re: old agent, contact the new agent. (Just a note, and I know hindsight is better than foresight, but always make sure your ties are severed--amicably or however--with an old agent first before seeking new representation.)

scope · Oct 10, 2008

Ditto to what Redzilla said.

Your very first job is to disentangle your ties (still valid or not) with the old agent and be able to supply new agents with proof of same.

Milwaukee Nick · Oct 10, 2008

Thanks for your insights, all. Today it got more complicated! I attended a long-scheduled seminar on pitching/queries/agent process, hosted by a veteran (18 years) NYC/New Jersey agent who loved my query letter and told me to send her the whole MS, exclusively, for a month.

I told her the whole spiel I've written about above -- I have a not-quite-offer from a New Agent, what are the ethics, how do I extricate myself from the 5-year-ago Ancient Agent. Veteran Agent's response was, put New Agent off for a bit and I'll read your MS in two weeks. OY!

New Agent = 14 sales in last 12 months, in business a year or two, part of another long-time agent's office, 40% fiction. Veteran Agent = 18 years + 100 sales/year, was NYC now New Jersey, maybe 10% fiction. (Sorry, I don't want to use names because I know many agents read and can easily search this site.) Both seem respected but no real rock stars.

Take the bird in the hand, or hope to finisse the bush? Am I just being a jerk by trying to optimize? I've written 3 novels now and don't want to just give it to the first person who wants it -- but she got there first and responded quickly and seems enthusiastic.

There's something to be said for New Agent, new and hungry in an established office. And there is something slightly predatory about Veteran Agent, saying she wants it but I'm the one taking the risk.

Sorry a long post. Thoughts, O Wise Ones?

Karen Duvall · Oct 10, 2008

It doesn't sound complicated, it sounds great! Congrats on the requests and possible offers of representation that may or may not lead anywhere. It's fairly common for a writer to face a choice between two or three offering agents, or at least it is around AW. I've been hearing this scenario a lot lately. So you're in excellent company. I hope one of these two agents make you an offer, and then you can make a choice. It's a good complication to have. Good luck!

stormie · Oct 10, 2008

First, don't jump at the first agent to offer representation, whichever one does first. Sever ties with the soon-to-be-ex. Do your research on the Internet re: New Agent and Vet. Agent. You write mostly novels? Most likely you'd want to go with an agent who reps mostly novels.

Now I'm going to throw more stuff in here: New agents are hungry,yes. But sometimes--sometimes--are so hungry in building up their client list they lose sight of you. Veteran agents know the ropes. They have a following. You're an add-on, but important. Then again, New Agent might be more aggresive in getting your novel out there, making sure it's polished. Veteran agent knows if it's worthy of certain publishing houses already. They can FEEL it.

It's a dilema but a good one. Talk to both agents (new and veteran). Think about it. Go with your gut feeling. Don't jump into anything. Heck, the ball's in your court.

AP7 · Oct 10, 2008

Sounds like a great problem to have. Congratulations. What was Veteran Agent's take on the old agent? Was she concerned with your "extrication" so to speak?

Milwaukee Nick · Oct 11, 2008

Veteran Agent said I should write another certified letter saying that if I didn't get a response by such-and-such date I would consider myself free and clear, and also requesting a copy of my contract. Which made sense. But I'm not sure I want to poke that particular anthill.

I did more research last night on Publisher's Marketplace and New Agent actually has 2 more deals (14 total) in the last 12 months than Veteran Agent. New Agent is also actually about 90% fiction, about half in my basic genre, and Veteran Agent hasn't sold a novel in the last 12 months.

So I think I'm getting closer to a decision, unless anyone else has some new criteria I haven't considered.

Irysangel · Oct 11, 2008

Just because Veteran Agent doesn't have anything posted to PM does not mean there are no sales. Some of the bigger agents don't feel the need to advertise anymore and still continue to make sales. If you have questions about what she has sold recently...ask. Not everyone reports everything to PM.

Namatu · Oct 11, 2008

Adding: Agent interest in manuscript does not necessarily equate with landing an agent. Not yet anyway, though it does seem you're in a good position!

I had to terminate with my last agent, and Victoria was a great help with her advice. It seems that five years without contact is a good sign that your old agent is willing to part ways. Send the follow-up letter with the "if I do not hear from you by" date. That will show due diligence on your part if the issue ever comes up (keep dated copies!). Then explore your options with both potential new agents. New v. old is perhaps less relevant than how you feel when talking to them, since they both sound like they have good track records.

Karen Duvall · Oct 11, 2008

Irysangel said:
Just because Veteran Agent doesn't have anything posted to PM does not mean there are no sales. Some of the bigger agents don't feel the need to advertise anymore and still continue to make sales. If you have questions about what she has sold recently...ask. Not everyone reports everything to PM.

This is very true. My agent isn't a member of Publishers Marketplace so McIntosh & Otis doesn't report sales to PM despite it being a highly successful agency for the past 85 years.

scope · Oct 11, 2008

So, New agent and Vet agent want you to "officially" sever ties with your previous agent before they woud apparently consider representing you. So this is your first and foremost job. You should do it asap so New and Vet agent don't forget you.

As has already been said, many of us have had more than one offer of representation at the same time. Yes, you have to do your research on each. Yes, you should meet with each agent and ask a host of questions. Yes, you should speak with other authors they represent. Yes, you should read the books they been able to sell. Yes, you should note which publishers they have sold to and the kinds of deals they have made. But in the end, your gut is going to tell you which way to go, unless it's a no brainer. Several years ago I had 3 offers on the table at the same time -- 2 I rated A and 1 I rated B. My gut told me to go with the B rated agent, and I absolutely made the right choice. It's never just a simple formula, even though we have to do all the homework.

Good luck.

Milwaukee Nick · Oct 13, 2008

Thanks again for all the great responses. I've got a call in to Vet Agent to pre-interview her before I put New Agent off for 2 weeks and send out the MS again. Turns out everything on Pub Mktplace is her associate -- she's showing no sales.

I have a list of questions to ask a prospective agent, listed below, but what have I missed? (Book is a novel.)

What percentage of your sales is commercial/genre fiction? How many novels have you sold in last 12 months? For what kind of advances?

How many new fiction clients do you take on each year? How many of these are first-time authors? What is your record in selling the work of these new clients, as a percentage?

Will I be directly represented by you personally, or an associate?

What am I missing? Again, thanks for all your help, O Wise Ones!

stormie · Oct 13, 2008

I haven't read back over the past posts just now, but one of your questions could be, "May I email or call a few of your clients?"

ETA: This is asked when they offer representation.

mysterygrl · Oct 13, 2008

I second Stormie. Definitely talk to a couple of the agent's clients.

The BookEnds blog has a great post on questions to ask offering agents:

http://bookendslitagency.blogspot.com/2007/04/questions-to-ask-before-signing-with.html

Twizzle · Oct 14, 2008

Milwaukee Nick said:
I've got a call in to Vet Agent to pre-interview her before I put New Agent off for 2 weeks and send out the MS again.

I'm confused. If I'm reading you right, neither agent made you an offer of representation. Yes? The second agent only asked for an exclusive on the ms? They haven't even read it yet?

You also said the first agent cut short the convo. Did she invite you to call her back once you'd severed the old agent relationship?

My concern after reading this was-well, wouldn't it be a bit premature to be interviewing these agents yet-if they haven't even offered to rep you? If one hasn't even read the ms?

And I know you said you don't want to poke an anthill-but the second agent said to mail a second letter (which was great advice, imo). I'd be concerned about them not wanting to rep you if you didn't follow thru?

It's all just conjecture on my part-not having experience in this and I'd see what others say-but I think I'd follow that second agent's advice and resend a second letter and then try and get an actual offer on the table first? It seems all a bit premature, esp until you sever that old relationship. Curious to see what others say...

Darzian · Oct 14, 2008

I am equally confused about the part quoted by Twizzle.

Milwaukee Nick · Oct 14, 2008

Twizzle said:
I'm confused. If I'm reading you right, neither agent made you an offer of representation. Yes? The second agent only asked for an exclusive on the ms? They haven't even read it yet?

You also said the first agent cut short the convo. Did she invite you to call her back once you'd severed the old agent relationship?

My concern after reading this was-well, wouldn't it be a bit premature to be interviewing these agents yet-if they haven't even offered to rep you? If one hasn't even read the ms?

And I know you said you don't want to poke an anthill-but the second agent said to mail a second letter (which was great advice, imo). I'd be concerned about them not wanting to rep you if you didn't follow thru?

It's all just conjecture on my part-not having experience in this and I'd see what others say-but I think I'd follow that second agent's advice and resend a second letter and then try and get an actual offer on the table first? It seems all a bit premature, esp until you sever that old relationship. Curious to see what others say...

Twizzle --

Your're absolutely right, except the first (new) agent started the conversation by saying how fabulous the book was and that she really wanted to say much more but she had to be careful not to overstep, etc. I asked her if I was reading between the lines correctly, and she said yes.

And yes, you're also right that the second (veteran) agent hadn't even seen the book, but she had raved over my query and premise, and wanted me to stall the first agent so she could see the book. My response to her was 1) if you want me to possibly lose the bird in the hand, I at least need to get a sense of you by having a conversation, and 2) I know this is weird because you haven't even seen the book, but she was pushing me pretty hard, so I wanted to know who I was dealing with. She also knew I had something resembling an offer on the table, which made me at least appear to be in demand, and therefore worth talking to.

And in that conversation, I learned a bunch about her. I learned she hadn't sold a novel in over a year, that her practice is overwhelmingly non-fiction while I've written a thriller. I learned that while she said that everything she's sold is on Pub Mkt, and she said she'd sold a hundred books last year, she's got NOTHING listed for the last 12 months, only 12 deals by her associate. I learned that I would mostly be dealing with her associate, not her. And honestly, she seemed kind of desperate -- I wanted her to give me a reason to send the book, I wanted her to sell me on her services, but she could only tell me that she would "sell the hell out of" my novel. And this is someone who's been in business for 16 years. It just didn't feel right.

On the other hand, I just got off the phone with the first agent, who does mostly fiction, many 2-3 book deals, and she knocked my socks off with the way she answered all of my idiot questions in a completely professional manner, including detailed suggestions for how to improve the book, and the offer to have one of her current clients act as a reader for me. She also told me that she would wait to make it official until I got delivery confirmation of my termination letter to my original crazy agent of 5 years ago, but that I should consider this phone call a not-quite-official offer of representation, call my wife, pop the champagne, etc.

So that's how the whole thing has shaken out so far. Definitely a bizarre, non-conventional process, but that's just the kind of guy I am!

Anyway, thanks to all for the help and support, including the AAR site, which indeed has great questions for anyone who has the good fortune to be asking questions of agents.

Teriann · Oct 15, 2008

I have to weigh in here because I'm confused, too. I don' tunderstand why you would you say, "I had an agent 5 years ago." Lots of agents "represent" writers -- they shop the book, don't sell it, and that's the end of the relationship. If you had an agent for the book you're shopping, that might be different, but the issue would be whether editors have already seen and rejected the manuscript. I see no reason to disclose the fact that other agents have shopped other books which never sold.

There was a suggestion that perhaps 5 years ago you signed a contract with this agent (who you haven't communicated with) which somehow gave that agent rights to all future work. Rubbish. It can't happen. A publisher's contract might ask for a first look at new material before it is submitted elsewhere, but that is the limit which can be promised in a contract. Your work is your work. You own it. An agent who repped you five years ago cannot possibly have any claim on future, unwritten work.

Weird agent moment

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