More descriptive words than that boring old "said"

My hubby had to restrain me at parents evening when the English teacher told me how they'd not only taught them millions of saidisms, they'd been teaching the kids to use 'lots and lots of adjectives'. As a result of which my son's prose is now so purple I may rename him Prince. Or Squiggle or whatever he's acalled these days.

She slightly redeemed herself by telling me they had all been learning about using the right strong verb rather than the wrong weak one with an adverb. Still, I did have to bite my lip a little.

I remember those lessons in school. That isn't a new thing. And it took me forever to break the habit of NOT using said.

Synonyms are good for replacing said when...you know... it's appropriate.

Example:

"Charlie, no!" she said.

"Charlie, no!" she cried.
"Charlie, no!" she shouted.
"Charlie, no!" she demanded.

But, avoiding the word really makes readability choppy.

My highschool creative writing class wanted us to try to write a short story while avoiding the word "said," and I got into a bit of a scrap with the teacher when I said, "That's a crock of crap and it cannot be done properly." I then went on to talk about how the use of "said" was very appropriate, and there was a reason that it was used to often. She kept agruing with me, so I wrote two nearly identical papers. The first was using what I felt was the appopriate version of "said" and the other was using every other appropriate word but "said". Then, I took it to every other English teacher in the school, asked them to read both papers, and include a signed note saying which was more worthy of being called a "good paper".

That teacher still curses my name.

Just to play devil's advocate here, learning a bunch of adjectives and said-isms is bad for writers, but it's probably good for your third grader. I mean, it's essentially expanding his vocabulary. Not just written, but spoken words as well. We do in fact use a lot of adjectives and said-isms in everyday speech. And since your third grader's writing is going to be utter dreck for the next 5 years no matter WHAT he's writing, he might as well be expanding his vocabulary in the process!

My point: Rules for writers are not necessarily rules for everyone.

Have your 3rd grader return with: "Score!" he ejaculated.

JoNightshade said:

Just to play devil's advocate here, learning a bunch of adjectives and said-isms is bad for writers, but it's probably good for your third grader. I mean, it's essentially expanding his vocabulary.

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There are many ways to expand one's vocabulary without getting the student into the bad habit of said bookism. How about, "instead of saying she is beautiful, can you come up with other adjectives or actual things to show us she is beautiful?"

Bad habits are hard to break, and you don't want them to start so early.

Mark Twain punned said-ism in Huckelberry Finn C1 P6.

She said it was wicked to say what I said;
said she wouldn't say it for the whole world; she was
going to live so as to go to the good place.

Smiles
Bob

Mark Twain is an excellent role model. For example, in the $30,000 bequest. Said, added, and responded are his only tags, when he used tags, excepting the tag for the close, where he used muttered.

It just sounds like an exercise to me. The same way you have to write out your times tables or spelling lists over and over. Book saidisms aren't evil in themselves.

Nicole

It may just be an exercise, but this:

To make dialogue more interesting, writers use other verbs instead of said.

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... is what I have a problem with. It's not just an exercise, but a faulty concept. Many writers end up have to relearn all that when they become adults.

maestrowork said:

It may just be an exercise, but this:



... is what I have a problem with. It's not just an exercise, but a faulty concept. Many writers end up have to relearn all that when they become adults.

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I don't see how it's a faulty statement. Writers DO use verbs other than said to make sentences more interesting. They might not use them all the time, but they do. Though, I agree a "sometimes" stuck somewhere the instructions would probably be justified.

Nicole

You don't make dialogue more interesting by using said bookism. You make the DIALOGUE itself more interesting.

Not to mention:

shrugged
laughed

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... are not even dialogue tags. The teacher needs a refresher course.

Still, they use them, for whatever their personal reasons: pacing, emphasis, variation -- all which lead (if done correctly) to a hightened interest of what's on the page.

Nicole

A tag outside of the invisible ones (said,asked,responded,added) breaks the reader from the fantasy, draws the reader's attention to the author, creates a pregnant pause as the visible tag is digested. This is used for dramitic effect, but should not occur with any frequency.

Smiles
Bob

maestrowork said:

Not to mention:




... are not even dialogue tags. The teacher needs a refresher course.

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Agreed. Now, the addition of these words do empower the sentence, present action, and take any noticibility away from "said" in order to (usually) give the sentence a more fluid feel- and that's why teachers should be teaching the importance of these words- but you can't use them as vocal substitutes.

"The weather's all right," he shrugged. He always was the master of shoulder-talk.

Barb D said:

Ack! My third grader just came home with the following worksheet completed:

"To make dialogue more interesting, writers use other verbs instead of said. Look in your book for synonyms for said and write them in the speech balloons. Add any other synonyms you can think of, and look in a thesaurus for even more."

shouted
whispered
screamed
shrugged
laughed
offered
complained
ordered

"Nooooooooooo!" I said. "Just use 'said'!"

What are they teaching our children these days?

Vent over...back to your regularly scheduled AW.

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Believe it or not, this is not new to 3rd Grade. When I was in the 3rd Grade, back about 1978, such teaching was pretty well the norm for the school I went to.

Only much later (say, a couple years ago) did I hear the sentiment, "Just use the word 'Said.'" The first place I ever read that was AbsoluteWrite, followed quickly by reading The Elements of Style.

Personally, I think if the word fits, use it. If that word is 'said,' use the word 'said.' If it's 'whispered,' or 'breathed,' or some other non-standard word, then my opinion is use it.

Just don't use it all the freaking time, okay? That's when the more colorful words become VERY old. The best writers I've read, have learned to use both in moderation, not one or the other exclusively.

Of course, this is merely one person's opinion. YMMV, and all that usual stuff.

*shudder*

Haggis said:

*shudder*

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Yeah, that pretty much says it all.

My schooling back in the 90s went a lot farther than that. My teachers specifically trained me to avoid said whenever possible.

NicoleMD said:

Writers DO use verbs other than said...

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Yes, but very sparingly.

NicoleMD said:

...to make sentences more interesting.

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No. Trying to make sentences more interesting is a really, really BAD reason.

The only valid reason for using a dialog tag other than said or asked is to convey information about the manner in which the dialog was spoken, and when a different verb is the most unobtrusive way to express that.

In my opinion, volume is the only that that can't be shown within the dialog itself. 'Shouted' and 'whispered' are reasonable tags for occasional use. Sometimes adding an adverb is better, such as 'said softly'. Even volume, though, can often be shown otherwise. He raised his voice to be heard over the hubbub. "Yadda yadda yadda."

FennelGiraffe said:

Yes, but very sparingly.


No. Trying to make sentences more interesting is a really, really BAD reason.

The only valid reason for using a dialog tag other than said or asked is to convey information about the manner in which the dialog was spoken, and when a different verb is the most unobtrusive way to express that.

In my opinion, volume is the only that that can't be shown within the dialog itself. 'Shouted' and 'whispered' are reasonable tags for occasional use. Sometimes adding an adverb is better, such as 'said softly'. Even volume, though, can often be shown otherwise. He raised his voice to be heard over the hubbub. "Yadda yadda yadda."

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I think in MG and YA there is more room to use tags beside 'said'. But only because these age groups have less experience, reading wise, to visualize some of the emotions a writer might be trying to convey.

Rolling Thunder said:

I think in MG and YA there is more room to use tags beside 'said'. But only because these age groups have less experience, reading wise, to visualize some of the emotions a writer might be trying to convey.

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I agree with this, and yet I don't think you give the "said" substitute back-up enough credit to stand on its own. Using tag-along words with "said" can be used as great emphasis in all genres. YA and MG are written at a lower reading level, but there's bigger reasons as to why the reading level's so low.

If you learn to use words other than "said," you can then learn later not to use them.

If you learn to "just use 'said,' " then you can never choose to do anything else.

And any explanation more complicated then what was quoted will be too subtle for most 8 year-olds to understand.

I grew up thinking that "said" was boring however ironically when I started writing.
The only words I used was.
"I shouted"
"I asked"
"I said"
"He whispered"

But nine out of ten I didnt use desciptive words because I didnt need it.