Six???

Hi Maryn, I wish there were more activity here as well, especially because I'm new at this and always check this forum out hoping to learn about the craft. I'm not even sure I'm going to write a play, but I have 2 nice characters that got themselves into an intriguing situation and they might be right for a play. Everything was born out of a writing exercise requiring to use dialogue only as long as I could, so they fight, joke, reveal their complementary personalities and so on for abour 15 reading minutes. Maybe one day I'll develop this story, but in the meantime I hope I'll have the chance to learn how in case I decide a play is the best way to go.

Since my life at the moment is very busy with chldren, frequent moves around the world and family issues, I'm at least trying to keep learning when keep writing is not always possible...

Nice meeting you again!

Raffaella

Considering I have no clue on how to write a play I shall only be viewing your thread. Who knows, you may end up teaching me what I need to know and then one day I might give it a try. (naw...can't see me doing that) It looks like a very hard thing to do. (and I'm old)

we too can write...

I'll have an opportunity to try my hand at playwriting for the first time this fall. Its been years since I've really delved into something new and creative like this. My only disappointment is that it will be an online course, so I won't have the true interaction with the other writers/authors/playwrites that I'd like. So, I'm sure I'll have plenty of questions for everyone to apply an opinion to.

Mindelei

Theater is not dead!

Hi there everyone. I'm new to the forum and would just like to introduce myself. I'm a writer whose been living in the south burbs (Chicago) for most of my life. I've been writing for ten years now and have gotten myself a good arsenal of plays finished. (3 full lengths, 10 one acts, and three children plays) In college... life was good they’re a space to introduce your art and get feedback. Now in the real world I'm trying desperately to get my works produced and three years no luck. But never give up never surrender, right.... Anyway, this forum has been great to my learning the craft of a writer. Thanks

Welcome Topcat and enjoy. Let us know if there's anything you need.

The center of theatre is New York. It'll take a lot of effort to break it, but I think that's basically it as the only market where most people can really hope to make a living in theatre.

Los Angeles has done a decent effort in building up it's theatre scene too. Those two cities, as tourist meccas and entertainment capitals, together hold pretty much the whole country's entertainment scene.

The biggest playrights do live in New York. It's the center of theatre.

Almost all Broadway plays do not come from playrights who live in other cities. They come from plays written by people living in New York, or in other cases they may be adaptations from songs or books (still, the playrights who write them live in NYC.)

In fact, to submit to the broadway houses, the playright often needs a literary agent who specializes in theatre. In the US, that kind of literary agent is almost exclusively found in New York City.

"The playwrights make money for regional performances, sometimes very good money."

Even in NYC few playrights consistently make good money. Unless you've written a string of shows that have done well on Broadway, there isn't much money in playrighting.

I think it's safe to say that there are theatres of varying size and quality in almost every major city in the world and the playwrights who live in those cities have an opportunity to have thier works produced there or anywhere else.

Of course there is only one Broadway or London and the status and money those two markets bring to a playwright are not found in other cities, but it you can make it in Peoria, MAYBE you can make it elsewhere.

I've seen a investment banking commercial recently that showed pictures of famous musicians, writers and scientists and the tag line said "No one ever wanted to grow up to be an ordinary writer, scientist, etc...

But the one thing they forgot to mention is that you need to start somewhere. You don't start off being famous, rich or extraordinary. And even if you don't become famous or "not ordinary" it's still okay, because you're doing something you love.

Although the odds are slim no matter where you live and it's marginally easier to make it in NY, London or LA than other places, many talented people can't afford to move (family, work, etc...) or do not wish to, for any number of reasons, be a little fish in a big pond vs. a big fish in a little pond. You may call these people "not serious" about their passions and goals. But I admire these people for doing what they love regardless of where they live.

They are not any less of a serious artist because of their location, but still strive to succeed in spite of it. They may still have their work produced-- even if it's only in regional theatre. They may move to NY and fall flat on their butt too. There are no guarantees in any of this.

Of course Wilson, Mamet and others living outside the meccas are an exception to the odds, but that doesn't mean its impossible to make it while living outside of the theatre meccas or Hollywood for screenwriters.

Justino, rather than being negative, unsupportive and always telling people to move to LA or NY or they are doomed to failure, why not give them a pat on the back for having the dream in spite of their locale and wish them luck. They know the odds are against them and don't need a "Glump" over their shoulder. (Glump is a character from the animated Gulliver series, who always said "It will never work.")

There've been many articles in the last couple of years, in print and on radio, about regional theater. I have at least four college friends who direct regional theaters (Michael Suenkel in Berkeley, Rich... I'm going blank on his last name in Massachusetts - very well known, well-respected guy, Bill also going blank on his last name in NYC - the Manhattan something or other theater - he and his wife do it.). (Ok - and name dropping - Howard Sherman, the head of the American whatever it's called that does the Tony stuff, I went to high school with him and acted in plays with him! I was totally freaked out when I saw him quoted a couple of days ago about the Tony awards.)

In Cleveland, there's a huge focus on the fact that we're very mid-market. But we've got some great regional theater with tussles going on all the time. Sadly, our economy is not built to support it very well.

I don't at all think I'm being negative.

In film and theatre, you often need to be able to meet people in the industry. Personal connections count as well.

People who have worked in the NY theatre seen at lower levels, who have attended various events, etc have a clear advantage. Knowing actors who may be looking for certain parts (they can push things with producers) is an advantage as well.

In film, if producers take serious interest in your work, they'll often want to set up meetings with you.

And more often that not, meetings don't lead to closed deals. But you still need to be able to make those meetings.

Unless you can take time off work, buy an airplane ticket, and rent a hotel room everytime someone wants to meet with you, then it isn't going to be cost effective to majorly submit work to the LA producers/studios.

I'm not spreading gloom on anyone's dreams. I'm being honest.

Now, if you're perfectly happy doing community theatre and earning comparatively little, if any money, more power to you. But if you want to break in on Broadway and earn top amount of money, then you'll need to go to NY.

Let me tell you about my life and those around me.

In live in NJ about 10 miles from Manhattan. In the past 12 months I have has 9 meetings with producers and/or agents. 2 times were in LA that my manager set up during a scheduled trip as a finalist for an screenwriting awards ceremony (alas, I didn't win, but top 20 in 1400 isn't bad). 1 time was in NYC (I don't have much contact in NYC) and the rest were all phone meetings. My rewrite job I got last year was all over email. Once, however, the producer flew me out to a party at his expense.

My manager assures me that if any major player wants to deal with me, they would be happy to fly me out, but just in case I have a $1000 set aside for emergency flights. I haven't needed it so far.

A good friend in my writing group just optioned his first script to a director/producer in LA (with about 20 credits) last Wednesday. It was all done via phone and email.

Another good friend, Bruce Sakow, who wrote Friday the 13th part 4, lives ten minutes from me further away from NYC. He options and sells all the time. His last script Dead Grrl is in production right now and he never once met the producers before selling it. Now they fly him at their expense to any production meetings where he is needed.

Another guy in my online writing group, Jamie Nash, is in production with Sanchez (Blair Witch) on Altered. He lives in the woods up north, far away from NY or LA.

If I lived on Hollywood Blvd would I have more meetings, maybe-- maybe not. Am I not utilising my career oportunities to its fullest by not living there, sure I guess, but I chose to stay with my family in NJ and make the best of it in spite of my location as do many people. Sure it would be easier if I lived in LA, but my manager is there and he loudly rings the Joe Calabrese bell in my absence. I honestly don't think I suffer too much by being on the east coast.

And BTW. Where do you live and how's that working out for you?

Location doesn't necessarily identify you as an artiste...

Go Joe & Maryn! I agree wholeheartedly (although I can't say that I'm blessed with Joe's background). But, isn't that the one MAJOR bonus of being a writer is that you can hone your craft anywhere?! Plus, with today's technology, it's no longer necessary to schlep your hardcopies all around the city hoping that someone -anyone- will have mercy on your soul and possibly let your eager face in the door just to pitch your play/book/article/etc.

PS...I'll be sure to share any worthwhile info that I pickup at my class...

Yes, you can hone your writing from anywhere in the world. Computers and electricity exist everywhere.

"Plus, with today's technology, it's no longer necessary to schlep your hardcopies all around the city hoping that someone -anyone- will have mercy on your soul and possibly let your eager face in the door just to pitch your play/book/article/etc."

"My manager assures me that if any major player wants to deal with me, they would be happy to fly me out, but just in case I have a $1000 set aside for emergency flights. I haven't needed it so far."

They would be happy to fly you out for a meeting that may not end in a deal?

"Another good friend, Bruce Sakow, who wrote Friday the 13th part 4, lives ten minutes from me further away from NYC. He options and sells all the time. His last script Dead Grrl is in production right now and he never once met the producers before selling it. Now they fly him at their expense to any production meetings where he is needed."

Saskow has a story credit on Friday the 13th. Where was he when he got that opportunity? Just curious.

"If I lived on Hollywood Blvd would I have more meetings, maybe-- maybe not. Am I not utilising my career oportunities to its fullest by not living there, sure I guess, but I chose to stay with my family in NJ and make the best of it in spite of my location as do many people. Sure it would be easier if I lived in LA, but my manager is there and he loudly rings the Joe Calabrese bell in my absence. I honestly don't think I suffer too much by being on the east coast."

If that's what makes you happy.............


"And BTW. Where do you live and how's that working out for you?"

Since I've been writing, I spend winters in Los Angeles, spring in Alabama (at my parent's place), and summers in New York City. I'm originally from New York.

How's that working for me? Fine. I don't have anything to do while in Alabama, so I use that time for writing new stuff or rewrites. And right now I've just signed up for UCLA's online screenwriting classes.

While I'm in LA or NYC I look for gigs in the industry, so I can meet more people.

And I think part of going out to LA or NYC is just learning the scene. You cannot appreciate how everyone in Los Angeles has a script until you go there and see the homeless person on the bench with a script, the waiter with a script, etc.

Nothing like makes you appreciate how your script had better blow people out of the water if you want to stand a chance of getting anywhere. That's why I've gotten good coverage from a development executive I know (rewriting now) and that's why I signed up for UCLA classes.

I think it's hard to appreciate how competitive it is and how much work it takes until you are there.

On the development end, most people will tell you most scripts suck due to poor formatting, structural flaws, among other reasons. So you'll really have to learn your stuff.

Saskow has a story credit on Friday the 13th. Where was he when he got that opportunity? Just curious.

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He was here in the NY area. He moved to LA shortly after that but only stayed for about a year before getting fed up with the politics. He took a few years off to teach screenwriting at the New School in NYC and he's been back to writing now for about 4 years. In that time he's optioned 4 scripts and sold 2. Dead Grrl is interesting because he co-wrote it with another guy I know, Larry Hama, (creator of the 1980's GI Joe comics, Xmen writer, etc...). I had a chance to review the 1st draft of the script and offered some ideas which ended up in the final draft. No screen credit, but I am happy that these two great guys sought out and agreed with my suggestions.

They would be happy to fly you out for a meeting that may not end in a deal?

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If they are a major player, like a studio or a big producer, they will. But let me add that studios or even indy producers won't meet with you in person unless they have already read the script, have put feelers out for marketability and have a big interest to buy it and make it within their next production period. Phone or email meetings are common in the early stages and physical meetings are just to tie things up. In my case where I'm doing mostly rewrite work or story consulting on pre-existing projects already in development, a physical meeting is more a job interview. But for specs, they really don't need to meet you until they are sure they want to make an offer. Sure meetings is also a good way to develop relationships too. I met with Reynolds (Blade 3) to possibly produce my spec, but time restraints with other projects caused him to back out. I've talked with him since and I think I may work with him in the future.

I agree that networking and getting to know people is valuable. I go to film festivals (Tribecca this year was good for me I think-- more on that when things are definite).

Justin, it's great you can change your local for work and networking. I suspect that you must be pretty young (20's)? It's a lot easier for you to move around and suggest to others to move because of your age. When you get to my age (41), and maybe have a family and stable day job, you'll want to stay in one place and realize that not everyone can do what you do.
If I am wrong about your age, I apologize, but again, not everyone can uproot themselves for a dream, not matter how devoted they are to such dream.

Anyway, this thread is going off to another direction which would be better suited in screenwriting room rather than here.

Let's get back to plays and all you playwrights here are always welcome to join in the screenwriting forum. We are close cousins. Yours is the closet art to screenwriting and can understand us more than most.

Yes, I'm in my 20s. And yes, I agreed with most of what you said in your post.

On the age thing, I'll just say this.

Regardless of your age, even if a studio were willing to fly someone out to Los Angeles (I'm still not sure if they do that), that person in his 40s is still going to have to take time off work. If his script is hot around town he may have quite a few meetings to get to. And depending on who are employer is, they might not appreciate you taking a week off here and there. You might even find yourself coming home having to look for a new job.

Studio execs and all are not really going to care that you have a full time job, spouse, and kids. You'd have to deal with your personal life on your time.

I certainly don't intend to discourage anyone, but these are things that all writers have to deal with in some form or manner. Don't get me wrong, a determined person will always find someone way of making things work. But it doesn't mean that there aren't things that can be problematic.

And my suggestion towards people spending time in LA or NYC is more geared towards people my age. Your points on people in your age bracket or well noted. Still, scheduling is still going to be tricky for them, for the reasons I just mentioned.

And now I'll shift future comments on this subject to the screenwriting forum, since we got a bit of track. But most of what I said can also apply to playrights.

Dead GrrL

That script has not been sold and it was never in production. A group of us were bamboozeld by a con artist claiming to be a producer and who never even had any intent to make the film. I was attached to direct and the whole gang of losers totally wasted six months of my life. It was a huge joke. Be very careful who you do business with and make sure you arent dealing with wannabes

JustinoXXV said:

Yes, I'm in my 20s. And yes, I agreed with most of what you said in your post.

On the age thing, I'll just say this.

Regardless of your age, even if a studio were willing to fly someone out to Los Angeles (I'm still not sure if they do that), that person in his 40s is still going to have to take time off work. If his script is hot around town he may have quite a few meetings to get to. And depending on who are employer is, they might not appreciate you taking a week off here and there. You might even find yourself coming home having to look for a new job.

Studio execs and all are not really going to care that you have a full time job, spouse, and kids. You'd have to deal with your personal life on your time.

I certainly don't intend to discourage anyone, but these are things that all writers have to deal with in some form or manner. Don't get me wrong, a determined person will always find someone way of making things work. But it doesn't mean that there aren't things that can be problematic.

And my suggestion towards people spending time in LA or NYC is more geared towards people my age. Your points on people in your age bracket or well noted. Still, scheduling is still going to be tricky for them, for the reasons I just mentioned.

And now I'll shift future comments on this subject to the screenwriting forum, since we got a bit of track. But most of what I said can also apply to playrights.

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Wow.

That's news to me, but not totally surprising, having dealt with wannabes myself.

I havent talked to Bruce in a few months (he hasn't been coming to our writer's group meetings lately) and I wondered where he dropped out to. I just thought he was busy.

I figured that since Dead Grrrl is listed on imdb that it was a done deal and filming by now. Guess I was wrong.

I'm gonna call Bruce today. He must be pissed.

Thanks.

Joe

RIP Dead GrrL

Yeah it was a huge scam - the script also was in serious need of work and everyone in town passed on it. The writers were nice fellows though. There was a serious amount of bullshitting going on regarding that project from a variety of sources.