Have you queried before completing the WIP?

I haven't, but since I've joined AW I have witnessed quite a few threads started by people who had. None of them were happy.

No. But, we queried the publishers with two paragraphs of a second book. That's all I had written of the second book and got a two-book deal. The first was complete and polished.

JJ

What do you do when you equery and two hours later you get a request for a full that the agent wants you to send via email attachment?

I've queried when I knew my completed manu still needed a bit of polish. I've scrambled to fine tooth the partials for agents. It makes for a nerve wracking afternoon.

I understand the frustration in 'real' time between queries and responses, but you do get requests. And you'd better be ready. Agents might understand a day or two lag period getting your partial or full to them, but a month to finish the WIP won't fly.

It's a good way to anger agents.
You don't want to burn bridges, so be patient and finish/edit, then query!

I was thinking the same thing, KTC.

To the question posed in the thread title: JUST SAY NO!

Yes I did. But I was diligently working on the polish so when they finally got back to me I was ready anyways. To me it sounded smart, I knew I was about a week away from finish and they can take weeks to get back to you, so I thought why not.

I had 7 requests (3 fulls and 4 partials, I think) within 2 days of querying, and I queryied on a friday. Luckily it was done and polished to the best of my ability, which was not nearly enough, but I got an agent who was willing to work with me and then an editor who was willing to do the same. (my plot was a tangled up mess that I didn't know what to do with).

KTC said:

OOh. I'm just waiting for TOOTHPASTE to get in here and tell you her fabulous story about this...

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lol! I'm guessing then I've told the story a few times . . .

Well Darzian, let me be a bit different and tell you that yes, I indeed did query without having completed my MS. And as a first time author. As a very silly ignorant first time author.

When I began querying I was under the impression that I would not hear back from any agents for 4 - 6 weeks. I was under that impression because that was what I read in The Writers' and Artists' Yearbook in the UK (a really great book filled with advice, and agent/publisher listings). I had also snail mailed my queries (as is typical in the UK) and so expected that things would move at a slightly slower pace.

I had had a bad bought of writer's block see, and I figured that knowing I would hear back in say 4 weeks would give me the impetus and PLENTY of time to finish the book. I can't quite remember how many words I had left but it was around 20 000 - 30 000.

Well . . . the very NEXT DAY after mailing out my queries I got a request for a full. The NEXT DAY! That's how quick the mail system works in the UK. Actually very impressive. So I said "Sure no problem". Hung up the phone and PANICKED.

This is what I did. Now I edit as I go along, so it wasn't as if this was a rough rough first draft. Still I sent what I had written to my parents (the gods of spelling and grammar - and also just really well read) meanwhile I took three of the longest days of my life to finish writing the rest. My parents emailed me their section back. I then emailed them the end. They looked at it. We talked changes over the phone, I implemented those. And then I was done.

I had got the call tuesday, Friday I went to the Kinkos equivalent and printed up the MS late in the afternoon (because those places were closed weekends where I was). Monday I walked the MS over to the agency.

I never once mentioned to the agent that I hadn't finished the MS, nor even asked if they would wait till the following Monday.

And after two months of them reading it and several rounds of edits, I signed with them.


BUT. I would never ever recommend this process to anyone. Having gone through it I can tell you it was so PAINFUL. Also I am the sort of person who works well under pressure, and for whom her first draft is not very different from her last. So I was able to write an ending that needed little manipulation. In fact, and my parents agree though we both don't quite understand how, the ending is probably the strongest part of the book, despite it having been so rushed. So fortunately I was able to do this, and it worked out. If someone has a similar work ethic, then it may for him too. But it was a huge risk, and I was very lucky, and man. Seriously though? I am never doing that again.

Toothpaste said:

lol! I'm guessing then I've told the story a few times . . .

Well Darzian, let me be a bit different and tell you that yes, I indeed did query without having completed my MS. And as a first time author. As a very silly ignorant first time author.

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Oh, man, I never heard this before! That was amazing, how quickly you finished it all. Wow! I think I possibly would have broken down and given up...

For a much less happy ending than Toothpaste's story, click here. The writer in question actually avoided calls from an agency because he hadn't completed the manuscript. He deleted most of his posts from the thread he started, but the quotes and replies from everyone else tell the story.

I did. And never, never, never would again. I needed to finish the ending, the ending of all things.

What was I thinking you ask? I too thought it would take 4-6 weeks to get a response. Sent out a bunch of e-queries, got a request for a Full FOUR HOURS LATER. From one of my 'dream' agents.

What did I do you ask? Well, I stayed up all night and finally finished writing the ending at 5:30 AM- hubby edited while I typed. Then we slept for two hours and did a final edit.

What happened you ask? This was only 5 weeks ago and in the meantime I got and accepted an offer from another agent. I cringe everytime I think of Agent #1 reading what I sent. Truly awful.

Along time ago in a galaxy far, far away I queried a publisher with an unfinished ms and got a request for the full. I had about 12,000 words to go. I wrote it in about 3 days and sent it in. Got a thanks, but no thanks. I'm thinking my appalling last few chapters sunk my chances.

Richard

Toothpaste--you're the bravest man I know!

To answer the original question--no, I have never submitted before the first draft was finished. Never had the guts to do it.

Carmy said:

Toothpaste--you're the bravest man I know!

To answer the original question--no, I have never submitted before the first draft was finished. Never had the guts to do it.

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*Psst - Toothpaste is a woman*

Queen of Swords said:

For a much less happy ending than Toothpaste's story, click here. The writer in question actually avoided calls from an agency because he hadn't completed the manuscript. He deleted most of his posts from the thread he started, but the quotes and replies from everyone else tell the story.

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I'm tempted to tape this on my wall every time I get the urge to query now now NOW.

I queried when I only had 15 pages written and of course the nightmare occured: request for a full. Managing to complete the manuscript in 2 months, things turned out okay in the end, though I wouldn't recommend this route to anyone. Lots of stress, and there was always the possibility I could've gotten a "No dice," merely on account of the delay. Waiting 6 months to start querying a MS may seem like a long time, but it really goes quick and will be time well invested.

vfury said:

Oh, man, I never heard this before! That was amazing, how quickly you finished it all. Wow! I think I possibly would have broken down and given up...

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It was pretty painful, and I would never do it again that's for sure!


Carmy - "Toothpaste--you're the bravest man I know!"

Gender issues aside, I thank you! Though I dunno, sometimes I just look at it as sheer stupid stubborness!

Queen of Swords said:

For a much less happy ending than Toothpaste's story, click here. The writer in question actually avoided calls from an agency because he hadn't completed the manuscript. He deleted most of his posts from the thread he started, but the quotes and replies from everyone else tell the story.

Click to expand...

That was an astonishing thread. That poster was an astonishing poster: he had previously had a thread about how OMG HIS BOOK WAS SO SCANDALOUS THAT THE UK PUBLISHING INDUSTRY COULDN'T HANDLE IT! IT HAD BAD WORDS AND DRUG USE AND SEX IN IT!

And despite the fact that several people pointed out Booker Prize and Whitbread Prize winning novels that consisted pretty much entirely of drug use and sex described in obscene language--novels it was clear he hadn't written--he still clung to his vision of himself as a pioneer of frankness who would SHOCK THE WORLD!

I've queried work that wasn't finished yet, but I probably won't do it again. I once queried something to an agent, expecting I'd just get a slow rejection anyway, and she wound up asking to see the full manuscript. Then I had all the fun of having to try and finish it and get it in before she had time to forget issuing the invitation. That was a little too stressful for me.

I just attended a writers conference this weekend, and during the agent panel (consisting of Kristin Nelson, Becca Stumpf, Miriam Kriss, and Donna Bagdasarian), someone asked: "Can a writer pitch you a manuscript they haven't finished yet?" and in unison they all answered NO!!!

But here's an amusing story. On Friday, during this conference, I was in a critique workshop led by St. Martin's editor Daniela Rap. It was a small group of 8 writers, all of us having submitted in advance the first 10 pages of a manuscript, finished or unfinished, for critique. What a great opportunity to get professional editorial feedback, right? I wasn't expecting the editor to like it enough to ask for the book, especially since its not a genre she works with (I write urban fantasy, she's strictly thriller and suspense). But she did ask me to send her the full, and I had to tell her that what she'd read was all that exists of the book... so far, anyway. She was really disappointed. I felt kind of bad, but it wasn't supposed to be a pitch session. It was a critique! But I told her about the completed book my agent has, so that made her happy and she asked me to have my agent call her right away. Sometimes timing is everything.

In general, I believe that all works of fiction should be complete before queries. For nonfiction, since editors expect to receive a well designed proposal, and will make their initial decision based on same, a completed manuscript before querying isn't absolutley necessary. However, I write nonfiction and always complete my manuscript before querying. Doing so, for me, puts everything in greater perspective.