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View Full Version : Women WANT to be treated like crap



Captshady
08-27-2008, 11:15 PM
,

CaroGirl
08-27-2008, 11:19 PM
You sound kind of bitter.

DeleyanLee
08-27-2008, 11:20 PM
It's not that women want to be treated like crap. It's that many women believe that their love can "save" the man who treats them like crap.

It's stupid, but my experience says it's true.

TrainofThought
08-27-2008, 11:22 PM
I'm convinced that what women SAY they want out of men is complete, and total bull crap. They SAY they want a sensitive, caring man that will take care of them, protect them, be a partner in life, etc but life has taught me that women want a challenge in the rough drinking man that gives them attention when and only when he feels like it.

A bunch of you will respond with "not me" and from this moment on, I'll never believe that lie again.I never said that. I'm a firm believer in "Save A Horse [Ride A Cowboy]."

auntybug
08-27-2008, 11:28 PM
My cousin was sexually abused as a baby - now she looks for men that beat her.

My ex-hubby hit me once - thats how he became my ex.

Everyone is different but yes, it does seem like some just keep going back for more.

* buys Captshady a drink*

Priene
08-27-2008, 11:30 PM
If I tried treating my wife like crap I'd end up picking my gizzards off the floor.

Cranky
08-27-2008, 11:32 PM
In my experience, it wouldn't be wise to say "thank you" for the drink. If I'd like to see you again, I should say "thanks, no go get me a sandwich"

Don't forget to slap her on the ass, too. Geesh.

ETA: You know what I think? I think you married someone who was, uh, less than nice, shall we say? Then, you start seeing the same kind of thing all over the place, women who put up with crap, and it's just not fair, is it?

Sort of like buying a car. You buy it, and before that, you hardly ever see one. After you buy that make and model, you start seeing them EVERYWHERE YOU GO.

In other words, if you're looking for women who put up with crap, you're going to see them, and see a lot of them. Your eye will skip right over people that don't fit that description, because it doesn't fit with your experience.

That's my two cents.

Shadow_Ferret
08-27-2008, 11:39 PM
:popcorn:

<-- *knows when to keep his yap shut*

Marian Perera
08-27-2008, 11:39 PM
It probably works in reverse as well. Some men may enjoy being treated badly by women.

Roger J Carlson
08-27-2008, 11:39 PM
Ridiculous! There's no such thing as "women want..." or "men want...". Treat enough women like crap and eventually you'll find one who likes to be treated that way.

Shadow_Ferret
08-27-2008, 11:41 PM
All my friends had to ask me
Somethin' they didn't understand-a
How I get all the women
In the palms of my hand, now

And I told them, to treat her like a lad-ay
(You got-to, got-to treat her like)
Um-hum all the best you can do
(Treat her like, you got-to, got-to treat her like)
You got to treat her like a lad-ay, she give into you
Ah-hum now who can see, you know what I mean?

I know you heard (treat her right)
That a woman (got-ta treat her right)
Will soon take advantage (treat her right) of you
(Got-ta treat her right)
Let me tell you (treat her right)
My friend (got-ta treat her right)
There just ain't no (treat her right) subsititute-ta
(Got-ta treat her right)
You oughta a treat her like a lad-ay
(You got-ta, got-ta treat her like)
Um-hum, all (treat her like) the best you can do
(You got-ta, got-ta treat her like)
You got-ta treat her like a lad-ay
She give into you, ah-hum
Now who can see? you know what I mean

Oh, you've got to love her (love her)
Tease her (tease her)
But most of all you've got-ta please her
(Please her)
You've got-ta hold her (hold her)
Now an want her (want her)
And make her feel you'll always need her
(Need her)
You know a woman (woman)
Is sentimental (woman)
And so easy (woman) to upset (woman)
So make her feel (feel)
That she's for real (real)
An she give you happiness
Whoa-oh-oh
Strange (treat her like) as it seems-a
(You got-ta treat her like)
You know you can't (treat her like) a woman mean
(Got-ta treat her like)

So my friends, now there you have it
I said it's the easy simple way
Now if you fail, uh, ta do this
Don't blame her if she looks my way-a

Cause I'm gonna a
A treat her like a lad-ay
(You got-ta, got-ta treat her like)

Um-hum, so affec (treat her like) tionately
(You got-ta, got-ta treat her like)
I'm gonna treat her like a lad-ay
She give into me, uh-huh

Now who can see?
You know what I mean
Oh you gotta a treat her like a lad-ay
(You got-ta, got-ta treat her like)
Um-hum, all the best you can do

[Fades]

(You got-ta, got-ta treat her like)
You got-ta treat her like a lad-ay
She give into you...

Bubastes
08-27-2008, 11:42 PM
What Cranky said. It helps if you'd rather be alone than with a jerk, though. Many women (and men, for that matter) can't say that. One of my good guy friends is one of the nicest guys I know, yet he keeps dating psycho beeyotches. He admitted that he can't stand being alone, so that's why he settles. I know a lot of people who simply aren't comfortable without someone, anyone, in their lives. I'm not one of them -- I adore my solitude.

Funny, MeowGuy says that a big reason he loves me is because I don't need him. That goes both ways. :D

MattW
08-27-2008, 11:42 PM
As a younger man, I heard nothing but female friends say they wanted a funny and sensitive guy. I heard complaint after complaint about arrogant playas who cheated, blew them off, forced sex, "borrowed" money, and much more.

And yet every woman I dated left me a little less sensitive and a little more sarcastic.


I think it may also be an age factor too - before 25, some women are still really girls (and men are boys until at least 40). Some are all about flash and excitement, and while they may not realize it, they are attracted to superficial things. Danger and mystery can be confused for raw male sensuality, and panties just fly off. On the flip side, if they act responsibly when younger, there can also be a tendency to consider all the wild passion they missed out on, and still go down a bad path with more experience.

mab
08-27-2008, 11:44 PM
CaptShady, I can certainly sympathise with how you are feeling, but don't let the behaviour of a couple of women make you bitter.

I sometimes feel bitter about past relationships and the number of friends I've had who were mistreated by their menfolk...I hear myself starting to say 'Oh, Men are all so...' But then I remember all the good blokes out there... I shouldn't tar you all with the same brush. And we women aren't all the same either, although a lot of us do seem to have father issues and silly notions that we can change a man.

Marian Perera
08-27-2008, 11:46 PM
Oh, and regarding the whole "he's good-looking, I'm fat and bald" part...

Patrick Stewart and Yul Brynner are/were bald, but they are/were pretty hot. Of course, if either of them had said, "Women like being ill-treated" I wouldn't have found them so attractive.

Perks
08-27-2008, 11:50 PM
Captshady, I know you're pissed and it sounds like you've got a reason to be, but I have a different take on the evolution of these attitudes. I don't think women want to be treated like crap. In fact, those words strung together in that order are absurd.

What many people have is an addiction to the buzz of passion. When it happens automatically to propel people together, we call it chemistry. In entertainment and advertising this agitated state often figures prominently to advance drama because it is, in fact, very dramatic. But it's also short-lived in its most potent state. We live in constant vicarious arousal. We've come to think of it as normal and as if something is missing once it cools.

A close approximation of that feeling is the buzz of reunion. Many people have become so addicted to the oxytocin response that they will manufacture reunion scenarios (which can't happen without a rift) to simulate the original high.

It is, like any addiction, an affinity for a feeling - gone horribly wrong.

NeuroFizz
08-27-2008, 11:54 PM
First of all, I'm sorry for your unhappiness, Cap. But your sample size for making those sweeping generalizations is n = 2. Beyond that, you have hardly made an unbiased sampling. We tend to see extreme examples (especially if we live them) when a large number of happy couples go unnoticed. As for the psychology behind these behaviors, I suspect the reasons are as varied as the individuals exhibiting them. I will agree with you, though. If you did a thorough survey of a cross section of our society, you'd be probably be swamped with "I'm not like that" responses.

Most important, though, is to avoid comparison. Let your BIL's relationship with this woman be what it is. Work on yours (or not) in isolation of what is happening with them or anyone else. Looking at what other people have or do is dangerous because we tend to see only the shallow water stuff. Then we compare that to the deep water stuff with our partners. It's easy to frolic when the water is shin-deep. You don't know what will happen to those people when they swim past the drop-off in their relationship. Work on you. Find your happiness.

MattW
08-27-2008, 11:56 PM
GuRlz R M33n

Perks
08-27-2008, 11:57 PM
GuRlz R M33nDuh

rugcat
08-28-2008, 12:09 AM
I think the whole women want to be treated like crap thing is so much crap.

What is true is that there is a large subset of both women and men for whom drama, danger, and strife are necessary parts of sexual attraction. Drama and danger get the heart pounding and the blood flowing, as do sex, and for some you can't have one without the other. The bad boy syndrome. (Or bad girl)

And as for physically attractive people having more success in attracting partners, (or at least one night stands) well, that may not be fair, but it's life. Very physically attractive people, both men and women, tend to hook up with others at the same level of attractiveness. In fact, most couples seem to be in the same ballpark, attractive-wise, at whatever level.

Men who are not particularly attractive at least have the opportunity to acquire wealth and/or power, which can act as a stand in. Not so much true with women.

No, life's not fair.

DL Hegel
08-28-2008, 12:12 AM
My bro in law gets to treat women like crap and have them pining for him. The difference between he and I? He's good looking, I'm fat and bald. He treats women like crap, and I've never been able to pull it off.

Sounds like your brother in law is manipulator. They can run their games for a while but it catches up to them. there is a movie with Martin Lawerence called "A Thin Line Between Love and Hate" Watch it and think of your bro--whole new view.

As for Men like your bro--they are women who use them for sport--if he keeps up like his is he will meet one just like him. and i would bet $50 she will flatten him.

Good guys don't finish last. The world full of good people but you have to look.

jennifer75
08-28-2008, 12:13 AM
It's not that women want to be treated like crap. It's that many women believe that their love can "save" the man who treats them like crap.

It's stupid, but my experience says it's true.

Yup. We want to "fix" somebody.

NeuroFizz
08-28-2008, 12:16 AM
And as for physically attractive people having more success in attracting partners, (or at least one night stands) well, that may not be fair, but it's life. Very physically attractive people, both men and women, tend to hook up with others at the same level of attractiveness. In fact, most couples seem to be in the same ballpark, attractive-wise, at whatever level.
Furthermore, the divorce rate (or relationship failure rate) among the best looking celebrities is about zero, while that among overweight, average-looking people must be around 99%. Right?

TerzaRima
08-28-2008, 12:18 AM
Some men like to be treated like crap. I can think of three men in my circle of friends and family who serially date very narcissistic, bitchy, emotionally labile women. My only guess is that a guy like this initially likes feeling like the rescuer in the relationship, and then is all WTF? when he needs nurturing and doesn't get it from a woman like this.

NeuroFizz
08-28-2008, 12:21 AM
In my experience (which is varied, but fairly limited), this happens when a person puts looks ahead of substance.

TrainofThought
08-28-2008, 12:22 AM
In fact, most couples seem to be in the same ballpark, attractive-wise, at whatever level.

Men who are not particularly attractive at least have the opportunity to acquire wealth and/or power, which can act as a stand in. Not so much true with women.

No, life's not fair.Do you know of statistics or studies to support your statement? I'm curious because when I look at the rich and famous, you'll find far more physically attractive women with unattractive men then the reverse.

Um... And are you saying women can't acquire wealth and/or power?

Just asking.

NeuroFizz
08-28-2008, 12:25 AM
A fat wallet (or purse) has the ability to trump all, but that tends to be as one-dimensional and risky as focusing only on looks. But it gives a better divorce settlement.

Bubastes
08-28-2008, 12:26 AM
Um... And are you saying women can't acquire wealth and/or power?


I think what rugcat meant (and correct me if I'm wrong) is that wealth/power can compensate for unattractiveness in men. For women, however, wealth/power probably cannot compensate for a lack of looks and may even be a repellant, at least from my limited observations. I see many more sugar daddies than sugar mommies, but things look like they may be changing.

ETA: in other words, a fat wallet will probably help a man more than it will help a woman in getting dates.

TrainofThought
08-28-2008, 12:32 AM
I think what rugcat meant (and correct me if I'm wrong) is that wealth/power can act as a stand-in for attractiveness for men (that is, a rich, ugly guy can probably still date models). For women, however, wealth/power probably cannot compensate for a lack of looks and may even be a repellant, at least from my limited observations. I see many more sugar daddies than sugar mommies, but things look like they may be changing.Again, statistics and studies?

I'm actually laughing at the OP and some of the other posters comments. I might use this thread as a writing exercise. Thanks.

Red-Green
08-28-2008, 12:32 AM
My marital experience seems to suggest this is true. I always seem to get more out of my husband by being a bitch to him than if I'm nice to him. Go figure.


It probably works in reverse as well. Some men may enjoy being treated badly by women.

WildScribe
08-28-2008, 12:34 AM
Bitter much?

My husband is the kindest, most honest, most purely GOOD person I have ever met in my life.

Why doncha try that "treating women like crap" thing and see how far it gets you.

Ken
08-28-2008, 12:35 AM
any woman who is in a relationship where her guy is not treating her respectfully should immediately take steps to correct the situation. By allowing things to go on as they are, she's not only doing herself harm, but all females in general, by making such behavior seem acceptable.

MattW
08-28-2008, 12:36 AM
My marital experience seems to suggest this is true. I always seem to get more out of my husband by being a bitch to him than if I'm nice to him. Go figure.Bitchiness is the only signal I get on how to prioritize an infinitely long list of requests. :tongue

Shweta
08-28-2008, 12:39 AM
From soon-to-be-ex-brother-in-law, can I understand that you're talking about a brother-sister pair from hell here? Might be, yaknow, that they have something in common, in using other people.

Thing is, being with someone who, er, isn't nice can color your view of everything. And lead you, in your pain, to make statements that really don't make you look good. I just hope you realize how silly the overgeneralization is.

I mean, it's okay to be silly when venting. But you really want to write off half the human race? Seriously? You really want to sweep over the women on this board who have had to leave abusive spouses, who have gone through hell because of men who turned out not to be nice without generalizing about all men, because your pain matters more?




ETA: But thanks for the reminder to go hug my smart sweet caring husband and be grateful I have him :)

C A Winters
08-28-2008, 12:39 AM
Furthermore, the divorce rate (or relationship failure rate) among the best looking celebrities is about zero, while that among overweight, average-looking people must be around 99%. Right?

I dunno---one could always lose weight and buy a wig to find out.

Seriously, ALL women do not want to be treated like crap. Just as ALL men do not like being dumbed down all the time, and required to act like a maid, even while working a full time job. Much of which is portrayed through media, as the way it should be done. Some of the TV commercials are a good example of the dumb down the men factor.

Household chores should be equal, only if both are working outside the home. Respect for your partner, should be a mutual action. It works both ways.

I really believe the whole perspective of what real love is, has gotten so screwed up. And of course most crack heads/drug abusers, if not truly rehabilitated, will always be manipulative abusers. Those involved with one, rarely have a good relationship.

Bubastes
08-28-2008, 12:41 AM
Again, statistics and studies?

I'm actually laughing at the OP and some of the other posters comments. I might use this thread as a writing exercise. Thanks.

My opinion is based primarily on my observations, but I don't think it's all that far-fetched.

This topic did remind me of this radio piece I heard a while back, about a website designed to match up sugar daddies with sugar babies. It's interesting because there are so few sugar mommies and so few men looking for them. Is it reflection of the way the larger dating pool works? I don't know, but it was something to think about.
http://marketplace.publicradio.org/display/web/2007/10/19/sugar_daddies/

ETA: there is a written transcript of the radio piece at this link as well.

Red-Green
08-28-2008, 12:43 AM
Touchè. Isn't it nice to be needed? ;)


Bitchiness is the only signal I get on how to prioritize an infinitely long list of requests. :tongue

MattW
08-28-2008, 12:44 AM
Touchè. Isn't it nice to be needed? ;)

No.

TrainofThought
08-28-2008, 12:49 AM
My opinion is based primarily on my observations, but I don't think it's all that far-fetched.

This topic did remind me of this radio piece I heard a while back, about a website designed to match up sugar daddies with sugar babies. It's interesting because there are so few sugar mommies. Reflection of the way the larger dating pool works? I don't know, but it's interesting.
http://marketplace.publicradio.org/display/web/2007/10/19/sugar_daddies/ I'll have to listen to it when I get home, but I'm not thinking there are fewer sugar mommies because they can't find a guy. As I've stated before in other threads, and believe from proof around me, more women can deal and take care of themselves then men. Men need women for security.

Shadow_Ferret
08-28-2008, 12:54 AM
Security? That's what my dog is for.

I need women for sex.





:eek: Geez, did I say that outloud?

Shweta
08-28-2008, 12:57 AM
As I've stated before in other threads, and believe from proof around me, more women can deal and take care of themselves then men. Men need women for security.

The first part may be true, but the second sentence reads to me as just another sweeping generalization.


Here's my sweeping generalizations: the sweeping generalizations, they are wrong.

TrainofThought
08-28-2008, 12:58 AM
Security? That's what my dog is for.

I need women for sex.





:eek: Geez, did I say that outloud?Psst... You didn't have to get married for that. *giggles as she walks away*

Shadow_Ferret
08-28-2008, 12:59 AM
Psst... You didn't have to get married for that. *giggles as she walks away*
Actually, yes, I did. I'm shy.

NeuroFizz
08-28-2008, 01:00 AM
I'll have to listen to it when I get home, but I'm not thinking there are fewer sugar mommies because they can't find a guy. As I've stated before in other threads, and believe from proof around me, more women can deal and take care of themselves then men. Men need women for security.
Um, sorry ToT, but weren't you just demanding data and studies from others? And, to be fair, you should define what you mean by "security." Financial security? Emotional security? By your last statement, do you mean this is exclusively in the "men need women" direction or is it at all reciprocal? I'm just not sure how far you are going with your argument.

Mr Flibble
08-28-2008, 01:01 AM
To the OP, I have just one little word.

Bollocks.

Ok, more than one. Women with self esteem issues might well seek out the 'bad guy' in the hope they can change him into the 'really nice guy they know he can be.' Because then they can love him, when he's changed. They fail to see they need to love him as he is now, for him to become the best person he can be. It can be like an addiction - the rollercoaster of adrenalin. And if the guy does change, ( and I know at least one woman who does this) does get over his addiction or whathaveyou - they get bored and find someone else to 'fix'

However this is not all women. If that was me I'd have kicked the bugger into touch waaay before now ( assuming I'd bothered with him in the first place) and he'd probably have a flat bit on the back of his head where I'd dinged him with the frying pan.

Don't judge me because of the actions of someone ten thousand miles away from me.

ETA: the only way she can get out of this is realising she needs to. I hope she has your support in that. A copy of 'Women Who Love Too Much' couldn't hurt either. Yeah, yeah a self help book - but I know at least three previously abused women who credit it with getting them out of those relationships and with a nice guy instead.

joyce
08-28-2008, 01:14 AM
Sure there are some women who keep going back to a jerk only to be abused, but there are men who do the same thing too. I do believe that sometimes when we are young, stupid things are important to us, not the quality of a person. I was very, very, very stupid my first time around and I'll be the first one to admit it. I just knew I could change him. I never did, so I changed me and got the hell out.

I bet if you ask any woman they will tell you they know a man/men who are with a bitch and she doesn't deserve him. Perhaps your wife was one of these women. Just because you had one bad experience with a woman doesn't mean all women are bad, door mats, or bitches. I know plenty of women who would like nothing more than to be with a good man. Sure there needs to be some kind of chemistry between two people but looks aren't everything.

My brother is into big boobed blondes (no I have nothing against big boobed blondes) so he's spent a lifetime trying to find the right girl. Everyone he has uses him and is as dumb as a rock. He wonders why he can't find a woman. I tell him all the time to at least find one that's blonde, big boobed and has at least passed 3rd grade. He's now 55 and still searching for that perfect girl. Perfect does not exist. We all have flaws whether we are great looking or dogs.

I'm so sorry you are so bitter and I hope you give women a chance. Trust me, there are decent ones out there. If I was interested in you and you came at me with this attitude, I'd look the other way because I'd figure you have too much of an attitude for me to even try to conquer. Good luck and I hope you feel better. :)

Beach Bunny
08-28-2008, 01:25 AM
I did everything I could for my wife. I wasn't the handiest of handy men, but I gave it my all. I'm not the best father but I spend as much time as I can with my kids, I tucked them in at night, took them with me on outings, planned my weekends to do things for them, fed them, cooked for my family, cleaned, did laundry, dishes. I did the absolute best with what I had, and it was never good enough. If you put my chore list in a column next to hers, I'd have FAR FAR more check marks in mine. I tried to reassure her of her looks, I left love notes in her car, her lunch, etc. I wasn't perfect but I spend the majority of my day thinking about what I could do to be the best husband and father I could be.

My bro in law gets to treat women like crap and have them pining for him. The difference between he and I? He's good looking, I'm fat and bald. He treats women like crap, and I've never been able to pull it off.

I'm convinced that what women SAY they want out of men is complete, and total bull crap. They SAY they want a sensitive, caring man that will take care of them, protect them, be a partner in life, etc but life has taught me that women want a challenge in the rough drinking man that gives them attention when and only when he feels like it.

Capt. Shady, I can totally relate to what you are saying. If you switched the roles here, that would be my experience. From my perspective, it looked like nice girls get passed over for the bitches. I think it is more universal. It seems like mean people are getting all the goodies and the nice people are getting the short end of a dirty stick. :(

Then I started looking at it from a different angle and decided that what looks like a really good deal on the surface is not that great when you hold a microscope up to it. I don't want to be in a relationship with someone I have to be mean and nasty to in order to keep them. And I've been divorced for fifteen years because I am not going to be treated like dirt. Yeah, I'd like to get remarried, but I am not going to settle for some guy who treats me like dirt just so I won't be alone. The loneliest feeling in the world is to live with someone you can't connect with.

:Hug2: Capt. Shady, there is a good woman out there just waiting for you to notice her and ask for her phone number. So go ahead and vent all the rage and frustration you feel, get it out of your system, so that you can recognize her when she sashays past. :)

kristie911
08-28-2008, 01:31 AM
I never knew I wanted to be treated like crap.

*thinks about it for a minute*

No, I don't want to be treated like crap. I'm positive.

Shweta
08-28-2008, 01:50 AM
Of course, the OP just got so much attention from us women with that unfortunate generalization that maybe it looks like we like being treated like crap :rolleyes:

mscelina
08-28-2008, 01:53 AM
Which is, methinks, precisely what he wanted.

Beach Bunny
08-28-2008, 01:53 AM
Of course, the OP just got so much attention from us women with that unfortunate generalization that maybe it looks like we like being treated like crap :rolleyes:
Or maybe it looks like there are a lot of women would be interested in a nice guy like Capt. Shady. :) It all depends on the angle you choose to look at it. :)

rhymegirl
08-28-2008, 01:54 AM
Okay, this is what I think.

I think that some women (and men) suffer from low self-esteem. Notice, I said some. If they were confident people who truly liked themselves, they would not allow others to treat them badly. Now, I do realize that some people suffer verbal and/or physical abuse from their partners and it takes a while for them to be able to leave. (for various reasons)

I happen to have a sister whose husband was verbally abusive. She is now divorced. I would not say that she "wanted to be treated like crap." She got married very young and I think at first she found some of the things he said kinda sexy and cool. And she liked the fact that he was good-looking and a "tough guy."

But as time went on, and she was maturing, the things he said weren't so cool anymore.

As people mature, I think they start to realize what is most important in a partner. I think we all want to be treated with respect, kindness and caring.

And as I said, people who don't really like themselves that much are more likely to allow themselves to be "treated like crap."

Shweta
08-28-2008, 02:00 AM
And as I said, people who don't really like themselves that much are more likely to allow themselves to be "treated like crap."

I think this bit's also a vicious cycle. Being treated like crap can eat away at what self-esteem a person has, and get them to accept being treated like crap, which...

Fraulein
08-28-2008, 02:12 AM
I want to be the breadwinner, because then I can dictate what I can do with my life with or without a significant other.

In the past, whenever I had thought that I wanted Mr. Charming, Good-Looking, and Rich, those thoughts made me see myself differently. It was like my life had to be cookie-cutter "perfect" in order to be that priceless, trophy wife. If I wasn't that "perfect", then I thought that I wasn't desirable enough to win Mr. Charming, Good-Looking, and Rich over.
What a waste of time...

I would rather own my own destiny than have someone else tell what I can and cannot do. In fact, I want to be the events coordinator in the relationship. Let me have control, please? ;)

Marian Perera
08-28-2008, 02:21 AM
Of course, the OP just got so much attention from us women with that unfortunate generalization that maybe it looks like we like being treated like crap :rolleyes:

But by that token, a nest of hornets likes being kicked over. ;)

Ol' Fashioned Girl
08-28-2008, 02:34 AM
I never knew I wanted to be treated like crap.

*thinks about it for a minute*

No, I don't want to be treated like crap. I'm positive.

I'm with kristie.

And I'm also really proud of the way y'all have been handling this conversation. It had a rocky start with that generalization business, but now it's rockin' right along with civility and respect. Let's keep it that way. :D

rhymegirl
08-28-2008, 02:39 AM
I'm with kristie.

And I'm also really proud of the way y'all have been handling this conversation.:D

Thank you. We are good doobies, yes?

TrainofThought
08-28-2008, 03:11 AM
Um, sorry ToT, but weren't you just demanding data and studies from others? And, to be fair, you should define what you mean by "security." Financial security? Emotional security? By your last statement, do you mean this is exclusively in the "men need women" direction or is it at all reciprocal? I'm just not sure how far you are going with your argument.True, but the difference is I at least stated, “and believe from proof around me” then laying out a blanket comment. I can deal with someone saying from their experience, because don’t we learn through our environment and experiences. I just want to know where someone gets their information when they layout comments without further explanation.

When I said security, I was referring to emotional based on how and what the men say in my life. Not MY men, friends and families men. I also see it at work and have had discussions with men regarding why they married.

As for the second part of my comment, I meant that men need the emotional connection with women, the taking care of and security of having a companion. I believe women don't need it like a man does. Sure, I'm not saying women don't want to feel loved, or have companionship, yet they can deal with being single then men.

I did some google searches to show that it isn’t just my thoughts and feelings about the subject. It's things I hear and read that make me believe in my statement proven by the actions of the men and women around me.

From a google search “Do Men need marriage more than women?”

First hit: http://www.allacademic.com/meta/p_mla_apa_research_citation/1/0/9/7/3/p109737_index.html

“Using data from the National Survey of Families and Households (1992-94), we show that according to these respondents, women 'need' children more than men do and men 'need' marriage more than women do.”

“If in the nineteenth century a wife was as necessary for a man as a husband for a woman (Martel 1962), by the 1950s it was primarily women who were thought to be incomplete without a home and family. Men were increasingly seen as seeking to be free of their familial responsibilities (Ehrenreich 1983). More recently, however, research results showing the greater benefit of marriage for men than for women on many dimensions, particularly physical and mental health (Bernard 1972; Waite and Gallagher 2000), have led many to argue that it is men who “need” marriage more than women.”

3rd Hit: http://www.usatoday.com/news/health/2006-05-31-men-study_x.htm

“Men are more likely than women to prefer marriage over lifelong singlehood… ”

10th Hit: http://www.glennsacks.com/census_shows_majority.htm

“The recent census data finding that for the first time the majority of American women are unmarried is being greeted in a largely celebratory tone.”

“Nevertheless, the message from the Times and numerous other news outlets is clear--marriage is in decline because men don't measure up, and are no longer needed nor often even wanted… The current trend away from marriage and towards divorce and/or remaining single has more to do with overcritical women and their excessive expectations than it does with unsuitable men.”

But this article does state that it believes women’s proclaiming to enjoy singlehood is hollow.

From a Google search, “Do men need marriage for security reasons?”

1st hit: http://www.boundlessline.org/2006/09/do_men_need_wom.html

“But men still need women. Even when they have endless options to pursue fantasy women, they still long for someone who will know them and love them deeply — and even someone who needs what they offer. Maybe that's why in a CDC study (http://www.cdc.gov/nchs/data/series/sr_23/sr23_026.pdf) this past May more men than women agreed with the statement "it's better to get married than to go through life being single" (Tables 37 and 38 of the study show that 66% of men agreed or strongly agreed with this statement compared to only 50.6% of women.”

I also explain some of my argument in a post I made in January 2007.

http://www.absolutewrite.com/forums/showpost.php?p=1062632&postcount=26

johnnysannie
08-28-2008, 03:13 AM
My soon to be former





I'm convinced that what women SAY they want out of men is complete, and total bull crap. They SAY they want a sensitive, caring man that will take care of them, protect them, be a partner in life, etc but life has taught me that women want a challenge in the rough drinking man that gives them attention when and only when he feels like it.

A bunch of you will respond with "not me" and from this moment on, I'll never believe that lie again.


Sweeping generalizations that "all women" are the same as those cited in your examples are wrong. Some women are just as you described but not all; the flip side is that not all men make the effort you described making with your wife.

Marian Perera
08-28-2008, 03:55 AM
When I was 16, I was involved with a guy who treated me badly, and I knew he was treating me badly. But I also felt I had to put up with the crap to get the good times - for instance, he was intelligent and daring and fun to be around when he wasn't nasty. After a while, though, he kind of escalated the bad treatment to the point where I'd had enough. So I did some investigating, found out he was so smart and daring that he had stolen books from the school library, and let the librarian know (I also supplied the books as evidence). He got into a lot of trouble and I never let anyone treat me like that again.

Moral of the story : even if you think a woman enjoys being treated like crap, be careful about doing so. She just might repay the favor eventually.

dgiharris
08-28-2008, 04:59 AM
I believe both sexes are guilty of the OPs comments.

There is almost an equation to this sort of thing. The better looking you are, the more attractive you are to the other sex (attraction being defined as what the opposite sex finds appealing) the more bullshit you can get away with.

If you are a good looking guy, make tons of money, and have great status, then consequently, you can be a complete asshole.

If you are a hot girl, a body made for sin, and are 'secure' with either money or plenty of suitors willing to buy you whatever you want, you can be a complete princess spoiled bitch.

I've seen examples of both. The key word is, "You can be..."

Many people choose not to be. Many people choose not to put up with it. But conversely, many people do choose to be and many do put up with it.

It is akin to the absolute power corrupts absolutely.

There is a lot of truth to that. For both sexes

Mel...

Phoebe H
08-28-2008, 05:04 AM
Captshady, I know you're pissed and it sounds like you've got a reason to be, but I have a different take on the evolution of these attitudes. I don't think women want to be treated like crap. In fact, those words strung together in that order are absurd.

What many people have is an addiction to the buzz of passion. When it happens automatically to propel people together, we call it chemistry. In entertainment and advertising this agitated state often figures prominently to advance drama because it is, in fact, very dramatic. But it's also short-lived in its most potent state. We live in constant vicarious arousal. We've come to think of it as normal and as if something is missing once it cools.

A close approximation of that feeling is the buzz of reunion. Many people have become so addicted to the oxytocin response that they will manufacture reunion scenarios (which can't happen without a rift) to simulate the original high.

It is, like any addiction, an affinity for a feeling - gone horribly wrong.

I agree with this. It is also worth noting that estrogen increases the brain's sensitivity to oxytocin. Which is to say, women tend to get more of an oxytocin high than men do, so they are more susceptible to this. But it can affect both men and women.