Dealing with a language barrier at work...

Jcomp · Aug 19, 2008

So, I've been on the boards a little while, and I hope most of you would agree that I've shown no inclination towards prejudice. I accept--nay, embrace--people from various backgrounds, races and nationalities.

But there are certain people starting to drive me crazy with their persistent refusal to communicate clearly. Yes, YOU people... you freaking IT people...

I'm a pretty bright dude--I like to think so anyway. I build websites, I know code, I'm not exactly lost when you use techno-terminology on me. But it still feels like we're speaking two different languages sometimes. I've searched the ends of the internet for some sort translation guide for terms that a regular person might think means one thing but an IT person interprets differently, but no such luck.

Example Convo:

ME: So the client just called in about Problem A that I reported to you last week. What's the latest on that?

IT DUDE: I was just about to email you. While researching Problem A I stumbled upon Problem B. Problem B's been out there for a while so I started working on that.

ME: Hm. Okay. Is Problem B somehow related to Problem A? As in Problem A can't be fixed until Problem B is fixed?

ITD: Nah. Just something I thought should be done. It's been sitting out there for a while.

ME: I understand that, but the thing is the client is specifically concerned with Problem A. I don't even think they're aware of Problem B, and near as I can tell Problem B is mostly comsetic while Problem A regards actual functionality.

ITD: Right, but once they see Problem B fixed they'll really be much happier with the product.

ME: I think they'd be even happier if Problem A was fixed, since that's what they initially reported as not working and they have no idea that Problem B even exists.

ITD: But wouldn't they happiest with both fixed? Anyway, I'm halfway through with Problem B already.

ME: So, if I let you finish that how long would it take for you to get around to Problem A?

ITD: About another week or so.

ME: (pinching bridge of nose) See... that's not... that's not gonna work. Problem A should be the priority.

ITD: But Problem B--

ME: "Has been out there for a while." I know. We'll come back to that, though? Okay? Promise.

ITD: (obviously disappointed and somewhat bemused)...All right, if you think that's what the client would want.

ME: I really do. I really do.

ITD: Fine. I suppose you don't even want to hear about Problems C through Quark then, huh?

ME: (Looking over ITD's notes) You know, "Product Lacking Hyperdrive and Flux Capacitor" isn't really a "problem"...

*****

I'm sorry, I really do not mean to offend any IT-nians that may frequent the boards. I'm just saying that when you're at work, speak basic Office-ese. Is that too much to ask?

quickWit · Aug 19, 2008

Jcomp said:
I'm just saying that when you're at work, speak basic Office-ese. Is that too much to ask?

Yes. Yes it is.

fecking users.

melaniehoo · Aug 19, 2008

I once worked at a place that had two levels of IT people: the ones who did on-site calls for our clients, and those that stayed in the office. It seems the "office bound" ones were harder to talk to.

I hope Problem A is being worked on now?

Beach Bunny · Aug 19, 2008

Um, I think you should change ITD to IDIOT. You get those in all fields, not just IT.

Shadow_Ferret · Aug 19, 2008

The reason they went into IT is because they CAN'T speak English, only computerese.

You know what's worse? IT people in India. Then you have the additional accent to contend with.

quickWit · Aug 19, 2008

melaniehoo said:
I hope Problem A is being worked on now?

As soon as IT dude is finished playing HALO over the office T3 line he'll get right on that Problem A...problem.

Jcomp · Aug 19, 2008

melaniehoo said:
I hope Problem A is being worked on now?

Not quite. I'm now getting "clarification questions" ostensibly about Problem A that really have to do with "Problem Non-Existent."

Mr Flibble · Aug 19, 2008

Beach Bunny said:
Um, I think you should change ITD to IDIOT. You get those in all fields, not just IT.

I resemble that remark!

I used to work in IT ( hubby still does). I have to say I didn't see any weird jargon in your exchange. Like sub net masks or anything. It's worse when they speak in letters. Your PCMCIA is bust, and your PCI needs an overhaul, plus your AGP has honey it.

You what I have to deal with. Eastern european builders who speak about three phrases of English. The accent's sexy mind.

melaniehoo · Aug 19, 2008

Jcomp said:
Not quite. I'm now getting "clarification questions" ostensibly about Problem A that really have to do with "Problem Non-Existent."

Well of course, the elusive Problem NE.

Beach Bunny · Aug 19, 2008

IdiotsRUs said:
I resemble that remark!

Let me clarify. This particular IT guy is an idiot because he doesn't seem to understand that giving the customer what he wants should be his first priority, not fixing something that hasn't been noticed as being broke. You'll find idiots in every field of endeavor. I know nuclear physicists who are idiots. (Now, that's a scary thought.) OP's problem is not that he is dealing with an IT person who can't speak english, but that he is dealing with an idiot. :Shrug:

Captshady said:
ROFL! I'm an IT guy, and TRUST me, we get it from the other end too.

Mgr: So when can we expect this new system?
Me: It's ready to go, but before we get it going, I need ALL the reports you're getting from the old system, so I can create them on the new system.

Mgr: Well how long after that can we use the new system?
Me: I don't know, how many reports are you getting?
Mgr: Not many

Me: I can't give you a time frame, until I have a copy of every single report that comes through this office from the old system.
Mgr: So we can't have the new system?

Me: Yes, I just need a copy of your reports.
Mgr: That's a lot of reports.
Me: Well the sooner you give them to me, the sooner we can get the ball rolling.

And it's now 4 months later, I can't go any higher up the chain of command to get reports, and I have in my possession, exactly zero.
Yet said manager is complaining about the new system not getting released to anyone that'll listen.

See? Capt. Shady has proved my point. The manager is an idiot.

Jcomp · Aug 19, 2008

Captshady said:
ROFL! I'm an IT guy, and TRUST me, we get it from the other end too.

Mgr: So when can we expect this new system?
Me: It's ready to go, but before we get it going, I need ALL the reports you're getting from the old system, so I can create them on the new system.

Mgr: Well how long after that can we use the new system?
Me: I don't know, how many reports are you getting?
Mgr: Not many

Me: I can't give you a time frame, until I have a copy of every single report that comes through this office from the old system.
Mgr: So we can't have the new system?

Me: Yes, I just need a copy of your reports.
Mgr: That's a lot of reports.
Me: Well the sooner you give them to me, the sooner we can get the ball rolling.

And it's now 4 months later, I can't go any higher up the chain of command to get reports, and I have in my possession, exactly zero.
Yet said manager is complaining about the new system not getting released to anyone that'll listen.

Ha! You seem to be dealing with one of those managers who speaks bad Managese. AKA the Language of Bottom Lines. "I want what I want and I can't be troubled with details of how to get what I want--especially if I have to be troubled to actually do something to get what I want--just give me what I want. Bottom line."

Maybe we're not so different after all...

Stew21 · Aug 19, 2008

Do you have any idea how much fun it was to work for a director of IT, helping him hire more IT guys?

IT Manager plus new recruit, plus me doing the communicating between - good times. Over 10 years of it. I got pretty good at the technical language, but throw in an inexperienced IT consultant sales guy and it gums it all up.

Now I write proposals. I understand those.

Mr Flibble · Aug 19, 2008

Lol Capt, my Old Man gets that all teh time.

Customer: We're having a problem with our e-mail server.
OM: OK make sure it's switched on and I'll remote access it to see what's wrong

Half hour later:

Customer: Did you fix it yet?
OM: Have you switched it back on yet?
C: *sounding confused* no
OM: If you don't switch it on I can't look at it from here.
C: OK

Half hour later

C: So, what's the problem.
OM: I don't know, you haven't switched it on yet.
C: Oh but I thought you could access it from your PC.
OM: I can, but only if your server is switched on
C: Oh but...
OM: If you like, instead of using your free remote access time, why don't I visit your office and charge you £70 per hour ( it's a 3 hour round trip) to SWITCH THE BLOODY THING ON!!!
C: No need to get shirty.
OM: OK, then switch it on.
C: Where's the button?

Cue OM chewing the woodwork

His most oft repeated motto is : The User is always stupid.

He once got called out at 3 in teh morning by a guy panicking because his company had a rush job on and the server had gone down. He drove in to discover this guy had locked himself out by typing his login wrong 3 times. The log in was his own surname. He was Mr Down.

Kitrianna · Aug 19, 2008

maestrowork · Aug 19, 2008

Jcomp said:
I'm sorry, I really do not mean to offend any IT-nians that may frequent the boards. I'm just saying that when you're at work, speak basic Office-ese. Is that too much to ask?

You poor mortals.

Here's another side of the story:

PM: I have a meeting with the client in one hour. Is the system ready for a demo?

Me: Sure, all you have to do is fire up the web browser and type in this URL.

PM: What is a web browser? What URL? What are you talking about?

Me: Um, you do know you're presenting a web-based Intranet application this morning, right?

PM: (blank stare)

Me: OK, what have you got? Can I see your presentation?

PM: (shows me a stick figure hand drawing of the "system" on a piece of Xerox paper)

Me: Um, you can't show the client this. Don't you have Powerpoint?

PM: Did it come with my laptop?

Me: Um, okay, give me 15 minutes and I'll get this done for you.

Pagey's_Girl · Aug 19, 2008

maestrowork said:
You poor mortals.

Here's another side of the story:

PM: I have a meeting with the client in one hour. Is the system ready for a demo?

Me: Sure, all you have to do is fire up the web browser and type in this URL?

PM: What is a web browser? What URL? What are you talking about?

Me: Um, you do know you're presenting a web-based Intranet application this morning, right?

PM: (blank stare)

Me: OK, what have you got? Can I see your presentation?

PM: (shows me a stick figure hand drawing of the "system" on a piece of Xerox paper)

Me: Um, you can't show the client this. Don't you have Powerpoint?

PM: Did it come with my laptop?

Me: Um, okay, give me 15 minutes and I'll get this done for you.

You just described a typical day at my old job. And I'm a secretary, not IT. "Here, let me have it. I'll fix it up for you..."

nicolen · Aug 19, 2008

Oh, do I know this one.

I work in the claims department for an insurance company, and I've been dealing with a claim for a written off vehicle. I'm ready to pay the client out except the premiums are outstanding by 9 cents. Yes, 9 cents. So I ring sales to get that amount written off, because it's obviously not worth collecting such a small amount.

They can't do that and it needs to go through to IT. That was 2 weeks ago and they still haven't sorted this 9 cents out. I ended up asking to be transferred to the IT manager who informed me that since the amount was so low, it wasn't economic for them to do anything about it - premiums would be taken on the 4th of September again and that would resolve it.

I was not happy - pointed out that the client would have been without their car since the 5th of August and that I'd spent up to 30 minutes per day EVERY day liasing with them and trying to explain to the client that this would be resolved really soon, I promise. So I'd spent somewhere between 4 and 5 hours on this one claim, and my time is definitely worth more than 2 cents per hour to the company. Manager has grudgingly conceded my point, so hopefully this is going to be resolved overnight. If not...it's going to get interesting for them!

Jcomp · Aug 19, 2008

maestrowork said:
You poor mortals.

Here's another side of the story:

PM: I have a meeting with the client in one hour. Is the system ready for a demo?

Me: Sure, all you have to do is fire up the web browser and type in this URL.

PM: What is a web browser? What URL? What are you talking about?

Me: Um, you do know you're presenting a web-based Intranet application this morning, right?

PM: (blank stare)

Me: OK, what have you got? Can I see your presentation?

PM: (shows me a stick figure hand drawing of the "system" on a piece of Xerox paper)

Me: Um, you can't show the client this. Don't you have Powerpoint?

PM: Did it come with my laptop?

Me: Um, okay, give me 15 minutes and I'll get this done for you.

Ha!

See, my gig is basically as a middle-man between IT and the client, so I have to know more than the average bear. But I've dealt with clients who are on that level of technologically impaired. I really shouldn't complain about the "language barrier" because if more IT guys were masters of communication I'd either have to really buckle down and learn .NET & SQL and all of the other stuff I've been ducking, or look for work elsewhere.

And every story eventually ends with us on the same page. It's just sometimes my IT dudes take detours through chapters of other books that aren't even on the curriculum before finally getting to page 1.

maestrowork · Aug 19, 2008

I'm in a rare position in which I can speak both ITese and Officese. I know exactly what a SQL statement looks like and what it does, and how an EJB work; at the same time I can decipher a risk analysis and P&L report and do one hell of a Powerpoint presentation. Still, most recruiters would only look at the acronyms on my resume and determine that I'm an out-of-this-planet tech guy who doesn't speak much English. Wait until they hear that I actually have written novels (and not SF/F!). Shocking.

Jcomp · Aug 19, 2008

maestrowork said:
I'm in a rare position in which I can speak both ITese and Officese. I know exactly what a SQL statement looks like and what it does, and how an EJB work; at the same time I can decipher a risk analysis and P&L report and do one hell of a Powerpoint presentation. Still, most recruiters would only look at the acronyms on my resume and determine that I'm an out-of-this-planet tech guy who doesn't speak much English. Wait until they hear that I actually have written novels (and not SF/F!). Shocking.

Impressive... but can you breakdance though? Can you do the robot? These are the kinds of things that get people hired...

benbradley · Aug 19, 2008

Jcomp said:
So, I've been on the boards a little while, and I hope most of you would agree that I've shown no inclination towards prejudice. I accept--nay, embrace--people from various backgrounds, races and nationalities.

I was thinking of a company I worked for ten years ago, it was a big French company, and one of the managers/principals at our location was from France, and had such a strong accent that I could hardly understand what he was saying. Fortunately my only interaction with him was listening to his monthly speeches in a conference room to everyone working at that location. This was the sort of "language barrier" I envisioned from the subject line.

But it was an interesting place to work for many reasons, one is that many of the people there came from other countries, and I learned a lot of things we wouldn't ordinarlily know. There was a certain product with a name that was an acronym from the words used to describe it, and it was a pronouncable (but nonsense in English) word, so that's what it was called. But someone heard it and said "Do you know what <product name> means in <non-English language>? It means <really obscene word>!"

But I read the rest of your rant, and it appears to be about something else:

Jcomp said:
But there are certain people starting to drive me crazy with their persistent refusal to communicate clearly. Yes, YOU people... you freaking IT people...

I'm a pretty bright dude--I like to think so anyway. I build websites, I know code, I'm not exactly lost when you use techno-terminology on me. But it still feels like we're speaking two different languages sometimes. I've searched the ends of the internet for some sort translation guide for terms that a regular person might think means one thing but an IT person interprets differently, but no such luck.

Example Convo:

ME: So the client just called in about Problem A that I reported to you last week. What's the latest on that?

IT DUDE: I was just about to email you. While researching Problem A I stumbled upon Problem B. Problem B's been out there for a while so I started working on that.

ME: Hm. Okay. Is Problem B somehow related to Problem A? As in Problem A can't be fixed until Problem B is fixed?

ITD: Nah. Just something I thought should be done. It's been sitting out there for a while.

ME: I understand that, but the thing is the client is specifically concerned with Problem A. I don't even think they're aware of Problem B, and near as I can tell Problem B is mostly comsetic while Problem A regards actual functionality.

ITD: Right, but once they see Problem B fixed they'll really be much happier with the product.

ME: I think they'd be even happier if Problem A was fixed, since that's what they initially reported as not working and they have no idea that Problem B even exists.

ITD: But wouldn't they happiest with both fixed? Anyway, I'm halfway through with Problem B already.

ME: So, if I let you finish that how long would it take for you to get around to Problem A?

ITD: About another week or so.

ME: (pinching bridge of nose) See... that's not... that's not gonna work. Problem A should be the priority.

ITD: But Problem B--

ME: "Has been out there for a while." I know. We'll come back to that, though? Okay? Promise.

ITD: (obviously disappointed and somewhat bemused)...All right, if you think that's what the client would want.

ME: I really do. I really do.

ITD: Fine. I suppose you don't even want to hear about Problems C through Quark then, huh?

ME: (Looking over ITD's notes) You know, "Product Lacking Hyperdrive and Flux Capacitor" isn't really a "problem"...

*****

I'm sorry, I really do not mean to offend any IT-nians that may frequent the boards. I'm just saying that when you're at work, speak basic Office-ese. Is that too much to ask?

I think language is only part of the problem here. I've spend several years as an embeded programmer and I can relate to what IT Dude was doing.

ITD sees Problem B as A Real Problem and that fixing it would be Really Helpful to Users.

However, you, on the frontline with actual customers, have never heard of Problem B, and the only customer complaint you have is with Problem A. ITD appears to have some confusion between "theoretical problem" that some customer may or may not know about, but hasn't complained about, and a "real problem" that a customer has indeed complained about. To ITD, these are both defects that simply must be fixed.

It's possible to say that ITD is "customer oriented," but only to some theoretical customer that knows all the problems with the system. But most businesses (and "customer interface" people such as you) know that success involves timely fixing of the problems that ACTUAL customers have, and that doing anything else becomes an exercise in frustration.

nicolen said:
Oh, do I know this one.

I work in the claims department for an insurance company, and I've been dealing with a claim for a written off vehicle. I'm ready to pay the client out except the premiums are outstanding by 9 cents. Yes, 9 cents. So I ring sales to get that amount written off, because it's obviously not worth collecting such a small amount.

They can't do that and it needs to go through to IT. That was 2 weeks ago and they still haven't sorted this 9 cents out. I ended up asking to be transferred to the IT manager who informed me that since the amount was so low, it wasn't economic for them to do anything about it - premiums would be taken on the 4th of September again and that would resolve it.

I was not happy - pointed out that the client would have been without their car since the 5th of August and that I'd spent up to 30 minutes per day EVERY day liasing with them and trying to explain to the client that this would be resolved really soon, I promise. So I'd spent somewhere between 4 and 5 hours on this one claim, and my time is definitely worth more than 2 cents per hour to the company. Manager has grudgingly conceded my point, so hopefully this is going to be resolved overnight. If not...it's going to get interesting for them!

The almost-first thing that comes to mind is to pull out your personal checkbook, write a check to the company for nine cents, and in the memo area put the customer's account number. Give it to Accounts Receivable and have them process it. Sure it may cost the company $20 to process the 9-cent payment, but (at least in hindsight) it would have saved the company money overall as well as saving you lots of time and frustration.

You could then add the 9 cents onto an expense report, but you best not as it would take another five hours to justify and explain it...

Jcomp · Aug 19, 2008

Captshady said:
Know any entry level or low level experienced programmers looking for a low paying state job? I could use the help.

Some folks I know from my old gig got hit with the layoff hatchet, so I actually might.

sassandgroove · Aug 19, 2008

better yet, ben, carry the nickel and four pennies over to the payment processing area.

benbradley · Aug 19, 2008

Jcomp said:
Impressive... but can you breakdance though? Can you do the robot? These are the kinds of things that get people hired...

Executive Dude (ED also stands for something I've heard about in commericals, but I'm trying not to go there): "Yes, ROBOTS! That's exactly what we [The Bureaurocracy within Large Corporation] need, more automatons who will do exactly what they're told, and not think for themselves!"

This is why you have to be so creative, to feed the bureaurocracy the input it expects (such as that 9-cent payment) to get the output you desire (getting the claim paid off).

You should always list your accomplishments on your resume, but you shouldn't neccesarily tell just how you accomplished those things...

benbradley · Aug 19, 2008

sassandgroove said:
better yet, ben, carry the nickel and four pennies over to the payment processing area.

I suspect an insurance company wouldn't know what to do with a cash payment ("these pennies are too small to write the account number on!"), and that's why I'd write the check...

Dealing with a language barrier at work...

Totally Ninja!

And thus we begin the edits

The Provocative One

Court Jester

Totally Ninja!

They've been very bad, Mr Flibble

And thus we begin the edits

The Provocative One

They've been very bad, Mr Flibble

Official Bad Cat's Prez

Fear the Death Ray

Still plays with dolls

Fear the Death Ray

It's a doggy dog world

Sassy haircut

It's a doggy dog world

It's a doggy dog world