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sheadakota
08-18-2008, 05:26 PM
I am having trouble with a crucial fight scene in my wip- unarmed guy vs guy armed with knife- Would anyone be willing to read the scene and help me choreograph it? Preeeetttyyyy pleaseeeee!:e2flowers

Sarpedon
08-18-2008, 05:30 PM
Sure, if I have time.

I've practiced fencing for several years. I've never taken any classes in knife fighting, but I've read various manuals, ancient and modern, and have some practical knowledge of unarmed vs armed combat.

So if you think my opinion would be useful, feel free to pass it on to me.

sheadakota
08-18-2008, 05:38 PM
Thank you! I'll pm you with the scene. I appreciate the time and advice.

Phil DeBlanque
08-18-2008, 05:41 PM
Well, it may help you some: look for Exposure, a 1991 movie with Peter Coyote. It may be titled as "A Grande Arte"

sheadakota
08-18-2008, 05:55 PM
Thanks Phil, I'll do that!

MelancholyMan
08-18-2008, 06:20 PM
Just keep this in mind when you go into it: Do you want realism or drama?

In real life fights are quick. And the armed guy, if he knows the least bit about what he is doing, will kill the unarmed guy. Usually in less than 30 seconds. If they are at the same level, the unarmed guy is still at a HUGE disadvantage. If he weren't then armies wouldn't use weapons. If the unarmed guy is highly trained, and the armed guy is not, then the unarmed guy can achieve a significant advantage, and again, the fight will be short.

Either way, in real life, the guy with the knife usually wins.

If you want drama, then find just about any action movie and watch that.

-MM

hammerklavier
08-18-2008, 06:44 PM
I don't know about that; in the movies the unarmed guy is usually smart enough to arm himself: with a chair, broken bottle, etc.

Summonere
08-18-2008, 07:07 PM
I'll be happy to look at what you've got, though I may have nothing useful to contribute.

Summonere
08-18-2008, 07:10 PM
P.S.

"The Hunted", with Tommy Lee Jones and Benicio Del Toro is all about a couple of knife guys, one played by Jones, the other by Del Toro. Rated "R" for strong bloody violence but, as I recall, one of the DVD extras includes interviews with the guy(s) who trained the actors to use knives.

dpaterso
08-18-2008, 07:12 PM
Hello! Share Your Work! Let us all take a stab at it. :D

One of the biggest laughs I've ever had -- class instructor gave student a rubber knife, then told the class he'd show us the best defense against a crazy guy with a knife. He spun on his heel and sprinted out of the gym like a rocket.

-Derek

sheadakota
08-18-2008, 07:15 PM
Hello! Share Your Work! Let us all take a stab at it. :D

One of the biggest laughs I've ever had -- class instructor gave student a rubber knife, then told the class he'd show us the best defense against a crazy guy with a knife. He spun on his heel and sprinted out of the gym like a rocket.

-Derek
SYW scares me when I know how much work this needs (Take a stab at it:ROFL:)

sheadakota
08-18-2008, 10:18 PM
Hmm. But would extenuating circumstances change those stats? My Mc (the unarmed guy) is a gentetically altered being. He has the power to heal or kill with a touch. Bad guy is genetically identical sans healing/killing power- Bad guy HATES good guy and wants him to suffer, not just die-so the knife strikes are calculated for pain and a slow death. I need it to look like both are dead at the end of the chapter.

FinbarReilly
08-19-2008, 12:59 AM
If that's the case, then the knife wielder is going to need to parry the touch (or just severely damage the hands) while concentrating on specific points while the unarmed guy just needs to grab the guy when he attacks.

If that's the case, then the unarmed character isn't so unarmed....

FR

MelancholyMan
08-19-2008, 06:05 PM
The master of fight choreography is Jackie Chan. Watch some Jackie Chan movies. His fights last forever but never get dull. Everyone involved gets the crap kicked out of them, including Chan, but it never seems to faze them until the end. And I swear Jackie Chan is genetically enhanced. No normal human can do what he does.

Another movie filled with long fight sequences is The Transporter. Throughout the movie Jason Statham always seems to be fighting people who are armed to the teeth and all he has are his fists... and teeth. Transporter II is no different.

-MM

JimmyB27
08-19-2008, 08:34 PM
I'm happy to take a look if you want. I have a few years worth of martial arts experience (Ju Jitsu for two and a half years, and now Bujinkan).
A few general pointers. If the guy with the knife is inexperienced, he is likely to be overly reliant on the knife, to the point of forgetting his other weapons (fists, elbows, knees, feet, head, teeth - the human body is a veritable arsenal if you know how to use it ;)). He is also likely to be overconfident - which isn't entirely misplaced, he does have the knife, but still can work to his detriment.

sheadakota
08-20-2008, 01:54 AM
You guys are the best! I know what you mean about Jackie Chan- the guy is amazing- I love watching him in action- my problem is getting the words to describe that! I will be sending the scene to all who said they would be willing to help- as soon as the novacaine wears off and I feel human again (rough day) thanks again!

JimmyB27
08-20-2008, 02:11 AM
You guys are the best! I know what you mean about Jackie Chan- the guy is amazing- I love watching him in action- my problem is getting the words to describe that! I will be sending the scene to all who said they would be willing to help- as soon as the novacaine wears off and I feel human again (rough day) thanks again!
Do bear in mind that if it's realism you are going for, Jackie Chan - awesome though he is - is about as unrealistic as you can be. Fights in real life do not last ten minutes. A guy punched five times in the head does not shrug it off and keep going.

StephanieFox
08-22-2008, 04:14 AM
JimmyB27

...Which you should know about since you are "Dazed and Confused". Ha!

Phoebe H
08-22-2008, 05:03 AM
You'll probably have plenty of responses, but I'd be willing to give it a read over, too.

My background is 2-3 years of doing choreographed melee combat shows.

Pretty much everything that has been said to this point is right on.

dgiharris
08-22-2008, 05:21 AM
I'd like to add that you do a mix of both, real and unreal.

Since your characters are not completely normal humans, there is going to be some already built in suspense of disbelief.

All you'd need to do is 'sprinkle' some realism in and the whole will appear real enough to the reader. As long as it is plausible given your world building, everything should be fine.

Just make sure you are true to character, that is the important thing.

In a nutshell, having been trained, if I was faced with an armed opponent (knife), my first reaction would be to put distance between us, the more the better (preferably with me running full speed away). If circumstance prevents it, then next immediate thought is to arm myself with ANYTHING. Chair, bottle, even taking my jacket off and wrapping it around my arm is an option. After that, if the fight ensues, I want every single blow I throw to be lethal. No pissing around. And most important, my focus is on the knife, isolating the knife and minimizing damage. You are taught that you use the outside of your forearm as a shield (no viens/arteries there).

The most realistic thing you can do is ensure the unarmed person gets cut. Cut a lot. Also ensure there is plenty of blood, and with blood comes slipperiness

anyways, sorry to ramble.

Good luck

Mel...

sheadakota
08-22-2008, 05:32 AM
Ramble away! this is excellent advice, as is all the advice I have been given- I agree a mixture of believable and drama is excactly what I need here-I am realizing just how weak this scene is and know I have a lot of work to do. But thanks to everyone, at least I have somewhere to start- Thank you!

FinbarReilly
08-22-2008, 01:14 PM
You know: If he really does have the power to kill with a touch, and his opponent knows it, there wouldn't be a knife fight. After all, the MC merely has to grapple the guy or even just grab his opponent's wrist when he attacks, and the fight is over.

Conversely, his opponent isn't going to close and would definitely not be taking his time even if he did. He'd use a net gun or some other form of taking his opponent out from a distance...

FR

sheadakota
08-22-2008, 05:00 PM
True, but I left out the part where MC's powers don't work with his brother, so he really is unarmed-(They are genetically identical so it would be like hurting himself-)