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Kristy101081
08-17-2008, 08:49 AM
OK, my story has a little bit of military strategy involved and I need to know where to research the information I need to make it realistic.

Specifically, if a country decided to invade another country that the U.S. said they would step in if that happened, at what point do they step in and how do they go about doing the stepping?

As always, thanks for the help and advice!

GeorgeK
08-17-2008, 05:06 PM
If you have fictional leaders of countries you could do pretty much anything you wanted because ultimately the decisions do come down to the president and the leader of the other country as to what they would actually do. The president might decide to invade and or airlift supplies, or might decide to talk to congress first (legally he wouldn't have to except to inform them within 30 days so they could decide as to wether they want to fund the mission), or might decide to present the situation to NATO or the UN.

The other country...it depends on that country what if any necessary actions must take place. The more of a dictatorship it is, the less politics will be involved

Linda Adams
08-17-2008, 08:52 PM
Try researching the first Persian Gulf War. I remember that one moved very fast (I was in the military at the time). The first line troops were deployed very quickly--if memory serves, they were headed overseas within twenty-four hours. Should be a lot of information in the major newspapers on the events as they unfolded.

Kristy101081
08-17-2008, 10:23 PM
Try researching the first Persian Gulf War. I remember that one moved very fast (I was in the military at the time). The first line troops were deployed very quickly--if memory serves, they were headed overseas within twenty-four hours. Should be a lot of information in the major newspapers on the events as they unfolded.

Thanks Linda...do you know what happened once they arrived overseas - from your perspective? I imagine it wasn't a jump off the plane and join the fight kind of situation.

Kristy101081
08-17-2008, 10:28 PM
Thanks for the info, George. I'm not really worried about Congress in this case, the fact is, we've already said we'd step in if this country invaded the other, so I can take that in my script at face value and launch an attack. I guess I'm just trying to figure out at what point I'd do that - when the invading country crosses the border? And then, how do we get involved? Do we just join forces with the country that's been invaded and go at it? Or is it something more subtle? Or, do we come up from behind and lock them in the middle. I have no military experience at all and I was never very good at the board game Risk, so my strategic military experience is nil. Just looking for realism to this piece of the story.

Robert Toy
08-17-2008, 10:50 PM
Iraq invaded Kuwait (August 2, 1990), movement of U.S. supplies and troops (August 7, 1990) to initial strikes (Jan 17, 1991), slightly over 5 months.

From a military strategy POV, Saddam screwed up by allowing the coalition to build up. If he had moved south into Saudi Arabia to Ras Tanura, the outcome of the Gulf War could have been much different.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Timeline_of_the_Gulf_War

waylander
08-17-2008, 11:42 PM
Thanks for the info, George. I'm not really worried about Congress in this case, the fact is, we've already said we'd step in if this country invaded the other, so I can take that in my script at face value and launch an attack. I guess I'm just trying to figure out at what point I'd do that - when the invading country crosses the border? And then, how do we get involved? Do we just join forces with the country that's been invaded and go at it? Or is it something more subtle? Or, do we come up from behind and lock them in the middle. I have no military experience at all and I was never very good at the board game Risk, so my strategic military experience is nil. Just looking for realism to this piece of the story.

I would imagine the planes would be first in, whether from an aircraft carrier or from a base in a neighbouring country.

hammerklavier
08-18-2008, 12:49 AM
You need a staging area. In WWII, our main staging area to attack Europe and North Africa was England; to attack the south pacific it was our Navy and various islands we had captured. In the first gulf war it was Saudi Arabi; second gulf war, Kuwait.

Once you establish a "beachhead", that is, a gathering of military units on the beach (or within the borders of enemy territory) you need to push forward as quickly as possible. In WWII one of our first invasions of Italy failed to do that and our entire force was pinned down and bombed mercilessly by the Germans. You don't want to be a sitting target. French defenses at the start of WWII were impressive, but were not mobile, the Germans simply drove around them.

The oldest stategy in the books is the "outflank" stragety, and is still one of the best. You try to get behind the enemy and attack him from multiple sides, surround him, cut off his supplies.

And ditto the post above, first thing is bombardment, in the old days it was done with artillery, now it's done with aircraft. Tactical bombardment tries to destroy tanks, planes, and military units, command posts and sometimes bridges and roads. Strategic bombardment targets factories, office buildings, internet routers and power plants. In WWII it also targeted civilians, but that's not considered acceptable any longer.

Robert Toy
08-18-2008, 01:11 AM
You need a staging area. In WWII, our main staging area to attack Europe and North Africa was England; to attack the south pacific it was our Navy and various islands we had captured. In the first gulf war it was Saudi Arabi; second gulf war, Kuwait.

Once you establish a "beachhead", that is, a gathering of military units on the beach (or within the borders of enemy territory) you need to push forward as quickly as possible. In WWII one of our first invasions of Italy failed to do that and our entire force was pinned down and bombed mercilessly by the Germans. You don't want to be a sitting target. French defenses at the start of WWII were impressive, but were not mobile, the Germans simply drove around them.

The oldest stategy in the books is the "outflank" stragety, and is still one of the best. You try to get behind the enemy and attack him from multiple sides, surround him, cut off his supplies.

And ditto the post above, first thing is bombardment, in the old days it was done with artillery, now it's done with aircraft. Tactical bombardment tries to destroy tanks, planes, and military units, command posts and sometimes bridges and roads. Strategic bombardment targets factories, office buildings, internet routers and power plants. In WWII it also targeted civilians, but that's not considered acceptable any longer.
Getting behind enemy lines…the following is your entire fault!

Strategy question, although Turkey and Greece are members of NATO, and keeping in mind the ancient hostilities between them – If Iran attacked Turkey from the rear, would Greece help?

Linda Adams
08-18-2008, 01:30 AM
Thanks Linda...do you know what happened once they arrived overseas - from your perspective? I imagine it wasn't a jump off the plane and join the fight kind of situation.

Well, I can tell you what happened when I went over there. An advance team went ahead of us. I believe this is because of a plane crash a number of years ago where all the soldiers were killed, and their medical and dental records were destroyed. The advance team carries everyone's medical records, except their own.

We arrived in the middle of the night, and buses took us to a staging area. Basically, it was a truck carport furnished with latrines, showers, and a portable mess hall. We slept on the ground the first night. The next morning, the cooks with us cooked T-Rations for breakfast. We did police call (picked up trash) and then pretty much waited for a couple hours. The advance party began trucking people to our site a few miles away, a few people at a time.

Once we arrived, we put up GP Medium tents (if you've seen MASH, that's the tent). The trucks were already there, though they had to cut off all the locks (seems they left the box containing the keys on my desk back home). The drivers were already moving out on missions even while the rest of us were trying to set up camp.

Supplies was a big issue. I know for the initial soldiers that went in, the supply resources of the time weren't even set up. I remember news stories saying how they needed the basics like toilet paper and toothpaste. Though the system was set up by the time we arrived three months later, we did have trouble with supplies. We were supposed to be under our battalion commander from the post, but the army decided to move us under a transportation group that wasn't due to arrive for six weeks. The old battalion cut us off completely, and we ended up with no one to order supplies through. Even water, which was readily available, became very problematic (the battalion actually put someone on duty to mark down how many boxes of water a unit picked up, and this was because of a political battle involving our unit). Our supply sergeants had to do a lot of work trying to find alternate resources for supplies. Once we moved and joined the transportation group, the supply problems cleared up.

USA Today will be a good resource for info. You might also try the Tacoma Morning News Tribune.

Tsu Dho Nimh
08-18-2008, 04:44 AM
Thanks for the info, George. I'm not really worried about Congress in this case, the fact is, we've already said we'd step in if this country invaded the other, so I can take that in my script at face value and launch an attack. I guess I'm just trying to figure out at what point I'd do that - when the invading country crosses the border? And then, how do we get involved? Do we just join forces with the country that's been invaded and go at it? Or is it something more subtle? Or, do we come up from behind and lock them in the middle. I have no military experience at all and I was never very good at the board game Risk, so my strategic military experience is nil. Just looking for realism to this piece of the story.

FIRST: Blind them (take out or disrupt the radar and telecom systems)

SECOND: Behead them (take out as many high-ranking officials as possible)

THIRD: Immobilize them (blow up enough railroads, runways and roads that movement is difficult)

Then you can start pounding on them fairly safely, preferably from a distance with big artillery and guided bombs.

******************
ADDING: A friend was with one of the medical units near the Kuwaiti border during the build-up to Desert Storm. During the night they could often hear land mines exploding (the Iraqis had laid them), as Iraqi troops tried to desert from where they had been entrenched for a couple of months. In the morning they would recieve any who made it through the mine fields.

Most of the deserters were conscripts in appalling condition: Malnutrition verging on clinical scurvy, starvation to the point of emaciation, trench foot, body lice, head lice, pubic lice, scabies, impetigo, oozing sores, intestinal parasites ... things you would expect to see in a homeless derelict were the norm for those men. The commanders had given no thought to maintaining health, and all the good supplies were going to the usual cronies and the dregs went to the conscripts.

The routine was to give them something light to eat, strip them, burn their clothing, bathe them in insecticidal soap, shave all hair off to take care of the lice nits, give them clean jammies and slippers and hand them over to the nursing staff to start an IV for meds and make a list of things that needed to be cured.

Among the phrases she learned were, "We don't shoot patients", "How many days has it been since you ate?", and "Yes, I am a real Captain." (she was a blue-eyed blonde who looked about as military as Cameron Diaz, and had the disposition of Boadicea)

hammerklavier
08-18-2008, 06:47 PM
Getting behind enemy lines…the following is your entire fault!

Strategy question, although Turkey and Greece are members of NATO, and keeping in mind the ancient hostilities between them – If Iran attacked Turkey from the rear, would Greece help?


I don't think they would, mostly because their army is small and there are so many other Nato members who would be involved. But then again, maybe they would. Either way, they would hardly be noticed. OXI

Willowmound
08-19-2008, 02:16 AM
An attack on any NATO member is considered an attack on all. So Greece would help. That's what the alliance is about.

MelancholyMan
08-19-2008, 06:20 PM
Specifically, if a country decided to invade another country that the U.S. said they would step in if that happened, at what point do they step in and how do they go about doing the stepping?


It is happening right now. Russia is all over Georgia and we have treaties with Georgia. Keep watching.

But basically, we will not get involved unless our interests become compromised. Treaty or no. When Iraq invaded Kuwait for instance, I think maybe... oil was the driving issue? If a nation has nothing to 'offer', we won't 'offer.'

Now there is a pipeline that crosses Georgia to the Black Sea but I don't know if we buy much of that product.

As far as the stepping, it begins with sanctions, then a blockade. During this time a vigorous counter-government campaign would begin with CIA operatives mobilizing and funding any opposition groups they could find. They would want this 5th Column in place if there was to be an attack. Next would follow a long period of 'negotiations' as we collected intelligence on military targets and strengthed internal resources, i.e, had indigenous units ready to strike from the inside. If an attack actually occured, it would begin with air strikes on command and control. Basically, make it difficult or impossible for the military leaders to communicate with their forces, and difficult or impossible for the leaders to know what is happening. (This works best if they are all dead.) When air superiority has been achieved and command and control seriously compromised, ground forces would be dispatched to quicky destroy main resistance and cut off lines of supply and communication, thereby isolating the leadership and their military infrastructure.

This is the plan. Execution and success depends on many factors including size of the region being attacked, response of the population, response of the opposing military, response of surrounding nations and other world powers, and success of the 5th Column in staging a coup d'etat winning over the population. Ultimately the goal of any US incursion is to overthrow the existing government and install one that is stable and sympathetic to U.S. interests.

-MM