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bylinebree
08-16-2008, 02:58 PM
Hey there, long time no-on the Forum! But I'm back...hopefully for a while.

Never been to the UK (but would love to go!) And "British men" and the occasional setting there keep creeping into my stories. Like so many Americans, I love many things "British." Or is it "English?" I'm confused.

Which is it, when and why? I met a man at a writer's conference and called him "British" and he smiled patiently at me, and said "I'm English." During the course of our conversation, I never could ascertain why he corrected me.

What the heck do you call yourselves?

mab
08-16-2008, 03:26 PM
the term 'British', whilst correct, tends to be used mostly by non-Brits
If someone says 'British accent' they definitely aren't British!:tongue

Personally I don't mind being called British or English. I usually refer to myself as 'from the UK', but I don't really care. Some do though! National and regional identity can be strong.

People tend to think British=English. Its not so simple.

In fact Great Britain is made up of England, Scotland, Wales, and Northern Ireland. Some people prefer to think of themselves as English, Scottish, Welsh etc...rather than British (even though they're technically both). Other people take great pride in their particular region, and think of themselves as 'Cornish' or 'from Yorkshire' first and foremost. Its a can of worms, really! Best to ask.

There is no such thing as a 'British accent'. Many accents, yes! Would you say a Scot has a British accent? Well they do! Its a bit of a silly term really, please don't use it (not that you do...)

And our islands are called 'Great Britain' or 'United Kingdom' ...apparently there's a difference but honestly I don't know what it is. ETA: Apparently UK includes Northern Ireland, GB does not. Well, now I know!

bylinebree
08-16-2008, 03:48 PM
Mab: I had a "duh!" moment reading your reply, as in Great Britain...oh yeah...all that would be "British" wouldn't it?

Glad to hear that the term "British accent" is not used - but by us generalistic Americans! Of course, we don't use "American accent" for ourselves but do talk about Brits who try to lose their accent for a film role, for example:

"His American accent was pretty good, overall, but for few times his vowels sounded weird." (a comment about Iaon Gryffudd in The Fantastic Four)

Collin Farrell is very, very good at doing a neutral sort of American accent. There'a few actresses who pull one off very well, also, but I can't think of a name to save me.

Thanks for your patient and helpful answer! This should send me back to an atlas in the near future.

How do you react to American writers who "write Brits" and don't quite get it right? Does it jar you out of the story?

qwerty
08-16-2008, 03:52 PM
Can't think why the guy corrected you. If he's English, he's also British. I always give my nationality as British, but then, my hubby is of Scots descent, so it covers us both.

It's a bit like when I recognise someone is speaking with either an Australian or New zealand accent but I'm not 100% sure which, I refer to them as Antipodean to be on the safe side - coward that I am.

bylinebree
08-16-2008, 04:05 PM
...and Antipodean sent me scrambling to my Oxford dictionary!

waylander
08-16-2008, 04:11 PM
And our islands are called 'Great Britain' or 'United Kingdom' ...apparently there's a difference but honestly I don't know what it is. ETA: Apparently UK includes Northern Ireland, GB does not. Well, now I know!

The United Kingdom of Great Britain and Northern Ireland is the full title.
Great Britain is just Wales, Sctoland and England.
The British Isles is Great Britain and Ireland.

Many English people will answer to British; most Scots, Welsh and Irish will assert that they are Scottish, Welsh or Irish

As for US writers getting Brits 'wrong'. It does pull me out of a story. There are plenty of us around to ask about stuff

mab
08-16-2008, 04:13 PM
you don't usually say 'American accent?' Huh! Is it just not specific enough? I mean, I do occasionally say 'English accent' or 'Welsh accent' 'Scottish accent' etc....but its more useful for me to say 'Glaswegian accent' or 'Scouse (liverpudlian) accent' as thats more specific.

I'm trying to think of Americans writing Brits...hmm. The one which pops out in my mind is good old Buffy, a US show with quite a few English characters...I really loved Giles, even though in some respects he was the cliche of a stuffy, bookish Englishman...but he seemed real, he had the dry sense of humour and dark side of a Brit. (English actor also helped). Whilst Wesley was JUST the priggish cliche, he really annoyed me and was very unrealistic. I can't really think of an example from a novel, possibly 'cos I don't read all that much American contemporary fiction, but I can imagine it would annoy me and pull me out of the story.

I suppose the main mistakes are thinking we all live in the 1950s (or earlier!), that we're all white, we're all posh, or that we're all a bit Hugh Grant. There certainly are a lot of posh people, but they're in the minority. And only a few of these posh people are bumbling Hugh Grant types.

Mandy-Jane
08-16-2008, 04:13 PM
It's a bit like when I recognise someone is speaking with either an Australian or New zealand accent but I'm not 100% sure which, I refer to them as Antipodean to be on the safe side - coward that I am.

Oh no! Don't tell me you confuse us with those funny-speaking New Zealanders! ;)

qwerty
08-16-2008, 04:45 PM
Renee Zellwegger made a splendid fist of a Brit accent in Briget Jones.

mab
08-16-2008, 05:10 PM
yes, but Keanu was the best (awful English accent ever..)

In fact many US actors, such as Gwyneth, do excellent UK accents. She's so convincing she had me fooled!

But its the terrible ones that have stayed with me to haunt me forever...Kevin Costner as Robin Hood (didn't even try!) Dick Van Dyke....

then again there are a LOT of Brits playing Yanks at the mo...not all with accuracy I bet!

Jill
08-16-2008, 05:36 PM
I'm both British and English - a British citizen, resident of Spain, spent my childhood in Southern Africa, many of my adult years in Nigeria and Northern Ireland. But I'm still English and British and most of the time happy to admit it.

qwerty
08-16-2008, 05:42 PM
Some valid points in there, mab. Like, why the heck have Costner play Robin Hood when there are plenty of genuine Brit actors around. As for DVD - ooh, interesting set of initials there - trying to play a Brit role opposite Julie Andrews . . .

All of which makes me wonder if, as writers, we are too sensitive about creating out of our own nationality characters.

Carmy
08-16-2008, 06:46 PM
I live in Canada now. Some people ask me if I'm English, because my accent isn't pure Canajian, eh, so they know I'm from somewhere else. English is a guess. My answer is: "Welsh."

Oddly, many Newfoundlanders sound more English than the English. I've been fooled a few times.

bylinebree
08-16-2008, 06:50 PM
"Welsh" ha.
Yeah, Kevin Costner did make me cringe. But how strange was it to have Hayley Mills as the Classic American Teen in Disney movies with her English accent? (I almost needed therapy for that one LOL)

I love Maeve Binchy's writing, but when she tries to do "Americanese" in dialogue, I roll my eyes - she still sounds British. It's so hard to shake off those ingrained, native language patterns!

I tend to think of my own U.S. nationality as a bit boring...though I know it thoroughly (in certain geographic areas anyway). Writing an American character would be easy, of course. But who wants easy??

Here's another q: Are you Brits as fascinated with America as so many of are, with your country etc? Especially American women - we seem to just puddle into goo at a man with a British accent...Scottish, Irish, English, doesn't matter.

Priene
08-16-2008, 07:14 PM
And only a few of these posh people are bumbling Hugh Grant types

Hey, I'm not posh, but I've had my share of Hugh Grant moments. I've never had an American woman puddle-ize into goo in front of me, though. Perhaps my broad Norfolk rendition of 'On the ball, City' is putting them off.

There's been an upsurge in English national feeling in the last few years. Prior to Scottish/Welsh devolution, you never saw English flags or people celebrating St George's Day. Some English people have started to define themselves as not-British. For my own part, I've always thought the essence of Englishness is not caring either way about being English. If there's no sport on the telly, I'd rather have a tooth pulled than call myself 'English'.

You can differentiate New Zealanders from Aussies because the former pronounce 'e' as 'i'. If they say 'yis', they're a Kiwi.

qwerty
08-16-2008, 07:28 PM
Are you Brits as fascinated with America as so many of are, with your country etc?

Um, not personally.



If they say 'yis', they're a Kiwi.

Or South African.

waylander
08-17-2008, 02:55 AM
Here's another q: Are you Brits as fascinated with America as so many of are, with your country etc? Especially American women - we seem to just puddle into goo at a man with a British accent...Scottish, Irish, English, doesn't matter.

Basically no.
Now French women.......

rugcat
08-17-2008, 03:07 AM
yes, but Keanu was the best (awful English accent ever..)

In fact many US actors, such as Gwyneth, do excellent UK accents. She's so convincing she had me fooled!

But its the terrible ones that have stayed with me to haunt me forever...Kevin Costner as Robin Hood (didn't even try!) Dick Van Dyke....

then again there are a LOT of Brits playing Yanks at the mo...not all with accuracy I bet!Hugh Laurie does a perfect American accent on House. If you had never seen him on Fry and Laurie or as Bertie Wooster, you'd never tumble to the fact he's English.

But how about James Marsters?(Spike on Buffy) He's from California, but I totally bought his accent. What say our British friends?

Kristy101081
08-17-2008, 08:45 AM
Wow, what an interesting thread...and I've learned stuff I didn't know. I thought I was pretty much up on my English culture. Ah, well.

Now, y'all - yes I'm a southern belle, so my American accent (I use the term, some don't) does have a bit of a twang to it - are breaking my heart with this not caring for American women bit. I am totally with Bree - a man is instantly more attractive when they have an English accent - well, any European accent really. I prefer English and Irish, just personal preference. You could curse me out and I'd still smile all dreamy-eyed. OK, not really. But, you get the point. So what is it? Are we too available in that we are fascinated with the culture, do you think? Or is it something else?

Priene
08-17-2008, 08:48 AM
But how about James Marsters?(Spike on Buffy) He's from California, but I totally bought his accent. What say our British
friends?

Every time he opened his mouth I wanted to punch it closed. After that, repeat the treatment with double portions of ferocity on Daphne Moon from Frasier. Unbelievably, she's English and still can't do the accent.

qwerty
08-17-2008, 09:46 AM
Now French women.......

I live in France but I've got an East Anglian accent - guess that's a no no.

frimble3
08-17-2008, 10:39 AM
I'm thinking that the closest approximation of the "I'm not British, I'm English" thing in American terms would be if an Englishman were to call a visiting American a "Yankee" and get a snarled, "I'm no Yankee, I'm from Alabama!" in return. Or "I'm a Texan!" A person self-identifying with a particular region(country) rather than a political division.But then, I'm Canadian, what do I know?

eyeblink
08-17-2008, 10:58 AM
The United Kingdom of Great Britain and Northern Ireland is the full title.
Great Britain is just Wales, Sctoland and England.
The British Isles is Great Britain and Ireland.


Also, the Isle of Man and the Channel Islands (Jersey, Guernsey, Sark, Alderney) are part of the British Isles but are NOT part of the United Kingdom nor part of the European Union. They are self-governing Crown Dependencies.

All the other smaller islands (The Isle of Wight, Isles of Scilly, Anglesey, Inner and Outer Hebrides, Orkney Islands, Shetland Islands etc) are part of England, Wales or Scotland, depending on location.

Priene
08-17-2008, 08:06 PM
Have any of you .. umm .. UK'ers seen Parent Trap with Lindsey Lohan? She supposedly had an accent coach.

I'm sad to say I've missed Ms Lohan's oeuvre in its entirety.

But the best English accent by an American was Renee Zellweger, and that's a fact. I can't judge whether Hugh Laurie on House does a convincing American, but every time I hear him I think of the American ass (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=N8qw3oWvDpo) sketch.

Nakhlasmoke
08-17-2008, 08:27 PM
Um, not personally.



Or South African.

News to me.

:P

I always thought it was the ja that gave a souff efricen away

Mr Flibble
08-17-2008, 09:31 PM
I always thought it was the ja that gave a souff efricen away Or the way they end a question sentence with 'hey?'

I alwys used to say Brit, but since devolution it seems a little silly that the only ones calling themselves Brits are the English. So I call myself English, even though parts of me aren't. My left leg is from just outside Inverness.

Nakhlasmoke
08-17-2008, 09:37 PM
Or the way they end a question sentence with 'hey?'

....

Ugh, I know.

Shara
08-17-2008, 10:28 PM
I would agree with those who say that it tends to be the English who define themselves as 'British', and the Scottish, Welsh and Irish who define themselves as such. I always put 'British' when filling in forms that ask for my nationality, but technically I'm English.

Renee Zellweger's accent in Bridget Jones wasn't bad, but far too plummy. Americans doing an English accent often make the mistake of doing the 'posh' accent. You never hear an American trying to do a Mancunian or a Birmingham accent, for instance. I am sure Brits make the same mistake when trying to do an American accent.

'Buffy' has a lot of convincing English characters with convincing English slang words, but I know Joss Whedon grew up and went to school in Britain, so I assume the inside knowledge helps!

As has already been said, Americans doing Brits should do the research, and vice versa. Too many American films with scenes set in Britain have the annoying stereotypes - there's always a red double decker bus going past Big Ben or Buckingham Palace, a quiet country road (usually right after the scene with the double decker bus, which is amusing in itself - you have to be a long way from London to find quiet country roads) and an eccentric upper class lady in tweed and wellington boots.

Shara

Mr Flibble
08-17-2008, 10:32 PM
You never hear an American trying to do a Mancunian or a Birmingham accent, for instance.

Brad Pitt was fantastic in Snatch though, and about as far from posh as you can get - which shows he has the acting chops when he wants to use them.

Shamisen
08-18-2008, 04:27 PM
Wasn't Brad Pitt in Snatch doing an Irish accent though? Must admit that I haven't seen it myself but know that it was derided by many.

I would personally describe myself as English as England is the country I am from specifically. I must confess that there is a rising trend, as I see it, for people from England to refer to themselves as English - if the Welsh are Welsh and the Scottish are Scottish, why can we be proud of our country and call ourselves English. I think a lot of it stems from feeling that we should't feel 'ashamed' of our nationality any more and there is pride in being an Englishman or woman. But we may refer to ourselves as being a Brit though as that's a nice, crisp descriptor.

I am constantly surprised that people think Hugh Laurie does a good job of an American accent though! Now John Mahoney - there's a good example of an Englishman doing an American accent. Jane Leeves - terrible terrible terrible! Thanks for nothing. And, for the record, I have never heard anyone (regardless of origin) refer to an umbrella as a 'bumbershoot', and we are fully aware of what the term 'knocked me up' really means :)

And - was Kevin Costner really attempting an English accent in Robin Hood? Really?


Really?

bylinebree
08-18-2008, 08:52 PM
And - was Kevin Costner really attempting an English accent in Robin Hood? Really?




No, my point was that he didn't even TRY to do one! That I recall. Maybe this was for the best?

Just btw, I don't plan to have any tweedy ladies in my novel, which is set in, ahem, England; specificially London and Cambridge. No red double deckers either, that I can think of. An elegant rich lady who dresses and has a secret vice of watching soaps though.

Or - what do you call daytime TV serials/soap operas over there, anyway? This is for everyone but IdiotsRus' left leg in Inverness :tongue

bylinebree
08-18-2008, 08:57 PM
Americans doing an English accent often make the mistake of doing the 'posh' accent. You never hear an American trying to do a Mancunian or a Birmingham accent, for instance. I am sure Brits make the same mistake when trying to do an American accent.


Shara

I'd love to know what a Mancunian (where is that?) or Birmingham accent sounds like!

Over here (States) my redneck, Southern father-in-law, God rest his soul, would've pronounced that "Bummin'ham." And of course Atlanta was "Etlanna." There's a hilarious book called "How to Speak Southern" that my mom gave me, before I married a boy from Georgia.

I wonder if there's an equivalent of "How to Speak Brit"? (though I know I mean English, but that just wouldn't work for a title now, would it?)

Mr Flibble
08-18-2008, 09:00 PM
I'm sure you know a brummy accent - think Ozzy Osbourne :)

And Mancunian - the Gallagher's from Oasis.




Or - what do you call daytime TV serials/soap operas over there, anyway?

Crud? Na, just daytime telly / soaps.

Kristy101081
08-18-2008, 11:23 PM
Over here (States) my redneck, Southern father-in-law, God rest his soul, would've pronounced that "Bummin'ham." And of course Atlanta was "Etlanna." There's a hilarious book called "How to Speak Southern" that my mom gave me, before I married a boy from Georgia.

*long and exasperated sigh*

That book is so goofy! Not everyone from the South talks like that! It really amazes me that people get these stereotypes in their heads and then that's all they see. Every time I fly out to L.A. to meet with someone, I get asked at least a dozen times whether we really ride our horses to work and school. To which I always reply that we stopped using horses several years ago because of the mess they left on the road. We've upgraded to these new-fangled inventions called cars that go really fast and run on some weird liquid. Usually some car is zooming by and I tell the person to look there, there's one now. I smile and walk off, leaving them with the funniest facial expressions.

Come on people! Just because we're from the South doesn't mean we live in a different century...Now, backwoods rednecks is a whole different story.

Priene
08-18-2008, 11:23 PM
I'd love to know what a Mancunian (where is that?) or Birmingham accent sounds like!

Over here (States) my redneck, Southern father-in-law, God rest his soul, would've pronounced that "Bummin'ham." And of course Atlanta was "Etlanna." There's a hilarious book called "How to Speak Southern" that my mom gave me, before I married a boy from Georgia.

I wonder if there's an equivalent of "How to Speak Brit"? (though I know I mean English, but that just wouldn't work for a title now, would it?)

Here, courtesy of the BBC, are recordings (http://www.bbc.co.uk/voices/recordings/) of all the different United Kingdom accents.

Manny
08-18-2008, 11:30 PM
Basically no.
Now French women.......

I prefer a Russian accent on a woman personally. You may very think I am biased; I couldnt possibly comment. :tongue

Shara
08-19-2008, 02:06 AM
I'd love to know what a Mancunian (where is that?) or Birmingham accent sounds like!


Sorry, for those non-Brits amongst us...

Mancunian = from Manchester!

Shamisen
08-19-2008, 01:38 PM
Also, don't forget that English soaps are very very different from American soaps. We have no glamour here :) The characters are almost exclusively working-class (with the richer ones usually having made their money by shady dealings). There are a lot of older characters, problems and situations tend towards the 'gritty realism' end of the spectrum (ha!) and most of the characters are fairly ugly. Even the attractive characters are pretty rough.

JimmyB27
08-19-2008, 02:16 PM
Every time he opened his mouth I wanted to punch it closed. After that, repeat the treatment with double portions of ferocity on Daphne Moon from Frasier. Unbelievably, she's English and still can't do the accent.
I would cut her some slack. Have you seen Helen Baxendale in Friends? In Cold Feet, she had a perfectly fine sounding accent, but somehow, in Friends, it sounded put on and fake. I'm not sure if it's just because of the contrast with all the American accents, or if they were asked to ham it up, but I think Brits in US shows often sound bad, even if they aren't.

Shamisen
08-19-2008, 02:22 PM
I think a lot of it is to do with how an accent contrasts with the majority. I am perfectly comfortable with American accents, having watched so many American tv programmes, yet whenever I speak to a real-life American around fellow Brits then their accents really stand-out and sound fake. I suspect it's the same thing.

bylinebree
08-19-2008, 09:34 PM
*long and exasperated sigh*

That book is so goofy! Not everyone from the South talks like that! It really amazes me that people get these stereotypes in their heads and then that's all they see.

Kristy, I meant no offense whatsoever! My father-in-law really DID talk that way, yet I lived in TX for a long while and met people born & bred there who barely had an accent. The other side of my hubby's family talks like the very genteel, soft Southerner - a bit Jimmy Carter-Georgia where they barely move their lips when they talk.

bylinebree
08-19-2008, 09:39 PM
Here, courtesy of the BBC, are recordings (http://www.bbc.co.uk/voices/recordings/) of all the different United Kingdom accents.

I can't wait to listen to this, thanks!

And thanks to Shara for educating me on Mancunian :hi:

Captshady: "Nothing but a flesh wound?" Is it posh, I wonder, or brummy?

And, what is it with English men and French women...or any man and French women? The accent? The sex? The food, wine, culture they exude? :Shrug:

angeliz2k
08-19-2008, 11:15 PM
I'm sad to say I've missed Ms Lohan's oeuvre in its entirety.

But the best English accent by an American was Renee Zellweger, and that's a fact. I can't judge whether Hugh Laurie on House does a convincing American, but every time I hear him I think of the American ass (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=N8qw3oWvDpo) sketch.

Well, just like there's no single "British" or even "English" accent (trust me, I've noticed, but I still couldn't pick one from the other and give them a name), there's certainly way more than one American accent. There are probably at least a half dozen Southern accents alone: a Georgian will speak far differently from a Texan, and there's the Southern belle type accent and the Southern gentleman type accent which are a far far cry from the hillbilly accent, which is again something different from the almost incomprehensible Appalachian accent . . .

Oh, and I totally turn into a giggly mess at the sound of any British accent. *Guilty*

Ganymede
08-20-2008, 12:11 AM
There are probably at least a half dozen Southern accents alone: a Georgian will speak far differently from a Texan, and there's the Southern belle type accent and the Southern gentleman type accent which are a far far cry from the hillbilly accent, which is again something different from the almost incomprehensible Appalachian accent . . .

In the Southern US there are probably a dozen dialects, and hundreds of accents.

angeliz2k
08-20-2008, 05:32 PM
In the Southern US there are probably a dozen dialects, and hundreds of accents.

Sure! I'm not a language expert or anything, so I don't know the exact technical difference between the two. There are a ton of different Southern accents, though.


I was thinking about it last night, and there is an accent sepcific to the county of Maryland where I was born and grew up. (There is a specific Baltimore accent, too, just listen to Michael Phelps.) I was on a train once from DC back home, and I heard a group of people talking. I swivelled my head because I KNEW they were from my county, and they were; they got off the stop before me that was still in my county.

Priene
08-20-2008, 05:49 PM
Some of my great-grandparents came from the mining villages in County Durham. Apparently you could tell someone's village from their accent.

Shamisen
08-20-2008, 11:53 PM
Hell, I'm and English woman and even I wouldn't say no to a French woman. Just lowering the tone...

Shara
08-21-2008, 01:22 AM
I have to say on the subject of accents: I delight in confusing people

I have lived 10 years of my life in Lancashire, 8 years in Ontario, 20 years in Surrey. I seem to have picked up a little bit of everything along the way.

I've had people think I sound Irish. Or Jamaican.

Most people on meeting me say: "I'm trying to work out where you're from. All I can tell is you're not from these parts..." hehehe.

Shara

Manny
08-21-2008, 02:31 AM
Ooh - I love a Lancashire lass! ;)

Priene
08-21-2008, 10:13 AM
Ooh - I love a Lancashire lass! ;)

http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/en/3/31/Enasharples3.jpg

Ena Sharples (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ena_Sharples)

Troo
08-22-2008, 02:47 PM
I have lived 10 years of my life in Lancashire, 8 years in Ontario, 20 years in Surrey.

'Ey up. How the devil are you, eh?

*runs and hides*

mab
08-26-2008, 01:02 PM
As has already been said, Americans doing Brits should do the research, and vice versa. Too many American films with scenes set in Britain have the annoying stereotypes - there's always a red double decker bus going past Big Ben or Buckingham Palace, a quiet country road (usually right after the scene with the double decker bus, which is amusing in itself - you have to be a long way from London to find quiet country roads) and an eccentric upper class lady in tweed and wellington boots.



Very well observed- I watched 'The Wedding Date' the other night and it included every one of the cliches you mentioned (except for the tweedy lady). Its almost like it was observed from other films rather than reality. I'm definitely not going to write about another country without major research and time spent there.

Deccydiva
08-26-2008, 02:30 PM
I've been in Ireland nearly four years and been accused of being English, Cockney and a Dub (Dubliner).
My mother was from Worcester and spent her teenage years/early twenties in Blackpool, my father was a Mancunian who spoke like an educated Londoner. Mine is mostly Worcester with overtones of Manchester. Because I use the short "a" sound, southerners think I am a northerner and a girl I worked with suggested I went to elocution lessons! :Ssh:
I dislike being called English by the Irish, who call anyone in the UK English apart from those in Northern Ireland. I have Welsh and Scottish ancestors so I'm a bit of a mixture.
I really dislike people from outside Britain who think we all speak like the Queen and London businessmen go round in bowler hats. And yes, the red buses and Big Ben. :Soapbox: not forgetting "English Tea" which pops up in songs and novels too. Tea is not grown in England - or anywhere else in the UK - it's too xxxxx cold and wet to grow it!

Priene
08-26-2008, 02:34 PM
Tea is not grown in England - or anywhere else in the UK - it's too xxxxx cold and wet to grow it!

That's what you think (http://www.tregothnan.co.uk/tea-garden/p_302/).

mab
08-26-2008, 02:44 PM
I always thought 'english tea' meant' 'english style', ie with milk (some countries prefer it with lemon or something and find us quite odd). Come to think of it, as much as I hate milk normally I couldn't drink tea without it. (except peppermint tea)

Troo
08-27-2008, 07:45 PM
Nah. English Tea refers to black tea (although asian countries call it "red tea" or "crimson tea". Confusingly, "red tea" is what the West calls Roobios...), as opposed to green, white, or oolong teas.

upsidedowngrl
08-27-2008, 11:12 PM
Many do refer to themselves as English. My boyfriends father is from England, not sure what part though. I've never heard him or anyone in their family refer to themselves as British.

Evaine
08-28-2008, 12:20 AM
There is a brand of tea called Yorkshire Tea, and the picture on the packet is of an Indian woman in a sari, picking tea. This obviously refers to the fabled tea plantations of the North York Moors - and is the reason that all those Indian people moved to Bradford....

SLThomas
08-28-2008, 03:33 PM
Great thread!

I do notice the upsurge in St-George flags (wait...that's the red cross on white, right?), one of my neighbour has one on his garage.

When I speak English I have the worst French-Canadian accent imaginable. It's embarassing, actually. Chalk it to lack of practice...I love German accents and when an English-Canadian speaks French...Ooh lala!

Troo
08-28-2008, 04:32 PM
There is a brand of tea called Yorkshire Tea, and the picture on the packet is of an Indian woman in a sari, picking tea. This obviously refers to the fabled tea plantations of the North York Moors - and is the reason that all those Indian people moved to Bradford....

:roll:

Ah yes, Yorkshire Tea. Available in hard water and soft water varieties... :flag:

bylinebree
08-28-2008, 07:34 PM
Nah. English Tea refers to black tea (although asian countries call it "red tea" or "crimson tea". Confusingly, "red tea" is what the West calls Roobios...), as opposed to green, white, or oolong teas.

I just discovered Roobios with Pear by Tetley. (In bags per our American-style so horrifying to all you UK folks) It is GREAT on a cool morning or evening!

Sorry, but tea with milk is just icky to me. Honey or a dusting of Splenda only, thank you.

Really enjoying this thread and seeing all the nuances, etc, of being Brit-er, English - er, British. Hmm.

mab
08-28-2008, 07:58 PM
Teabags aren't horrifying at all- wonderful things! I think most people in the UK use them most of the time. Splenda is a fairly horrifying addition though.

I would estimate I drink about 30 cups of tea a week, of which 29 will be from teabags- I usually buy PG tips (black tea) or good old Yorkshire Tea. On a Saturday my OH insists we take the time to make a 'proper pot' using leaves, I wouldn't bother for myself- I hate cleaning the pot and tea strainer. He makes me try all different types of tea-leaves- Assam, Earl Grey, Lady Grey, Darjeeling and god knows what else. TBH, all these fancy types just make me feel sick, especially fragrant varieties such as Lady Grey.

In an attempt to be healthier, I've tried fruit and herbal teas as well, never really liked any of them except for peppermint tea which I quite like, especially when I'm not well. I have peasant tastes and can only really be satistisfied by strong black tea with milk, no sweetener or sugar of any kind. Common as muck me, but its what I was brought up on!

Who knew I could blather about tea for so long...I'm more english than I thought. Just don't mention the weather, I'll never shut up.

Troo
08-29-2008, 03:47 PM
Mmm, I don't get on well with fruit / herbal teas at all. I am partial to some Assam or Ceylon, but the more acerbic teas such as Earl Grey I find vile.

I'm also very fond of a few varieties of green and oolong teas, but don't like white teas very much.

There's nothing wrong with tea bags - although I find with most that I have to shake them to get the coating of loose tea dust off the exterior, or one ends up with a cup full of tea-grot when one reaches the bottom.

Priene
08-29-2008, 04:00 PM
I just ate two Morrison's Cheese Twists and an apple turnover.

Now I feel sick, but in a very English way.

pdr
08-29-2008, 06:45 PM
No, no, no! That's the tea dust, not real tea at all. Even the experts at Twinings admit that.

mab
08-29-2008, 06:57 PM
Twinings? They're just jealous of Yorkshire Tea ;)

I just ate a chip butty...I now feel fat, but in a very English way.

Nakhlasmoke
08-29-2008, 07:51 PM
Ah chip butty.

Omg I want one now.

bylinebree
08-30-2008, 12:24 PM
Tea dust? Chip butty?

This is just great, so much fun! (*goes straight to Google*)

Priene
08-30-2008, 01:02 PM
Tea dust? Chip butty?

This is just great, so much fun! (*goes straight to Google*)

Three words: egg custard tart.

Mr Flibble
08-30-2008, 05:16 PM
TBH, all these fancy types just make me feel sick, especially fragrant varieties such as Lady Grey.

I thought it was just me! I have to have proper 'builder's tea'.

And I could just go a chip stottie right now. Or a bacon and egg sarnie. Ack! Hunger!

Nakhlasmoke
08-30-2008, 05:37 PM
I like Tetleys.

But I'm of the strong tea persuasion myself.

Deb Kinnard
08-31-2008, 01:46 AM
if an Englishman were to call a visiting American a "Yankee" and get a snarled, "I'm no Yankee, I'm from Alabama!"

Didn't they do that in the movie YANKS? A sergeant in the US army, I think it was, growled, "Don't call me a Yankee--I'm from Ardmore, Oklahoma!" I loved it to pieces, along with that entire movie. My husband says it's a GP movie for me (Guilty Pleasure). I feel no such guilt.

Albedo
08-31-2008, 05:48 AM
Didn't they do that in the movie YANKS? A sergeant in the US army, I think it was, growled, "Don't call me a Yankee--I'm from Ardmore, Oklahoma!" I loved it to pieces, along with that entire movie. My husband says it's a GP movie for me (Guilty Pleasure). I feel no such guilt.

Haha, I love this. He may not have been a Yankee, but all Americans are 'Yanks' to us.

JimmyB27
09-01-2008, 01:21 PM
Teabags aren't horrifying at all- wonderful things! I think most people in the UK use them most of the time. Splenda is a fairly horrifying addition though.

Leaf tea is far superior, but if one is going to use teabags, then one must do it properly. Too often have I watched, barely hiding the grimace, as someone makes me a cup of tea - sloshing the water in any old how, before drowning it in half a gallon of milk. *shudder*

Earl Grey is my tea of choice, though I will settle for a standard black tea at a pinch. One teabag per cup. Boil the water, but let it come back off the boil before pouring it slowly (very important) directly onto the teabag. Stir, and leave to steep for a minute or two. Stir again, then remove the teabag. A tiny dash of milk, just to take off the bitter edge, and enjoy! :)

Deccydiva
09-01-2008, 02:10 PM
Leaf tea is far superior, but if one is going to use teabags, then one must do it properly. Too often have I watched, barely hiding the grimace, as someone makes me a cup of tea - sloshing the water in any old how, before drowning it in half a gallon of milk. *shudder*

Earl Grey is my tea of choice, though I will settle for a standard black tea at a pinch. One teabag per cup. Boil the water, but let it come back off the boil before pouring it slowly (very important) directly onto the teabag. Stir, and leave to steep for a minute or two. Stir again, then remove the teabag. A tiny dash of milk, just to take off the bitter edge, and enjoy! :)

I'll remember that if you ever head to Longford!
You may have to put up with good old Barry's Tea though ;)

bylinebree
09-04-2008, 06:49 PM
I know this will shock most of you, but I just pop a mug of water into the microwave (is there an English-British term for this appliance as well?)...then let a tea bag soak for a looooong time in the water. I might even remove it before I drink.

At least my water is (usually) purified.
But my tea kettle is sadly underused...

Twinings Black Currant Tea = YUM.

And it's OK - we know that the term "Yank" is from the Wars & is not referring to what part of the U.S. we're from. We understand, after all you're not "from around these parts." :tongueI did inform my deeply-southern in-laws that I am NOT a "Yankee" however, since I was born in CA & lived my life in the West, where there never was a Mason-Dixon line!

*goes to look up 'sarnie' and, uh, the other thing* :)

Mr Flibble
09-04-2008, 06:52 PM
I know this will shock most of you, but I just pop a mug of water into the microwave (is there an English-British term for this appliance as well?)...then let a tea bag soak for a looooong time in the water. I might even remove it before I drink.

HEATHEN!!!! SACRILEGE!!!! STONE THE UNBELIEVER!!!!

*cough*

And we call a microwave a *drum roll*........microwave.

Evaine
09-05-2008, 06:47 PM
My mum lives in a part of the world now where it is impossible to buy a teapot. She considers that civilisation stops at the last place it is possible to buy a teapot (with England at the centre of the map).
She has her favourite tea sent out to her by post.

Troo
09-05-2008, 07:51 PM
I know this will shock most of you, but I just pop a mug of water into the microwave (is there an English-British term for this appliance as well?)...then let a tea bag soak for a looooong time in the water. I might even remove it before I drink.


*twitch*

*twitch*

qwerty
09-05-2008, 08:46 PM
I know this will shock most of you, but I just pop a mug of water into the microwave (is there an English-British term for this appliance as well?)...then let a tea bag soak for a looooong time in the water. I might even remove it before I drink.

But my tea kettle is sadly underused...


*goes to look up 'sarnie' and, uh, the other thing*

My hubby used to bring me a cuppa before going to work at six in the morning. I would wake up about 9 and stick it in the microwave and, yes, actually drink it!

What the devil's a tea kettle? We have a tea pot into which we pour boiling water from a kettle.

A sarnie is a sandwhich. A slightly up-market buttie. (okay, I'm ducking out of the firing line here)

euclid
09-05-2008, 09:35 PM
Renee Zellwegger made a splendid fist of a Brit accent in Briget Jones.

My wife and I saw R Zellwegger as Beatrix Potter in a UK TV drama, just about 2 weeks ago. Great show.

We glanced at each other. She tilted her head to one side, the way she does, and said, "She must be English". I removed my pipe from my mouth, nodded, and said "Yes, she must be, and I thought she was Amercian."

oneblindmouse
09-06-2008, 10:06 PM
I haven't laughed so loudly in a long time! What a refreshing thread!

I'm English (and Spanish) and live in Spain and spend my time explaining that not EVERY single soul in the UK/British Isles is English! Nor do they live in London! And it's the BRITISH Government, not the ENGLISH Government, etc.

Big NO to Earl Grey tea, but thumbs up for workman's tea and chip butties! (And rhubarb and gooseberry crumble!)

rugcat
09-06-2008, 10:13 PM
One word:

Bovril.

oneblindmouse
09-06-2008, 10:21 PM
Another word: Marmite!

Yet another word: YUCK!!!!!!!!!!

Mr Flibble
09-07-2008, 02:05 PM
One word:

Bovril.
Bovril mmmmmmm

and Marmite.

JimmyB27
09-07-2008, 04:48 PM
I haven't laughed so loudly in a long time! What a refreshing thread!

I'm English (and Spanish) and live in Spain and spend my time explaining that not EVERY single soul in the UK/British Isles is English! Nor do they live in London! And it's the BRITISH Government, not the ENGLISH Government, etc.
That's what we let them think, anyway. ;)

Deb Kinnard
09-08-2008, 12:12 AM
I'll take a cup of black tea with milk and sugar and a sausage roll, thanks.

Lately we can get all sorts of lovely UK foods on this side of the pond. PG Tips, Bisto (without which I refuse to make shepherd's pie), lemon curd, Chivers marmalade that isn't as cloyingly sweet as the US kind, and Yorkies.

I'm still waiting for Terry's plain chocolate, but I'm afraid that's a forlorn hope.

pdr
09-08-2008, 12:33 AM
You'll have a long wait if you mean the real Terrys chocolate. They were taken over by a multi-national co. nestles I think, and their chocolate is now the commercial goo. I had a chocolate orange in my Christmas stocking last year and it was disgusting, that beautiful bite of dark Terrys has vanished.

euclid
09-08-2008, 12:36 AM
You'll have a long wait if you mean the real Terrys chocolate. They were taken over by a multi-national co. nestles I think, and their chocolate is now the commercial goo. I had a chocolate orange in my Christmas stocking last year and it was disgusting, that beautiful bite of dark Terrys has vanished.

What misery. Mind you, chocolate is on my verboten list !

ReallyRong
09-08-2008, 02:31 AM
My two pence worth (seeing as we're speaking English English in this thread!) for the people in the US of A. We're actually a bit of a mess to be honest.

1, Re - Britain/UK etc
I live in England and I honestly don't have any idea of the correctness of defining people as coming from England/Britain/UK, other than the earlier geographical boundaries explained earlier. It's not something we do ourselves. We don't have a great sense of being English, British or whatever. We're around 60 million people crammed into an island around the size of Wyoming. The vast majority of us live in England, with Scotland and Wales accounting for around 3 million each (though each has an historic fierce sense of antipathy towards the heathen English). Northern Ireland has a similar population, half of which feel loyalty to the Republic of Ireland by virtue of their Catholicism whilst the other half are tied to England and Scotland by Protestantism. The English don't spend too much time pondering these places, and tend to think of themselves regionally rather than nationally. ie Southerners, Midlanders, Northerners, West Midlands, East Midlands, North East, Mackems, Geordies, North West, Mancunians, Liverpudlians, and so on. Most of these people don't like Londoners. Or Southerners. Essentially, after all these years, we're still actually quite tribal, the same as we were thousands of years ago. And even nowadays, accents can change quite differently across a distance of less than 40 miles, and I would defy any foreigner to understand an accent from Glasgow or Belfast. (I have enough trouble!)

2. Tea
I stand to be corrected, but black tea comes from India and green tea comes from China. The English drink black tea, which is far stronger than green. Most of the tea I've seen in the US is green and weak and doesn't give you that kickstart you need first thing. Having spent time out in Hong Kong, I was told that the Cantonese word for tea is pronounced char (dunno how you spell it - it's Chinese) and this is an old English slang word for tea.

3. Marmite
Is yeast extract and is disgusting. The Aussies have Vegemite, which is similar. In the UK, marmite have been running an advertising campaign of "you either hate it or love it". I'm in the former camp. HTH.

euclid
09-08-2008, 12:23 PM
My two pence worth (seeing as we're speaking English English in this thread!) for the people in the US of A. We're actually a bit of a mess to be honest.

1, Re - Britain/UK etc
Mackems

Who are these? And you forgot Yorkshire and the West Country (Cornwall etc.)


and I would defy any foreigner to understand an accent from Glasgow or Belfast. (I have enough trouble!)

I agree. I'm married to one.


The Aussies have Vegemite

Remember Men at Work's Vegemite Sandwich?

Priene
09-08-2008, 01:42 PM
Mackems


Who are these?

People from Sunderland. Not to be confused with Geordies, who come from Newcastle and Gateshead.

spacejock2
09-08-2008, 02:00 PM
Can't think why the guy corrected you. If he's English, he's also British. I always give my nationality as British, but then, my hubby is of Scots descent, so it covers us both.

It's a bit like when I recognise someone is speaking with either an Australian or New zealand accent but I'm not 100% sure which, I refer to them as Antipodean to be on the safe side - coward that I am.

The two accents are very different. If in doubt, ask them to say 'Fish and Chips', and if it comes out as 'fush and chups' you're talking to a kiwi.

Alternatively, watch all the Lord of the Rings extras with Peter Jackson et al and you'll have the NZ accent down pat.

Cheers
Simon

euclid
09-08-2008, 02:19 PM
The two accents are very different. If in doubt, ask them to say 'Fish and Chips', and if it comes out as 'fush and chups' you're talking to a kiwi.

As opposed to the aussie version which sounds like: 'fush and chups'.

I spoke to a new neighbour recently. He said something. I responded, "Oh, you're from Australia!" And he replied, "No, I'm from London." So you see there's no hope for anyone from the northern hemisphere distinguishing the kiwi accent from the aussie one! I think kiwis say "Yis" iso "Yes" but maybe Aussie's do too.

Shara
09-08-2008, 02:33 PM
I hate to generalise, but I have yet to meet an American who knows how to make a cup of tea! Sadly the same can be said about Canadians (unless they have English roots and have been shown the proper way to make tea).

When I'm in America, it's all so disgusting I don't drink tea at all; I stick to coffee - and I am not a coffee drinker!

And all this talk about chip butties is making me hungry...mmm...thick slices of white bread, chunky chips, lots of ketchup...
(stomach rumbles)

Shara

Troo
09-08-2008, 02:35 PM
Brown sauce in chip butties, thanks.

And a fried egg.

And some black pudding.

JimmyB27
09-08-2008, 03:21 PM
The two accents are very different. If in doubt, ask them to say 'Fish and Chips', and if it comes out as 'fush and chups' you're talking to a kiwi.

Alternatively, watch all the Lord of the Rings extras with Peter Jackson et al and you'll have the NZ accent down pat.

Cheers
Simon
Even better, ask them to say 'Six'.

Priene
09-08-2008, 03:34 PM
I hate to generalise

You've stumbled into the wrong thread, I think.

euclid
09-08-2008, 04:55 PM
You've stumbled into the wrong thread, I think.

Wrong Forum.

http://www.freesmileys.org/smileys/music008.gif (http://www.freesmileys.org)

bylinebree
09-08-2008, 06:41 PM
Oh, I was so tempted to play with the word 'forum' but resisted.

I'm enjoying this...so much for the "English" language!

And both Marmite and Vegemite sound awful, as does my bagged & microwaved TEA to you. So ha.

I'm hungry for a veggie omelet, chased by a Light Mocha from Starbucks.

Do you have Starbucks over there? (meaning you UK folks) And do you hate it mightily?

bylinebree
09-08-2008, 06:46 PM
HEATHEN!!!! SACRILEGE!!!! STONE THE UNBELIEVER!!!!

*cough*

And we call a microwave a *drum roll*........microwave.

I know, we Yanks are so COMMON.

But: Microwave. At last, unity!

Priene
09-08-2008, 07:13 PM
But: Microwave. At last, unity!

The correct verb for microwaving, though, is to nuke.

euclid
09-08-2008, 07:54 PM
Do you have Starbucks over there? (meaning you UK folks) And do you hate it mightily?

Yes, we even have Starbucks in the outbog of Ireland. I hate it. The coffee tastes like ground sandpaper and they give you enough for a fortnight in one cup.

I tried to use the microwave at work, once. I put my mince pie in, and dialled up 30 seconds. Standing in the rain at our assembly point, I asked what I had done wrong. Apparently the dial was in minutes, not seconds. Go figure.

Do you have mince pies (Christmas fare) in USA?

http://www.freesmileys.org/smileys/chores036.gif (http://www.freesmileys.org)

Troo
09-08-2008, 08:21 PM
I do, however, like Starbucks' carrot cake :D

ReallyRong
09-08-2008, 08:31 PM
I must be one of the few people in the Western world who has never used a Starbucks, Costa Coffee or whatever. Mind you, I don't get out much.....

Mr Flibble
09-08-2008, 08:32 PM
I must be one of the few people in the Western world who has never used a Starbucks, Costa Coffee or whatever. Mind you, I don't get out much.....

Me either.

But then coffee makes me heave :)

euclid
09-08-2008, 08:36 PM
I do, however, like Starbucks' carrot cake :D

OOOOO Yes, smeared with Marmite and served on a bed of anchovies.

ReallyRong
09-08-2008, 08:37 PM
The two accents are very different. If in doubt, ask them to say 'Fish and Chips', and if it comes out as 'fush and chups' you're talking to a kiwi.

Alternatively, watch all the Lord of the Rings extras with Peter Jackson et al and you'll have the NZ accent down pat.

Cheers
Simon

I just tried this myself and, in my opinion I sounded Northern Irish. Saying fush and chups, that is.

qwerty
09-08-2008, 08:48 PM
Even better, ask them to say 'Six'.

Gotcha! I instantly know I'm talking to an Aussie when they ask me where the nearest texi rank is.

qwerty
09-08-2008, 08:50 PM
OOOOO Yes, smeared with Marmite and served on a bed of anchovies.

Pass me a bucket - like NOW!

Priene
09-08-2008, 08:55 PM
Ask them how they got on in the Rugby World Cup. If they bawl inconsolably for more than ten minutes, they're a Kiwi.

wyoming_dreams
09-08-2008, 09:14 PM
Do you have mince pies (Christmas fare) in USA?

Having grown up in the northeast, I am very familiar with mince pies. LOVE 'em! In my adulthood, though, I've lived in the northwest, west coast, rocky mtns, and midwest, and they don't know mince pie. And when you offer them this . . . ambrosia, this most wonderful of all foods, ever . . . they act like frightened children.

The whole attitude seriously affects my Christmas.

Soooo. . . I call it "spiced apple pie" and they love it. (But I have no respect for them)

euclid
09-08-2008, 09:22 PM
Gotcha! I instantly know I'm talking to an Aussie when they ask me where the nearest texi rank is.

That sounds like Seeth Efrica to me. ;)

Shakesbear
09-09-2008, 01:39 AM
I have really enjoyed reading this thread. Do all threads end up with a discussion of food?

A bit late maybe, but I think the worst ever accent attempted by an actor was Dick Van Dyke in Mary Poppins. I am a Cockney and cannot believe the total mess he made of the accent.

Film makers also have an appalling sense of British geography! Is it in the Kevin Costner Robin Hood film that he lands at Dover and the next minute he is at Hadrians Wall?

Mr Flibble
09-09-2008, 01:43 AM
A bit late maybe, but I think the worst ever accent attempted by an actor was Dick Van Dyke in Mary Poppins. I am a Cockney and cannot believe the total mess he made of the accent.


Cor Blimey Guv! Yes that was appalling. Poor Tracy Ullman said when she first got to the US she could only get parts where she had to say that. Or occassionally 'Luv a duck!'


Film makers also have an appalling sense of British geography! Is it in the Kevin Costner Robin Hood film that he lands at Dover and the next minute he is at Hadrians Wall?

Lol yup. And as for Braveheart *rolls eyes*

euclid
09-09-2008, 01:55 AM
Cor Blimey Guv! Yes that was appalling. Poor Tracy Ullman said when she first got to the US she could only get parts where she had to say that. Or occassionally 'Luv a duck!'

Lol yup. And as for Braveheart *rolls eyes*

And what about Alexander the Great, starring a hundred actors with Irish accents. Great gas ! :)

rugcat
09-09-2008, 02:25 AM
The two accents are very different. If in doubt, ask them to say 'Fish and Chips', and if it comes out as 'fush and chups' you're talking to a kiwi. Or, just see which one makes you cringe a little. For such great people, kiwi's have a grating accent to American ears.

Mr Flibble
09-09-2008, 02:33 AM
OK that's weird, because the aussies have a more grating accent to the brits. The kiwi accent is more subtle ( to us anyway)

rugcat
09-09-2008, 02:38 AM
I've always hoped someday to overhear a conversation between an African American from rural Mississippi and a rural Scot.

Or maybe between an African American from the inner city and a Glaswegian.

Mr Flibble
09-09-2008, 02:40 AM
or Geordie ( turbo speed) and deep south ( a draaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaawl)

That would be fun :)

ReallyRong
09-09-2008, 02:58 AM
In my youth I spent 8 months doing a Jack Karouac "On The Road" thing, spending 8 months driving around the USA with a pal. We started off in San Francisco and made our way to LA, where most people seemed to think we were Australian. To say we were miffed is an understatement. We started looking for work and ended up in Las Vegas before we found employment. By this point we hadn't spoken to a Brit, nor heard an accent, for at least 4 months. We then picked up on old black and white tv, and found that one of the few UK events that was covered by the US networks was Wimbledon. We strained our ears at one of the commentators and had to admit defeat. We couldn't figure out if he was a Brit or Australian.

Cath
09-09-2008, 04:47 AM
**coughs politely** Just remember this is the Research forum folks, not OP.

Deb Kinnard
09-09-2008, 05:03 AM
Really Rong, that's because you didn't hit Florida. Last month when we vacationed (went on holiday) there, every second person we met was from the UK.

And we do like mince pies here. I don't eat them personally, but 'cause my Pastor likes them, I bake him one every Thanksgiving.

What I lurrve is Branston Pickle. Fortunately nowadays we can get that 'round Chicago.

pdr
09-09-2008, 10:02 AM
Just remember this is the Research forum folks,

And on that topic, I suggest that those who are making rude comments about Kiwi accents check very carefully, the Kiwi accent is a mild vowel flattening compared to the broad constriction of the feesh and cheeps vowel sounds of the Ozzie ocker. I think you were listening to a couple of Australians.

bylinebree
09-09-2008, 05:48 PM
**coughs politely** Just remember this is the Research forum folks, not OP.

Ah, but I started the question! You have no idea how helpful all this is to my research of Brits..English...and Aussies Or Kiwis, if I ever need them!

I'm learning the lingo here. This is great research. If this is more OP, which I've never been on, then consider it a Research Party, perhaps?
(*bows, scrapes to Moderator*)

Priene
09-09-2008, 06:08 PM
So am I on-topic if I mention the great Branston Pickle Fire (http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/england/suffolk/3974043.stm) of '04? There was a mass panic as people started wondering what unpleasantly sweet condiment they were going to put on their Christmas turkey leftovers.

oneblindmouse
09-09-2008, 06:18 PM
Getting back on topic, I must admit the American word 'sidewalk' is more sensible than our UK 'pavement'. But their 'diaper' as opposed to 'nappy' is gross!

bylinebree
09-09-2008, 06:28 PM
:Shrug:'Nappy' sounds more soppy and babyish. I guess it's "cuter" though, is that it? Is that why 'diaper' is gross to you?

euclid
09-09-2008, 06:28 PM
Getting back on topic, I must admit the American word 'sidewalk' is more sensible than our UK 'pavement'. But their 'diaper' as opposed to 'nappy' is gross!

There was a topic?

:ROFL:

euclid
09-09-2008, 06:32 PM
... feesh and cheeps vowel sounds of the Ozzie ocker. I think you were listening to a couple of Australians.

That sounds Mexican to me.

:ROFL:

ReallyRong
09-09-2008, 09:44 PM
So am I on-topic if I mention the great Branston Pickle Fire (http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/england/suffolk/3974043.stm) of '04? There was a mass panic as people started wondering what unpleasantly sweet condiment they were going to put on their Christmas turkey leftovers.

And am I on topic if I mention that whenever my aunt from California comes to England she asks her son and stepson what they'd like her to bring back for them and they always specify Gravy Granules? (And they're not kids - they're 30 odd with families of their own). What's that you say? No? Okay, I'll stop posting on here then!

qwerty
09-09-2008, 10:37 PM
Hang on, what's this sudden topic hype about?

If it's anything to do with differing culture research, may I add that I get Bisto gravy granules sent to me from England because I can't buy the buggers in France. Same goes for Bovril, Marmite, crumpets and jars of mincemeat to make mince pies at Christmas. Hey, it's part of my culture. And I had to order a jar of Tesco mincemeat for my French neighbour who went into a state of rapture when I gave her an English mince pie.

Research-wise, did anyone know the French don't understand jelly as Brit kids know it? Their kids won't eat it, and the concept of putting what Americans call jelly in a sarnie with peanut butter - well, forget it.

I call this thread research, and bring it on is what I say.

Ms Hollands
09-09-2008, 10:46 PM
querty, what are you on about? Most major supermarkets do Marmite, crumpets and at least the red (yuck!) Bisto.

I was in Sainsbury's yesterday, looking for green Bisto, Beanfeast and cookie dough. Alas, they had NONE of those products (it was a small Sainsbury's), so I ended up with a couple of packets of Quorn sausages and some Decker chocky bars in my luggage instead.

The French don't like jelly, but the seem to like trifle. They also aren't very big fans of cheesecake, but man, they LOVE Aussie Hedgehog (known as Refrigerator Cake in the UK and possibly the US??)

Ms Hollands
09-09-2008, 10:47 PM
...oh, I should add that French crumpets, like French sliced bread, aren't quite like crumpets as we know them.

Speaking of crumpets, aren't they known as scones in some parts of the UK, while biscuits are also known as scones in other parts or something??

qwerty
09-09-2008, 11:18 PM
Come on, April - you have a Sainsburys near you? If you can buy Cheddar cheese, I don't want to hear - okay?

My grocery shopping life revolves round what Le Clerc, Geant Casino and Atac have on offer. Oh, and Aldi and Leaderprice are around as well, but with very limited choice.

Jayswords
09-09-2008, 11:29 PM
A crumpet (http://content.answers.com/main/content/wp/en-commons/thumb/a/a4/256px-Buttered_crumpet2.jpg). A (fruit) scone (http://www.ukstudentlife.com/Britain/Food/Cooking/Scone/Scone.jpg).

Ms Hollands
09-09-2008, 11:38 PM
Come on, April - you have a Sainsburys near you? If you can buy Cheddar cheese, I don't want to hear - okay?

My grocery shopping life revolves round what Le Clerc, Geant Casino and Atac have on offer. Oh, and Aldi and Leaderprice are around as well, but with very limited choice.

Nope, I was in Cambridge on the weekend :O)

Carrefour, Champion, Super U and Auchan are normally pretty good for British staples like baked beans and treacle and some stuff you mentioned. I thought Le Clerc was an electrical shop. Ooh - more exploring to do!

Ms Hollands
09-09-2008, 11:38 PM
A crumpet (http://content.answers.com/main/content/wp/en-commons/thumb/a/a4/256px-Buttered_crumpet2.jpg). A (fruit) scone (http://www.ukstudentlife.com/Britain/Food/Cooking/Scone/Scone.jpg).

Yes, that's how I would see them too. But I don't think everyone else would agree with us.

Priene
09-09-2008, 11:51 PM
April, qwerty, I know you're probably homesick and everything, but come on, you're in France. Go to a patisserie or a boulangerie or somewhere. Knock back a bottle of Chardonnay and suck in that gorgeous alpine air.

The fact is that Marmite tastes like something scraped from a tractor engine. Baked beans have the consistency of congealed death. And give Bisto a few more years and it'll evolve into a whole new life-form.

Ms Hollands
09-09-2008, 11:57 PM
:e2cat:

Priene, it's 10pm, which means the shops closed three hours ago. I do, however, have a supply of French chocolate, Aussie Milo, Vegemite and good ol' French long-life milk to keep me going until I can get to the shops tomorrow after a long weekend away.

...I may also do a Bisto experiment on the rancid red-tinned variety I accidentally bought a while back...

Priene
09-09-2008, 11:59 PM
I do, however, have a supply of French chocolate, Aussie Milo, Vegemite and good ol' French long-life milk

Put them in a mixer and make up a smoothie. I can guarantee you won't forget it in a hurry.

Deb Kinnard
09-10-2008, 01:52 AM
Man! Too bad I didn't know about the Branston fire. I'd have cornered the American market for sure. Or tried to.

pdr
09-10-2008, 03:19 AM
that perhaps you are confusing drop scones and pikelets and crumpets, April.

In the North you can have scones cooked on a griddle not in an oven. Often these are called dropped scones - singin' hinnies, griddle cakes and oaties are some of these. But ordinary scones can be baked on a griddle too like the Irish soda scones.

A crumpet is made from a yeast batter which is baked in rings on a griddle and sometimes gets called a pikelet, which is also a batter type drop scone, without yeast and baked without rings.

Re jelly in France? Is that jelly as in crabapple jelly or damson jelly?

What I miss most, and have to make myself, are those delicious pork pies made in Ripon or Pately Bridge in Yorkshire. Their savoury aspic round the meat is scrumptious and I have a hard time making something similar.

ReallyRong
09-10-2008, 03:43 AM
that perhaps you are confusing drop scones and pikelets and crumpets, April.

In the North you can have scones cooked on a griddle not in an oven. Often these are called dropped scones - singin' hinnies, griddle cakes and oaties are some of these. But ordinary scones can be baked on a griddle too like the Irish soda scones.

A crumpet is made from a yeast batter which is baked in rings on a griddle and sometimes gets called a pikelet, which is also a batter type drop scone, without yeast and baked without rings.

I never heard of any of the above. Jeez, sometimes I feel like I'm living in a foreign country.

Re jelly in France? Is that jelly as in crabapple jelly or damson jelly?

What I miss most, and have to make myself, are those delicious pork pies made in Ripon or Pately Bridge in Yorkshire. Their savoury aspic round the meat is scrumptious and I have a hard time making something similar.

I, too, used to have a penchant for pork pies. Then I met a guy that had spent a summer working in a factory that made them. Basically, any parts of a pig that can't be put to use elsewhere end up in the pies. You name it. Ears, brains and God knows what else. I went off them after hearing that news.

qwerty
09-10-2008, 09:42 AM
any parts of a pig that can't be put to use elsewhere end up in the pies.

That's an offal thing to do!

qwerty
09-10-2008, 10:07 AM
Re jelly in France? Is that jelly as in crabapple jelly or damson jelly?


I mean the wobbly stuff made in a mould that you eat out of a dish with icecream. Well, actually, you'd eat it with a spoon, but you know what I mean.

Hey, maybe add that to priene's smoothie.

Troo
09-10-2008, 02:12 PM
All this talk of unavailable foodstuffs has me pining for kare-pan.

http://closetcooking.blogspot.com/2008/03/kare-pan-curry-bread.html

Best eaten fresh from the bakery, while it's still warm from the oven. OM NOM NOM!

pdr
09-13-2008, 02:46 AM
jelly as in gelatin. I thought the French had elaborate moulds for gelatin based desserts.

pdr
09-13-2008, 05:50 AM
biting my tongue over comments like:

Basically, any parts of a pig that can't be put to use elsewhere end up in the pies. You name it. Ears, brains and God knows what else. I went off them after hearing that news.
and
offal

for a while now. They offend my whole food, health food outlook.

Firstly a real Yorkshire pork pie, home made in those butchers, is made from specific pork meat.
and
brains are used for brawn, and the liver and kidneys etc are used in pate or straight as is.
and secondly
I am seriously asking you all to consider that it is better to use every single scrap of an animal or turn vegetarian.

I know a lot of Americans have a bad situation regarding meat as some of the US production methods mean that it's safer not to eat liver, kidneys or brain as they could be infected or heavily polluted.
But
you have to start thinking globally and look at the real food shortages which are only going to get worse. Eat what you have and use up every scrap.

After all you eat offal in the form of hot dogs, that's something you hail as a great American food as are those dreadful fast food chain hamburgers which are not made from pure unadulterated minced beef.

euclid
09-13-2008, 02:06 PM
I'm looking for a list of words that Brits and Americans differ over. So far, I have:

Boot = Trunk
Petrol = Gas
Toilet = Restroom
Pavement = Sidewalk
Traffic lights = Signals
Car = Automobile
Train engine = Locomotive
Carpet = Rug ?


There must be lots more. What do Americans call a wardrobe, for instance?

qwerty
09-13-2008, 02:43 PM
Trousers - pants. (the skimpy bits you wear under your trousers or skirt, Brits call pants)
bum - fanny. (Just place these in reverse anatomical order)
motorway - freeway/highway?
egg plant - zucchini
crisps - chips
squash - not a Brit vegetable, but a soft fruit drink.
nappy - diaper
rubbish - trash

Is a wardrobe called a closet in US?

Euclid, you'll find some more on the British English, American English thread.

qwerty
09-13-2008, 02:50 PM
dinner jacket - tuxedo

This may be helpful http://www.effingpot.com/

Sandi LeFaucheur
09-13-2008, 03:16 PM
qwerty, zucchini is the American word for courgette. Eggplant is aubergine. A rutabaga is a swede.

qwerty
09-13-2008, 03:23 PM
Thanks, Sandi. I stand corrected, not to mention happy to be so.

What an educational site this is. I never heard rutabaga before.

euclid
09-13-2008, 04:28 PM
dinner jacket - tuxedo

This may be helpful http://www.effingpot.com/

Of course there's:

Holiday = Vacation
Aeroplane = airplane
Farm = Ranch (maybe)
Wardrobe = Closet (Yes, yes!)
Sofa, settee = Couch
Pub = Bar
Rubbish = Trash or Garbage
(areoplane) Landing = (airplane) Touchdown
Jelly = Jello
Jam = Jelly

euclid
09-13-2008, 07:04 PM
If the car boot (UK) = the trunk (US), what is
a trunk (UK) (a large piece of luggage big enough for a body) called in USA?

Shamisen
09-14-2008, 12:22 AM
A bloody big suitcase?

qwerty
09-14-2008, 12:42 AM
A bloody big suitcase?

ROFWL

Get a grip. They pass as hand luggage.

So, if a bumper is a fender, what's an offside wing?

Beach Bunny
09-14-2008, 01:01 AM
If the car boot (UK) = the trunk (US), what is
a trunk (UK) (a large piece of luggage big enough for a body) called in USA?
A trunk or a footlocker.

qwerty
09-14-2008, 01:01 AM
Then we've got a car bonnet where Americans have a hood.

Okay, we may wear both on our heads, but I'm trying to imagine filling in a crash insurance claim.

The approaching vehicle swerved, narrowly missing my bonnet with its hood, but brushing its fender against my bumper before impact was made between my boot and the other car's trunk.

Ms Hollands
09-14-2008, 01:38 AM
(meanwhile, in French, bonnet is "capote"...as is car roof and condom.

That could get confusing...

euclid
09-14-2008, 01:43 AM
Then we've got a car bonnet where Americans have a hood.

Okay, we may wear both on our heads, but I'm trying to imagine filling in a crash insurance claim.

The approaching vehicle swerved, narrowly missing my bonnet with its hood, but brushing its fender against my bumper before impact was made between my boot and the other car's trunk.

In my WIP2 I have written:

The [American] professor said, "Look in the trunk."
I took the car keys and opened the boot.

Looks very odd.

bylinebree
09-14-2008, 09:34 AM
HA to the accident report! Also, funny you should mention that about your WIP2, euclid.

The reason I started this thread was because of the male protag in my new romance. He's half-American/half-English, and raised in both countries; so he mixes vocabularies in his mind, but usually speaks properly for whatever country he's in at the moment. I have him doing exactly the kind of thing you quoted.

For ex, in the scene that introduces him, he enters a graduate dorm room of the American university where he's studying and says:
"Hey there, kiddies. What're you gawping at?" (his American mates/buddies are hanging out the window looking down at something)
"Gawping? I'm gawping now? What the hell weird Brit expression is that?" his American friend says.
"I'm English, not British. Furthermore, I'm a Londoner and we're generally despised by most of the English peoples. But there is a difference between the UK and England. Bloody hell, get it right."

I bow and pay homage to this thread with those lines of dialogue, and there's a few more sprinkled in, too. How'd I do?

Gawping = gawking -- New one for the ongoing list.
Another one: boots for your feet = rubbers, whether they are made of it or not?

Keep your mind out of the gutter on that one, please...

qwerty
09-14-2008, 10:36 AM
An English woman's car is damaged in an American parking lot. Rookie policeman comes to the scene.

RP: Can you tell me what happened, ma'am?

EW: I was lifting my bonnet when this man hit my boot.

RP: No, ma'am, I meant what happened to your car.

mab
09-14-2008, 12:51 PM
I bow and pay homage to this thread with those lines of dialogue, and there's a few more sprinkled in, too. How'd I do?

Gawping = gawking -- New one for the ongoing list.
Another one: boots for your feet = rubbers, whether they are made of it or not?

Keep your mind out of the gutter on that one, please...

;) rubbers....either an eraser or a condom in my book I'm afraid!
rubber boots on your feet when its raining are wellies (to me). The Queen wears green ones apparently.

Your mix of US/UK lingo looks OK to me...you probably need to ask someone who has lived in both though. I have an Uncle who moved to the US, he was completely Americanised within a year, there is very little English about him now, in his speech or behaviour. Its strange!

About London- I think 'the region's' hatred of London is kind of understandable- its our government's centre and our financial centre, and all the money/media attention/jobs are concentrated on that small area, despite the fact there are quite large cities throughout the country. In return, Londoners do tend to see themselves as more sophisticated and the rest of us as somewhat provincial and barbaric...especially those of us in the north. In fact, I think the Media concentrates so much on the London area, its hard for them to remember anyone else exists sometimes. London is almost like a little country in itself. The North/South divide is pretty rampant too. We really are islands of seething hatred and competitiveness!

Ms Hollands
09-14-2008, 02:01 PM
I like that dialog, but are Londoners really despised or just held in contempt by non-Londoners (ie, not just Northerners, who hate all Southerners and not just Londoners)? And do Londons actually have a chip on their shoulder about it? I never realised they cared.

Where is your character from in London? I don't know any Londoners who would say 'furthermore' outside of a conference room, nor 'peoples' (but maybe that's his American influence?). His accent, from reading that, sounds like he's from a posh outer-London place such as High Wicombe, rather than from Lahhhndaaan itself.

Typical Londonner words for me: "Alright?" (when greeting someone); "bloody hell" (you've already used it!); "blimey" (not "cor blimey" though).

Also Britain doesn't equal the UK, and the American didn't mention the UK, so I would change the Brit's sentence to: "There's a difference between Britain and England..."


...but there are all tiny points and just my tuppence-worth.

oneblindmouse
09-14-2008, 02:19 PM
(meanwhile, in French, bonnet is "capote"...as is car roof and condom.

That could get confusing...

(meanwhile, in Spanish, "capote" is the large yellow-on-one-side pink-on-the-other cape used in bullfights by both matadors and their helpers, as opposed to the small red cape or "muleta" used only by the matador.

That could get confusing...in addition to probably being off topic!

And I, too, was amazed to learn from an earlier post that the exotic sounding rutabaga was just a boring old swede!

euclid
09-14-2008, 08:04 PM
ROFWL

Get a grip. They pass as hand luggage.

So, if a bumper is a fender, what's an offside wing?

A free kick :ROFL:

ReallyRong
09-15-2008, 12:52 PM
For ex, in the scene that introduces him, he enters a graduate dorm room of the American university where he's studying and says:
"Hey there, kiddies. What're you gawping at?" (his American mates/buddies are hanging out the window looking down at something)
"Gawping? I'm gawping now? What the hell weird Brit expression is that?" his American friend says.
"I'm English, not British. Furthermore, I'm a Londoner and we're generally despised by most of the English peoples. But there is a difference between the UK and England. Bloody hell, get it right."


The best US Analogy I can give for this is that people in the South hate Yankees in the North, and most other Americans find New Yawkers extremely irritating. This is partly jealousy masked as contempt, but neither Yankees in general nor New Yawkers give a monkey's about it. I think that if your character is going to work correctly, then it would be along the lines of one of his new buddies assuming that, because he has an English accent (or is using English words) that he's from London. He could then vent that he is from wherever, not ****ing London, and that he hates Londoners. Something like that.

Tony Brown
09-15-2008, 01:45 PM
Hey there, long time no-on the Forum! But I'm back...hopefully for a while.

Never been to the UK (but would love to go!) And "British men" and the occasional setting there keep creeping into my stories. Like so many Americans, I love many things "British." Or is it "English?" I'm confused.

Which is it, when and why? I met a man at a writer's conference and called him "British" and he smiled patiently at me, and said "I'm English." During the course of our conversation, I never could ascertain why he corrected me.

What the heck do you call yourselves?

Hi
We are British when referred to as a member of the British Isles, i.e. England, Northern Ireland, Scotland and Wales. Something is British when it comes from that region.
We are English when we come from England; Northern Irish when we come from Northen Ireland; Welsh when we come from Wales and Scottish when we come from Scotland.
We are Irish when we come from the Republic of Ireland.
Now please don't ask me about our education system.
Have fun, Tony Brown

JimmyB27
09-15-2008, 03:22 PM
Hi
We are British when referred to as a member of the British Isles, i.e. England, Northern Ireland, Scotland and Wales. Something is British when it comes from that region.
We are English when we come from England; Northern Irish when we come from Northen Ireland; Welsh when we come from Wales and Scottish when we come from Scotland.
We are Irish when we come from the Republic of Ireland.
Now please don't ask me about our education system.
Have fun, Tony Brown
Actually, it's a little more confusing than that.
'The British Isles' refers to England, Scotland, Wales, all of Ireland, and the various other island groups clustered around the place (the Orkneys, Isle of Man, Channel Islands etc).
'Great Britain' refers to England, Scotland and Wales only. The official, full name of the nation is 'The United Kingdom of Great Britain and Northern Ireland'.
'British' generally refers to someone from anywhere in the UK, including Northern Ireland. Although technically correct (since it is part of the British Isles), it would not go down well if you were to call someone from the Republic of Ireland British.
Also, I discovered today, it is apparently possible for someone from Northern Ireland to claim either British or Irish nationality, or even both.

euclid
09-15-2008, 06:03 PM
Hi
We are British when referred to as a member of the British Isles, i.e. England, Northern Ireland, Scotland and Wales. Something is British when it comes from that region.
We are English when we come from England; Northern Irish when we come from Northen Ireland; Welsh when we come from Wales and Scottish when we come from Scotland.
We are Irish when we come from the Republic of Ireland.
Now please don't ask me about our education system.
Have fun, Tony Brown

My wife comes from Northern Ireland. She insists she is 'Irish'. People up there are just as Irish as us 'real' Irish, down here. No, that didn't come out right. What I meant to say was is was: We're all Irish on this Island, but some are more Irish than others. No, that's not right either. We are all equally Irish, but some are more equal than others? With apologies to George Orwell.
;)

Finni
09-16-2008, 09:03 PM
it would not go down well if you were to call someone from the Republic of Ireland British.
.

Thats a fecking understatement if I ever saw one, lol

rofl

my blood is boiling just seeing people associate Ireland with England and "British"...I can't imagine what would happen if someone called me British...

hahahahahahaha

:e2fight:



[still lmao]

Deb Kinnard
09-17-2008, 04:55 AM
Some more words:
Lift (UK) = elevator (US)
Dustbin (UK) = trashcan (US)
Banger (UK) = breakfast sausage (US)
Layby (on a motorway, UK) = rest area (on an interstate, US)
Flyover (UK) = overpass (US)
Verge (UK) = shoulder (of road, US)
Roundabout (UK) = traffic circle (US)
Jumper (UK) = sweater (US)
Pinafore (UK) = jumper (US)
Ice lolly (UK) = popsicle (US)
Petrol (UK) = gas (US)

That's about all I can think of right now but should provoke more.

bylinebree
09-17-2008, 08:30 AM
I like that dialog, but are Londoners really despised or just held in contempt by non-Londoners (ie, not just Northerners, who hate all Southerners and not just Londoners)? And do Londons actually have a chip on their shoulder about it? I never realised they cared.

It's tongue in cheek - he's of the upper crust but is making fun of it.


Where is your character from in London? I don't know any Londoners who would say 'furthermore' outside of a conference room, nor 'peoples' (but maybe that's his American influence?). His accent, from reading that, sounds like he's from a posh outer-London place such as High Wicombe, rather than from Lahhhndaaan itself. He's a lawyer so perhaps that's where the 'furthermore' came from. So should he just leave it off for casual conversation? And: I have noooo idea where he's from in London - his grandfather was in Parliament until he had a stroke - would that be a practical location for someone who was in govt, living in High Wicombe?


Typical Londonner words for me: "Alright?" (when greeting someone); "bloody hell" (you've already used it!); "blimey" (not "cor blimey" though). Also Britain doesn't equal the UK, and the American didn't mention the UK, so I would change the Brit's sentence to: "There's a difference between Britain and England..." "Like, totally, thanks." I'll change that line to Britain & England, then - you're right.


...but there are all tiny points and just my tuppence-worth.And all very helpful! You rock.

bylinebree
09-17-2008, 08:34 AM
Hi
Now please don't ask me about our education system.
Have fun, Tony Brown

What about your [British] education system? You mean it boggles the mind, quite opposed to its intended purpose?

I just couldn't resist...

:tongue

euclid
09-17-2008, 11:37 AM
Ladybird (UK) = Ladybug (US)
Goose pimples (UK) = Goose bumps (US)

waylander
09-17-2008, 12:59 PM
[quote=bylinebree;2760026]He's a lawyer so perhaps that's where the 'furthermore' came from. So should he just leave it off for casual conversation? And: I have noooo idea where he's from in London - his grandfather was in Parliament until he had a stroke - would that be a practical location for someone who was in govt, living in High Wicombe?
[quote]

His accent may depend far more on where he went to school rather than where he lives in London. If he was privately educated then he would probably have a general 'posh' accent.
His grandfather was an MP, of which party?

Troo
09-17-2008, 01:34 PM
What about your [British] education system? You mean it boggles the mind, quite opposed to its intended purpose?

I just couldn't resist...

:tongue

We have an education system?

I thought we just locked the little buggers up until they were 17 then released them into the wild? :D

Bmwhtly
09-17-2008, 01:44 PM
I hate to generalise


You've stumbled into the wrong thread, I think.I think you've got a point there Priene.

Ms Hollands
09-17-2008, 06:38 PM
It's tongue in cheek - he's of the upper crust but is making fun of it.


Ah, in that case, all good!



He's a lawyer so perhaps that's where the 'furthermore' came from. So should he just leave it off for casual conversation? And: I have noooo idea where he's from in London - his grandfather was in Parliament until he had a stroke - would that be a practical location for someone who was in govt, living in High Wicombe?


Hmmm, I don't know how long it would take to get to central London. It might be too far out for a daily commute, but there is a National Rail station there which would be the fastest way into London. If you choose central London, knowing about the North/South divide might be helpful, even if you don't mention it at all in your novel. Despite the North thinking those South of the river Thames are 'lesser', there *are* some nice, upcoming areas, particularly along the river itself (like Battersea) and of course, placed like Wimbledon. Once out of central London, I don't think the divide exists and there are lots of places further south that are still commutable and very expensive, so would suit a lawyer.

Alternatively, in Central London, maybe somewhere like Islington or Crouch End or Chelsea...? Others will be up on this more than me though.





And all very helpful! You rock.
:O) No problem - glad to help.

Mr Flibble
09-17-2008, 06:44 PM
lots of places further south that are still commutable and very expensive, so would suit a lawyer.

Ahh the stockbroker belt (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/London_commuter_belt) - just north of me in Surrey ( Guildford / Epsom/ Virginia Water / Sunningdale etc and surrounds.) Get a lot of commuters here in North Sussex too - it's only an hour to London Victoria.

Priene
09-17-2008, 07:50 PM
It's forty minutes one-way from High Wycombe to London Euston. That's an easy commute by London standards.

waylander
09-17-2008, 07:52 PM
Ahh the stockbroker belt (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/London_commuter_belt) - just north of me in Surrey ( Guildford / Epsom/ Virginia Water / Sunningdale etc and surrounds.) Get a lot of commuters here in North Sussex too - it's only an hour to London Victoria.

Sunningdale is my local station - it is a really slow train into Waterloo, takes nearly an hour.

petec
09-17-2008, 08:37 PM
http://smileys.on-my-web.com/repository/Flags/flag-41.gif

Abizern
07-29-2009, 02:09 PM
Okay, I'm a little late to the party but here's something that peeps get wrong sometimes.

We have the British Army. The Royal Navy, the Royal Marines and the Royal Air Force.

bylinebree
07-30-2009, 11:00 PM
Hey, thanks! You never know when that tidbit might be needed!

Kurtz
07-31-2009, 01:41 AM
I'm British. I'm not one of those SAXON DOGS. I always thought British was the country, English was an ethnicity.

Interestingly, when the BNP gets all in your face about "black people being in Britain when they have no right to" the following works wonders:

Did you know black people have lived in Britain since before the Angles and Saxons? When the Romans invaded in (IIRC) 43AD part of the invasion force was a legion from the province of Africa. This is modern day Tunisia. The Angles and the Saxons (and the Jutes but everyone forgets about them) didn't come on the scene till about 600AD!

EDIT -When I said this once a skinhead called me a towelheaded cunt (thanks I guess)

Now the flaw in this funny little fact is that (I think) people from the Province of Africa were white, but still. Certainly black slaves would have been brought over.

backslashbaby
07-31-2009, 01:47 AM
A linguistic difference that caught me by surprise:

"I'll see you at half seven."

Ah, to stumble over something the average British or Irish 6 year old knows :D

Me: "Ummm, is that half before or after seven?"

BTW, just throw out a quick 'twenty to one' sometime in revenge ;)

oneblindmouse
07-31-2009, 02:01 AM
How about the top of the hour?

bylinebree
08-02-2009, 11:37 AM
Well now, the top of the hour I've known for years (American!). But never heard of "half seven." Maybe it really means it's 3:30! Heh.

:tongue

Priene
08-02-2009, 01:04 PM
I didn't know Americans don't use half seven and the like. An added complication is that the Germans and (I think) Dutch mean half to the hour, rather than past, when they use the equivalent phrase. That causes endless fun with my German in-laws.

ideagirl
08-19-2009, 11:28 PM
We have an education system?

I thought we just locked the little buggers up until they were 17 then released them into the wild? :D

Ahh, you'll love this article: http://www.thedailymash.co.uk/news/society/primary-schools-to-admit-chickens-200904031683/

Shamisen
08-27-2009, 09:29 PM
Half past seven is the full phrase - we're lazy so miss out the 'past'.

Fascinated that this isn't used world-wide!

Cyia
08-27-2009, 09:39 PM
Half past seven is the full phrase - we're lazy so miss out the 'past'.

Fascinated that this isn't used world-wide!


We say it as "half past" here (Texas). But we also use "A quarter 'til", "twenty to", "Round about", etc.

eyeblink
08-30-2009, 11:08 PM
Another word that changes its meaning when it crosses the Atlantic is "momentarily".

In the UK it means "for a moment" while in the US it's "soon".

So a UK bus stopping momentarily is probably stationary for a fraction of a second. Best of luck trying to board or disembark.

Brought to mind by Quentin Tarantino getting this wrong (in context) in Inglourious Basterds, which I saw this afternoon.

scarletpeaches
08-30-2009, 11:10 PM
We say it as "half past" here (Texas). But we also use "A quarter 'til", "twenty to", "Round about", etc.

I remember being on the phone in front of another AWer once, arranging to go meet a friend and I said, "Okay, I'll see you the back of seven." He laughed and said I sounded so Scottish using that phrase.

(Means 'just after' seven, in case you wondered).

semilargeintestine
08-30-2009, 11:12 PM
Another word that changes its meaning when it crosses the Atlantic is "momentarily".

In the UK it means "for a moment" while in the US it's "soon".

So a UK bus stopping momentarily is probably stationary for a fraction of a second. Best of luck trying to board or disembark.

Brought to mind by Quentin Tarantino getting this wrong (in context) in Inglourious Basterds, which I saw this afternoon.

That was the best documentary I've ever seen.

electric.avenue
09-01-2009, 02:35 AM
I grew up in England, with English parents, but have Scottish and Irish ancestry too, so I tend to refer to myself as British, as that encompasses the English and the Scots at least.

electric.avenue
09-01-2009, 02:48 AM
<snip>

Interestingly, when the BNP gets all in your face about "black people being in Britain when they have no right to" the following works wonders:

Did you know black people have lived in Britain since before the Angles and Saxons? When the Romans invaded in (IIRC) 43AD part of the invasion force was a legion from the province of Africa. This is modern day Tunisia. The Angles and the Saxons (and the Jutes but everyone forgets about them) didn't come on the scene till about 600AD!

EDIT -When I said this once a skinhead called me a towelheaded cunt (thanks I guess)

<snip>



Interesting, thanks for this. Things seem to have got worse in the UK since some of the fash were elected to the European Parliament.

bylinebree
09-02-2009, 08:42 AM
Another word that changes its meaning when it crosses the Atlantic is "momentarily".

In the UK it means "for a moment" while in the US it's "soon".

Well, we (Americans) do say "The bus will be disembarking momentarily, ladies & gentleman." Which does mean "soon."

But we also say "The car stalled momentarily, then lurched down the road."
Which means "for a moment."

So really, we use it both ways. It's kind of confusing, since there is "momentarily" versus "momentary" as well! But I don't hear real-life people using the second one much, at least not over here.

Interesting!

bylinebree
09-02-2009, 08:48 AM
Interesting, thanks for this. Things seem to have got worse in the UK since some of the fash were elected to the European Parliament.

And a "fash" is a...? Fascist? Eh? Help me out here, tho' I didn't intend this thread to get political!

bylinebree
09-20-2009, 05:24 AM
Okay, what do you guys of the British Isles call your father's father? ( just spelled that 'farter' and almost posted it that way, geez)

I called mine 'grandpa.' My southern American hubby called his 'granddad.'

Would it be too weird to have my half-Brit, half-American hero call his "Grand"?

Rose English
09-20-2009, 05:50 AM
I'm English. I would say grandad, grandpa, grandfather are most common.

Aschenbach
09-20-2009, 06:23 AM
Would it be too weird to have my half-Brit, half-American hero call his "Grand"?

Depends which was the stronger influence on his speech, American or British. "Grand" would sound odd to a British ear, but if he constantly heard "Grand" in the home maybe he would continue to use it.

P.S. I think of Grandpa as American, Gramps as American/Australian, Mom, Pop, definitely America, Ma & Pa American.
Mum, Dad, Grandma, Grandad, those are the terms familiar to me as someone from northern England.

Shakesbear
09-20-2009, 11:30 AM
I am from southern England and agree with Aschenbach "Mum, Dad, Grandma, Grandad, those are the terms familiar to me".

Rarri
09-20-2009, 01:18 PM
I'm more used to Grandpa, than Grandad; my English hubby says Grandad, i'm Scottish and say Grandpa, i've noticed the difference throughout our family (IE Scottish/English).

Just 'Grand' on it's own does seem a little strange, but then again, i know some people say Granda (just dropping the last 'd' on Grandad).

Lady Ice
09-20-2009, 03:40 PM
Hey there, long time no-on the Forum! But I'm back...hopefully for a while.

Never been to the UK (but would love to go!) And "British men" and the occasional setting there keep creeping into my stories. Like so many Americans, I love many things "British." Or is it "English?" I'm confused.

Which is it, when and why? I met a man at a writer's conference and called him "British" and he smiled patiently at me, and said "I'm English." During the course of our conversation, I never could ascertain why he corrected me.

What the heck do you call yourselves?

Depends on the person. A lot would call themselves British, probably because they have connections with people in Scotland, Wales, and Northern Ireland.

bylinebree
09-22-2009, 01:16 AM
I've always like 'granddad' and will probably stick to only that, thinking it's enough that he calls his grandmother "Gramm" instead of Nana or such.

Thanks.

Priene
09-22-2009, 07:20 AM
I've always like 'granddad' and will probably stick to only that, thinking it's enough that he calls his grandmother "Gramm" instead of Nana or such.

Thanks.

The only time I've ever heard Gramm or Grammy being used was by Daphne Moon in Frasier, and her accent was a national joke.

eyeblink
09-22-2009, 10:06 AM
"Nan" is often used instead of "Gran" or "Grandma" or (more childish) "Granny", though I'm not sure if "Nan" is a regional usage. I have heard it used quite a few times down here in the south.

A grandfather would be "Granddad" more likely than "Grandpa", though the latter isn't out of the question.

You might refer to grandparents in third person as "Grandma [surname]" or "Granddad [surname]", so as to distinguish your mother's parents from your father's.

You'd be less likely to address them as "Grandmother" and "Grandfather" as that's quite formal - but then again there are people who call their parents Mother and Father rather than Mum and Dad.

"Mater" and "Pater" are upper-class usages for Mother and Father that pretty much died out before World War II. Unless you were being ironic, if you used these it would sound very affected.

girlyswot
09-23-2009, 03:32 PM
Okay, what do you guys of the British Isles call your father's father? ( just spelled that 'farter' and almost posted it that way, geez)

I called mine 'grandpa.' My southern American hubby called his 'granddad.'

Would it be too weird to have my half-Brit, half-American hero call his "Grand"?

You know, I've glanced at this thread several times and thought about saying something and decided not to. But now I really think I must. It terrifies me that you are writing something featuring British characters with this kind of level of research. Seriously. You absolutely need to start thinking about this properly, rather than just asking questions as they occur to you. Your background knowledge about the UK appears to be minimal and your understanding of the linguistic differences equally fragile. It sounds to me as though you are in danger of writing nothing more than a US stereotype of ye quaint Englishe personne.

There is a ton of stuff about the differences between the UK and the US out there on the web. Separated by a common language (http://separatedbyacommonlanguage.blogspot.com) is one of the most nuanced discussions of the linguistic issues, but there are lots of others. More importantly, immerse yourself in British culture - read UK newspapers online, watch BBC America, listen to the BBC radio stations online. Do NOT imagine for one minute that all you have to do is talk about trousers instead of pants.

bylinebree
09-23-2009, 10:39 PM
Just because I've asked that question doesn't mean I'm not doing "proper" research! I've done as much as I'm able, and very much what you've suggested -- and still want to LEARN. It's helpful for me to ask native British speakers...unless everyone here is just faking it? (kidding)

But I tend to doubt my writing since I'm new to this and pretty damn insecure. So I ask q's.

The hero is a HYBRID -- half-American, half-British, raised in both countries. Writing him, I have two voices in my head and try to blend them per his situation -- the Brit speakers I've heard or know, and the Northeasterners I've heard & know(n).

When he's with his grandparents, he's going to be much more Brit (like my southern-born DH is when around his family) I'm about to tackle a detailed chapter, and trying quite hard to get it close to right.

Not even bestselling authors get it right, all the time; I laugh at Maeve Binchy's attempts at "American" speech. And I'm sure someone, somewhere, will find my attempts to do "Brit" laughable.

That doesn't stop me from trying, however!

The last thing I want to do is stereotype -- I despise them. The grandparents are not 'pip-pip cheerio' people, please God.

"Gramm" will be "Nana" - and "Grand" will be "Granddad" from now on. Period. Find/Replace is easy.

Sitka
09-24-2009, 12:34 AM
For some reason English actors can often do a better American-Southern accent than a non-Southern American actor.

Mel Gibson is someone that can "fake" an American accent convincingly; in fact I'm hard pressed to think of a role where he used his (native) Australian accent. (Not sure what accent he uses when slurring antisemitic remarks to cops...!)

Parametric
09-24-2009, 12:42 AM
Skimming another critique forum the other day, I spotted something that jarred me so hard my teeth rattled: the allegedly British English protagonist, while still in his native England, thought of a stranger he'd just met as a British girl.

That ... that ...

It's just so wrong. :cry: