PDA

View Full Version : ex-Gay Disco/Bar in Brooklyn, NY & CSI procedures?



Andreya
08-13-2008, 03:41 PM
I've never been to NY so I do not know if the following is possible:
if a victim (taxi driver) would get found in or near an ex-gay disco/bar (now closed and used as some kind of storehouse), would this be reported by eg NY Times or such, would it be online? (headlines 'Taxi Driver Found Dead in ex-Gay Bar' - or would just a tiny reference with initials and street be given?)

Are there any ex-gay bars/discos in Brooklyn, or is it plausible for them to be? (I did some googling which leads me to believe this could be a possibility-?) Is it possible one would be converted into a storehouse?

If the crime scene was examined by CSI etc., to what extent would it be examined? eg. would just the room where the murder happened be examined, or the whole building? (it's fairly big) or the adjacent building too? (one can get through the window or the roof or the balcony to another building) There are several different 'storehouses' in the building.. (rented/owned by several different people/companies) Would they all be examined, or just the 'open'/non-locked ones? Or just the one where the murder happened?

What about the immediate surroundings of the murder-scene building? how far in perimeter would eg the street and sidewalks & garbage/recycling bins and such be examined?
(the body is found at or near the crime scene, and it's not 100% certain if it was a crime/junkie crime (push) or an accident (unusual fall)... & it's just a no-name taxi driver..)

There is a shoe missing , the murderer might have taken it... or it could be tossed outside... How long & how well would they look for it?
How long would the place be sealed, & to what extent? (just the murder room/immediate store unit, or the whole storehouse or also the surrounding areas?)

Is it possible a blow in the head with a piece of wood could not be discovered by CSI? (eg they would think the wound might have come from a fall - it would be inconclusive?)

Thank you so much if anyone has an answer to any of these!! :)
(or ideas where to look! :))

citymouse
08-13-2008, 04:01 PM
A story as you describe may have a small note that the building was once the venue for a gay bar. If the building is no longer a bar of any sort that angle would not get much play in the media. If gay has no meaning in your
plot then I'd leave it out. It's the old gun on the table thing. If you say it's there you've gotta use it.
If you're going to weave gay into the story via the building you'll have to make it as having recently closed or write back story to give the building some significance to the crime. And hint at further developments.

As for CSI investigatory procedures, I don't know. I don't write crime stories so I don't research them.
C

dirtsider
08-13-2008, 06:08 PM
There's a "Howdunit" series that has a book on Police Procedurals. It can be found either in the reference section of your local bookstore or on Amazon.

Andreya
08-14-2008, 01:58 AM
Thanks!

Yes, it's relevant to the story, otherwise I wouldn't have researched it! :)
I'm guessing it could also be 'ordered' to be supressed in the media, if high enough instances ordered it? (& in that case just the street address & victims initials would be printed-?) How common is for pictures from crime scene or the building where it happened to appear in the news - newspaper/online?

I will look for that book, I'm pretty sure my local libraries or bookstores here probably don't have it...
Thanx for mentioning it - helped me find this site: http://www.crime-scene-investigator.net/ with articles at http://www.crime-scene-investigator.net/csi-articles.html

http://www.crime-scene-investigator.net/searchingandexamining.html (now what *is*a 'major crime scene'? lol Only if someone important died, & it's obvious it's a 'real' crime?)
http://www.crime-scene-investigator.net/evidenc1.html Still not sure approximately when a murder scene is released from police custody - 5 days, a week, ...?

Tsu Dho Nimh
08-14-2008, 02:51 AM
if a victim (taxi driver) would get found in or near an ex-gay disco/bar (now closed and used as some kind of storehouse), would this be reported by eg NY Times or such, would it be online? (headlines 'Taxi Driver Found Dead in ex-Gay Bar' - or would just a tiny reference with initials and street be given?)

It would depend on the fame or infamy of the bar, the neighborhood, and how slow a news day it is. Given a bar that was notorious for something (clientele, riots, whatever) and no competition for space on that day, it could get a medium-sized story including the past history of whatever made the bar famous. Or it could get bumped onto the back page by some celebrity bimbo's lack of underwear ... whatever your plot need.

We have some hotels here that had notorious suicides, murders and guests ... it gets brought out every time something else happens there.


Are there any ex-gay bars/discos in Brooklyn, or is it plausible for them to be? (I did some googling which leads me to believe this could be a possibility-?) Is it possible one would be converted into a storehouse?

Take a warehouse that was converted into a club ... back to a warehouse/storage place when the club folded.


If the crime scene was examined by CSI etc., to what extent would it be examined? eg. would just the room where the murder happened be examined, or the whole building? (it's fairly big) or the adjacent building too? (one can get through the window or the roof or the balcony to another building) There are several different 'storehouses' in the building.. (rented/owned by several different people/companies) Would they all be examined, or just the 'open'/non-locked ones? Or just the one where the murder happened?

Any that were unlocked, at least, in case something - like the missing shoe - was tossed in there or the perp is hiding, or there are multiple victims.

And they call the manager and ask about all the tenants


What about the immediate surroundings of the murder-scene building? how far in perimeter would eg the street and sidewalks & garbage/recycling bins and such be examined?

A couple of blocks,lightly, unless there is a blood trail. With special attention to trash bins and such.


(the body is found at or near the crime scene, and it's not 100% certain if it was a crime/junkie crime (push) or an accident (unusual fall)... & it's just a no-name taxi driver..) There is a shoe missing , the murderer might have taken it... or it could be tossed outside... How long & how well would they look for it?


How long would the place be sealed, & to what extent? (just the murder room/immediate store unit, or the whole storehouse or also the surrounding areas?)

Whole storehouse until the unlocked areas have been examined. They usually do it quickly, but I've been in an small office building where the local cops were investigating, and they taped off everything for awhile until they had all their pictures and evidence.


Is it possible a blow in the head with a piece of wood could not be discovered by CSI? (eg they would think the wound might have come from a fall - it would be inconclusive?)

Blunt instrument trauma usually has a different fracture pattern than a fall, and there are other expected injuries in a fall that don't happen when you get whapped with a basebsllbat.. And to decoy them into thinking it's a fall, there has to be a place you fell from, and a place you hit your head ... it has to obey physics.

AyJay
08-14-2008, 04:50 AM
[quote=Andreya;2648473]I've never been to NY so I do not know if the following is possible:
if a victim (taxi driver) would get found in or near an ex-gay disco/bar (now closed and used as some kind of storehouse), would this be reported by eg NY Times or such, would it be online? (headlines 'Taxi Driver Found Dead in ex-Gay Bar' - or would just a tiny reference with initials and street be given?)

Just don't refer to your bar as an "ex-gay bar." Ex-gay has it's own connotation: gays who are going through Christian conversion to become non-gay. But that would make an interesting story in itself...A bar where spiritually conflicted gay men sneak off to after their religious classes...

BenPanced
08-14-2008, 06:20 AM
I agree with AyJay. If you make it something like "...the gay bar that was closed down last year for connections to drug dealing..." or "...the gay bar that was closed down in connection with prostitution...", you won't have the confusing connotation of "...the bar for people who formerly considered themselves gay..."

citymouse
08-14-2008, 02:49 PM
Prostitution? Drug dealing? Sneaking off? There are a lot of gay people in AW who are not drug dealers/users, prostitutes and who don't sneak off to any place. Have a care please.
If the above first two elements are central to your story then you may want to eliminate the gay connotation since these are not endemic to being gay. As I said before if gay is an element in the story it's legit. If it serves as some kind of oblique smear it's not. Unless of course your story has as a subplot a gay bias.
I still don't know why the abandoned/not-in-use building needs a gay tag. Why not make it an old vinegar processing plant or a flour mill?
C

Andreya
08-15-2008, 01:00 AM
Thanks for the helpful comments, everyone!!

Citymouse & others, if I finish & post the story on the forum will you take a look? I don't want to publish anything offensive to anyone.. There's nothing about prostitution or drugs in the story, I think Ben just wanted to provide sentences for reference...

I'm not a native speaker of English, so it's appreciated if I come up with a language construct that could be misunderstood.

I have absolutely nothing against gay people, in fact I admire them. If I tell you all about the story I'll lose the punchline lol. It *is*essential to the plot in this case, as the story is now... The story itself is a bit silly, as it's a silly genre, & I like silly stories...
Old vinegar processing plant or a flour mill might be boring... /hmm... I might be intrigued into writing an interesting story with either of those!! - another one, though!! :) So thanks for the idea!/
This story absolutely needs a gay bar that was closed in the 70s or so!
I apologize if the idea of it offends you, in that case maybe it's better you don't read it! :)

I like to think myself fairly tolerant & open-minded, but I do like to explore other people's prejudices... Are you afraid this might be an anti-gay story? From my perspective, it's not. (As I said, I may post it on the board & any input would be welcome then.)

Andreya
08-15-2008, 01:22 AM
Tsu Dho Nimh, thank you so much!!

What you write is VERY helpful!!

Did you ever actually live in Brooklyn/New York? :)

Well, I take it police procedures are similar in most places 'over there' anyway!
So I take it every trash bin & such in perimeter of a couple of blocks would be examined? hm.


Whole storehouse until the unlocked areas have been examined. They usually do it quickly, but I've been in an small office building where the local cops were investigating, and they taped off everything for awhile until they had all their pictures and evidence.
So it's usually in a day or two (or less, maybe just a couple of hours-?), but if they couldn't locate or get permission/keys from owners of the locked areas this could take a while?

Did they check your office too, while you were there? (Did they check everything, or just give it a look around & if nothing seemed weird they moved on?)

Would they check for posters & photos on the wall too & take pictures of them, even if they seemed unrelated to the crime, & unaffected by it (& in another room/area or building)? (What about inside cabinets or kitchen cabinets or such? Would they open or deconstruct furniture/paintings/...?)
Would they take those posters & pictures down, & take them with for examination, or not?
(What if one of the people on the photos/posters is the victim, 30 years ago - and another someone influential from the politics or justice system, is there a possibility either of them - or both - would be unrecognized & CSI would just skim by this? or *skim* - after 'higher requests'...?/)

*gosh now I told all my story already* lol - hope it's not too cliche - or too offensive or something?!! :)/

Anyway, 'it's just a short story', I'd still like to get the facts right... as much as possible...

citymouse
08-15-2008, 01:33 AM
Andreya, I'm not offended at all. I'm more interested in your story. Of course I'll look at it either as posted in the forum or you can send it to me and my comments would be private. I rarely comment on another writer's work unless asked and I prefer to do that privately. I will however, follow as you lead.
C




Thanks for the helpful comments, everyone!!

Citymouse & others, if I finish & post the story on the forum will you take a look? I don't want to publish anything offensive to anyone.. There's nothing about prostitution or drugs in the story, I think Ben just wanted to provide sentences for reference...

I'm not a native speaker of English, so it's appreciated if I come up with a language construct that could be misunderstood.

I have absolutely nothing against gay people, in fact I admire them. If I tell you all about the story I'll lose the punchline lol. It *is*essential to the plot in this case, as the story is now... The story itself is a bit silly, as it's a silly genre, & I like silly stories...
Old vinegar processing plant or a flour mill might be boring... /hmm... I might be intrigued into writing an interesting story with either of those!! - another one, though!! :) So thanks for the idea!/
This story absolutely needs a gay bar that was closed in the 70s or so!
I apologize if the idea of it offends you, in that case maybe it's better you don't read it! :)

I like to think myself fairly tolerant & open-minded, but I do like to explore other people's prejudices... Are you afraid this might be an anti-gay story? From my perspective, it's not. (As I said, I may post it on the board & any input would be welcome then.)

IceCreamEmpress
08-15-2008, 02:10 AM
"Body found in former disco" would be the likeliest formulation of that headline--the details of its clientele would be left for the story.

Something like "The body of {person or description} was discovered late last night in the Brooklyn warehouse that formerly housed notorious gay discotheque The Cock Pit. At the height of the 1970s, The Cock Pit was known for its nude go-go boys and cocaine-fueled parties that attracted Manhattan socialites like Andy Warhol and Bianca Jagger. After The Cock Pit closed in 1981, the building returned to its earlier identity as a warehouse, most recently leased by fabric importers Fine Press Designs, Inc."

Something like that. Also, "warehouse" not "storehouse" is the term used in the US when you're talking about large commercial spaces.

Tsu Dho Nimh
08-15-2008, 09:01 PM
Did they check your office too, while you were there? (Did they check everything, or just give it a look around & if nothing seemed weird they moved on?)

There had been multiple break-ins, some vandalism, and an assault early in the morning ...they were looking for an obvious stash of stolen stuff, blood droplets, etc. We were asked to look in our offices and immediately let them know if something was missing or messed with. The building manager had already opened up everything.


Would they check for posters & photos on the wall too & take pictures of them, even if they seemed unrelated to the crime, & unaffected by it (& in another room/area or building)?

The technique, my policeman crime scene photographer buddy tells me, is to take lots of pictures because you only have one chance at a fresh scene ... start at the door and make a multi-shot panorama of the visible stuff, move into the room, take more shots as more stuff becomes visible. Take closeups of stuff. If drawers are open, shoot the contents. If they are closed, open the drawers and shoot the contents. Same with closets.

Whoever the chief investigator is ... or the first cop on the scene ... will tell him if there is any area that might need special attention.

There is software that lets you calculate the size of things if you have a known object, so you toss a ruler or yardstick into the scene. It can also produce a 3-d scene from shots taken at 2 or more angles. Fascinating stuff.

Before digital cameras, he would shoot as many as 10-15 rolls of film (360+ photos) for a murder or other complex scene, and as little as one roll (36) for the simple burglaries. Now, he just uses memory cards.

Andreya
08-21-2008, 12:33 AM
Thanks!! :)

Tsu, you have some COOL buddies!! :)
I'll try to incorporate it all into the short, & keep it for future reference! :)

IceCreamEmpress, I had to giggle at your description! :) I probably won't go into that much detail this time, but will keep it at hand for future reference! :)
OffTopic, Love your nick & your avatar!! :)

/Tsu, love your nick too!! - Took me a few reads to 'figure it out!' lol/

Citymouse, thanks for the offer! :) Currently busy with RL... will try to finish as soon as possible.. /though it may take a while../

May have further questions further down the line, am to sleepy to think.. lol
Thanks once again everyone!! :)