Tropic Thunder

I saw a lengthy trailer for this before Dark Knight. I normally can't stand Ben Stiller (Jack Black is also hit-or-miss for me), but this movie looks hysterical. I adore RDJ, and I think his part in this one is going to be the best thing in the movie (again, just judging by the trailer).

It's not a theater adventure for me (so few movies are nowadays), but definitely something I'll rent when it comes out.

I'm praying it shows up at my local theatre when it's released so that I get to review it. It looks really good.

I have a feeling Robert Downey Jr. is going to turn in one of the great comedic performances in recent memory.

I normally can't stand Jack Black, but he appears to be perfectly cast in this one: an obnoxious slob of a comedian who thinks he's far funnier than he actually is.

I'm sure RDJ is going to be great. Not sure about Jack Black and Ben Stiller (both not my favorite). The premise sounds outlandishly funny, though. I do hope they don't do too much racial stereotyping and if they do, it has a point.

Looks funny. I'm looking forward to this and (first) Pineapple Express.

Did anyone hear about the big controversy concerning Ben Stiller's character?
http://www.patriciaebauer.com/2008/08/01/once-upon-a-time/
They are in some hot water because of the portrayal of an actor playing the part of a cognitively impaired character. They already pulled some of their ads, and Dreamworks has agreed to meet representatives of loads of disability activism groups. Folks affiliated with the movie have stated that the film mocks movies about the disabled, and not the disabled themselves. It's hard to tell before the movie comes out.
I'm guessing the offending scenes will be cut before it's released. IMHO, the Farrelly brothers have always had sensitive yet hilarious depictions of characters with disabilities, whereas this just seems hurtful/not funny.

How do you know it's hurtful/not funny when you havent seen the movie. Seems to me that everyone is protesting something they haven't seen yet. The Last Temptation of Jesus Christ anyone? It's a satire. I'm sure that the farelly brothers make it very clear in the movie that it's a satire.

It's probably along the lines of the movie within a movie in In and Out with Kevin Kline. That war drama that whatshisname won an oscar for. That was hilariously bad. Of course, I'm just guessing because I havent seen Tropic Thunder yet. I hope they don't cut anything and I'm pretty sure that at this stage of the game no cuts will be made.

I realize that this cause is dear to your heart. And I respect that. But people shouldn't make judgments until they've seen a movie. That's like seeing a mentally disabled person and making assumptions about them before you've even met them.

nevada said:

How do you know it's hurtful/not funny when you havent seen the movie. Seems to me that everyone is protesting something they haven't seen yet.

I realize that this cause is dear to your heart. And I respect that. But people shouldn't make judgments until they've seen a movie. That's like seeing a mentally disabled person and making assumptions about them before you've even met them.

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We-ell, I did say that "it's hard to tell before it comes out." I'm not stating categorically that it's an offensive movie. I was just pointing out that groups are making such a stink about it that it will be interesting to see what happens regarding the controversial content. I haven't seen it, and I don't know if it's terribly offensive or not. I just said that it SEEMS offensive. I'm basing that on ads I've seen and quotes from the script that I've read.

But no, I don't think that prejudice against a person because they look a certain way is ANYTHING like prejudice against a movie based on it's trailer.

I hate every movie Ben Stiller's ever done. Jack Black has already jumped the shark.

But this does look like an awfully funny movie.

Based on this, I don't think I am going to see the film, not just because I usually couldn't stand Jack Black or Ben Stiller:

http://www.cnn.com/2008/SHOWBIZ/Movies/08/12/shriver.thunder/index.html

(note these people did see the film -- unlike the protesters of Last Temptation of the Christ. And Tim Shriver isn't some another out-of-touch PC activist. He actually worked with Spielberg and Dreamworks before as a producer.)


Right here on AW, we have a pledge to not use the "R" word because it's hurtful (if you've been around AW for a while, you'd understand the background story of that). Out of respect for Jenna and every person with intellectual disabilities, I think I'm going to abstain from ever seeing this movie.

To those who see it, I am, however, interested in learning what you think.

I did see it and I wrote a review about it. Here's what I wrote about the controversy (this is just my opinion and everyone is allowed to make their own, but you should know that one of my close friends works with the mentally and physically handicapped and so I am pretty sensitive myself to the use of the "R" word - but everything must be seen in context . . . well you'll see my opinion):

A Sidebar on the Controversy

There is a great deal of controversy surrounding this film, and where initially it was thought it was Robert Downey Jr. that was going to get the flak, it turns out that it is the performance of Ben Stiller’s character playing the mentally handicapped “Simple Jack” that is getting the brunt of it.

Knowing his films as I do, I cannot possibly come to the conclusion that there is any intentional offense being made here by Ben Stiller. If anything this “Simple Jack” thing is meant to illustrate some home truths about the Hollywood industry. Robert Downey Jr’s explanation of how you never go “full retard” as an actor in a film if you want to win an Oscar is an uncomfortable but actually pretty astute moment.

Granted they are going for broad laughs with the Simple Jack character, and while often the laughter comes from a place of “I can’t believe they are doing this”, I have a feeling there is a bit of laughing “at” going on as well.

Personally I didn’t find it offensive. But here’s the rub. While the intent and execution were in my mind pretty obviously making fun of “us” and not “them”, I can still understand the frustration. The mentally handicapped rarely appear in films that are not exclusively about them, and when they do they are often treated with this kind of humour. They rarely get the other side of the coin. Just as there is nothing actually offensive about Verne Troyer being the butt of every joke in a Mike Myers movie, it would be a lot more tolerable if there were more movies where the little person wasn’t the centre of a gag.

Nonetheless, while some may find the portrayal of the mentally handicapped in this movie more offensive than others, I don’t think this means we should start boycotting this film, or petitioning the film industry to ban this sort of comedy. To me it isn’t about not making these kinds of jokes, but rather starting to make more movies that cover the spectrum. Let’s petition for that instead.



Maestro - you are free not to see a movie, but again you are making judgments based on the opinions of others. The "Simple Jack" element is but one part of the film, a film which makes fun of everyone to an uncomfortable degree, but truly the brunt of the making fun of is directed squarely at Hollywood. On a personal note, saying you won't see something out of respect for Jenna etc also made me feel a bit uncomfortable as if I, not only going to see this movie but enjoying it, am somehow being disrespectful. I consider myself extremely thoughtful and sensitive. I never use the "R" word in real life, nor many other words (I feel uncomfortable saying "gyped"). . . Well anyway . . . you have my opinion above. Think ill of me if you like.

Let's clarify this: I don't believe in boycotts, and I'm not "boycotting" the film or telling others not to see it. I just don't have any interest anymore and out of respect for some people, I'm abstaining from seeing it. It's just a personal thing.

However, I do think opening up the discussion is healthy. And if people start to petition Hollywood to make more movies with positive image of the intellectually disabled. As you said, Toothpaste, right now the portrayals of intellectual disabilities are one-sided and these people are always the center of a gag or the blunt of the joke -- and the question is, whether this film is adding fuel to the fire or is trying to raise awareness by laughing at ourselves...

It would be great if Ben Stiller, et el. had balanced the film (I assume they aim at making fun of Hollywood) with positive and sensitive portrayals (a lot of people gave Shallow Hal -- another Jack Black movie -- the flak, too but IMHO that film was actually sensitive about "fat people," albeit still plenty of jokes about obesity). That's why I'm interested in hearing what people who have seen the film think.

I don't think this was a film for sensitive portrayals personally. It wasn't for Ben Stiller to balance his film. The movie is meant to be one big mess of offensive, about everyone. But I agree we need more balance in the industry in general.

I still don't see how you can abstain from seeing it when you don't know if it is truly offensive to you or not though. You read one article that had its obvious slant and decide they are right. Fair enough. But then I can tell you that the use of the "R" word in the film is meant to be ridiculous. We aren't meant to agree with the characters using it. It's meant to be over the top. One opinion vs another. Only you can decide.

Of course you are under no obligation to see it, but I find it a bit strange that you were pointing out an article by people boycotting the film and stressing that this was much more valid because they had actually seen it, as opposed to the Last Temptation of Christ stuff. Yet at the same time you are forming an opinion yourself without having seen it!

Again, not that you have to see it of course. I just find it interesting, that's all.

Well put, maestrowork.

Ben Stiller has been crying innocent in the media over the last few weeks over his portrayal of an actor lamenting his role as "Simple Jack." It could be the case that those people involved with the film intended to make a cutting critique of actors who take on over-the-top disabled characters in the hopes of winning an oscar. (side note: who are they parodying? 'forrest gump', 'i am sam', 'rainman'-tom hanks, sean penn, and dustin hoffman gave amazing and moving if not entirely realistic performances in these films. they weren't pathetic oscar bids. ditto for the less-well-known films with disabled characters like 'the other sister' or 'mozart and the whale'. rant completed.)

But the subtle mockery of the entertainment industry is going to be 100% lost in a movie written for teenage boys that relies on dick jokes and fart gags throughout. no one going to see this film is going to think, 'gee, what an incisive, witty critique of actors who play developmentally disabled characters! ben stiller really took the wind out of their sails!' They're going to think, 'haha, don't go full retard, that's so funny, i'm going to have to start saying that!'

I don't think that we should ban the word r*tard from our mass media, just like I don't think that we should ban the word n*gger or any other similar derogatory phrases. BUT i do think that as artists, we (the beautiful and talented flowers of absolute write, as well as the people who create our movies and television) have a duty to use these words in a way that means something about the way that we live. For instance, 'The Ringer' uses the word r*tard in a productive way that teaches something to the viewer. We all know that Huck Finn puts the n-word to use in a way that is meaningful within the context of the novel. 'South Park,' for all of its grotesqueness and mockery of pretty much everyone everywhere, puts both of those words to use in ways that are funny and entertaining and instructive, and they don't shy away from having several strong disabled characters and african-american characters.

But what is the point of using this inflammatory and hurtful language only to get a laugh? Does 'don't go full retard' really enrich the human experience in any way whatsoever? do we learn anything about our own humanity? or are we just learning the acceptability of one more hurtful playground taunt from our movie star heroes?

(I acknowledge that none of these three may be YOUR heros, but loads of people do look up to jack black, Iron Man, and Greg Focker.)

I like to make up my own mind about things, so I guess I'll be seeing this movie. Even if it is offensive I don't think the film should be pulled (per the Tim Shriver statement). This could be the perfect opportunity to get scoiety talking about the portrayal of people with intellectual disabilities, and more importantly, about the general every day treatment of the same.

I really dislike how easily and frequently people call everything they don't like "retarded." And I say this as a person who has sat in a room surrounded by people with intellectual disabilities, who kept asking me why did people hate them so much and what had they ever done to deserve it. How the heck do you answer that question?

Who left the fridge open?

Personally, I don't have to watch it to know I'll find it offensive. I don't find that word funny in any context, period.

*shrug*

If that makes me a narrow-minded hysteric, so be it. I'm still not buying tickets for the movie. Maybe I'll miss out. Strangely, I don't really mind.

P.S. Like Dolores, I don't think the movie should be pulled, though. I'm not into censorship. I just don't want to see this sort of movie at all.

I watched my dad change from smiling, usually laconic but would share things, to crying for no reason, silent much of the time, ignoring things he never did because of a 90% carotid block that damaged his mind and caused several ischemia attacks. He lived for a few days, almost himself again, before he died of an aneurysm.

Losing or lacking your mind to whatever cause is not acceptable fodder for so-called comic relief.

You've obviously made up your minds. Fair enough. And Kitty Pryde, I beg to differ with the 'no one going to see this film is going to think, 'gee, what an incisive, witty critique of actors who play developmentally disabled characters! ben stiller really took the wind out of their sails!' comment. I did. The person I was with did. Most of the audience did. And most of the reviews I have read did too. Also you would know who they were parodying and the point behind it if, you know, you'd seen it.

If anyone wants to know the context of the "full retard" joke, please PM me. You might realise it isn't quite what you think it is.

Very strange judging something you haven't even seen yet. Very strange indeed.

Kitty Pryde said:

(side note: who are they parodying? 'forrest gump', 'i am sam', 'rainman'-tom hanks, sean penn, and dustin hoffman gave amazing and moving if not entirely realistic performances in these films. they weren't pathetic oscar bids...)

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They weren't??? Oh, come on. Are you kidding? Two of these pathetic oscar bids even won!

Clearly you are offended by the joke because you don't get it.

Toothpaste said:

You've obviously made up your minds. Fair enough. And Kitty Pryde, I beg to differ to the "no one" comment. I did. The person I was with did. Most of the audience did. And most of the reviews I have read did too. Also you would know who they were parodying and the point behind it if, you know, you'd seen it.

If anyone wants to know the context of the "full retard" joke, please PM me. You might realise it isn't quite what you think it is.

Very strange judging something you haven't even seen yet. Very strange indeed.

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Not from my perspective. Frankly, I don't find a much that is amusing when it comes to that word. Period.

What's so strange about that?

Joe Unidos said:

They weren't??? Oh, come on. Are you kidding? Two of these pathetic oscar bids even won!

Clearly you are offended by the joke because you don't get it.

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I read the joke. I got it. I still disliked it a lot.

So here's the thing. It's like Stephen King says about the pie in the face routine: It stops being funny when it starts being you.

Cranky said:

I read the joke. I got it. I still disliked it a lot.

So here's the thing. It's like Stephen King says about the pie in the face routine: It stops being funny when it starts being you.

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You actually didn't read the joke. You read the punchline. You are fair not to like this kind of film and the use of the word, not judging you in the least. I was just surprised how many sweeping judgments were being made about a film that none of you had seen yet.

Actually, am I the only one on this thread debating this film who's actually seen it?

Toothpaste said:

You actually didn't read the joke. You read the punchline. You are fair not to like this kind of film and the use of the word, not judging you in the least. I was just surprised how many sweeping judgments were being made about a film that none of you had seen yet.

Actually, am I the only one on this thread debating this film who's actually seen it?

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No, actually, I did read it, or at least the context of the punchline. They were discussing his role in Simple Jack, and how "going the full-r" wouldn't get you an Oscar, IIRC.

So yeah, I did read the joke. Still not funny.

However, your point that you may be the only one who has seen it is a fair one. That said, they lost a potential viewer in my case. Do I think they're going to lose sleep over it? No, not at all.

Cranky said:

I read the joke. I got it. I still disliked it a lot.

So here's the thing. It's like Stephen King says about the pie in the face routine: It stops being funny when it starts being you.

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That's the whole point about the gag. You're not a desperate-for-an-Oscar actor, so the joke isn't on you!