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Shadow_Ferret
08-05-2008, 07:28 PM
I saw this bumper sticker today and I thought, "Well, yeah, I do vote democratic."

In fact, we all vote democratic. Voting itself is a democratic act. Free elections are all part of the democratic process.

I wonder if that bumpersticker would have been more appropriate in a place like North Korea or Iran? Places that don't get to vote at all.

Anyone else see any redundant bumperstickers?

cray
08-05-2008, 07:30 PM
sometimes i see them occassionally

Shadow_Ferret
08-05-2008, 07:31 PM
Maybe I should have worded that last question differently.

Guess I could have added, "...and what did they say?"

Seaclusion
08-05-2008, 07:32 PM
Yeah, I saw one that said

Protect freedom-vote republican

Ha ha. From the people that brought us the Patriot act.

Richard

Shadow_Ferret
08-05-2008, 07:33 PM
Yeah, I saw one that said

Protect freedom-vote republican

Ha ha. From the people that brought us the Patriot act.

Richard
Hmm. Last I checked everyone except for Feingold voted for that.

Cranky
08-05-2008, 07:34 PM
Hmm. Last I checked everyone except for Feingold voted for that.

Now that's voting democratic! *shudders* Everyone got in on the "Act". Okay, enough bad puns.

*shuffles from thread, head down*

James81
08-05-2008, 08:20 PM
I think of bumper stickers of a way for people to wear their thoughts on their car because there's no more room left in their head.

donroc
08-05-2008, 08:22 PM
Neither I nor those I associate among do not do bumper stickers. Each time I see one, my reaction is: "Who gives a "Flying Fickle Finger of Fate?"

Seaclusion
08-05-2008, 08:28 PM
Neither I nor those I associate among do not do bumper stickers. Each time I see one, my reaction is: "Who gives a "Flying Fickle Finger of Fate?"

You are dating yourself knowing what that award is.

richard

poetinahat
08-05-2008, 08:28 PM
"Four-Wheel Drive Touring: A Legitimate Family Recreation"

Makes it sound like a money-laundering front.

"Skateboarding is Not a Crime"

Um, yeah.

SPMiller
08-05-2008, 08:34 PM
I make a completely different objection to that bumper sticker: the USA is a constitutional republic, not a democracy.

Shadow_Ferret
08-05-2008, 08:36 PM
You are dating yourself knowing what that award is.

richard
You bet your sweet bippy.

Captshady
08-05-2008, 08:38 PM
I make a completely different objection to that bumper sticker: the USA is a constitutional republic, not a democracy.


That's what drove me most crazy, seeing Rosie on the view. She would incessantly say, "we live in a democracy!" The hell we do!

"A democracy is nothing more than mob rule, where fifty-one percent of the people may take away the rights of the other forty-nine. " -Thomas Jefferson

Seaclusion
08-05-2008, 08:41 PM
You bet your sweet bippy.

Say goodnight, Dick

Richard

SPMiller
08-05-2008, 08:42 PM
Anyway, to be pedantic, if the sticker had intended to recommend that we vote in a democratic manner--as if we were in a democracy, which we aren't--then it would've used proper adverbial inflection and said, "Vote Democratically".

Or are adverbs now passe?

JoeEkaitis
08-05-2008, 08:45 PM
That's what drove me most crazy, seeing Rosie on the view.The mere knowledge that she's consuming air has the same effect on any sensible person.

Shadow_Ferret
08-05-2008, 08:50 PM
Or are adverbs now passe?
Take a gander at the posts in the writing forums here. Adverbs are eeeee-VIL!

BenPanced
08-05-2008, 09:33 PM
"Skateboarding is Not a Crime"

Um, yeah.
It is when the sign you're skating next to reads NO SKATEBOARDING ON PREMISES.

You bet your sweet bippy.
Look THAT up in your Funk & Wagnalls!

Shadow_Ferret
08-05-2008, 10:15 PM
It is when the sign you're skating next to reads NO SKATEBOARDING ON PREMISES.

Or when you have hundreds of skateboarders all grinding away at public property. I've seen brand new facilities turned to crap in a matter of weeks because of them.

I think there is a law against destruction of public property.

James81
08-05-2008, 10:25 PM
I always get confused.

Are we a Republic or a Democracy?

Shadow_Ferret
08-05-2008, 10:31 PM
Someone above said we're a Constitutational Republic.

When in doubt, recite the Pledge of Allegiance.

Captshady
08-05-2008, 10:33 PM
Someone above said we're a Constitutational Republic.

When in doubt, recite the Pledge of Allegiance.

In Govt 101 in college, it was said that we're a democratic republic.

Shadow_Ferret
08-05-2008, 10:38 PM
Well, wiki (yeah, I know) calls us a constitutional FEDERAL republic.

Interestingly, it also says the DEMOCRATIC republic is a term used by states that want to emphasize that they are democratic when in fact, they are not, like communist nations. So maybe you had a lefty professor teaching that class and it was his idea of humour.

SPMiller
08-05-2008, 10:41 PM
Hmm. I think I like that. We're less of a federation of states than we once were--which, to my mind, is a good thing--but it's still apt enough.

Williebee
08-05-2008, 10:44 PM
Neither I nor those I associate among do not do bumper stickers.

I see your double negative and raise you an unnecessary exclamation point!

!

James81
08-05-2008, 10:48 PM
In Govt 101 in college, it was said that we're a democratic republic.

What the hell, that shit be redundant yo. (lol)

benbradley
08-05-2008, 10:54 PM
That's what drove me most crazy, seeing Rosie on the view. She would incessantly say, "we live in a democracy!" The hell we do!

"A democracy is nothing more than mob rule, where fifty-one percent of the people may take away the rights of the other forty-nine. " -Thomas Jefferson





Anyway, to be pedantic, if the sticker had intended to recommend that we vote in a democratic manner--as if we were in a democracy, which we aren't--then it would've used proper adverbial inflection and said, "Vote Democratically".

Or are adverbs now passe?
I was going to say that I usually vote for representatives rather than issues (because I'm generally given choices between possible representatives), so a bumper sticker that describes what I do might say "Vote representative republically" or something else equally odd-sounding.

I've posted on this "democracy" thing many times myself, and have written about being disturbed by the slippery meaning of this word years ago (http://benbradley.livejournal.com/343.html).

Gravity
08-05-2008, 11:07 PM
You bet your sweet bippy.

"Hello, my dear, would you like a walnetto?" :::SLAP:::

Susie
08-05-2008, 11:32 PM
I recently saw a bumper sticker that read: "I am a working mother." If you're a mother you're working 24/7. That definitely is redundant.

JLCwrites
08-05-2008, 11:50 PM
I recently saw a bumper sticker that read: "I am a working mother." If you're a mother you're working 24/7. That definitely is redundant.
:Clap:

maestrowork
08-05-2008, 11:52 PM
This oxymoron is stupid.

James81
08-06-2008, 12:04 AM
If you're a mother you're working 24/7.

Let's not get ridiculous here.

Captshady
08-06-2008, 12:05 AM
There's loser mothers out there that don't lift a finger.

donroc
08-06-2008, 12:12 AM
I see your double negative and raise you an unnecessary exclamation point!

!

Soooooo ashamed. I was trying for triples.

Albedo
08-06-2008, 02:40 AM
America is a democracy that is a constitutional republic. I don't see the contradiction and don't really understand this objection I see all over the internet. Australia is a democracy that is a constitutional monarchy. Democracy isn't a title, it's a descriptor.

benbradley
08-06-2008, 05:52 AM
...Democracy isn't a title, it's a descriptor.
But what EXACTLY does it describe?

Albedo
08-06-2008, 07:33 AM
OED: A system of government by the whole population, usually through elected representatives.

Albedo
08-06-2008, 07:53 AM
Hey guys, this generally ignorant foreigner is going to go out on a limb and suggest the bumper sticker meant "Vote Democratic [Party]". Maybe I'm just retarded, but doesn't that make more sense than some poorly worded exhortation to exercise your right to vote?

Susie
08-06-2008, 08:17 AM
Let's not get ridiculous here.

Leave it to the men to make motherhood less than what it is!
:)

Susie
08-06-2008, 08:19 AM
:Clap:

Thanks much, Turk. Let's hear it for all mothers who work tirelessly and do it so well! :Clap:

James81
08-06-2008, 09:23 AM
Leave it to the men to make motherhood less than what it is!
:)

Ha ha, I have mountains of respect for mothers.

It's just not a 24/7 job and it's not as hard as a lot of moms like to make it sound. There's hard days and hard moments, but most of the time raising a kid isn't that bad.

*flame suit on* Commence the verbal lashings now! :tongue

Susie
08-06-2008, 10:23 AM
lol James. You're in for it now. :)

Shadow_Ferret
08-06-2008, 06:03 PM
Hey guys, this generally ignorant foreigner is going to go out on a limb and suggest the bumper sticker meant "Vote Democratic [Party]". Maybe I'm just retarded, but doesn't that make more sense than some poorly worded exhortation to exercise your right to vote?

*ponders that a moment*

Hmm.

You know what?

I was being a smartass. Didn't think that needed to be explained.

Albedo
08-06-2008, 06:17 PM
Ah OK. You need to speak more on my level, i.e. less smart and more of an ass. :p

Shadow_Ferret
08-06-2008, 06:50 PM
I get yelled at by the mods when I do it that way.

JLCwrites
08-06-2008, 07:44 PM
Ha ha, I have mountains of respect for mothers.

It's just not a 24/7 job and it's not as hard as a lot of moms like to make it sound. There's hard days and hard moments, but most of the time raising a kid isn't that bad.

*flame suit on* Commence the verbal lashings now! :tongue It is a 24/7 job. That doesn't mean it has to be a difficult job every hour during the day, but being a mom is work. It requires mental, physical, and emotional energy, and although I may sleep at night, I am still 'on call'.

Captshady - There are loosers in EVERY job.

Shadow_Ferret
08-06-2008, 07:51 PM
Ha ha, I have mountains of respect for mothers.

It's just not a 24/7 job and it's not as hard as a lot of moms like to make it sound. There's hard days and hard moments, but most of the time raising a kid isn't that bad.

No, it isn't that bad, but its still a job, it still requires vigilence, responsibilities, hard work, and sacrifice. Especially if you want to raise a decent human being and not just raise an animal.

I just get a little miffed when people seem to think raising children is only a mother's responsibility or that somehow women naturally work harder at it then men.

The stereotype of Ward Cleaver sitting in his study and only interacting with the kids when they break something is just that, a stereotype.

Captshady
08-06-2008, 07:56 PM
It is a 24/7 job. That doesn't mean it has to be a difficult job every hour during the day, but being a mom is work. It requires mental, physical, and emotional energy, and although I may sleep at night, I am still 'on call'.

Captshady - There are loosers in EVERY job.

If you're "on call" 24-7, then you married a loser.

mscelina
08-06-2008, 08:06 PM
I was going to multiquote this, but it's way too many quotes.

Isn't it amazing how complacent men are about motherhood? Wouldn't it have been possible, just for once, for Susie to make a nice comment about mothers and not be dogpiled by men with bitterness issues? Jesus Christ. If you don't have any respect for the women you impregnated--who consequently wised up and left--then at least show respect for your own mothers or the lady who made the comment.

The greatest thing about making an ass of yourself is how easily the asshat fits on your head after you do it. Enjoy your haberdashery, gentlemen.

Good for you, Susie. Good for you Turkey. And especially good for you Ed.

Carry on.

BenPanced
08-06-2008, 08:29 PM
So what does it mean if a mother is not on call for every second of every minute of every day of every week of every month of every year she's raising her children? Somebody should call CPS?

Shadow_Ferret
08-06-2008, 08:33 PM
...not be dogpiled by men with bitterness issues?
I would never dream of dogpiling on Susie. I hope no one thought I was. I brought up a seperate pet peeve that was only marginally related to what Susie had said.

I love Susie. :)

Cranky
08-06-2008, 08:35 PM
I would never dream of dogpiling on Susie. I hope no one thought I was. I brought up a seperate pet peeve that was only marginally related to what Susie had said.

I love Susie. :)

Nope. And I agree, I think dads sometimes get the shaft in terms of respect. That said, (and not saying you are doing this at ALL, SF :)), you can't build up fathers by ripping on moms.

We're both important.

James81
08-06-2008, 08:36 PM
It is a 24/7 job. That doesn't mean it has to be a difficult job every hour during the day, but being a mom is work. It requires mental, physical, and emotional energy, and although I may sleep at night, I am still 'on call'.

Captshady - There are loosers in EVERY job.

Being "on call" 27/7 is different than a "24/7 JOB". There is no "job" to being "on call". It only becomes a job when you answer that call, which is fairly rare when you are sleeping.


No, it isn't that bad, but its still a job, it still requires vigilence, responsibilities, hard work, and sacrifice. Especially if you want to raise a decent human being and not just raise an animal.

I just get a little miffed when people seem to think raising children is only a mother's responsibility or that somehow women naturally work harder at it then men.

The stereotype of Ward Cleaver sitting in his study and only interacting with the kids when they break something is just that, a stereotype.

This is why I hate the saying "being a mother is a 24/7 job", because you never hear the same thing about a father. And for those of us who consider themselves to be decent dads, who get down in the dirt with their kids, and who are ALSO "on call", it's a bit offensive.


I was going to multiquote this, but it's way too many quotes.

Isn't it amazing how complacent men are about motherhood? Wouldn't it have been possible, just for once, for Susie to make a nice comment about mothers and not be dogpiled by men with bitterness issues? Jesus Christ. If you don't have any respect for the women you impregnated--who consequently wised up and left--then at least show respect for your own mothers or the lady who made the comment.

The greatest thing about making an ass of yourself is how easily the asshat fits on your head after you do it. Enjoy your haberdashery, gentlemen.

Good for you, Susie. Good for you Turkey. And especially good for you Ed.

Carry on.

Huh?

James81
08-06-2008, 08:37 PM
I would never dream of dogpiling on Susie. I hope no one thought I was. I brought up a seperate pet peeve that was only marginally related to what Susie had said.

I love Susie. :)

For the record, I also love Susie. She's one of the sweetest posters I've ever seen on a message board. I wasn't dogging her at all. I took issue with what she said, though.

robeiae
08-06-2008, 08:38 PM
America is a democracy that is a constitutional republic. I don't see the contradiction and don't really understand this objection I see all over the internet. Australia is a democracy that is a constitutional monarchy. Democracy isn't a title, it's a descriptor.
No. A democracy is a specific form of government, which we are not.

What we are is a federated representative republic. "Constitutional" republic is a misnomer--all republics have constitutions of some form or another.

Republics and other governments can have democratic processes/functions, however.

Cranky
08-06-2008, 08:39 PM
What Robovowels sez. :D

mscelina
08-06-2008, 08:49 PM
Ditto. If you look at the names of various political parties in our history, they express the purpose of the groups very clearly. Federalists. Republicans. Democrats. Even the Mugwumps.

Not so much the Whigs, though. I'm still confused by them.

But each of those names signify a specific political base.

BenPanced
08-06-2008, 09:42 PM
Ditto. If you look at the names of various political parties in our history, they express the purpose of the groups very clearly. Federalists. Republicans. Democrats. Even the Mugwumps.

Not so much the Whigs, though. I'm still confused by them.

But each of those names signify a specific political base.
I wanna vote for these guys! At least they admit it!

Official Monster Raving Loony Party! (http://www.omrlp.com/)

Birol
08-06-2008, 10:15 PM
Being "on call" 27/7 is different than a "24/7 JOB". There is no "job" to being "on call". It only becomes a job when you answer that call, which is fairly rare when you are sleeping.

When it comes to being a paid professional, if you're paid an hourly rate, you're legally responsible for compensating an individual if they are on-call and you limit where and when they will be, in case there's a call they must answer. There are plenty of professions, including parenthood, where being on-call equates to often losing sleep. There's also a mental level of awareness, an inability to completely drop one's guard, when you're aware that you might be called back onto duty at any moment.



This is why I hate the saying "being a mother is a 24/7 job", because you never hear the same thing about a father. And for those of us who consider themselves to be decent dads, who get down in the dirt with their kids, and who are ALSO "on call", it's a bit offensive.

I think you're hanging out in the wrong conversational places, then. I've often heard that parenting -- regardless of the sex or gender of the parent -- is a 24/7 job.

James81
08-06-2008, 10:20 PM
When it comes to being a paid professional, if you're paid an hourly rate, you're legally responsible for compensating an individual if they are on-call and you limit where and when they will be, in case there's a call they must answer. There are plenty of professions, including parenthood, where being on-call equates to often losing sleep. There's also a mental level of awareness, an inability to completely drop one's guard, when you're aware that you might be called back onto duty at any moment.

Again, we're talking about raising kids here, not being a member of the fire department or a doctor.

Once your child gets up to about 4 or 5 years old, the "losing sleep" part becomes RARE. (of course I'm talking about healthy children here, not sick kids or kids with disorders--THAT is a 24/7 job)

Then again, it IS just my opinion. I've never found parenting to be THAT difficult, nor do I consider it a "job" (on ocassion, but for the most part no). And I've always done my fair share of the "work" involved (changing diapers, feeding, playing with them, etc.).

BenPanced
08-06-2008, 10:28 PM
Again, we're talking about raising kids here, not being a member of the fire department or a doctor.

Once your child gets up to about 4 or 5 years old, the "losing sleep" part becomes RARE. (of course I'm talking about healthy children here, not sick kids or kids with disorders--THAT is a 24/7 job)

Then again, it IS just my opinion. I've never found parenting to be THAT difficult, nor do I consider it a "job" (on ocassion, but for the most part no). And I've always done my fair share of the "work" involved (changing diapers, feeding, playing with them, etc.).
So then you obviously know enough to cut the mothers upthread some slack.

Kitrianna
08-06-2008, 10:43 PM
*glares at James and smacks a trout menacingly against her palm* don't make me hurt you James. Just be a good boy and cut the moms some slack...

Shadow_Ferret
08-06-2008, 10:49 PM
...And I've always done my fair share of the "work" involved (changing diapers, feeding, playing with them, etc.).
I always wonder what someone means when they say "fair share" when it comes to taking care of the kids. Often sounds like after changing the diapers and the kid throws up or something that person would go, "Hey, that's yours. I already did my fair share."

Reminds me of when some guys say, "I'm babysitting the kids."

Susie
08-06-2008, 10:50 PM
I didn't mean to create anything controversial. I just saw that bumper sticker and thought to post it. Fathers are great, for sure, and I should have mentioned them as well. Here's :Cake: Let's all get along, k. :e2grouphu

Shadow_Ferret
08-06-2008, 10:51 PM
I didn't mean to create anything controversial. I just saw that bumper sticker and thought to post it. Fathers are great, for sure, and I should have mentioned them as well. Here's :Cake: Let's all get along, k. :e2grouphu
Don't worry about it, Susie. You were doing the right thing. Everyone else went astray. :)

mscelina
08-06-2008, 10:55 PM
It's not on you, Susie. You made a post about love. Others made posts about something completely opposite.

{{{{{{{{{{{{hugs}}}}}}}}}}}}

And I have to say, Ed, that your pointing out of the paternal stereotype in your original post was not only correct (Ward Cleaver doesn't live here any more) but completely benign. You're a good man...even if you're a squirmy little ferret.

Mharvey
08-06-2008, 10:57 PM
Haha, yeah, the politics thing.

For the love of God, vote for the candidate, not the party. I know folks who'd vote Democratic even if the democratic nominee was a Milky Way wrapper.

As much as I think the Republican party was set back by 50 years by Bush... I really have to say, I think McCain is the man to clean up Bush's mess. Obama has just failed to impress me lately, striking me as the type of inexperienced leader who got us into this mess in the first place.

Fortunately, being from Massachusetts, it's a null issue for me. I need not even vote if I don't want to - no Republican will ever carry this state for a presidential vote. My democratic vote is redundant, my republican vote is wasted. So it's on you states that actually have a representative mass capable of considering more than one option. ;)

Susie
08-06-2008, 10:59 PM
Thanks so much, Shadow. And I love you all, too!

robeiae
08-06-2008, 11:21 PM
*watches with mild interest as thread begins to spiral out of control towards a fiery death...is pleasantly surprised when Susie saves it with a friendly post*

BenPanced
08-06-2008, 11:34 PM
Don't worry about it, Susie. You were doing the right thing. Everyone else went astray. :)
*runs through forum, screaming, with his underwear on his head*

ColoradoGuy
08-06-2008, 11:40 PM
Okay, I will.

Seaclusion
08-06-2008, 11:56 PM
*runs through forum, screaming, with his underwear on his head*

Only Quicky gets to do that.

Richard

benbradley
08-07-2008, 01:58 AM
OED: A system of government by the whole population, usually through elected representatives.
What edition OED is that (what year was it published)? I wonder if an older one might still have the wording I bolded. The "elected representatives" thing points to a republic.

Here's a website (It's On The Internet, It Must Be Correct!;)) that makes a distinction between "pure" democracy and "representative" democracy:
http://www.laughtergenealogy.com/bin/opinion/republic.html

Here's another, definitely using the older/"original" meaning of democracy, though some might say it goes overboard:
http://www.albatrus.org/english/goverment/govenrment/democracy%20versus%20repubblic.htm
(interesting how it uses the word communistic to describe democracy!)

ETA: One more really good link, one of the above sites mentions a Merriam Webster definition, but only ONE of them!
http://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/democracy


<is there an emoticon for "stirring things up?":)>

Hey guys, this generally ignorant foreigner is going to go out on a limb and suggest the bumper sticker meant "Vote Democratic [Party]". Maybe I'm just retarded, but doesn't that make more sense than some poorly worded exhortation to exercise your right to vote?
Yeah, that's surely the "intended" meaning of the creator of the bumper sticker, but then that just points out how democracy is percieved as such a straightforward word and "everyone knows what it means" when in reality it has acquired several distinctions of meaning over the decades, and different people use it with these different meanings, so (knowing all that, it's easy to see where) people end up talking past each other. I see it happen a lot with a lot of words.

I've seen the uses and meanings of several, probably many words change during my lifetime (often faster than the dictionaries keep up). With what little I've studied it, I've found it fascinating. Now that I think about it, I should write something about it.

Ben, "hot, cool, hip and bad."

Birol
08-07-2008, 02:22 AM
<is there an emoticon for "stirring things up?":)>

I use this one: :e2seesaw:

Albedo
08-07-2008, 02:35 AM
No. A democracy is a specific form of government, which we are not.

What we are is a federated representative republic. "Constitutional" republic is a misnomer--all republics have constitutions of some form or another.

Republics and other governments can have democratic processes/functions, however.
Alright, reading BenBradley's links it looks as if 'Democracy' is an American political science term for what I'd call 'direct democracy' (or 'mob rule' for the negative connotations the word seems to have). But I still think the USA is a democracy under the more general meaning of the word, "government by the people (sometimes through elected representatives)". The USA is no less democratic than any other modern 'liberal democracy', and in some cases is far more so, e.g. an elected judiciary. It's not wrong to call it a democracy when one isn't talking in political science terms.


What edition OED is that (what year was it published)? I wonder if an older one might still have the wording I bolded. The "elected representatives" thing points to a republic.

Australian Concise 3rd edn, 1997. Maybe the "Australian" part points to a difference in usage between the Commonwealth and America.


is there an emoticon for "stirring things up?":)

:banana:

BenPanced
08-08-2008, 12:07 AM
Okay, I will.
Do it early. Do it often.

Shadow_Ferret
08-08-2008, 12:19 AM
It's not wrong to call it a democracy when one isn't talking in political science terms.

You can also call a dog, a cat, a ferret, a bird, a fish -- pets. They are all pets. But pets isn't specific enough, is it? So you aren't wrong calling it a democracy, it is in a general sense, but why not use the more specific term? That way you differentiate the dog from the cat from the ferret.

Albedo
08-08-2008, 04:46 AM
You can also call a dog, a cat, a ferret, a bird, a fish -- pets. They are all pets. But pets isn't specific enough, is it? So you aren't wrong calling it a democracy, it is in a general sense, but why not use the more specific term? That way you differentiate the dog from the cat from the ferret.

An alternate analogy: I could drive around with a bumper sticker reading "I [heart] my Canis lupus familiaris", but "I [heart] my dog" fits better.

benbradley
08-08-2008, 05:14 AM
Alright, reading BenBradley's links it looks as if 'Democracy' is an American political science term for what I'd call 'direct democracy' (or 'mob rule' for the negative connotations the word seems to have). But I still think the USA is a democracy under the more general meaning of the word, "government by the people (sometimes through elected representatives)". The USA is no less democratic than any other modern 'liberal democracy', and in some cases is far more so, e.g. an elected judiciary. It's not wrong to call it a democracy when one isn't talking in political science terms.
Well, you never know when a political scientist will step into the conversation - there's all types on AW!

And eriously, that's my very point in the last few paragraphs of my earlier post, that such a word can have different meanings that mislead the casual reader or poster.

Australian Concise 3rd edn, 1997. Maybe the "Australian" part points to a difference in usage between the Commonwealth and America.
The main reason I ask is that I heard where democracy originally meant what you call direct democracy, and it ONLY meant that, and it was highly denigrated by (among others) the founding fathers of the US as "the tyrrany of the majority over the minority" and such, but around WWII the US Government (and I forget which President) started using the term democracy in positive contexts, saying the USA is a democracy, and this new meaning stuck.

I'm unsure of the veracity of that story, but uses and definitions of democracy from before that time could be telling.

:banana:

Silver King
08-08-2008, 06:28 AM
I'm late arriving to this one (as usual). There were some personal slights mentioned earlier that I'd rather we try to avoid in the future. We all know better.

It's worth remembering that a person's comments here, his or her views related to a certain topic, is fair game for discussion. But we shouldn't be led to crossing the "respect" threshold and call members disparaging names.

I don't usually quote myself, but I had a similar discussion recently that might be worth considering during heated moments:

What surprises me is that, as writers, we have the entire arsenal of the English language at our disposal, yet we often use the cheapest and least effective weapons to blast other people. Why not reach for a Samurai sword instead, the sharpest instrument available, and cut the person to shreds without appearing vindictive or abusive or insulting in any way?

But that takes work and imagination, which some folks must be saving for their other writing endeavors.