So Frustrating!!!

MelancholyMan · Aug 4, 2008

Occasionally someone will read one of my manuscripts. Generally the response varies from good to incredible. But I can't even get an agent to respond to a query, much less send me a G.D. rejection. WTF is up with that? It's really starting to piss me off. :Headbang:

-MM

Karen Duvall · Aug 4, 2008

MM, you've probably been asked this a dozen times already, but have you posted your query to query hell? If not, you really should. I promise to take a look and offer my feedback. Not that I'm an expert or anything, but I don't crit much in SYW. I will for you if you want. So will others, I'm sure. We just need to know ahead of time that it's in there.

JAK · Aug 4, 2008

Gotta switch from writer to marketer. Sounds like the writing's solid. Now you've got to hook an eye-weary reader who's seen it all in the publishing biz, which means the query letter, to Karen's point.

SherriC · Aug 4, 2008

MelancholyMan said:
But I can't even get an agent to respond to a query, much less send me a G.D. rejection. WTF is up with that? It's really starting to piss me off.

-MM

That seems strange to me, that you're not getting any responses at all. Maybe I'm wrong here, but I'd think they'd at least send you a form rejection. How many agents have you sent queries to? How long have you been waiting?

nerds · Aug 4, 2008

MM, I subscribe to Kristin Nelson's e-newsletter, and she mentions that August can be a slow agenting time "Because often the key decision makers are away on holiday."

Also many agents themselves take a summer break of a week or so, just like regular people.

Just a thought. But put your query up in SYW, as has been suggested. Often a story is sound but the query isn't. A good query is a tough thing to compose indeed.

dawinsor · Aug 4, 2008

MM, I've been where you are. All I can say is that eventually it got better.

MsJudy · Aug 4, 2008

I hear you. Years ago, I wrote some crappy stuff but I still had agents request fulls. I'm glad those were rejected, of course, because they were crappy. But now I know my writing is better, but so far, no requests. And yes, I've had folks scrub my query in SYW. It is frustrating, isn't it? Just read my book, that's all I'm asking!

Oh, well. Keep going.

MelancholyMan · Aug 4, 2008

Yeah, I had my query well vetted. Just feeling like I fell off the edge of the planet and wondering when I'll hit bott

ink wench · Aug 5, 2008

MelancholyMan said:
Yeah, I had my query well vetted. Just feeling like I fell off the edge of the planet and wondering when I'll hit bott

You might consider letting people take a second swipe at it. I ran mine through QH and it didn't help. So now I'm back for a second round, and I'm getting very different feedback. Kind of frustrating, but I hope it will be helpful.

regdog · Aug 5, 2008

MM-don't know if you are sending your queries by e-mail, but if so too many times no response is a rejection. If your queries are snail mail some can just be a looooooong wait. I received a rejection the other day five months after I sent the query.

Keep your chin up things will get better.

Feidb · Aug 6, 2008

I've queried over a dozen short stories and lets see... four novels since 1994. I've submitted some of those novels over and over again after rewrites, but all I've accumulated is 595 rejections and 5 actual feedback letters. One time, in the late 90s, I got a request for a partial from James Vines, but he ultimately rejected it. The feedback letters were generally nice with good advice, but one was horrible and I wouldn't say that kind of stuff to my worst enemy.

Here is a partial list of my novel rejection rates so far:

The Greenhouse. Horror. +/-200 rejections. Zero feedback. Submitted in 95, 99, 2002, 2008.

Lusitania Gold. Action/Adventure. +/- 120 rejections. Zero feedback. Submitted in 97, 99, 2001, 2003.

Palmdale Gold. Action/Adventure. +/- 250 rejections. 5 feedback letters. Submitted in 2002, 2003, 2004, 2006, and 2008 (1 pending).

Meleena's Adventures - Treasure Of The Umbrunna. Fantasy. +/- 100 rejections. Zero feedback, Submitted in 2007, 2008.

I submitted a dozen short stories between 2002 and 2004 to Cemetary Dance, that all came back unread. I think they just transfered my submission and query to the return envelope and mailed it without even reading the query.

Tough market. The fact is, I've had agents at conferences tell me my query letters were fine, but they were just not interested in the story or genre at that time. Who knows what bothered the ones I didn't meet face to face? I'm sure some of my query letters in the 90's were pretty bad, but I got the response from James Vines with one of those.

Feidb

windyrdg · Aug 6, 2008

If you really want to cry, read Stephanie Meyers story of how she got started. In a nutshell: had a dream, decided to make a book out of it. Sent out queries. Assistant at Writers House requested a full. Agent there took her on. The rest is history. Total elapsed time...6 months from conception to sale. Hell, it takes longer than that to have a baby and they're a lot more fun to make than a book.

Bottom line; Everything's subjective. When I worked in the music business a singer once told me you can go into any honky tonk in Nashville and hear people who way better than anyone on the Grand Ole Opry. Too much supply and not enough demand, I guess.

I feel your pain.

Karen Duvall · Aug 6, 2008

Steph Myers did get a few rejections before finding her agent, but you're right, it did all happen pretty quick for her. Not the norm at all.

But speaking of dreams, check out this "spoof" video by Jackson Pearce about how she used to think publishing worked. LOL!

IHeartWriting · Aug 6, 2008

Karen Duvall said:
But speaking of dreams, check out this "spoof" video by Jackson Pearce about how she used to think publishing worked. LOL!

OMG -- that's hysterical! I just know I'll think of the video every time I hear the song. Thanks for sharing!

Karen Duvall · Aug 6, 2008

IHeart, she's got a few of these Vlogs going on. The one about critiquing is a riot, and so is the one that compares writing a book to making a cake.

MsJudy · Aug 6, 2008

Okay, the editor in shorts is just to die for!

I feel better already!

AyJay · Aug 6, 2008

Melancholy - if you're totally confident in your query package, maybe it's the agents you're hitting? I'm pretty new to querying - started looking for an agent for my young adult fantasy novel about 5 months ago, so far have queried 17 agents and heard back from almost every one of them. No bragging here, I've piled up 14 form letter rejections. One of my optomistic writer friends says that I get responses because my queries are so professionally written. Sometimes I think that it's because whatever assistant or agent reads them responds right away just to get my project out of their office as quickly as possible. Be gone! Be gone with your awful idea for a novel! Anyway, it sucks. Hang in there.

arkady · Aug 7, 2008

Feidb said:
Tough market. The fact is, I've had agents at conferences tell me my query letters were fine, but they were just not interested in the story or genre at that time. Who knows what bothered the ones I didn't meet face to face? I'm sure some of my query letters in the 90's were pretty bad, but I got the response from James Vines with one of those.

Feidb

That is the part that's so hard to deal with. The usual expectation is that if you have a solid manuscript and a good query letter, it's only a matter of time till some agent picks you up. The reality is that it's just as likely that you'll be rejected on the basis of an intangible whim. Yes, it is a tough market.

Karen Duvall · Aug 7, 2008

arkady said:
That is the part that's so hard to deal with. The usual expectation is that if you have a solid manuscript and a good query letter, it's only a matter of time till some agent picks you up. The reality is that it's just as likely that you'll be rejected on the basis of an intangible whim. Yes, it is a tough market.

Timing is so important, but it's an intangible thing. How can anyone know the timing is right for this or that kind of manuscript? But agents are very individual and some have been known to take on an author just for their writing, not necessarily for the book submitted, and that's heartening. It's so special to have an agent on your side; the encouragement and validation a good agent offers is euphoric, and their support as you write the book that will get that coveted publishing contract is priceless. So if you have a compelling voice and style that grabs an agent's interest, the book you submitted to get their attention could be secondary. It happens.

Danthia · Aug 7, 2008

Some agents don't respond, but it's unlikely that everyone you query is going to ignore you. How long are you waiting? Six months for a response is not uncommon, though many get back much quicker. And how many queries did you send out? Are you sending to a variety of agents or only top-end ones? I know the big boys often ignore unsolicited queries.

I sent out eight queries last year, and all but one responded. Some got back to me in a few days, the longest responder took maybe two months. This seems pretty typical with the others writers in my crit group.

Reasons you might not be hearing from folks (and I don't mean to insult you with some newbie reasons here, just covering all the bases):

If e-mail, maybe your spam filter is catching the replies. Or something in your address is preventing them from getting through. (Some folks do a blind CC to themselves to make sure it goes through correctly). Maybe you're not following the agent's guidelines correctly and they're getting deleted. (ie, putting your query as an attachment instead of pasting it in the body of the e-mail). Maybe your sending to older or incorrect addresses. Maybe you're doing mass e-mails and they look like spam.

If mailed, maybe there's a typo on your SASE. Maybe you didn't include a SASE. Stamps keep going up. Perhaps there's insuffienct postage on your SASE. If you use labels, maybe they fell off. If you handwrote the address, maybe the ink smeared.

I'd double check all of your submission materials. Having NO responses defies the odds, so there must be something that's preventing agents from responding. As long as your queries are professionally done and not weird or anything, you should be getting at least a form rejection.

MsJudy · Aug 7, 2008

arkady said:
That is the part that's so hard to deal with. The usual expectation is that if you have a solid manuscript and a good query letter, it's only a matter of time till some agent picks you up. The reality is that it's just as likely that you'll be rejected on the basis of an intangible whim. Yes, it is a tough market.

Yes, you have to sell the IDEA of your story first. Then they look at the writing, and see if you've done it well. But up front, if the idea isn't something that catches their eye, well.... That's my big fear right now. I know I've got a good book. It's been polished with some very good help. But that doesn't mean it's going to sell. So I want to focus on the next project, but there's that lingering voice in my head--is this premise "high concept" enough? Will this be the idea that will sell? or should I move on to another idea?

MelancholyMan · Aug 8, 2008

JudScotKev said:
Yes, you have to sell the IDEA of your story first. Then they look at the writing, and see if you've done it well. But up front, if the idea isn't something that catches their eye, well.... That's my big fear right now.

That is the frustrating part. Writing is probably the most intimate, deeply transcendent expression of culture. It is really the only medium that lets the consumer get inside the head of the creator. And reflected within writing, whether on purpose or not, are the cultural norms of an entire society. And the gatekeepers to this process pass or deny based on personal whim. As I look across the spectrum of agents I do not see America reflected demographically or otherwise, so in what ways is our culture being slowly but irrevocably skewed by the biases of people so disconnected with the actual creative process? Aristotle and other people a lot wiser than me recognized a long time ago that as a culture died, it was reflected not so much in the art, but in the bureaucracy surrounding the creation of art.

I know there's nothing that can be done about this in a capitalist society, and any kind of government mandate declaring this or that kind of book to be published would ultimately be far, far worse, it is just so frustrating!

I don't know why I can't get any interest. I try to target agents who represent my kind of work. I'm very careful about the submission guidelines. I'm fairly certain there isn't some filter out there deleting everything. (If so, it's letting the crap get through just fine.) I'm up to 19 submissions with more planned. I initially got a few responses but virtually nothing since the beginning of the summer. Maybe because it is summer?

It just begins to seem to pointless to put this much work into something and get nowhere with it, while feedback from the end users is pretty darn stellar. Should I throw in the towel and direct my energy into starting just one more slimy defense contracting company? I have friends who did that and are way ahead of crazy-John now. It is certainly no stretch to suggest that the agents are out of touch with the consumers. Look at the U.S. auto industry. I don't even have any time to write because I'm spending what little free time I have researching agents and writing and rewriting queries, and synopses.

It just gets... old.

-MM

maggieuc · Aug 8, 2008

I have to say that 19 submissions doesn't seem like very many to me...I know a lot of people on AW are sending out batches of 25 once a week....Maybe it's just that you haven't queried enough agents.

jkcates · Aug 8, 2008

MelancholyMan said:
That is the frustrating part. Writing is probably the most intimate, deeply transcendent expression of culture. It is really the only medium that lets the consumer get inside the head of the creator. And reflected within writing, whether on purpose or not, are the cultural norms of an entire society. And the gatekeepers to this process pass or deny based on personal whim. As I look across the spectrum of agents I do not see America reflected demographically or otherwise, so in what ways is our culture being slowly but irrevocably skewed by the biases of people so disconnected with the actual creative process? Aristotle and other people a lot wiser than me recognized a long time ago that as a culture died, it was reflected not so much in the art, but in the bureaucracy surrounding the creation of art.

I know there's nothing that can be done about this in a capitalist society, and any kind of government mandate declaring this or that kind of book to be published would ultimately be far, far worse, it is just so frustrating!

I don't know why I can't get any interest. I try to target agents who represent my kind of work. I'm very careful about the submission guidelines. I'm fairly certain there isn't some filter out there deleting everything. (If so, it's letting the crap get through just fine.) I'm up to 19 submissions with more planned. I initially got a few responses but virtually nothing since the beginning of the summer. Maybe because it is summer?

It just begins to seem to pointless to put this much work into something and get nowhere with it, while feedback from the end users is pretty darn stellar. Should I throw in the towel and direct my energy into starting just one more slimy defense contracting company? I have friends who did that and are way ahead of crazy-John now. It is certainly no stretch to suggest that the agents are out of touch with the consumers. Look at the U.S. auto industry. I don't even have any time to write because I'm spending what little free time I have researching agents and writing and rewriting queries, and synopses.

It just gets... old.

-MM

If you are indeed getting good feedback from people, you might consider alternate routes to the agent/publishing house route. There is always self-publishing. I am not terribly familiar with it, but I am sure there are plenty of folks here who are. It sounds like the people that read your work like it, so that might be a good way to go, and then it would just fall to you for promotion/selling your work.

Just a thought

SherriC · Aug 8, 2008

Melancholy, I think it probably is because of summer. My agent tells me not to expect anything to happen over the summer, that publishing practically stops until after Labor Day.

So Frustrating!!!

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