How much does a little feedback cost?

Why don't you post your opening chapter under Share Your Work?

And maybe it’s time to give up on agents and approach publishers directly. Most independents are non-fiction, and most of them you don’t need an agent.

eldragon said:

I guess I'm also a little mad because I have been waiting for a refrigerator repair man ALL DAY LONG!!!!!!!

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Bastard! He's probably a literary agent by night.

It takes longer for them to reply to a full manuscript than to a query. Many other people have said it takes months.

All you can do is start working on the next book and not think about it.

Good luck!

Julie Worth said:

Bastard! He's probably a literary agent by night.

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Stay strong, eldragon.
Maybe make yourself a budget allowance for each month for sending manuscripts & queries. Then you know that expense is coming, and it won't seem so bad when you pay it. It will also help you stay on track with submissions.

I know you don't want 'I share your pain" type of reply.

I know sometimes submitting makes you want to die.

But rest assurd and know you are not alone,

Here...take this ...my old chewed on bone.

From what I read in this forum, we who have yet to break through the magic line of the wonderful world of being published do feel your pain and all the frustration that goes along with it. In two years ask me if I think it was worth it. Right now I'm not sure.

But keep this in mind...you are not alone. We are here for you and do keep our fingers crossed for you and feel free to rant and rave all you want. I'm sure there are others that do and we just don't 'hear' them.

I know this is going to sound insensitive... but I have been there, and I happen to think this is really true and helps me from going insane:

Uncle Jim said: send it out. forget about it. write your next books....

Seriously, I have subs out there for over a year. I don't have the mental energy to chase them down. If they come back an acceptance, great (fortunately it's not available anymore... because... read on...) but most likely if the agent is not scrambling to call me back, it's most probably a rejection anyway.

So I kept writing, and I kept sending it out. And if it's an "exclusive read" I offer a time limit. Just keep sending it out until someone bites. Meanwhile, what is out is out -- it's out of my control, and I don't want to fret over it.

Are you writing your next book? If not, do it. If so, focus on it.

eldragon said:

I'm so frustrated ... It seems like about 30% of those queried are interested. Then, about half ask for manuscripts sent through the mail. GREAT! I take my disc and get a copy or two (depending on what they asked for) and mail it priority flat rate mail - total cost - $20-30. Then, NOTHING> Nothing. Nothing.

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Ah feel yore pain. But look at it this way: after 53 queries, the only non-form-letter response I've gotten has been one (1) request for partial. I've revised and improved my query letter many times, I follow each and every guideline scrupulously, and still nothing but "dear author..."

How I wish I was getting 30% interest!

Hope this rant helps you to keep it in perspective.

Since I decided to stop fretting over my current completed novel, I've typed more than 54,000 words in my WIP. Stop thinking about your book once you submit it to an agent; move on to the next project. It will keep you a tad saner.

CACTUSWENDY said:

In two years ask me if I think it was worth it. Right now I'm not sure.

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I'm not always sure either. The beautiful weather has finally arrived where I am, but I'll be spending most of the weekend inside preparing my second round of queries. I do have moments when I wonder why I'm doing it, but they pass.

Ah feel yore pain. But look at it this way: after 53 queries, the only non-form-letter response I've gotten has been one (1) request for partial. I've revised and improved my query letter many times, I follow each and every guideline scrupulously, and still nothing but "dear author..."

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Could it be something about the story? From day 1, I've known that I'm not likely to sell my story to a large publisher and so probably won't find an agent, but I'm querying agents first so I won't ask myself "should I have..." in 20 years. I've been surprised that a few agents have asked for more. After that, I'll query the large publishers for the same reason before moving on to the smaller presses.

Forgetting about the work once you start submitting it is good advice. I'm working on something else while I shop the first one around.

brinkett said:

Could it be something about the story?

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About the premise itself, you mean? I have no idea. Since rejections never come with commentary, I have no way to know.

Forgetting about the work once you start submitting it is good advice. I'm working on something else while I shop the first one around.

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So am I. But the form rejections on the first one keep rolling in nevertheless. That's why I can sympathize with eldragon, even though I wish I were in his (her?) shoes.

arkady said:

About the premise itself, you mean? I have no idea. Since rejections never come with commentary, I have no way to know.

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Yes, that's what I meant. And it is demoralizing to receive a lot of form rejections since you have no idea what, if anything, needs to be fixed.

So am I. But the form rejections on the first one keep rolling in nevertheless. That's why I can sympathize with eldragon, even though I wish I were in his (her?) shoes.

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I sympathize with anyone who's currently querying--it can be a real grind. But I did a lot of reading before I started so I knew that waiting was par for the course. Some writers have posted that replies are still trickling in over a year after they sent the query, so when I stick those envelopes into the mailbox, I forget about them. Email is a different story. I find that you either get a response fairly quickly (within 72 hours) or not at all. Only once so far have I received a response to an e-query more than a few days after I sent it.

Agets

eldragon said:

I'm so frustrated. I finished my manuscript last summer, and almost immediately signed up with a bogus agent. For 6 months, I basically waited for nothing. Now, I am looking for another agent. It seems like about 30% of those queried are interested. Then, about half ask for manuscripts sent through the mail. GREAT! I take my disc and get a copy or two (depending on what they asked for) and mail it priority flat rate mail - total cost - $20-30. Then, NOTHING> Nothing. Nothing.


Or, I email the agent. Did you get it? "yes, its good, but needs some work. I'll pass it to my editor." Then .......nothing nothing nothing again.



I mean.........what do they want from me? I know what I want from them! A freakin clue about whats wrong with my book!!!!!!!! Does it need more SEX? Is it too good? Horribly written?? Please! I read all the time ......and I can't believe my book is that bad! It's not some bogus novel.....some cheezy story I made up! It's non-fiction - narrative. Everyone I talk to about the book says "Oh, thats interesting. I'd buy that book." BUT - no agent will help me!!!!!!

I'm starting to just get mad. My book has almost 400 double spaced pages to it. I can't keep absorbing the expense of printing it out and mailing it. Should I just burn the thing and shoot myself?

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An agent who has an editor to pass things along to?!?!?! This would terrify me. I'd definitely stay away from that one. That's a run, don't walk case if ever I heard one.

Sadly, agents aren't in the critiquing business, and can't afford to be. And shouldn't be. They're slow enough already. Taking time to provide feedback to more than a tiny fraction of what comes in would slow them down beyond human endurance. To critique something, an agent would have to read it all the way through. This doesn't happen very often. An agent or editor reads only until they find a reason to stop reading, and more often than not, they stop simply because they don't like what they're reading, or just lose interest. They get bored. "I didn't like it" or "I didn't think it was very good," or "I doubt anyone would buy it," or "It bored me," is really all they could say, and it's what they do say with a form rejection slip.

In truth, most of the time an agent would have no clue what to tell you is wrong. It isn't what's wrong an agent looks for, it's what's right. You have to read in a very different manner to see what's wrong. To see what's right all that's necessary is that you enjoy reading from page first to page last.

If only very minor things are wrong, if a novel shows promise, or the writer behind it shows promise, and if you're submitting to good agents or editors, you will get feedback nearly every time. When a book has only minor problems, the agent or editor will read it all the way through, and will pick up on the minor problems in a sort of behind the scenes way.

But neither an agent nor an editor can provide feedback on everything that comes in. It just isn't possible or productive. Not receiving any feedback at all is serious feedback in a very real way.

And, really, if you can't tell yourself what's wrong, you need to find a couple of reliable beta readers who can tell what's wrong before you submit it to an agent or editor. Yours aren't doing a proper job or you would be receiving at least some feedback from agents.

Talking to people about the book doesn't mean anything. Even a fascinating subject can be written in a poor or boring manner. The greatest subject ever thought of can be written about so horribly that no one would read it. Nonfiction can be as bad, or far worse, than any novel. Nonfiction can be God-awful in every possible way. Either the agents you're submitting it to believe the book is bad, your writing is bad, or there's simply no market for the subject matter. Rejections pretty much always come because of these three reasons. If they believe the book is well-written, but that it has no market, they'll usually say so and ask you to try something else.

No agent or editor ever has or ever will reject a book they believe is well-written, and that people will buy.

An agent's job is to sell her clients' work, schmooze with the editors, and all the other things she has to do to for her clients. Then maybe she has some time left to go through queries. Hundreds of them. She might pick one or two to request material. But when they arrive, they go to the pile. She probably has over 20 in the pile...

Just because you send her YOUR ms asap via express mail doesn't mean you are the ONLY thing on her plate. Be realist! She doesn't work for you, and she's not sitting at her desk waiting for reading materials. If you can't understand that, I don't know how you can ever work with an agent if you do get one one day... the world does not revolve around you and your ms. You are just one of the hundreds who query her.

Their time is devoted mostly to their existing clients. Some of them only take on 1 or 2 new clients a year. So good luck demanding their time corresponding to YOU.

And no, agents don't have to tell you what is wrong with your ms. All they are obligated to is a "yay" or "nay." Like James said, they're not in the crit business. They don't owe you anything.

Publishing is a SLOW business. If you can't understand or stand it, I think you might want to consider another career choice.

If perseverance is a MUST for a writer, I think you're failing the test.

(sorry to sound harsh, here. But you're not the only writer who must endure this process. Those who wait tough it out. Those who don't fail. It's really that simple.)

Don't bother trying to get an agent - send it to publishers. When you get an offer, getting an agent will be easy.

Many publishers no longer accept unagented submissions.

Many others do... it's still the path of least resistance.