Puppies...

jennifer75 · Jul 23, 2008

New pack member #2 is still in mamas tummy right now...I figure we'll be bringing her home in about 2 months or so??? How long does one need to wait before a pup can be removed from her mama?

The greatest part is we have no idea who the lucky dad is, so what the pups will look like is a mystery. Mama is a poodle terrier mix...can't wait!!!

I figure New Pack Member #1 will be about 10 months when NPM#2 comes home. Think she'll accept her? Dangerous situation you think???

Robert Toy · Jul 23, 2008

Normally 8 weeks for separation

They start weaning at 3-4 weeks (or mama starts getting annoyed), 6 weeks completely weaned.

jennifer75 · Jul 23, 2008

Oh then we're lookin at maybe 3 months till she comes home.

Should we expect to see or feel the babies in mom's belly when it comes close to delivery time?

Tink · Jul 23, 2008

Yes on both the feeling and the seeing.

PM#1 should do ok with PM#2 if you all don't make too much of a difference in them and cause PM#1 to get jealous.

bonobo_jones · Jul 23, 2008

Puppies are best left with mama and littermates for at least eight weeks...reputable breeders of toy breeds wait ten weeks until letting the pups go. Potty training will be easier, pups learn better bite inhibition and doggie manners from mama and sibs, immune system will be a bit stronger.
NPM 1 is a teenager (depending on breed and size - larger dogs mature slower) but will probably be quite tolerant of the puppy, while emphatically and sharply teaching NPM 2 manners. At least you hope your older pup will be a good, stern puppy raiser, that's the ideal situation.
My current pup - a small terrier/herding mix - was well raised by my two older Rottweilers. They taught her impeccable dog-manners. Although it was noisy at first with all the roaring and yip yip yip OMG they're killing me yip yip... : oh look a leaf:

Puppies are fun for a while, then you can't wait for them to grow up already and get their final brain shipment.

jennifer75 · Jul 23, 2008

Tink said:
Yes on both the feeling and the seeing.

PM#1 should do ok with PM#2 if you all don't make too much of a difference in them and cause PM#1 to get jealous.

PM#1 is a pitbull puppy. I read that they can get along with other dogs if introduced early, but she shows signs of aggression (may be confused with her playful manner) towards smaller dogs. The mother of PM#2 as a matter of fact. Could pregnancy be a factor in the aggression she is receiving??? The pit will be about 11 months or so, is that still considered a trainable puppy as far as introduction.

jennifer75 · Jul 23, 2008

bonobo_jones said:
My current pup - a small terrier/herding mix - was well raised by my two older Rottweilers. They taught her impeccable dog-manners. Although it was noisy at first with all the roaring and yip yip yip OMG they're killing me yip yip... : oh look a leaf:
Puppies are fun for a while, then you can't wait for them to grow up already and get their final brain shipment.

yea, but I'm concerned being that PM#1 is a Pit Bull. I know, stereotypes alllll over the place, but I can't help it. I can just see her eating the poor thing. Also she's still a pup herself....how can one learning pup teach another??? Sounds like a battle in the making.

auntybug · Jul 23, 2008

I had a Stafforshire that we had to put down after it bit a kid. I never wanted the dog - my ex-did. I found out later that it had bitten someone before too & he never told me. I always thought it was a learned thing but we had it since it was 8 weeks old & showed it nothing but love. It turned out the dad was mean & often killed the puppies. When the breeders wife had a baby, they put the dog down out of fear for the baby. That is a dog that should never have been bred. I have a friend with an American Bull terrier that is a sweetheart and a friend that breeds red-nosed bull terriers. These are all sweet and find homes that will never "pit fight" them. They both hate the term "Pit-Bull".

You should be able to tell if its aggressive or not fairly soon. Inquire about the parents if you don't know them.

You shouldn't have a hard time with puppies adjusting to each other - it's usually a problem with older dogs that are set in their ways or routines. Of course, there are exceptions like everything else. You can throw my 2 in with ten dogs and they are just fine. ( I did that BTW - nothin' beats a mutt

)

Good Luck!

Tink · Jul 23, 2008

jennifer75 said:
PM#1 is a pitbull puppy. I read that they can get along with other dogs if introduced early, but she shows signs of aggression (may be confused with her playful manner) towards smaller dogs. The mother of PM#2 as a matter of fact. Could pregnancy be a factor in the aggression she is receiving??? The pit will be about 11 months or so, is that still considered a trainable puppy as far as introduction.

She should be ok. You will just have to teach both of them...also, I would recommend that PM#1 & 2 should have seperate water/food bowls because of domain issues. Not all pets are like that but you never know. If PM#1 feels that her space is being invaded then that may cause problems. Its really hard to tell. Animals are like humans in that they all have different personalities and different ways of dealing with different situations.

joyce · Jul 23, 2008

jennifer75 said:
yea, but I'm concerned being that PM#1 is a Pit Bull. I know, stereotypes alllll over the place, but I can't help it. I can just see her eating the poor thing. Also she's still a pup herself....how can one learning pup teach another??? Sounds like a battle in the making.

I too heard nothing but horrible stories about pits. The funny thing when I use to help at our local shelter the dogs that were locked up the most for dog bites were Chows and little terriers.

Last year my daughter rescued this half dead puppy from the streets and brought it home. He was a pit bull and I have two labs. This dog is the sweetest thing and put to rest any bad feelings I had toward the breed in general. Sure, he's got a powerful jaw when he's playing but I know he doesn't know his own strength. My male lab is 7 and as far as the pit is concerned, the lab is the ruler of the pack. The pit now tries to retrieve objects like the labs, he just needs to shake them a bit before he gives it back to you. I haven't seen one ounce of mean in this guy and I do believe the other two dogs have tried to turn him into a lab.

Needless to say, I'll never look at pits the same way again. I think if you train an animal to be mean, it will be mean. Yes, he's got a powerful mouth but he's never used it to hurt anyone or anything. Heck, I once owned a lab that would make most pits look harmless.

jennifer75 · Jul 23, 2008

auntybug said:
I had a Stafforshire that we had to put down after it bit a kid. I never wanted the dog - my ex-did.

Yea they look mean. They're smaller and stalker I believe.

I have a friend with an American Bull terrier that is a sweetheart and a friend that breeds red-nosed bull terriers. These are all sweet and find homes that will never "pit fight" them. They both hate the term "Pit-Bull".

Ours is a Rednose. She is adorable. She shows signs of jealousy a little, she seperated me from her "master" when we were snuggling on the couch, even gave me slight growl/yip. I am not thrilled with this.

I imagine she can be helped.

You should be able to tell if its aggressive or not fairly soon. Inquire about the parents if you don't know them.

I will inquire on the parents, thanks for the tips.

bonobo_jones · Jul 23, 2008

jennifer75 said:
yea, but I'm concerned being that PM#1 is a Pit Bull. I know, stereotypes alllll over the place, but I can't help it. I can just see her eating the poor thing. Also she's still a pup herself....how can one learning pup teach another??? Sounds like a battle in the making.

Well I've had Rottweilers for 22 years so I'm well acquainted with both stereotypes and dog-aggression. Your chances of the two growing old together harmoniously will be improved 150% if New Puppy is a male. Same-sex aggression is much more common.
Hopefully you have already been working to socialize your current pup and she's at an age where dog-aggression and attitude will start showing. If you haven't seen any signe of it yet, and if she's already used to interacting with other dogs and is on the way to being reasonably well trained, you certainly shouldn't have a problem with a new male puppy.
If she is untrained, unsocialised and/or you have seen early signs of dog or animal aggression, you may want to reconsider getting a puppy now. You (hopefully) know your current dog well enough to make that choice.
That said I know several pitbulls who are absolute sweethearts with cats, birds and other dogs. I have never owned a Rottweiler who would dare to mess with any of the other animals in my household, but I work very hard to train and socialize all my dogs.

bonobo_jones · Jul 23, 2008

jennifer75 said:
Ours is a Rednose. She is adorable. She shows signs of jealousy a little, she seperated me from her "master" when we were snuggling on the couch, even gave me slight growl/yip. I am not thrilled with this.

.

You might want to get a handle on this behaviour, like, yesterday. Seriously, she is dissing you big time if she is acting jealous and growling. This is very fixable. Google "nilif" (Nothing In Life Is Free.) Then do it.

jennifer75 · Jul 23, 2008

bonobo_jones said:
Well I've had Rottweilers for 22 years so I'm well acquainted with both stereotypes and dog-aggression. Your chances of the two growing old together harmoniously will be improved 150% if New Puppy is a male. Same-sex aggression is much more common.

Even if PM#2 is a small breed? I'm talkin REAL small. The mother is part poodle part some kind of small breed terrior, the father (from what we're guessing) is also a small terrior. So the puppy will be minute.

Hopefully you have already been working to socialize your current pup and she's at an age where dog-aggression and attitude will start showing.

We've had her at home for the weekend - weekdays are spent at a friends home (call him the co-owner) he has a yard for her. We will parent her on the weekends and often visit during the week in the evening. So she'll remain in contact with us on a normal basis, she'll just sleep somewhere else. PM#2 will live with us permanently, so she'll be safe and actually come out as PM#1 now that I think about it. I know, sounds wierd. But living in an apartment is not suitable for a pit. I've had her at the park, watching kids and comforting her and allowing for petting by children (monitored of course) and she spent the entire day lounging with my 6 year old. Lots of correcting and training so hopefully she will adapt and not develop aggressive traits. Hopefully.

If you haven't seen any signe of it yet, and if she's already used to interacting with other dogs and is on the way to being reasonably well trained, you certainly shouldn't have a problem with a new male puppy.

It's hard to know yet what she is saying when she acts certain ways right now, since she is a puppy. We don't know her way of showing aggression and how to tell if its her playful personality yet. She is definitely interested, and stares with interest when the mama of PM#2 is near, however PM#2's mama is very unhappy with PM#1's presence (she is the master of the front of the house that PM#1 will be staying at during the week, so they must have some sort of friendly co-existence) but I'm wondering if that's because she's pregnant...?

jennifer75 · Jul 23, 2008

bonobo_jones said:
You might want to get a handle on this behaviour, like, yesterday. Seriously, she is dissing you big time if she is acting jealous and growling. This is very fixable. Google "nilif" (Nothing In Life Is Free.) Then do it.

Her "master", my Bf, and I have had one on one time with her, very rarely in a together type of situation. I wonder if that is good or bad? I figured she'd see us both as masters this way. She reacts and responds to my direction as well as his, but the one moment we were together she was clearly jealous.

She adores my BF. He is clearly the pack leader. I'm sure it's because we adopted her from a male, so she may see resemblence in them and just feel better following the lead of that stronger, larger, masculine leader than myself.

My biggest thing is this, where ever she lives, wether if its in my apt on weekends for visits, or in this backyard, I don't want the dog to pick up aggressive behavior patterns. I want her to socialize, I want to know that we can enter the yard and taker her by the leash and know that she will pick up where she left off with us, without abandoning what she's learned from us. And with constant interaction, I think it's possible. Am I crazy? Can a dog live in to environments and not lose anything taught to it? Can she adapt? Or is this going to confuse her? Should we abandon any thoughts of ever removing her from the yard, so to speak?

bonobo_jones · Jul 23, 2008

Well - aggression towards humans and aggression towards other animals are two really different things to a dog. And very small dogs - particularly fluffy ones - can trigger prey drive in some dogs (not just pibbles, it's something you need to be aware of as the owner of an itty bitty dog.) One of my current Rottweilers is lovely with my cats, puppies, all people, and most adult dogs - but she has a wicked high prey drive and I would not trust her unmonitored with a very little dog. This link sort of explains prey and chase drive. This is probably the type of aggression that most often gets very small dogs injured by larger dogs.
OTOH, my male Rottweiler is very dominant and bossy and I have to watch him around other dominant large dogs. This is a different type of aggression where he feels the butthead need to respond to perceived threats. Small dogs don't present a threat, so even if little dogs rush at him yapping and snapping, he basically ignores them.
So that just explains kinda that there are different types of aggression or things that will trigger it in dogs, so one has to be familiar with dog body language and signals - most dog attacks happen because people are not reading the signs.

I'd probably keep your pibble away from mama dog, most definitely. If for no other reasons than two uber-hormonal bitches sharing a room is usually never a great idea.

Damn, nothing like a dog discussion to get me outta lurkerdom.

bonobo_jones · Jul 23, 2008

jennifer75 said:
Her "master", my Bf, and I have had one on one time with her, very rarely in a together type of situation. I wonder if that is good or bad? I figured she'd see us both as masters this way. She reacts and responds to my direction as well as his, but the one moment we were together she was clearly jealous.

She adores my BF. He is clearly the pack leader. I'm sure it's because we adopted her from a male, so she may see resemblence in them and just feel better following the lead of that stronger, larger, masculine leader than myself.

My biggest thing is this, where ever she lives, wether if its in my apt on weekends for visits, or in this backyard, I don't want the dog to pick up aggressive behavior patterns. I want her to socialize, I want to know that we can enter the yard and taker her by the leash and know that she will pick up where she left off with us, without abandoning what she's learned from us. And with constant interaction, I think it's possible. Am I crazy? Can a dog live in to environments and not lose anything taught to it? Can she adapt? Or is this going to confuse her? Should we abandon any thoughts of ever removing her from the yard, so to speak?

Dogs are incredibly malleable. I think this sounds like a pretty good arrangement for her, actually!
Yes, dogs adapt well to all sorts of differing environments as long as the rules are consistent. Think of hunting dogs who learn one set of rules in the home, another for the field. Or herding dogs, or dogs that compete in various sports, like mine.
In fact I think a bit of change is a good thing, keeps everyone more mentally stimulated and I feel sorry for dogs that never get out of the same old yard for years.

jennifer75 · Jul 23, 2008

bonobo_jones said:
Well - aggression towards humans and aggression towards other animals are two really different things to a dog. And very small dogs - particularly fluffy ones - can trigger prey drive in some dogs (not just pibbles, it's something you need to be aware of as the owner of an itty bitty dog.)

God that makes a world of sense.

This link sort of explains prey and chase drive.

Thanks for the link, will study up tonight. This is one of the reasons why my WIP is sitting there, dusty.

pibble

That is so cute.

I'd probably keep your away from mama dog, most definitely. If for no other reasons than two uber-hormonal bitches sharing a room is usually never a great idea.

totally with you on that.

Damn, nothing like a dog discussion to get me outta lurkerdom.

Thank you for your time!

jennifer75 · Jul 23, 2008

bonobo_jones said:
Dogs are incredibly malleable. I think this sounds like a pretty good arrangement for her, actually!
Yes, dogs adapt well to all sorts of differing environments as long as the rules are consistent. Think of hunting dogs who learn one set of rules in the home, another for the field. Or herding dogs, or dogs that compete in various sports, like mine.
In fact I think a bit of change is a good thing, keeps everyone more mentally stimulated and I feel sorry for dogs that never get out of the same old yard for years.

Oh thank God! I was fearing that we were only going to confuse the hell out of her.

jennifer75 · Jul 23, 2008

PM#1 at her cutest most confused look.

joyce · Jul 23, 2008

jennifer75 said:
PM#1 at her cutest most confused look.

Jennifer she's so darn cute! I love her color. My daughters is more red.

jennifer75 · Jul 23, 2008

She is.....also the strongest damn 6 month old I've ever had to lead! Damn near almost threw my back out!

bonobo_jones · Jul 23, 2008

jennifer75 said:
PM#1 at her cutest most confused look.

Adorable!
I love all the colours pibbles come in. Rottweilers are rather monotonous by comparison.
Oh I just found a better link explaining drives:
http://www.dogstuff.info/elements_of_temperament_drives.html

And now I have to take my big bad Rottweiler to his Wednesday night agility class.

joyce · Jul 23, 2008

She's got the sweetest face! I know with all the dogs I've owned it's always been the females that were the toughest. They seemed to take less crap than the males. My female lab is the best watchdog. I think if you get the girls to get along your problem will be solved. It was my female who was the least impressed when baby pit came to stay. Once she set him straight on who was the ruler they've become best buds. He stays at my daughters apartment part-time them comes and stays at my house. He seems to enjoy the change and has had no problems adjusting.

She really is a pretty dog.

Ol' Fashioned Girl · Jul 23, 2008

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