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efreysson
07-22-2008, 03:03 AM
I have Asperger's Syndrome (a relatively mild autistic spectrum disorder), so I've never really had much of a social life, and am absolutely terrible at picking up subtle social hints. So, a recent encounter has left me wondering yet again: Just how do women go about expressing a faint interest in someone they don't know? I know you can't really generalize with something like that, but a few hints would be really helpful. I'm 25 years old now, and tired of getting into situations where I wonder if I'm reading too much into things and in danger of making an ass of myself, or if I'm missing out on an opportunity.
I have, by and large, adapted to my condition and learned a lot about interacting with my fellow humans, but this little issue still causes me some doubts and fears now and then. So . . . any hints?

Shady Lane
07-22-2008, 03:07 AM
Hmmm, good question, and I applaud you for reaching out. :)

I'm seventeen, and my answers probably reflect that, but if I were just getting to know someone and I were interested in him, I'd probably giggle, touch his arm when I was talking, tease him a little bit, try to get him to talk about his family.

Kitty Pryde
07-22-2008, 03:17 AM
Have you read this: http://www-users.cs.york.ac.uk/~alistair/survival/ ?

SPMiller
07-22-2008, 03:59 AM
One easy way to compensate for this problem (as I posted in another thread recently) is to just try physical intimacy and see what happens. This has worked well for me, but I have some advantages: physical attractiveness and a very thick skin.

As far as body language in the context of flirtation goes, I'm hopeless and can't help you. But I do have some advice for certain other signs you can watch for.

If she's making an effort to be alone with you in private, this is a pretty good hint that's difficult to mistake for anything else--either that or she considers you a close friend, and you can probably tell the difference. Most people tend to avoid being alone with people they distrust or dislike. But she might, for example, invite you to her place. Looks innocent enough on the surface, but often enough it isn't.

Another sign is when you meet her at one place and she wants to go with you somewhere else. For example, you're at a loud bar and she wants to go get some food or maybe late-night coffee elsewhere. She wouldn't want to extend her social interaction with you unless she were enjoying it.

mario_c
07-22-2008, 04:46 AM
How do you figure out if a woman is interested, or how she feels about you? Well, you can't. If someone out there can, this guy would like to know how. So don't feel bad about it.

C.bronco
07-22-2008, 04:54 AM
See how she reacts to a compliment about her appearance. Good luck!

Silver King
07-22-2008, 05:00 AM
Just ask her, "Hey, Babe, wanna come back to my place?"

If she frowns, laugh and act like you were kidding.

If she smiles, lead the way.

(Can you tell I haven't been single in over a quarter century?) :D

Melenka
07-22-2008, 08:19 AM
I know this is probably the most difficult approach, especially for someone with high-function autism (heck, for everyone!), but one of the things that helps is to be honest about not always getting subtle clues. Something along the lines of "I'm not always good at reading non-verbal communication, so I might seem a bit clueless sometimes. It's best to tell me things straight out, so I can be a better friend." It gives her the opportunity to tell you that she wants more - or just wants to hang out. It also helps her understand that you aren't ignoring what she may think are really obvious signs.

Yeah, I'm gearing up to help my son through this and have spent a fair amount of time talking to folks on the spectrum. I wish you the best of luck.

James81
07-22-2008, 04:36 PM
The NUMBER ONE way to see if a woman is interested in you is to ASK HER OUT.

It's hard to get yourself to a place where the rejection doesn't bother you, but some things you just have to FORCE yourself to do.

the biggest way to improve on something you are bad at, is to continually and repeatedly do it over and over again with no regard for failure.

I've suspsected my son of having Asperger's, so I've read a bit about it and I understand you are working against harder obstacles than most, but then again that means your "victory" is going to be that much sweeter.

Always carry with you a superior attitude and mindset (not a "I'm more superior than you" attitude, but rather a set of internal beliefs that keep you in a positive state of mind, but are also TRUE).

Tink
07-22-2008, 04:50 PM
Good post James. :)

The only thing that I can offer here is eye-contact. Strong eye-contact or quick glances where your eyes lock and hold for a second or two before one of you looks away.

I agree with James post's and a few other listed above. You have to take the plunge (no joke intended here) and let---come-what-may. Rejection is a part of everyone's life no matter what you look like or whatever your situation may be...you are just going to have to risk it and try.

I read somewhere that its ok if you are not liked by all...that the person you may wish to like you may prefer, say mustard over ketchup, you may be the ketchup in certain instances. It Doesn't mean anything is wrong with you, you just don't fit a particular persons taste but don't give up or get too discouraged because there are lots of people who like ketchup. K? :)
Best wishes for your success.

Melenka
07-22-2008, 05:33 PM
I don't know about efreysson, but many people with autistic spectrum disorders find it incredibly uncomfortable to make eye-contact for even a short period of time. Looking someone in the eyes for more than a brief moment is impossible for my son, and that is unlikely to change. When he was old enough to talk about it, he simply said "it hurts too much." More recently, he explained that the intensity of prolonged eye contact is too much for his brain to process. Apparently there's a lot more going on in people's eyes than we think about.

SPMiller
07-22-2008, 05:37 PM
You have to take the plunge (no joke intended here) and let---come-what-may.This has left me with a funny feeling :Huh:


Apparently there's a lot more going on in people's eyes than we think about.But but but... http://www.absolutewrite.com/forums/showthread.php?t=106453!

Cranky
07-22-2008, 05:37 PM
I don't know about efreysson, but many people with autistic spectrum disorders find it incredibly uncomfortable to make eye-contact for even a short period of time. Looking someone in the eyes for more than a brief moment is impossible for my son, and that is unlikely to change. When he was old enough to talk about it, he simply said "it hurts too much." More recently, he explained that the intensity of prolonged eye contact is too much for his brain to process. Apparently there's a lot more going on in people's eyes than we think about.

What she said. :)

For efreysson, I'm afraid I don't have much in the way of advice beyond what has already been given.

Biggest thing is to remember that without risk, there is no reward. :)

Stacia Kane
07-23-2008, 08:29 PM
Does she touch you a lot? If so, that's probably a sign she's interested.

Does she talk about other guys around you? Because if so, that's a sign she's not interested. Most girls know when you're attracted to them, and if they're not interested they'll make it clear by doing things like that--talking about other guys, telling you what a good friend you are (with the emphasis on the word "friend"), talking about how they don't want a relationship right now...that sort of thing. At least that's what I always did.

(By "talking about other guys" I mean saying things like, "So-and-so is really funny/good-looking/attractive/cute/whatever", not telling you about exes or anything like that.)


Also, when I liked a guy I'd do stuff like show him my baby pictures or tell him funny stories about my childhood/younger years, and ask him about his. That may have been specific to me, but generally if she wants to know that kind of thing, she's interested. At least in my opinion.

James81
07-23-2008, 08:46 PM
Does she talk about other guys around you? Because if so, that's a sign she's not interested. Most girls know when you're attracted to them, and if they're not interested they'll make it clear by doing things like that--talking about other guys, telling you what a good friend you are (with the emphasis on the word "friend"), talking about how they don't want a relationship right now...that sort of thing. At least that's what I always did.



The trouble with THAT approach is, it does nothing but prolong a guy's attempts at revealing how he feels about her or asking her out...or rather, at least a guy who is really shy about doing this sort of thing.

The reason it prolongs it is because the guy usually doesn't pick up on that as a sign of disinterest. In reality, what it does is make him question even HARDER whether the girl likes him. It's mixed signals, because the guy is already clouded by his "feelings" for her that hints like that are not going to transmit a clear enough message to turn him away, but it WILL do enough to make him hold off longer on his approach.

If that makes any sense.

Personally, I think it's better if a girl just doesn't give off any hints that she doesn't like a guy. Instead of prolonging his asking her, just let him approach you and tell him you're not interested. Like a band-aid...rip it off quick and painful in one stroke, deal with the pain, and move on.

James81
07-23-2008, 08:50 PM
How a guy like this reacts to each of your "hints":

1. Telling him about how great this other guy is -- jealousy, and perhaps even a thought that you might be doing it on purpose to MAKE him jealous. You ARE doing it on purpose, of course, and he senses that, he just doesn't understand WHY you are doing it on purpose and in his mind he thinks "she's trying to make me jealous".

2. Telling him how great a friend he is -- ego...he feels good about himself as if he's doing something RIGHT. This doesn't deter him in any way.

3. How they don't want a relationship right now -- indifference, EVERYBODY says that so much that it's dilluted and not something that he believes.

Toothpaste
07-23-2008, 09:10 PM
James makes some good points. I find that many men (not all) do have a great sense of self. The conclusion they draw from a woman's attention is "She must like me!" Any of the signs that seem obvious to a woman as a suggestion to "Um no I don't" get interpreted by the man to signal that she is totally into him.

I don't think this is a bad thing (though of course when it inflates to a huge ego, then it is), I just wish more women had such thoughts. Sweeping generalisation here, but it has seemed to me that women are the opposite. They assume the man isn't interested, no matter what he is saying. Even if he is on one knee and asking her hand in marriage. My mom had been dating my dad for years and he said to her one day, "We need to talk about something" and she burst into tears thinking he was going to dump her. Instead, he proposed.

Now of course there are men who are incredibly down on themselves and can't think why anyone would like them, and women who think so highly of themselves that they are shocked to learn they aren't always hot stuff. But still, it's a trend I have noticed.

James81
07-23-2008, 09:22 PM
women who think so highly of themselves that they are shocked to learn they aren't always hot stuff.

It is SOOOO much fun bringing these women down to earth. :roll:

She_wulf
07-23-2008, 09:27 PM
strike up conversation. Find out commonalities, then ask. If you're shot down, don't ask again. Ihate guys like that.

Like your obnoxious personality is REALLY winning me over. :P

James81
07-23-2008, 09:35 PM
strike up conversation. Find out commonalities, then ask. If you're shot down, don't ask again. Ihate guys like that.

Like your obnoxious personality is REALLY winning me over. :P

lol

A lot of girls DO require persistance, though.

Heck, sometimes it's all a matter of blind luck on what emotional state a woman is in on the particular day you ask her. Sometimes a sure thing becomes a fat NO, just simply because she's in a different emotional state that day. Sometimes a big NO is actually a sure thing on another day.

rhymegirl
07-23-2008, 10:06 PM
So, a recent encounter has left me wondering yet again: Just how do women go about expressing a faint interest in someone they don't know?

We will smile at you. Make eye contact. Have open body language, leaning forward while speaking to you from across the table instead of sitting back or folding the arms across the chest.

Laugh at your jokes.

jennifer75
07-23-2008, 10:13 PM
So, a recent encounter has left me wondering yet again: Just how do women go about expressing a faint interest in someone they don't know?


I think conversation is the best way to go about it. This way there is no "beating around the bush" and you get to know this person. And it can be about anything. I find if you ask about ones profession it can tell you how serious they are about where they are in life, how smart the person is, and you can always take that conversation into the "so, you must be busy, how do you find time for yourself/what do you do in your spare time" which then can lead you to hobbies, and possibly a "oh, I've always wanted to do that...".... get my drift? :)

Glad to help.

James81
07-23-2008, 10:15 PM
I think conversation is the best way to go about it. This way there is no "beating around the bush" and you get to know this person. And it can be about anything. I find if you ask about ones profession it can tell you how serious they are about where they are in life, how smart the person is, and you can always take that conversation into the "so, you must be busy, how do you find time for yourself/what do you do in your spare time" which then can lead you to hobbies, and possibly a "oh, I've always wanted to do that...".... get my drift? :)

Glad to help.

Anybody else wonder why we have to jump through hoops like this?

Wouldn't it be great if you could just walk up to a girl and say: "Hey, I think you are attractive. I would like to engage you in a relationship which leads to our having sex at some point."

:tongue

rhymegirl
07-23-2008, 10:20 PM
Wouldn't it be great if you could just walk up to a girl and say: "Hey, I think you are attractive. I would like to engage you in a relationship which leads to our having sex at some point."

:tongue

You could do that. But you might get arrested.

James81
07-23-2008, 10:32 PM
You could do that. But you might get arrested.

:roll:

*sigh*

Only in a perfect world...

jennifer75
07-23-2008, 10:49 PM
Anybody else wonder why we have to jump through hoops like this?

Wouldn't it be great if you could just walk up to a girl and say: "Hey, I think you are attractive. I would like to engage you in a relationship which leads to our having sex at some point."

:tongue
Why must you follow me? ;)

efreysson
07-24-2008, 03:16 AM
Many thanks to all who have contributed so far. I don't really have time to reply to each post, but Melinka brought up the fact that many Aspies have problems with eye contact. I don't, as such, but my stare in very rigid and intense, so I find it best not to drill it into people for too long.

Yeah, obviously the best thing to do is go out there and try and fail until something comes out of it. I'm just terrified of being seen as obnoxious or clueless, and my piss-poor people-reading-skills HAVE brought me to just that place several times.
But I'll try to take these advice to heart, and see what the future holds for me.

TerzaRima
07-24-2008, 03:30 AM
Efreysson, have you ever tried turning down the TV and watching some sitcom with the sound off? I know it sounds nuts, but that's one of the things we tell the families of kids with autism/AS/nonverbal learning problems to do.

Let's say it's an episode of The Office you've seen a few times. Maybe that's a bad example..make it something a little broader, like a Friends rerun. Turn the sound down and try to figure out what the actors are trying to communicate without hearing their words. You may start to note particular trends as far as what people's gestures and body postures mean.

I don't mean to patronize you or treat you like a kid--I have no idea how involved your AS is. But some people tell me this is helpful, anyway. Good luck.

jennifer75
07-24-2008, 03:39 AM
Yeah, obviously the best thing to do is go out there and try and fail until something comes out of it.

Well you can't have that attitude or you'll fail! :)



I'm just terrified of being seen as obnoxious or clueless, and my piss-poor people-reading-skills HAVE brought me to just that place several times.



Maybe part of your conversation starter could be the fact that you have Asp...throw in a "most people find my quirks to be obnoxious or cluesless but I assure you this is not the case" and make it seem like less of an issue than you feel it is. Tell them. Be up front about it. If it frightens people away, F'em. If it doesn't, then you know you've got somebody listening and intelligent enough to come out of their comfort zone and are willing to find out what you are all about.

Eeek
07-24-2008, 04:48 AM
I know this is probably the most difficult approach, especially for someone with high-function autism (heck, for everyone!), but one of the things that helps is to be honest about not always getting subtle clues. Something along the lines of "I'm not always good at reading non-verbal communication, so I might seem a bit clueless sometimes. It's best to tell me things straight out, so I can be a better friend." It gives her the opportunity to tell you that she wants more - or just wants to hang out. It also helps her understand that you aren't ignoring what she may think are really obvious signs.

I really like this idea!

stormie
07-24-2008, 04:56 AM
As my nephew once said (he's an aspie too), "I feel like I was born without a manual." Both my sons are aspies, but very different (they have other issues on top of that). You'll find out about communicating with women through trial and error, unfortunately. Being told what to look for or how women react is difficult, since every woman too is different.
(Geez, some help I am!)

A thought--Are there social skills groups in your area? You could contact a therapist and find out. Or your local hospital. (Mental health includes Asperger's and autism or any PDD-NOS)

jennifer75
07-24-2008, 06:42 AM
Some women are very up front and agressive when they are interested in a man-

huh, what, I'm sorry were you saying something to me??? ;)

James81
07-24-2008, 03:38 PM
I'm just terrified of being seen as obnoxious

You know, the interesting thing is that being seen as obnoxious will actually HELP your chances with women, though few of them admit it.

Don't worry about coming across as obnoxious, because that's what you HOPE to do.

Toothpaste
07-24-2008, 05:40 PM
It is SOOOO much fun bringing these women down to earth. :roll:


I know what you mean. I have just as much fun doing the same with those kind of men! :)

Mr Flibble
07-24-2008, 07:06 PM
Wouldn't it be great if you could just walk up to a girl and say: "Hey, I think you are attractive. I would like to engage you in a relationship which leads to our having sex at some point."

I've always needed guys to do that. I've actually been three hours into a date before I realised it was a date. I never realise they fancy me right up to the point they lose patience with trying to 'give out signals' and snog me. I've probably missed out on plenty of guys because I didn't realise they were interested and they didn't have the nerve to just come out and say it. It's even worse if I fancy them, because I convince myself they are being friendly and that's all.

Once I got older ( and more confident), I got round it by walking up to the guy and saying 'I fancy you something rotten. What are you going to do about it?' Which works like a charm :)

To the OP, be yourself. It's all anyone can do.

James81
07-24-2008, 07:14 PM
Once I got older ( and more confident), I got round it by walking up to the guy and saying 'I fancy you something rotten. What are you going to do about it?' Which works like a charm :)



If you are a reasonably attractive girl, it wouldn't matter WHAT you said and it would work. You could walk up to a guy and by like "I pray to the flying spaghetti monster, twist my pubic hair into small poodles, and drink the blood of chickens on sacrifice night. Oh, and I like you."

And the guy would be like, "Awesome, let's fuck!"

Mr Flibble
07-24-2008, 07:24 PM
And the guy would be like, "Awesome, let's fuck!"

They were slightly more subtle out loud, but yup I could see them thinking it :)

How did I get together with my Old Man? I rung him up and said I wanted to find out if I was just lusting after him or what. I could almost hear the 'schwing!'

Thing is I don't ever pick up on the non verbal clues that say someone likes me, and it took a while to get past the shy stage ( where I had to wait for them to be real specific) and into a more confident place where I could say 'Hell with it. I fancy him. Sod trying to figure out if he likes me back, because I can't. So I'll ask'

Bubastes
07-24-2008, 07:39 PM
Once I got older ( and more confident), I got round it by walking up to the guy and saying 'I fancy you something rotten. What are you going to do about it?' Which works like a charm :)


I agree. I've used variations on this and asked guys out since high school. It's a good way to find out quickly whether or not they're interested. If not, I moved on. When I felt really sassy, I even initiated kisses with guys I particularly liked (including MeowGuy). Ah, fun times!

rhymegirl
07-24-2008, 07:51 PM
Wouldn't it be great if you could just walk up to a girl and say: "Hey, I think you are attractive. I would like to engage you in a relationship which leads to our having sex at some point."

I would also like to point out that some guys DO say things like this.

jennifer75
07-24-2008, 07:55 PM
You know, the interesting thing is that being seen as obnoxious will actually HELP your chances with women, though few of them admit it.


I beg to differ. Unless of course you're hoping for rejection and ridicule. :)

James81
07-24-2008, 07:57 PM
I beg to differ. Unless of course you're hoping for rejection and ridicule. :)

Rejection and ridicule are just another hurdle to cross. When you become truly obnoxious, things like "rejection" or "ridicule" don't matter to you anymore.

Write4U2
07-24-2008, 08:32 PM
I think conversation is the best way to go about it. This way there is no "beating around the bush" and you get to know this person. And it can be about anything. I find if you ask about ones profession it can tell you how serious they are about where they are in life, how smart the person is, and you can always take that conversation into the "so, you must be busy, how do you find time for yourself/what do you do in your spare time" which then can lead you to hobbies, and possibly a "oh, I've always wanted to do that...".... get my drift? :)

Glad to help.

There you go, pal. What she said.

Some women are attractive, but have low self-esteem. They don't think they're attractive, and if they're shot down because they're not interested (could be for many reasons, not just because you are what you are), you could hurting her badly.

Some women don't like to touch or be touched, especially by strangers. It's kinda space invading.

If a woman has high regard for herself, she probably won't respond to "Hey, how about screwing?"

jennifer75
07-24-2008, 08:33 PM
I'm very forward...specially when I drink. I say, take up drinking, hit the bar, and have at'em. :) Nonononono...that's all wrong. ;)

SPMiller
07-24-2008, 08:43 PM
I'm very forward...specially when I drink. I say, take up drinking, hit the bar, and have at'em. :) Nonononono...that's all wrong. ;)Hmm? All wrong? It seems to work just fine. Sure, it's noisy and confusing, but it works.

Then again you may have been sarcastic with that last bit. Can't tell.

jennifer75
07-24-2008, 08:45 PM
Hmm? All wrong? It seems to work just fine. Sure, it's noisy and confusing, but it works.

Then again you may have been sarcastic with that last bit. Can't tell.

And where do you live???? We've got to parrrrtay!!!

Mr Flibble
07-24-2008, 08:46 PM
If a woman has high regard for herself, she probably won't respond to "Hey, how about screwing?"

She might if the person doing the asking is Johnny Depp dressed as Captain Jack. ;)

SPMiller
07-24-2008, 11:41 PM
And where do you live???? We've got to parrrrtay!!!Hey, don't you bluff with me. I'm likely to take you up on that offer :tongue


She might if the person doing the asking is Johnny Depp dressed as Captain Jack. What about Depp as Jack dipped in mineral oil?

jennifer75
07-25-2008, 12:15 AM
Hey, don't you bluff with me. I'm likely to take you up on that offer :tongue



Come on over/up sweet cheeks!

Jcomp
07-25-2008, 12:19 AM
It helps to put yourself in situations where you can pursue women without having to worry about the dreaded "icebreaker." Before my confidence got all "We're gonna need a bigger boat" huge I found that the introduction was the biggest hurdle. If you can find ways to circumvent it, where intros are already taken care of one way or another and you can cut straight to the "Getting to know each other" stuff, that can alleviate a lot of anxiety.

jennifer75
07-25-2008, 12:44 AM
Like....myspace??? Internet dating is baaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaad. For most. Not all....so I don't want to see a huge wave of "no it's not...."

But then again, maybe it will be an option for the OPer.

Also, how do you mean when your confidence got "we're gonna need a bigger boat" huge? Is this why you're fleeing TX for another town.....one where the size of your confidence is not yet discovered ;)

Jcomp
07-25-2008, 12:54 AM
Like....myspace??? Internet dating is baaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaad. For most. Not all....so I don't want to see a huge wave of "no it's not...."

But then again, maybe it will be an option for the OPer.

Also, how do you mean when your confidence got "we're gonna need a bigger boat" huge? Is this why you're fleeing TX for another town.....one where the size of your confidence is not yet discovered ;)

Ha! I was exaggerating. I've been told that my ego is visible from space. I like to think I'm just real.

As far as places / situations to meet girls where intros are all but taken care of smaller "get together" type of gatherings - as opposed to parties - come to mind. Dinners with friends where someone invites a single female (just make sure it's not an obvious "intent-to-pair-up" situation, as that only makes it extra awkward).

Situations where the conversation isn't about one person trying to impress the other or dig for information, but just two people talking.

I personally don't get down with internet dating. I've never approached a girl on myspace who I didn't already know in real life. It just seems sorta weird. That's just me.

jennifer75
07-25-2008, 01:04 AM
smaller "get together" type of gatherings - as opposed to parties - come to mind. Dinners with friends where someone invites a single female (just make sure it's not an obvious "intent-to-pair-up" situation, as that only makes it extra awkward).



Good points. But say the OP doesn't a tight enough circle of friends that she could find herself in one the above situations.

Jcomp
07-25-2008, 01:26 AM
Good points. But say the OP doesn't a tight enough circle of friends that she could find herself in one the above situations.

See what kind of groups / clubs (not "nightclubs") are located in your area that might have people who share your interests.

Is there a local writing club? Book club? Silent-Film-Lovers club? Any-other-interest club? The icebreaker is circumvented because you'll have to introduce yourself to the club at large in your first meeting, and there's no pressure in trying to immediately impress someone because you're just there to share your common love of whatever interests you.

If there are girls in the club that you're interested in, all the better, but even if not, chances are it's a relatively easy way to build out your circle of friends and meet their friends, and then we're back to the "socializing at get-togethers and dinners" thing.

The worst that can happen is you meet a bunch of people you don't particularly care for, have no obligation whatsoever to continue interacting with them, and then move on.

My own personal example, I was painfully shy around women until I got a corporate job with a large company (not exactly a local club, but still). My big hurdle was the icebreaker. I was great once introductions were out of the way, but worrying over introducing myself would kill all opportunities for me. But at the job it was different. You have to introduce yourself as you're working with people, attending meetings, luncheons, pot lucks, birthdays, training sessions, so on and so forth. With that out of the way, all I had to worry about was being me. And not long after that my confidence (which up to that point I'd primarily pretended to have) went through the roof. Of a skyscraper. Seriously, it was a pretty significant transformation for me. One of the best things to ever happen to me, easily.

Mind you, this is just one course. Others have also proposed good ideas, some as simple as "Fake it 'til you make it."

jennifer75
07-25-2008, 01:32 AM
Efreysson....J's got some good points....check out local clubs of interest...if anything you'll expand your circle and maybe one of them is the link between you and that special someone out there.

Write4U2
07-25-2008, 01:38 AM
Ha! I've been told that my ego is visible from space.



:roll:

JimmyB27
07-28-2008, 02:45 PM
It helps to put yourself in situations where you can pursue women without having to worry about the dreaded "icebreaker."
I actually have the opposite problem. The icebreaker is fine, I can talk to strangers ok (despite all my mother's warnings ;)), even female ones. The problem I have is the next step, communicating the fact that I want to go from friend to boyfriend.

Thump
07-28-2008, 03:49 PM
I'm a woman and I wish I could help but I'm helpless when it comes to any aspect of flirting. I can't do it!

Xyrventalagn
07-28-2008, 03:58 PM
The problem I have is the next step, communicating the fact that I want to go from friend to boyfriend.

Well, that's an easy one:

1: Send her a query letter with all of your basic information. Make sure to include your special traits (snore volume, peck-dance duration, etc.) and remember to include any successful past relationships. Friendships and internet relationships do not count.

2a: Wait three to four weeks. She may ask for a synopsis, so be prepared to write one or have one already prepared (2k words maximum). Include only the important aspects of yourself and your past. Remember, she's probably very busy.

2b: If you do not hear back by then, take it as a rejection and try again. The carpet-bomb query method is NOT advised here.

3a: If she likes what she reads, she may ask to meet you in person. Keep in mind that rejection is not too late at this point, but your chances are quite good.

3b: Refer to 2b.

4: If you're still in the game at this point and the up-front meeting has gone well, congratulations, she's interested! (Note* Future binding contracts may be required, along with multiple-child deals.)

James81
07-28-2008, 05:37 PM
The problem I have is the next step, communicating the fact that I want to go from friend to boyfriend.

I understand what you mean, but I find it interesting you put it like this.

NEVER start with the assumption that she is going to be your "girlfriend". That title ("girlfriend") is only reserved for those who are WORTHY of your time and attention.

And it should take you a few weeks and several dates AT THE VERY LEAST to determine that much.

Focus on communicating the fact that you want to take her out. Then when you have her out, show her that you're more than just friends by kissing her (when the moment is right--not always the end of the date and doesn't always happen on the FIRST date either ;)).

Decide if you want to take her on a second date, and if you do, CALL HER again.

My point is...baby steps. You're not seeking a girlfriend the first time you talk to her. You're seeking a date. If you enter the interaction thinking she's going to be your girlfriend, it's going to put HUGE amounts of pressure on you.

Also, it helps if you realize that YOU are qualifying HER and not the other way around. YOU are the catch. YOU have something to offer and should be sizing HER up to see if she meets YOUR standards. ;)

Seaclusion
07-28-2008, 06:14 PM
I understand what you mean, but I find it interesting you put it like this.

NEVER start with the assumption that she is going to be your "girlfriend". That title ("girlfriend") is only reserved for those who are WORTHY of your time and attention.

And it should take you a few weeks and several dates AT THE VERY LEAST to determine that much.

Focus on communicating the fact that you want to take her out. Then when you have her out, show her that you're more than just friends by kissing her (when the moment is right--not always the end of the date and doesn't always happen on the FIRST date either ;)).


Decide if you want to take her on a second date, and if you do, CALL HER again.

My point is...baby steps. You're not seeking a girlfriend the first time you talk to her. You're seeking a date. If you enter the interaction thinking she's going to be your girlfriend, it's going to put HUGE amounts of pressure on you.

Also, it helps if you realize that YOU are qualifying HER and not the other way around. YOU are the catch. YOU have something to offer and should be sizing HER up to see if she meets YOUR standards. ;)

I quoted it so you can read it again. Echo everything James81 said.

Richard

Lola Colleen
07-28-2008, 06:55 PM
This may not be helpful in any way other than moral support but I tend to over think things way too much too. We all do it. You're not alone, those of us that are supposed to be normal have just as much problems. (I don't ever assume that I'm normal, but I'm happy being adorably odd.)

Also I love the query letter explanation. If someone sent me a real one. Oh man. He'd be in. lol. I mean if I liked his synopsis I would definitely give him a chance. haha. I'm posting that on my blog.

Bartholomew
07-28-2008, 11:03 PM
Sew chaos and have money. This will attract women like Tim Allen's security lights attract attract angry neighbors.

cooeedownunder
07-29-2008, 12:32 PM
I don't think single women are shy these days when they like someone, well not all of them. Just enjoy being friends. Often great freindships develope into more. Suggest a coffee, if she says no, she definately is not interested. If she says yes, she may just be looking for companionship....take each moment as they come. Enjoy each other companie and let what happens happen. You can't force things like that.

cooeedownunder
07-29-2008, 12:33 PM
I don't think single women are shy these days when they like someone, well not all of them. Just enjoy being friends. Often great freindships develope into more. Suggest a coffee, if she says no, she may not be interested. If she says yes, she may just be looking for companionship....take each moment as they come. Enjoy each others company and let what happens, happen. You can't force things like that.

JimmyB27
07-30-2008, 03:33 PM
I understand what you mean, but I find it interesting you put it like this.

NEVER start with the assumption that she is going to be your "girlfriend". That title ("girlfriend") is only reserved for those who are WORTHY of your time and attention.
Ok then, fine. I have trouble taking any first step. And surely the ultimate goal here is finding a girlfriend, whether this particular time will pay off or not?

Also, it helps if you realize that YOU are qualifying HER and not the other way around. YOU are the catch. YOU have something to offer and should be sizing HER up to see if she meets YOUR standards. ;)
I am? I can't possibly imagine why.

Just kidding. I'm still pretty low in self esteem, but not that much. Still, I'd prefer to think that we're both the catch. ;)

James81
07-30-2008, 04:48 PM
Ok then, fine. I have trouble taking any first step. And surely the ultimate goal here is finding a girlfriend, whether this particular time will pay off or not?

Look at it this way...

When you buy a house, it's going to be a RARE thing that you can just lump sum outright buy with cash, right?

No, you take out a loan, and you make small payments every month. So long as you are making the payments on time, you don't beat yourself up because it's not paid off do you? Yet your ULTIMATE goal is to pay it off someday and own it. But you don't thik about that when you make the payments. If you obsess about paying off your house in the first years of your mortgage, you are going to be one miserable person for a VERY long time.

It's the same sort of thing. Don't obsess about the final goal. Just worry about making the "payments". Because you know those "payments" will LEAD to the final goal eventually. Worry about the NEXT step instead of the whole ball of wax and you can relax a lot more.

That's all I'm saying. When you have low self-esteem, any form of relaxation you can get really helps.


I am? I can't possibly imagine why.

Just kidding. I'm still pretty low in self esteem, but not that much. Still, I'd prefer to think that we're both the catch. ;)

No, no no no no.

You still have "boyfriend/girlfriend" mentality.

YES, when you finally have a girl that you can call a "girlfrien", you can think of you both as a catch.

But UNTIL then, your goal is to get to know her. No more, no less. If you immediately believe that the girl you are talking out on a first date is a real catch, then you are fooling yourself.

Make her PROVE that to you. Because there are a LOT of girls who are NOT real good catches out there. Just because she has a vagina is no reason to put her on any kind of pedastool. Put her on her pedastool when you discover how wonderful she is, over time. Don't start with her on the pedastool or you are going to make yourself a nervous wreck, constantly qualifying yourself to her instead of making HER show you why she's worth a second date to you. Your time and attention are valuable, you know. If you don't believe that, then you are not ready to be dating yet. ;)

(And don't worry, SHE should be making YOU prove that YOU are a good catch too. I'm just putting it this way because I'm talking to you)

JimmyB27
07-30-2008, 05:46 PM
But there needs to be some level of 'I'm interested in you', right? I mean, you might be paying off that house in small increments, but you make sure you're buying one you like. Or I'm going to be heading down that 'friends' route again. Which is apparently a bad thing.

Anyway, on topic (sorry for the derail), I hope we're making it clear that it's not just people with Asperger's who have problems with the opposite sex.

Pagey's_Girl
07-30-2008, 07:51 PM
Look at it this way...
Make her PROVE that to you. Because there are a LOT of girls who are NOT real good catches out there. Just because she has a vagina is no reason to put her on any kind of pedastool. Put her on her pedastool when you discover how wonderful she is, over time. Don't start with her on the pedastool or you are going to make yourself a nervous wreck, constantly qualifying yourself to her instead of making HER show you why she's worth a second date to you. Your time and attention are valuable, you know. If you don't believe that, then you are not ready to be dating yet. ;)

(And don't worry, SHE should be making YOU prove that YOU are a good catch too. I'm just putting it this way because I'm talking to you)

Good advice. :) No to mention that being put up on a pedestal and venerated makes a lot of women very uncomfortable. I went out with one guy in particular who did just that; he also spent inordinate amounts of time telling me about how much he understood me "as a woman," how he could relate to me "as a woman," etc. Even worse. I never did figure out if he ever once saw me as an individual human being, or as some fuzzy ideal of "woman."

Maybe don't even think of it as a "date" - mybe just think of it as getting together with someone you'd like to get to know better. Don't get all wound up in this sort of "relationship" mode - at least not until you've gotten to know each other a little better and seen if that's the way you'd want to go. Keep it casual at first.

James81
07-30-2008, 08:21 PM
But there needs to be some level of 'I'm interested in you', right? I mean, you might be paying off that house in small increments, but you make sure you're buying one you like. Or I'm going to be heading down that 'friends' route again. Which is apparently a bad thing.


Your "interest" on a first date is purely physical for the most part. I mean how else CAN it be when you don't even know her?

The whole POINT of dating is to GET TO KNOW someone to "qualify" them per se. This whole jazz of "getting to know someone" BEFORE you date them is kinda BS if you ask me. It's a prime way for a guy such as yourself to get friendzoned. ;)

(I don't mean that as a cut on you, but you freely admit to struggling with women. And you're definately not a lone there. I've been in your shoes and I STILL struggle with women, although my attitudes have changed and since they have changed I have become a lot more confident in who I am and a lot happier because I avoid those situations that used to give me grief.)

X900BattleGrape
08-01-2008, 05:50 AM
Fascinating thread and great discussion. I particularly liked the idea of watching something like Friends with the sound off etc.

On another "virtual" note I'd recomend checking out the MMO (Massively-Multiplayer Online) game Second Life (www.secondlife.com). It's free, and assuming you're computer / gaming literate enough to get around in the game it could be helpful. I do know that there is an "island" (big bit of land) with a section for people with Asperger's Syndrome and they they work in Second Life's virtual environment to learn more about body language, etc. etc. I don't know if there are either doctor's or people without AS that participate, but in any case it may be another tool to try on your journey.

Dawno
08-01-2008, 06:08 PM
This isn't really TIO material. Please read "Differences between TIO and OP"
(http://absolutewrite.com/forums/showthread.php?t=27607)

If you're blowing off steam about general life stuff, that goes in Office Party, too. Or if you're worried about a member, or there's something horrible in the news, etc. I know it may feel kind of funny posting serious things in "Office Party," but that is still the appropriate place for it.

Underline is mine - 'something [horrible] in the news' belongs on the Politics and Current Events board.

Thank you.

Moving to Office Party. Please fasten your seatbelts, and return your seatbacks and tray tables to their upright, locked positions.