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Myasandar
07-21-2008, 07:12 PM
I have a murder and I want it to be covered up or I want my m/c to try and cover it up... in my story.

Total newbie to crime writing and stuff so er... I need a Dummies guide.

The scenario:

A detective inspector's wife pushes a man down some steps in an alleyway somewhere. It's rather slippery out, she didn't push him hard but he slipped and fell. He didn't die when he got to the bottom so she gets hold of his head and gives it and extra smash until he does die.

The dead person comes from some other country, travelling under fake ID etc.

If he had been pushed only lightly, but slipped the rest of the way - maybe he had been in the process of turning around to his attacker and when she pushed him he slipped - how obvious would it be that he fell?

How soon would it be until they found out she'd given his head an extra smash? What other evidence would/could be lying around for forensics to find?

What is like - the proper order/method of investigating such a crime? Who would be at the scene and how many people?

What would they do when they find his ID is faked and they don't know who he is?

What are all the different departmenty type thingies called?

And a can anyone recommend me any good books and such as I may pop down the library tomorrow.

ajkjd01
07-21-2008, 07:53 PM
If he had been pushed only lightly, but slipped the rest of the way - maybe he had been in the process of turning around to his attacker and when she pushed him he slipped - how obvious would it be that he fell?

How soon would it be until they found out she'd given his head an extra smash? What other evidence would/could be lying around for forensics to find?

What is like - the proper order/method of investigating such a crime? Who would be at the scene and how many people?

What would they do when they find his ID is faked and they don't know who he is?

What are all the different departmenty type thingies called?

And a can anyone recommend me any good books and such as I may pop down the library tomorrow.

If they didn't realize the extra head smash on the scene, they'd likely figure it out in autopsy, factoring in the angles of where he had hit on the way down. The forensics guys would also be looking at any spatter or footprint or other evidence on the stairs to determine exactly where he hit to help with such a diagnosis.

Your best bet is to call your local police department and ask who investigates murders in your area. They can take you step by step through the process. Buy 'em dinner, or coffee, after their shift sometime, and they'd likely be happy to talk about it. And then you can write off the cost of dinner as a "business-related expense" for research. Give them your scenario, and walk it through with them. You'd be surprised at how much detail you can get that way. Oh, and take a tape recorder, get their permission, and tape the conversation. There's only so many notes you can take.

I see you're not in the US. For others out there who are, talk to your local chapter of Mystery Writers of America or Sisters in Crime as well. Outside the US, I don't know for sure which organizations those might be, but I'm sure they're out there. Sometimes they have guest speakers at their monthly meetings that might also be good contacts for ongoing questions.

I have a bachelor's degree in criminal justice, and have done some work as an investigator, but that's been a few years ago. My best advice is to seek out someone local to you with recent and on-going experience.

You could also call the local coroner's office and do the same thing.

C.F. Jackson
07-22-2008, 02:45 AM
Hello,

Interesting crime scene you've just
painted! ;o)

I new here, a quick introduction, I'm
C.F. Jackson. I've written a novel
centered around crime. It's my
education background, Criminal Justice.

Okay, I agree with the previous feedback.

You may have to tweek your crime scene
to make it realistic. Something to the fact
that your fallen character may have cut
the vein in his left arm that's tied to his
artery from his pen.

With the cut and awaiting the ambulance
he bleed to death. There's a vein in the
right arm that's connected to the heart
that's just as power as stabbing someone
in the heart. This is a slow yet quick death.

Also to add to it, he chokes on his own
blood from the ruptured artery.

My suggestion is add something else to the
scene to make realistic and this way the female
gets what she wants and she still is unsure
what the out will be. Other than waiting until
he chokes to death.

I hope you find value in what I've shared! ;o)

Continue to make this your day!

Won't Be Denied,
C.F. Jackson

Myasandar
07-22-2008, 03:49 AM
left arm that's tied to his
artery from his pen.

His pen?

Thanks for the advice - I know I should go to the local police station but...I'm too scared. :scared:

Horseshoes
07-22-2008, 06:57 AM
It is possible that her helping whack his head in will not be discovered, but for your purposes of wanting it to be revealed, it works fine, too.


You can give forensics some of her skin under his nails, or a bit of her camel hair coat with some of her dog's hair embedded in his glove or a minro cut on his hand...from him grabbing at her. You can give him a bruise from her kneeling on him, as his bruises should all be on bony prominences and body surfaces that would strike stair treads, edges, the wall/bannister and the landing. How soon they discover can be worked for your story purposes, too, to some degree. If you need a delay, you can have a lab guy out if it's a small enough locale, or another case backing up the autopsy for an extra day if you need her to fly town.

When they find he has fake ID, they check his prints, compare him to wanted and missing persons, check travel manifests, canvas the neighborhood and turn to the media for help in id'ing him. It is possible they never ID him, too, but that won't make it less a crime to assault him.

I'm not addressing who's at the scene and how many as my legal experience is all US and unless you say differently, I'm thinking your story is UK. It does impact your manning significantly whether your setting is big city, small town or rural, though, so be clear when you talk to your local that the setting is Xsize city/village/cow barn.

Check your law carefully, too. This little push may be manslaughter, especially depending on what she ever says about her intent.

Um, C,
Upper extremetiy anatomy and physiology gives bilateral symmetry--there is no vein in the right arm not mirrored in the left. Also, veins have lower pressure, oxygen depleted blood. Poking a pen into an arm vein just isn't going to be comparable to getting stabbed in the heart. Hard to imagine aspirated blood from an extremity bleed, so maybe the choking on blood scenario not such a realistic notion. I just dunno what a "slow yet quick" death means.

ajkjd01
07-22-2008, 04:02 PM
His pen?

Thanks for the advice - I know I should go to the local police station but...I'm too scared. :scared:

Don't be scared. You're giving another person a chance to be an expert at something they feel passionate about. And most homicide detectives and coroners are passionate about what they do. Many of them would enjoy a free cup of coffee or meal with the opportunity to talk about it.

Just like writers love to talk about writing...

RJK
07-22-2008, 06:03 PM
Here are some questions that need answering:

Is there reason for the police to think the fall is anything other than an accident? If not, the autopsy will be cursory and all the scenarios above would probably not take place.

Are there any witnesses lurking about?

Did the inspector's wife leave any physical evidence at the scene while she was pounding the man's head to pulp?

Unless there is someone available to confirm the identity of the body, the police will take fingerprints during the autopsy and run them through whatever automated system you have there in the UK. Unfortunately, they will get a 'no hit' because the man is from another country. This may set off some sort of investigation, but the woman may still be free of suspicion of murder.

I'm assuming you want to have the police investigate the crime, so instead of the woman just smashing his head to a pulp, have her choke the life out of him while she's smashing his head. They will definitely find the ligature marks around the throat.

Myasandar
07-22-2008, 10:01 PM
It is possible that her helping whack his head in will not be discovered, but for your purposes of wanting it to be revealed, it works fine, too.


You can give forensics some of her skin under his nails, or a bit of her camel hair coat with some of her dog's hair embedded in his glove or a minro cut on his hand...from him grabbing at her. You can give him a bruise from her kneeling on him, as his bruises should all be on bony prominences and body surfaces that would strike stair treads, edges, the wall/bannister and the landing. How soon they discover can be worked for your story purposes, too, to some degree. If you need a delay, you can have a lab guy out if it's a small enough locale, or another case backing up the autopsy for an extra day if you need her to fly town.

When they find he has fake ID, they check his prints, compare him to wanted and missing persons, check travel manifests, canvas the neighborhood and turn to the media for help in id'ing him. It is possible they never ID him, too, but that won't make it less a crime to assault him.

I'm not addressing who's at the scene and how many as my legal experience is all US and unless you say differently, I'm thinking your story is UK. It does impact your manning significantly whether your setting is big city, small town or rural, though, so be clear when you talk to your local that the setting is Xsize city/village/cow barn.

Check your law carefully, too. This little push may be manslaughter, especially depending on what she ever says about her intent.





Here are some questions that need answering:

Is there reason for the police to think the fall is anything other than an accident? If not, the autopsy will be cursory and all the scenarios above would probably not take place.

Are there any witnesses lurking about?

Did the inspector's wife leave any physical evidence at the scene while she was pounding the man's head to pulp?

Unless there is someone available to confirm the identity of the body, the police will take fingerprints during the autopsy and run them through whatever automated system you have there in the UK. Unfortunately, they will get a 'no hit' because the man is from another country. This may set off some sort of investigation, but the woman may still be free of suspicion of murder.

I'm assuming you want to have the police investigate the crime, so instead of the woman just smashing his head to a pulp, have her choke the life out of him while she's smashing his head. They will definitely find the ligature marks around the throat.

Thanks! But now I'm even more confused. >_<

I don't think the woman would spend the time choking him to death though. Smashing a head is one thing, but choking him is... well to me a little more... er murderous? She gives him a sharp push, he slips down the stairs and she gives him an extra whack and runs off in shock back to her hubby and confesses.

crimsonlaw
07-22-2008, 11:29 PM
One thing to determine too is the attitude of the police. If they are overworked or unappreciated, they won't do a thorough investigation. If the department cares more about budgets than solving crimes, they won't do a thorough investigation. If it happens on a weekend and the lead detective is called away from something important to him (family event/sporting event), they won't do a thorough investigation (happened in one of my cases in real life).

The victim will also determine how much work is put into it. A local successful business owner who is found dead will receive a better investigation than a local crack dealer found dead. Since your victim is a nobody in this town, that would likely impact the quality of the investigation.

This isn't to say that cops do poor work all the time or that they decide who deserves justice. In a perfect world, 90% of the detectives in this world would do everything the could to solve a crime. However, real life gets in the way too often.

Myasandar
07-23-2008, 12:07 AM
He's a somebody... actually so maybe that will make them do a closer investigation? (He's a somebody with a fake ID but they'll probably be able to find him I presume. Hmm... what happens when someone finds a dead body if it isn't an obvious murder?

RJK
07-23-2008, 05:37 PM
The all powerful 'It depends' As I said earlier, if it looks like an accident, the police will assume so unless thare are other facts, previous threats, known enemies, etc.

People die every day, some drop dead on the sidewalk, some slip on the stairs, some step in front of a bus, and some just don't wake from a night's sleep. The police don't assume that every one of them is a homicide. They have enough work to do investigating the obvious homicides.

dageezer
07-24-2008, 01:49 PM
What makes it "slippery out"? Rainy? Snowing? Oily/greasy?

C.F. Jackson
07-29-2008, 09:09 AM
His pen?

Thanks for the advice - I know I should go to the local police station but...I'm too scared. :scared:

It would be something of a sharp nature. This
is your plot, your character, and your crime
scene. ;)

So does your character typically carry a pen
in his blazer pocket? You know your charcter. :)

They'll uncover that it was forced sooner then
letter because of the positioning of the brain. The
character would have to use the victims hair to
create the momentum of the banging of the head
to ensure to leave no bruises.

This interesting!

You've receive a lot of feedback and great insight
from many here. You can implement any thing thus
far. Just keep it true to your plot and your characters.

Continue to make this your moment!

Won't Be Denied,
C.F. Jackson

C.F. Jackson
07-29-2008, 09:22 AM
Um, C,
Upper extremetiy anatomy and physiology gives bilateral symmetry--there is no vein in the right arm not mirrored in the left. Also, veins have lower pressure, oxygen depleted blood. Poking a pen into an arm vein just isn't going to be comparable to getting stabbed in the heart. Hard to imagine aspirated blood from an extremity bleed, so maybe the choking on blood scenario not such a realistic notion. I just dunno what a "slow yet quick" death means.

The next time you awaken, lock your fingers together
and placed the underneth the back your head.

Okay, look at your right arm around the bicep. You will
see your arm pulsating at the same beat / rate of your
heart. It's may be faint. It may depend on muscle and fat
ratio on the arm.

For me it's visiable in the morning. Don't know why. Give
it a college try.:)

Also, this I heard somewhere that really caught my attention.

Are you in the medical field?

Continue to make it happen!

Won't Be Denied,
C.F. Jackson

Jenifer
07-29-2008, 09:25 AM
Great suggestions here. :)

Simple approach: what if he fell half-way down the stairs only to lie there moaning... giving her the opportunity to whack his head against the edge of a step or the railing and then kick him the rest of the way down?

Then the dent in his head would more or less match a dent in the stairs... and maybe a bit of blood and hair would be in that dent... so until you were ready for the truth to come to light, it wouldn't be a huge leap for anyone to believe that he'd bashed his head in in the fall.