Writer's Catch-22

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Keith

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In Joe Heller's Catch-22 a pilot thinks he is crazy and wants to go home but can't because you have to be crazy to go home and if you're crazy you wouldn't have the sanity to request going home, or want to, catch-22.

I'm beginning to feel like there is a writers catch-22, in effect, at least in America. You have to get an agent in order to get published; you have to get published in order to get an agent. This is an oversimplification of course, however --- personally, I have been writing for 30-plus years have been published in 3 dozen, or more, publications and also, for the past maybe 2-3 years, several Internet publications, but this all seems very minor and trivial when I consider I can't find an agent who will even read a manuscript ...? As far as (big---book) publishers go, refer to above catch-22. So, then the question becomes why and am I really a writer?

I began writing poetry, then short stories and have completed four novels.

Does this make me a writer? Is it because I had a short story published in The Maryland Review and not the New Yorker or AIM Magazine, etc. and not Esquire, etc. that agents and/or publishers (one would be enough) are not flocking to my door. I have had (small) publishers request more of my writing and have been published more than once in several of these (small) publications. I guess the word small could be interchanged with the word insignificant as far as many (big, or should it be just bigger) publishers are concerned and, as far as agents are concerned, you got it, catch-22.

Writing is a very lonely profession and you can go crazy, as many writers have, so maybe I'm just going crazy, ah, there it is, I am going crazy, this letter is a bad sign then too, I can feel it. It's starting to make me feel almost as bad as when I write a query letter, I hate writing query letters; who likes getting rejected?

Wait a second, my wife has just come into my study and told me that I should stop writing this letter and stop writing query letters also, get back to writing stories and editing those I have already written, ah, but she is so much smarter than I am and so I'd better listen to her ... ah, she has also just suggested to me a way out of my predicament she has suggested I get a literary agent to ... ah ... but she is not a writer, my wife, ... catch-22.


Keith
 

maestrowork

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I'm beginning to feel like there is a writers catch-22, in effect, at least in America. You have to get an agent in order to get published; you have to get published in order to get an agent.

That's not true. Agents represent new writers all the time. Check around AW and you'll find these writers.

And you've already been published, so you're actually ahead in the game. Just focus on writing the novels, and submitting your best work. If you can't find an agent who will read your ms., perhaps you need to consider a) if the ms. is ready for prime time, or b) do you have a strong query.
 

Mumut

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You're so right and it can't have been like this a few years ago. I read a book written by a remote family member recently. It was published by a significant publisher but it was not well written as far as I'm concerned. Still, them's the breaks.
 

blacbird

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I'm beginning to feel like there is a writers catch-22, in effect, at least in America. You have to get an agent in order to get published; you have to get published in order to get an agent. This is an oversimplification of course, however --- personally, I have been writing for 30-plus years have been published in 3 dozen, or more, publications and also, for the past maybe 2-3 years, several Internet publications, but this all seems very minor and trivial when I consider I can't find an agent who will even read a manuscript ...?

Not news. This has been an established issue for a couple of decades now. I'm caught in it, and have no answer. And am pretty much ready to give it all up.

caw
 

blacbird

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That's not true. Agents represent new writers all the time. Check around AW and you'll find these writers.

And you've already been published, so you're actually ahead in the game. Just focus on writing the novels, and submitting your best work. If you can't find an agent who will read your ms., perhaps you need to consider a) if the ms. is ready for prime time, or b) do you have a strong query.

And if you can't meet either of those criteria, your work (and your chances) just plain suck. Speaking from personal experience.

caw
 

Toothpaste

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It's not easy. That's the plain and simple truth. I might have hit the lucky break with the writing, but my acting career . . .well let's not even go there. Point is, I kind of empathise . . . a lot. But just because it is damn difficult doesn't actually make that catch-22 statement of yours true. As Maestro already said, ask around here, you'll find proof on AW of how false your statement is.

Just because something is really really hard, and just because the business is pretty unfair in some ways (celebrities will always have doors open to them, that we lowly common folk will not), does not mean it is impossible, nor that the industry is out to get us.

You obviously have a lot of passion, and have had things published so you must be doing something right. That must give you some kind of confidence. Maybe it's just your query letter. Post it here in the Share Your Work section, I know Jim will be all too happy to tear it to shreds. He's evil like that. Maybe it's something else. I am in no position to say. I can tell you that of all my author friends, right now, I can't think of a one who had publishing credits before getting an agent. They all still got one.

It's not a catch-22. It really isn't. It's just . . . annoyingly difficult.
 
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maestrowork

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If it's not difficult it wouldn't really be worth it, right? There's no guarantee of success, but it's not catch-22 either. Perseverance is the key. And like Randy Pausch said:

Brick walls are there for a reason; they let us prove how badly we want something.
 

JamieFord

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Agents rep newbie writers all the time--as long as they have a book they think will sell. Short fiction pub creds are great, but they're not as relevant to an agent as they might have been 30 years ago. It's a tough biz. But don't give up.
 

Khazarkhum

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If it's not difficult it wouldn't really be worth it, right?

Oh, I'm not so sure about that. It's very easy to get a nice, cold beer. Are you really going to say a beer isn't worthwhile? :e2drunk:
 

Marian Perera

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I'm beginning to feel like there is a writers catch-22, in effect, at least in America. You have to get an agent in order to get published; you have to get published in order to get an agent.

I know several writers here who got good agents without being published before. So did I, though admittedly, that took me nine years from the time I first started writing novels <-- no AW at the time, made some newbie mistakes, getting better.

Oh, and it was my sixth novel which got the offer of representation. You've got two more to go to reach this. :)
 

Claudia Gray

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I was unpubbed when I got my agent, as was everyone I know who ultimately got an agent and became published. Any agent who is going around saying he/she will only handle previously published people is not somebody's who is actively looking for new clients, I'd think. And there are agents who definitely are seeking clients.
 

Sargentodiaz

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As I recommend AW on other forums, I'll recommend Query Tracker to you. Go though the Agent Listing and you'll see who wants what genres and you can link to their websites or other areas to see their credentials. Even better, you can use their data base to keep track of your queries.
 

regdog

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I don't think having an agent or being published "deems" you a writer. If you write, represented, published, or not you ARE a writer.

I think one of the problems making it so hard for writers to get an agent is the amount of books being written by pseudo-celebrities. The idea that because you are sort of kind of famous with the IQ of a houseplant qualifies you to write a book is silly and in my opinion making it harder for unknown authors with talent to be read.

Example-Britney and Jamie Lynn Spears mother writes a book on good parenting. One daughter is ordered to drug rehab and loses custody of her children and the other has a baby at 16. Sounds like their mother is WELL qualified to instruct others on how to parent.

:Soapbox:
 

maestrowork

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I don't think having an agent or being published "deems" you a writer. If you write, represented, published, or not you ARE a writer.

I think one of the problems making it so hard for writers to get an agent is the amount of books being written by pseudo-celebrities. The idea that because you are sort of kind of famous with the IQ of a houseplant qualifies you to write a book is silly and in my opinion making it harder for unknown authors with talent to be read.

Example-Britney and Jamie Lynn Spears mother writes a book on good parenting. One daughter is ordered to drug rehab and loses custody of her children and the other has a baby at 16. Sounds like their mother is WELL qualified to instruct others on how to parent.

:Soapbox:



Actually celebrity-penned books constitute a very small portion of books published every year, especially if you consider fiction only.

Seriously, it's something that unpublished writers want to use as an excuse -- the publishing world is against me! They only want named authors! The fact is unknown writers and first-time authors get representation and published every day.

The main problem that makes it hard for writers to get published or representation is that they don't know how to write a good book that has market potential -- that many people will want to read. They don't understand the craft. It has nothing to do with what "everyone else is doing."
 
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IceCreamEmpress

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Every writer was a first-time writer once. Yes, there are celebrity writers, but they're a tiny fraction of the market. Go to the "Sunshine Cafe" thread and you'll see success stories from first-time writers out the wazoo.
 

Clair Dickson

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Having short story publishing credits only shows that you can write short stories. Which is not BAD, but it does not mean that you can carry that same ability through to writing a WHOLE novel! (There are quite a few short story writers who never can write a solid novel.)

Plenty of agents take new authors. If they're NOT requesting partials or fulls from you, it may be because of your query. You can help that by sending along 3-5 sample pages (unless specifically directed not to). Many agents will read sample pages if the query isn't an automatic NO.

The key then, is to make sure your query has everything it's suppose to AND to make sure your first three to five pages grab the agent with strong writing and plot right from the get-go. Make them upset that, when they get to end of the sample, they don't have more to read!

If your novel isn't exciting and gripping (or similar appropriate phrases) from page one and in the query/ synopsis, then that's a whole seperate issue. Try a beta here or elsewhere. Give them first couple pages and the query explanation of your story-- do THEY want to keep reading?

Now, I could be wrong-- I've only got two partials in purgatory (for THREE WHOLE WEEKS! and five rejections so far.)
 

mirrorkisses

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In Joe Heller's Catch-22 a pilot thinks he is crazy and wants to go home but can't because you have to be crazy to go home and if you're crazy you wouldn't have the sanity to request going home, or want to, catch-22.

I'm beginning to feel like there is a writers catch-22, in effect, at least in America. You have to get an agent in order to get published; you have to get published in order to get an agent. This is an oversimplification of course, however --- personally, I have been writing for 30-plus years have been published in 3 dozen, or more, publications and also, for the past maybe 2-3 years, several Internet publications, but this all seems very minor and trivial when I consider I can't find an agent who will even read a manuscript ...? As far as (big---book) publishers go, refer to above catch-22. So, then the question becomes why and am I really a writer?

I began writing poetry, then short stories and have completed four novels.

Does this make me a writer? Is it because I had a short story published in The Maryland Review and not the New Yorker or AIM Magazine, etc. and not Esquire, etc. that agents and/or publishers (one would be enough) are not flocking to my door. I have had (small) publishers request more of my writing and have been published more than once in several of these (small) publications. I guess the word small could be interchanged with the word insignificant as far as many (big, or should it be just bigger) publishers are concerned and, as far as agents are concerned, you got it, catch-22.

Writing is a very lonely profession and you can go crazy, as many writers have, so maybe I'm just going crazy, ah, there it is, I am going crazy, this letter is a bad sign then too, I can feel it. It's starting to make me feel almost as bad as when I write a query letter, I hate writing query letters; who likes getting rejected?

Wait a second, my wife has just come into my study and told me that I should stop writing this letter and stop writing query letters also, get back to writing stories and editing those I have already written, ah, but she is so much smarter than I am and so I'd better listen to her ... ah, she has also just suggested to me a way out of my predicament she has suggested I get a literary agent to ... ah ... but she is not a writer, my wife, ... catch-22.


Keith

I don't understand where people have gotten this idea that you need to be published to get an agent, otherwise, you're SOL. Seriously, where has this idea come from??

You are a writer. It's a pretty broad term, and just like with artist, practically anyone can label themselves as so, but you have been published. So you actually have the right to call yourself a writer. Although I'm not sure why it matters, anyway. I think you should be happy with your small accomplishments.

Agents are not afraid of new authors. They're afraid of crappy writers. There are a lot of crappy writers out there, but there are a lot of new authors published every year. I think if you're really having a problem, maybe novels aren't the avenue for you. Maybe you're a better short story writer. I cant write short stories at all. I'm a novel writer.

Maybe you should try going to a conference, if you've never been to one. I met with two agents who requested partials from me, even though I'm unpublished. It shows that you can get chances without having previous work.
 

mirrorkisses

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I was unpubbed when I got my agent, as was everyone I know who ultimately got an agent and became published. Any agent who is going around saying he/she will only handle previously published people is not somebody's who is actively looking for new clients, I'd think. And there are agents who definitely are seeking clients.

Yeah, only TWO agents that I've looked up out of the list of twelve I've made so far don't take unsolicited queries. Those are good odds.
 

Clair Dickson

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Yeah, only TWO agents that I've looked up out of the list of twelve I've made so far don't take unsolicited queries. Those are good odds.

And that doesn't necessarily mean the agents don't take new writers! I was contacted by an agent who is listed as not taking unsolicited manuscripts. He thought I had a novel written (heh, not quite) and liked the character/ premise I'd been using in my short stories. He currently has a partial of my novel now that I've written it. And, in the novel-writing world, I'm considered a new writer.
 

maestrowork

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And that doesn't necessarily mean the agents don't take new writers! I was contacted by an agent who is listed as not taking unsolicited manuscripts. He thought I had a novel written (heh, not quite) and liked the character/ premise I'd been using in my short stories. He currently has a partial of my novel now that I've written it. And, in the novel-writing world, I'm considered a new writer.

Yip. What does "unsolicited manuscripts" have to do with "unpublished" writers anyway? All you need is a query -- and when the agent requests the material after reading your query, you're now "solicited." That's all it means.
 

mirrorkisses

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Yip. What does "unsolicited manuscripts" have to do with "unpublished" writers anyway? All you need is a query -- and when the agent requests the material after reading your query, you're now "solicited." That's all it means.

Well, unsolicited queries aren't accepted by these two agents. So they've got to somehow know about you and ask for your work.
 

mirrorkisses

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And if you can't meet either of those criteria, your work (and your chances) just plain suck. Speaking from personal experience.

caw

Well, no shit if you have a crappy query or manuscript no one wants to read further. No offense here, but you keep saying "personal experience," but far more people are encouraging this guy not to be so bleak about his prospects in publishing.
 
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