Anybody know anything about fencing?

WendyNYC · Jul 4, 2008

My 9-year-old daughter wants to start fencing. Ok, fine. So I call and get some information about classes. Along with lots of other information, they send me a waiver that says this:

I acknowledge that fencing has known and unanticipated risks which could result in physical or emotional injury,
paralysis, death, or damage to myself, to property, eliminated without jeopardizing the essential qualities of the
activity. The risks include, but are not limited to, among other things: being pierced through any part of the body,
partially or in the entirety, by metal weapons such as sabers, epees and foils

Gah! That sounds awful!

I've searched online, but I can't find much information about safety, except claims on fencing websites that it's a safe sport. What, except for all the impaling?

I have NO experience here. All I know is that most of the boys' schools in Manhattan offer fencing, and I suppose they wouldn't if it were terribly dangerous. Can anyone put my fears to rest?

ColoradoGuy · Jul 4, 2008

My college roommate was a varsity fencer. He never got hurt. Saber can be a bit wild, but foil is relatively controlled. They wear masks and protective clothing.

WendyNYC · Jul 4, 2008

I've heard that about saber. Some kid coming at her wielding a saber is kind of freaking me out.

Perhaps I should bubble-wrap her under her gear.

jennontheisland · Jul 4, 2008

LOL

The Man fenced for years as a kid and was never puntured. They use blunt blades and tip the swords at the end, in addition to all the protective gear.

Toothpaste · Jul 4, 2008

I wouldn't worry too much about it. These days unfortunately every activity that is undertaken must have a legal document signed that says, "If the person dies, we are not responsible." It's just a cover your a** in this day and age of lawsuits.

Fencing is very safe. Consider - there may be swords, but at least you aren't being tackled by large men, made to catch a small object flying at you at speeds faster than moving cars, racing around on knives and wielding large sticks at people's heads, or riding an animal that has a mind of its own and easily spooked by its own reflection. Point is, every sport has injuries. Yet most, especially at the beginner stage, are still very very safe. Aside from that, fencers wear padded outfits and masks.

Honestly, don't worry about it.

WendyNYC · Jul 4, 2008

Believe me, I don't feel any better when she rides horses. AND the kid just took up surfing for the summer.

I think her goal is to turn me into a neurotic mess. Oh wait. Too late.

ColoradoGuy · Jul 4, 2008

WendyNYC said:
Believe me, I don't feel any better when she rides horses. AND the kid just took up surfing for the summer.

I think her goal is to turn me into a neurotic mess. Oh wait. Too late.

I've ridden horses all my life, never been hurt. Neither has my daughter. Now, my wife . . .

Sophia · Jul 4, 2008

It is a safe sport. Not only do fencing weapons have rubber tips, but fencers wear padded jackets, padded gloves and face masks. Female fencers have plastic semi-circular 'cups' that go into pockets inside the jacket as additional protection for the breasts, and males get crotch protectors. Before fencers get to hack away at each other, they'll be instructed in how to hold their weapons and how to attack with them: they'll be shown how the rubber tip presses into them and how the foil (beginners will almost always use the foil, which is a thin, light weapon) curves up when a correct attack is made.

For a fencer to be impaled, the weapon would have to snap and the shard be thrust straight into them. I've never heard of it happening. I fenced for ten years at university, met players from around the country and coached many beginners, and I've never heard of anything worse than having a weapon strike you directly on your mask (leaving you feeling a bit jolted, but the mask doesn't cave in at all), hit on your toe causing the nail to break, or being covered in bruises. All of these have happened to me.

Ask the club that runs the classes about the age of their weapons, how they are kept and if they've ever had weapons break. They should be able to reassure you. It might help you to hold the weapons yourself, and feel what it is like to be hit. (And you could always try it, too! One of the great things about fencing is that it is so age-friendly, and the basics can be learnt quickly as a child or when retired. One of my coaches was in his fifties and had had heart surgery, but could still easily take part. Fencing is fun and is good for you.

)

I hope your daughter enjoys fencing. I found it a great way of not only keeping fit and living out my Highlander fantasies

, but it really boosted my self-confidence to be able to stand toe-to-toe with some cocky, looming bloke (I'm of slight build) and be able to forget the physical differences and discover my own natural advantages to out-move, out-think and out-fight them. It was a lot of fun, there was a lot of camaraderie with other fencers, and the bruises only boosted that sense of shared experience with your team-mates.

WendyNYC · Jul 4, 2008

Thanks, everyone. This is helpful. Yeah, I'm not worried about her being covered in bruises--she does a good job of that just playing at the playground.

Ok, I'll sign the waiver. But I had to at least do my homework. And perhaps I'll send my husband to her lessons.

triceretops · Jul 4, 2008

I took it in college and scored very high.

There's plenty of padding and protection, along with a good amount of discipline and safety instruction.

The problem lies when she/he is away from the instructor and fartin' around with friends, who start randomly swinging the foil around, neglecting to put on protection, which would be impossible since your child is the only one who has it. (provided she/he buys her own foil). The accidents almost always occur away from the studio or place of instruction. That's when the monitoring has to take place, especially from a parent's perspective. The foil or saber should be put away as you would a gun, and not taken out to display to friends or currious onlookers.

It is not a toy.

Tri

Smiling Ted · Jul 4, 2008

ElaraSophia said:
For a fencer to be impaled, the weapon would have to snap and the shard be thrust straight into them. I've never heard of it happening. I fenced for ten years at university, met players from around the country and coached many beginners, and I've never heard of anything worse than having a weapon strike you directly on your mask (leaving you feeling a bit jolted, but the mask doesn't cave in at all), hit on your toe causing the nail to break, or being covered in bruises. All of these have happened to me.

I heard of it happening once, but only once. "Freak accident" category.
I fenced sabre a bit in high school, and if I had a child, male or female, I wouldn't worry about them, as long as they had a good instructor and minded the safety rules.

I'd worry a lot more about horses, football, or riding a bike in NYC....

ErylRavenwell · Jul 5, 2008

Just a bit...damn if I remember the technical details though. Still, the body remembers just like with judo and kick-boxing and a couple of lethal savate and karate moves.

ErylRavenwell · Jul 5, 2008

being pierced through any part of the body,
partially or in the entirety, by metal weapons such as sabers, epees and foils

No it's not that dangerous.The training sword has a small metal ball fitted at the tips to avoid injuries. Of course there's slashing damage but the entire body is covered. I'd say it's safer than most sports.

Bartholomew · Jul 5, 2008

Generally speaking, fencing is a martial art made safe. You get big puffy pads and a wire face mask.

Still, go check the place out in person before hand.

Joe270 · Jul 6, 2008

Check on the stats for injury. I'd imagine that they are very, very low.

Diving gets a bad rap because the press always shows people hitting the board. It actually happens very rarely. In the sixties, pools weren't built properly for diving and lots of serious injuries and deaths occurred. The insurance rates went through the roof, and diving boards vanished across the country.

It is really tragic, because there is lots of college scholarship money out there going to foreign college students. The US just doesn't have enough qualified High School divers to fill the need. So all those scholarships go to Europeans and Canadians.

Yes, Canadians. The land of ice hockey and curling is smart enough to build indoor diving wells so their children have the opportunity to get a free education. But the US can't do that, no.

Sorry. I went off on a rant for a bit.

Check out gymnastics and cheer leading, two sports predominantly populated by girls and see how many bad injuries, paralyzed for life sort of injuries, occur every year.

But parents keep flooding the gyms with their little darlings.

I'm not negative on gymnastics or cheer leading, quite the contrary, but I don't understand why no one cares a whit about injuries in those sports while other sports like diving and fencing get a bum rap and insurance rates which just about kill the sports.

WendyNYC · Jul 6, 2008

Joe270 said:
Check out gymnastics and cheer leading, two sports predominantly populated by girls and see how many bad injuries, paralyzed for life sort of injuries, occur every year.

But parents keep flooding the gyms with their little darlings.

I'm not negative on gymnastics or cheer leading, quite the contrary, but I don't understand why no one cares a whit about injuries in those sports while other sports like diving and fencing get a bum rap and insurance rates which just about kill the sports.

I did gymnastics as a kid and I can attest to the high rate of injuries. I broke my wrist and had numerous bad sprains before I was 12 years old. Actually, I wasn't so concerned about fencing until I read the release form, when I promptly got a visual image of a room full of impaled children. An overactive imagination is not so wonderful sometimes when you are a nervous mother.

But then again, they probably have similar wording for kids signing up for gymnastics these days, too.

WriteKnight · Jul 6, 2008

Yes, I know something about fencing. I'm a trained/certified Classical Master of Arms.

Yes, it CAN be dangerous - like absolutely any sport. Yes, broken blades CAN pierce the jackets and masks, but as stated, these are extremely rare, and tend to happen at higher levels of fencing when greater speed and force is exerted.

Don't buy any equipment until she finished the beginners course. It's a big investment - should she decide it's not for her, no sense in spending the money.

She will most likely start with foil. (How old is she?)

WendyNYC · Jul 6, 2008

She'll be 9 in a few weeks. The club I'm considering has a beginner's package where they provide the equipment. You are right--I don't want to buy all that equipment before I know she likes it.

WriteKnight · Jul 6, 2008

AH, nine or ten is about as young as I'd recommend starting them. Classical fencing would be perfect for her - no electric equipment.

It takes a LOT of discipline to get good at fencing. Most young children are a little upset/bored at 'practicing the scales' - they want to play a concerto right away!

WendyNYC · Jul 6, 2008

She's pretty disciplined and methodical by nature. She's played the cello for three years and swims drills, drills, drills for her swim team. I'm more concerned about her possibly being the only girl in class and not liking that much. She says it's not a problem. We'll see.

WriteKnight · Jul 6, 2008

I doubt she will be the only girl. IN fact, back when I was actively teaching and coaching at the University level, it was the women's teams who got all the funding - part of the Title IX development. Universities had to spend 'equally' on womens sports and mens - so lots of Universites dumped money into their women's fencing programs. In fact, in terms of International Competitions, the U.S. women's teams are usually more 'successfull' than the men's.

At least 'back in my day'. I'm not actively teaching any more.

Cthulhu · Jul 6, 2008

WendyNYC said:
I don't want to buy all that equipment before I know she likes it.

Just stressing this point, even though you've already agreed...

I fenced for a year and decided that it wasn't for me at the time/place and still have my mask, foil, and glove sitting up in my bedroom unused for four years now. While it's still fun to get it out and just mess around and see how well I can remember form and the handful of things I actually learned, not really worth the investment my parents made on my behalf.

Smiling Ted · Jul 6, 2008

WendyNYC said:
She's pretty disciplined and methodical by nature. She's played the cello for three years and swims drills, drills, drills for her swim team. I'm more concerned about her possibly being the only girl in class and not liking that much. She says it's not a problem. We'll see.

The great thing about fencing is that there are no inherent advantages for weight or upper body strength. There's no reason girls can't whip guys...although when I did it (years and years ago) women's fencing was restricted to foil; there was no women's sabre or epee on the collegiate or Olympic level.

I think she'll have female classmates.

slcboston · Jul 6, 2008

Ahh... the dreaded "Accident, injury, and/or death form." I know it well.

School picnic coming up? Sign the form.

Want to play a sport? Sign the form.

Going on a trip? Sign the form.

Staying huddled in a corner, too afraid to *ever* come out again because it seems like *everything* you do can lead to "accident, injury, and/or death?"...

... You still need to sign the form.

Joe270 · Jul 6, 2008

Just to put it into perspective, isn't the drive back and forth from the practices more dangerous than the sport itself?

Anybody know anything about fencing?

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