Areligious writing

veinglory

volitare nequeo
Self-Ban
Registered
Joined
Feb 12, 2005
Messages
28,750
Reaction score
2,933
Location
right here
Website
www.veinglory.com
It seems to me that these days most fiction writing is areligious. That is there is not particular reason to know if the author is religious, althought the characers may or may not be. Or is this just because of the genres I choose to read?

It seems to me that so long as this remains the norm, the need for specifically non-theistic writing may well be rather limited. Just food for thought....
 

Zoombie

Dragon of the Multiverse
Super Member
Registered
Joined
Dec 24, 2006
Messages
40,775
Reaction score
5,947
Location
Some personalized demiplane
I've noticed this as well...but I think it's cause religion is a non-issue in the genera I read (sci-fi and fantasy)

Well, at least, sometimes it is. Sometimes it is the issue. Depends, I say.
 

AMCrenshaw

...
Super Member
Registered
Joined
Mar 26, 2008
Messages
4,671
Reaction score
620
Website
dfnovellas.wordpress.com
I think that is the novel in general. It's mode is not grand, so to speak. It generically deals in a set of perspectives (human ones usually!) and it's scope is limited.

The morals, if there are any, are centered on the human condition. It might be even more appropriate to say that few novels assert a moral at all, but a glimpse of truth.

But.

A lot of books I read make me wonder what the author's religion is. Cormac McCarthy, for example. David Lindsay another. Ursula LeGuin.

At the same time, a lot of SF/F/Horror I read doesn't allow me to care. Either because there is no depth to the stuff I read (which makes it no less fun or interesting), or because the story just doesn't deal with issues of CHRISTIAN VIRTUE and PROPHECY and THE RAPTURE and GOD GOD GOD. Even while Epic in scope, a lot of these narratives are still centered on humanity.

AMC
 

WmHopper

Super Member
Registered
Joined
Jun 28, 2008
Messages
65
Reaction score
3
Hi. This is my first post ever on this site (having finally worked out my registration).
I am the author of The Heathen's Guide to World Religions (non-fiction, currently in its seventh edition.)

I am currently working on a fiction that was supposed to be non-theistic, but it turns out that this is rather difficult to do and still be 1. Entertaining and 2. Marketable. Let's face it... religion sells.

Anyway, that is my two cents worth.
 

veinglory

volitare nequeo
Self-Ban
Registered
Joined
Feb 12, 2005
Messages
28,750
Reaction score
2,933
Location
right here
Website
www.veinglory.com
Your first book sounds interesting. Please feel free to start a thread here to tell use more about why you wrote it etc.

Personally, in starting my thread I was pointg to the way that most fiction does not seem to have a religious tone to it. Character may be religious, or not, or it isnlt mentioned. But very few fiction outside of the inspirational section and Christian books stores seem to imply that the reader should be religious.

p.s. in my experience, sex sells better :)

p.p.s welcome to the forums
 

jillbrenna

Registered
Joined
Jun 18, 2008
Messages
27
Reaction score
3
WmHopper, I second that notion: I'd love to learn more about what your book covers, as well as why you wrote it and from what perspective. It sounds fascinating. I'm about to go Google it. LOL.

My question to add to this thread is: If we bring in religious and nonreligious characters, let them have some conflict to work out their issues with each other (the nonreligious' issues with the religious more, in my work), is this bound to turn somebody off from our work? I had this question roiling about in my brain without the words to ask it yet, and got one interesting answer via PM on this forum before I even realized that was the question I wanted to ask (thank you!, thank you!, you know who you are!) ... the answer was, if the character has been "through enough", people would be more sensitive to the way the character rejects religion.

I don't want to "turn off" Christians to my writing because it's atheistic: more than that, I want them to get to thinking, because I think everyone knows people that have rejected religion and are really wonderful people; I want to kind of bring that issue up to the forefront and kind of make people confront it and think about it.

Will this be a turn-off, or can we give it a soft enough treatment that it comes across "right" and gets people thinking?

Thanks for this forum: I really appreciate the opportunity to think through (write through) these issues (because isn't that how writers think best?!)

Jill B.
 

Cathy C

Ooo! Shiny new cover!
Kind Benefactor
Absolute Sage
Super Member
Registered
Joined
Jun 5, 2005
Messages
9,907
Reaction score
1,834
Location
Hiding in my writing cave
Website
www.cathyclamp.com
One of the ways I deal with this in our books is to re-introduce "dead" religions (often the precursors to recent ones) that the characters can then hash out at length without offending many people. By making many of my shapeshifter characters very long-lived, they have the opportunity to have watched a number of religions rise and fall and tend to stay out of the fray, except to watch and comment. They can talk to the pluses and minuses of each one without getting embroiled in the emotions of it.

There's also the method of creating a brand new religion that has many of the same aspects as current ones, but with a different feel. Take Dune, for example. All the elements were there of a real religious war that resembled, in many ways, the Muslim/Jewish conflict, along with a smattering of Scientology and other things. I saw a lot of commentary that wasn't anti-religion, precisely. It was Areligious through the eyes of the protagonist, who was struggling to find himself within the various pressures from the various groups. Eventually, he went his own way and became something new.

If that same story was told not from his present, but at a future time when his religion was the only one in the universe, the story would have wound up quite different, I think. :)
 

Ruv Draba

Banned
Joined
Dec 29, 2007
Messages
5,114
Reaction score
1,322
It seems to me that these days most fiction writing is areligious. That is there is not particular reason to know if the author is religious, althought the characers may or may not be. Or is this just because of the genres I choose to read?

It accords with my impressions too, Vein. Unless the author is actively promoting the value of religion to one of the characters, or writing religious allegory or fables, or poking holes at a religious institution or some school of religious thought, it can be hard to tell what sort of spirituality a writer has. Le Guin, for instance, is an atheist who writes about gods, and a lot of her fiction is spiritual. An author like Julian May is passionately Catholic, but it might take three or four of her books to realise that.

Over all, I notice a few trends appearing:
  • The power of churches is waning. Communal religious faith(something you act on), is increasingly becoming solitary religious belief (some form of opinion with some supernatural hope attached - making it akin to superstition). In consequence I think that we see a lot of fiction in which traditional religions play very little part;
  • Markets for religious music, fiction have become speciality markets. The practice of mainstream fiction pushing strongly religious or atheistic messages seems to have ebbed since the mid-20th century. Writers now specialise, and readers hunt for gospel and other spiritual messages on specific shelves;
  • It's now considered rude to lampoon religion in fiction - though still okay to critique it in non-fiction. I attribute this to political correctness, and perhaps an upsurge in some forms of fundamentalism. People can't discern critique and disagreement from hatred, which is a bit disturbing.
It seems to me that so long as this remains the norm, the need for specifically non-theistic writing may well be rather limited. Just food for thought....

What does this mean for non-theistic spiritual writing? Well I think it's a mixed message.

On the one hand, there's still plenty of non-theistic New Age writing around, and people are still sucking it down. But if you find New Age thinking murky, fatuous and self-serving (as I do), then that may not help you much.

There might be a small market for soft religious lampooning still, but I don't know of an English-speaking market for really biting religious satire the way we saw in the mid-20th century, say. I'd look to countries in South America, Asia and the Middle East for that sort of writing. They probably have the most to say about what religion is doing to their societies right now - and how they need it to behave.

In the English-speaking countries, non-theists might have run out of much to say about religion (and if we do say it, it might be better presented in non-fiction more than fiction). But we are nevertheless faced with a huge array of complex global social issues that require examination from diverse humanitarian perspectives, and this is perhaps where we should turn our attention.

Among these I'd include environment, immigration, trade equity, human trafficking, child warriors, euthanasia, fertility management, gene technologies, carbon trading, food trading, housing, water management, education, information and privacy management, wealth sharing and the shape and destiny of human families and parenting.

Religion is floundering with many of these issues. We have religions preaching to poor people to avoid contraception, who are now looking at calling carbon emission 'sinful', who are preventing affluent gay couples from adopting poor children, and who are teaching poor sick people to pray for healing when they could be helping to build medical insurance infrastructure, who are teaching poor people that you can pray for wealth, rather than educating them in how wealth is built.

They're trying to frame complex social problems and sweeping social change in terms of superstition and ancient, punitive moral codes and it's just not working.

Meanwhile areligious fiction largely sensationalises these issues - turning them into blockbuster movie scripts - and non-fiction presents dry scientific and social policy perspectives that give us very little wisdom on what to do and how to help.

Is there room for a non-theistic spiritual perspective on the above topics? I think that there should be - even must be! However, it requires us to lift our heads out of worrying about who's knocking at our front door, what's on 4am TV, or what it says in the Book of Revelations.
 
Last edited:

t0neg0d

Super Member
Registered
Joined
May 23, 2008
Messages
432
Reaction score
50
Location
Seattle--until they make me leave
It seems to me that these days most fiction writing is areligious. That is there is not particular reason to know if the author is religious, althought the characers may or may not be. Or is this just because of the genres I choose to read?

It seems to me that so long as this remains the norm, the need for specifically non-theistic writing may well be rather limited. Just food for thought....

I am not sure how to answer this question, buuuuuuut... a lot of the reason I explore so many different religions is to bring some manner of realism to my characters. Usually, a belief in God (or a belief in no God) plays a major role in who someone is, what they do and why they do it. If a book is written well, you shouldn't feel like you know the author at all--especially not well enough to guess their religious beliefs.

Actually, I can't think of a single instance where I have ever cared. Odd. Thinking a little more about it... and the truth is literature (unless the intent of the book is to share your views) isn't really a platform to share your views. Right, right... we are talking fiction here. Fiction is definitely not a platform to preach from, so wouldn't it make sense that most authors are familiar with the concept of 'author intrusion' and steer away from it?
 
Last edited:

zornhau

Swordsman
Super Member
Registered
Joined
Feb 21, 2005
Messages
1,491
Reaction score
167
Location
Scotland
Website
www.livejournal.com
It seems to me that these days most fiction writing is areligious. That is there is not particular reason to know if the author is religious, althought the characers may or may not be. Or is this just because of the genres I choose to read?

It seems to me that so long as this remains the norm, the need for specifically non-theistic writing may well be rather limited. Just food for thought....

I think it's brilliant that it's religious/inspirational fiction that wallows in a ghetto of its own making, while a-religious fiction is the norm.

However, I've noticed that certain religious assumptions and value judgements seem to be implicit in some non-hard SF I've read. I also suspect that atheists are more understanding in out characterisation of theists than the other way around, perhaps because we need to find ways of respecting people who believe unlikely things, whereas they can run off to their church social.

So, I think there's a need for areligious writers, rather than for a specific genre.