I'm so stupid and I'm really sorry

BlueLucario · Jun 26, 2008

Note to the MODS: Please let me know if this is the wrong place for this post. Feel free to move it.

It was until last night I realized what I've done. It may seem that I'm not taking other people's advice or that I'm not serious about my writing. I know you were all frustrated with me and reading my posts seems like a waste of time. I'm really trying to improve my writing. Some of you didn't like my characters, I will admit that it did hurt, but only because I worked so hard on making my characters likeable and all my attempts failed. I believe I know why this was going on.

I'm having some freakish closeness to my main character. She's been in my head for six years, and kept her in there out of fear of being laughed at. I was only 12 when I first wrote that story, and back then Lily wasn't even a main character, she was a villain, just helping the main character for her own goals. I tend to make the same character the same age as me. I make my main characters girls, I don't know why. It was then when I wrote this story, I started to like her a lot.

For six years I've been role playing. And pretending to be my MC. What's life like for her? What's going on inside her head? Trying to be one with the character, was really fun, and made making characterization seem so easy.

I didn't realize until last night that roleplaying has a lot of serious risks. Like a freakish closeness to the character, addiction to feedback that I could never shake off, and a sense of hurt if one person never liked the character or the story. I'm trying to make my writing really cool. I wanted to put the readers at the edge of my seats. I showed a lot of people my writing so they could read it and like it. This roleplaying led to my obsession about the story.

I know why I've been like this. Driving everybody nuts, and I'm very sorry. I didn;t think this would happen. I didn't know why I was seeking everyone's approval, maybe I was afraid of doing something I could regret.

I'm not asking for sympathy or pity, just telling you all how stupid I was. Right now I can't think straight anymore. And because of my mistakes, I don't know if finishing the book is even worth it.

Thank you for listening.
Cindy.

Mr Flibble · Jun 26, 2008

Blue, calm down

I didn't realize until last night that roleplaying has a lot of serious risks.

Then I'm screwed!

If you didn't roleplay at all, you'd never get under the skin of your character. I live as my character's all the time while I'm writing, and often . I fall in love with the guys ( well some of them) and I am the girls. If I didn't my characterisation would be pathetic.

It's not the roleplaying I don't think. You're maybe just frustrated because your writing isn't coming out as you would like. Believe me, I know what that is like. You just have to keep writing, keep learning, and one day it'll all come together for you.

addiction to feedback that I could never shake off, and a sense of hurt if one person never liked the character or the story.

Sadly this is all part of the thick skin you'll need to develop. You can do it, it'll just take time.

You're not stupid, and I know you're serious about your writing. I think you just need to calm yourself and think more clearly. You have plenty of time ahead of you to learn all the things you want to to make your writing as you want it to be. You can't learn it all at once, and you shouldn't try. Just go at your own pace, and don't be too hard on yourself.

k?

Kalyke · Jun 26, 2008

When you are in a "mixed" sort of conversation with people of various ages, interests, and skill levels, you are going to get "the lecture" every once in a while. About advice-- it is filled with special interests, personal preferences, and prejudices. When you take advice, you filter out the good stuff. You wait to see if several people say the same thing. Making every suggested change is impossible.

Phaeal · Jun 26, 2008

You're young, you're learning, you've achieved a valuable insight about your character. It could be you need to work on something else for a while, to get some critical distance from the story you've worried for so long.

Above all, patience, patience. Art is long.

Mr. Anonymous · Jun 26, 2008

relax... Like idiots said, roleplaying is necessary to get a feel for the character.

Do you honestly think you're the only one who would feel hurt if readers didn't like your characters? Think again.

And one thing I DO want to emphasize is that a character does NOT have to be likable. Dostoevsy's narrator in his Underground is one of the nastiest, most petty, obsessive, least sympathetic characters I've ever come across, with virtually no redeeming qualities. And yet, as a character, even though he is not necessarily likable, he is amazingly well drawn. Joe Abercrombie's The First Law series features an arrogant prick of a nobleman (he gets better eventually, but still), a psychopathic barbarian with a split personality disorder, a hypocritical torturer, a power-hungry mage manipulating an entire country from behind the scenes, his spineless, unremarkable apprentice, etc.

One of my beta readers mentioned to me that she felt like one of my characters was an "arrogant jerk." Am I upset she didn't find something to like in him? Sure. But a character has to be pretty well developed in order to evoke that kind of a strong response from someone anyway, so I also took it as a compliment of sorts.

And also remember that everyone has different opinions. One person might love a character, while another might not. Holden Caulfield is a great example of that. I'll bet you half the people on this board loved him, and the other half thought he was a whiny little ____. Basically what I'm getting at is, this is a very subjective business. That doesn't mean you should reject comments/suggestions. But never take an individual's opinion as the sole truth.

Williebee · Jun 26, 2008

Blue- relax. cut yourself a break. I'll tell you what. I'll give you six words for free that, if you think about them, will take the pressure off, - whether it be from worrying about people liking your writing, or laughing at your jokes, or trying to sell somebody a rock.

Six words:

Some will. Some won't. So what?

Now, get back to work.

BlueLucario · Jun 26, 2008

I do know that some people love my story, and some can't seem to get enough of it. I have read novels like everyone was telling me to. The characters were great, and I wonder how each author did it. I love their writing styles, and I instantly fall in love with it and wonder why I couldn't be like them?

I could write about something else. I was going to finish the book, and then during NaNo, I can write book two of the series. I want to write a series, because I have so many ideas and there's no room for all of them in one book.

and I want to thank anyone who had been patient with me since I got here.

sheadakota · Jun 26, 2008

Blue, what everyone else said plus this;

Write for yourself first- If it makes you happy- then the rest is just icing.

I understand the addicition to feedback, we have all been there, use what you can, ditch the rest- It is your story, your words, your world- NEVER forget that.

You don't need our approval, just your own.

CaroGirl · Jun 26, 2008

What you need to understand is that everyone approaches writing from a different standpoint, with different motivations and methods. What works for one writer won't work for another. I don't outline, others swear by it. I don't role-play with my characters, others do. It's like acting. Some believe in method acting (off-stage role-playing) others don't.

You vacillate in your methods according to what others do, or what others tell you to do. Stop doing that, find what works for you, do it, and don't apologize for it. You don't need to be in everyone else's head and, frankly, we don't need to be in yours for every decision you make and every thought that comes into your head.

Work it out. Write.

Toothpaste · Jun 26, 2008

Aw Blue, every several weeks you write to apologise to us! It's really not necessary! I know you are going through a real emotional rollercoaster ride since you came here. You've learned so much in a short time, and you get so excited by the things you learn (which is really special, and you should honour)! Just don't get down on yourself every time you try a new thing and it doesn't work right away. Very few of us can be perfect right away. I'd venture to say none of us can be perfect full stop. If something doesn't work, you just try again. It isn't a sign that you should stop. It isn't meaningful. It simply means you have to try again.

Writing is wonderful. You can take as much or as little time with it as you wish (unless of course you have a deadline, but that's different). There is no timeline when someone has to have their first book published. Or even finish their first book. We impose so much pressure on ourselves, but that's all it is. Us. Our own pressure. No one else.

Write. Keep writing. And keep trying. You'll be fine hon.

(and please please please stop thinking yourself as weird in the way you write, or your relationships with your characters, we've ALL been there hon, some of us are still there, in the arts . . . we're all weirdos!

)

drachin8 · Jun 26, 2008

BlueLucario said:
I do know that some people love my story, and some can't seem to get enough of it. I have read novels like everyone was telling me to. The characters were great, and I wonder how each author did it. I love their writing styles, and I instantly fall in love with it and wonder why I couldn't be like them?

I do that sometimes also, and it is killer on the ego. But then I have to remind myself that I will never be able to achieve beauty in my own writing if I give up now. It is a life-long learning process. Emphasis on "life-long". There is never a point at which you look at yourself in the mirror and say, "I am now the most awesome writer in the entire world and know everything there is to know." So keep studying the techniques of other writers and KEEP WRITING your own things so that YOUR voice and style will develop.

-Michelle

IceCreamEmpress · Jun 26, 2008

No need to apologize, Blue. Learning is hard, and sometimes painful. You are learning a lot very quickly, it seems to me, and that's going to be uncomfortable every now and then. I see you working hard, and that's what's important.

Cranky · Jun 26, 2008

IceCreamEmpress said:
No need to apologize, Blue. Learning is hard, and sometimes painful. You are learning a lot very quickly, it seems to me, and that's going to be uncomfortable every now and then. I see you working hard, and that's what's important.

What she said. Just keep on writing, Blue.

Quossum · Jun 26, 2008

Everyone should be sure to have some betas you're pretty sure will love your work (for me, my sister), so that you'll have some warm fuzzies, and then let the really critically perceptive ones have at.

You can learn so much from those critical reviews, but remember, you don't have to use every tip they give you. If you're like me, some suggestions, even harsh ones, will resonate internally, and you'll "know" they're right, sometimes to your heartbreak. Others won't. Some suggestions you might not be ready for yet. No big deal.

Write for yourself first, then worry about marketability IF you want to. Or have a story that's totally yours, and then others that you want to let free on the world.

Main thing is, keep writing!

Good luck!
--Q

Lady Cat · Jun 26, 2008

"Never give up - never surrender!" ~GalaxyQuest

Keep writing. And write in whatever manner you feel comfortable with.

Feedback is like parenting advice, listen to it all with a smile on your face and then do what feels right to you.

I've never tried to role-play with my characters, but I've often wished I could be them. They lead much more interesting lives than I do!

HeronW · Jun 26, 2008

Whoa, easy Cindy, don't beat yourself over the head. If we didn't believe in our characters--and make them real--no one else would care. Much of what we know and feel about them never gets on the page.

My MC started as an RP character--my first and likely last time, in a Boy Scout camp in New Jersey about 15 years ago in a cold wet March. I had a blast, worked her into a story then into other adventures, made her have a family, talents, vices, anger, grief, wise-ass remarks.

Yes, you do put yourself into every 3D character, the good, the bad, the ugly, the evil, it's natural, it makes us better writers and lets us go places safely that we wouldn't otherwise do in our normal boring lives.

So--be gentle with yourself, write what you love and want to know about, and do not ever give up.

BlueLucario · Jun 26, 2008

Wow, thank you everyone. I'm surprised everyone's nice.

All of this over a Mary-sue test. Most of the questions on there are completely ridiculous. Like, is your character a woman who has achieve something only men did during their time period? Or Do you sometimes roleplay your character? I selected yes, and I thought that it was no big deal.

Mr Flibble · Jun 26, 2008

Or Do you sometimes roleplay your character?

That's not a 'is this a Mary Sue' question, it's an 'are you a closet geek' question.

Geeks are all the really interesting people, so be proud!

stormie · Jun 26, 2008

Hey, Blue (Cindy)! You realize what you were doing, now use that to see where you're going. Does that make sense?!

BlueLucario · Jun 26, 2008

stormie said:
Hey, Blue (Cindy)! You realize what you were doing, now use that to see where you're going. Does that make sense?!

Huh?
*scratches head*

Yeah, but what I did really got people irritated. They give me great advice, and when I run out of options I freak out, making it hard to read their posts objectively. Making me too afraid to listen. That made me feel bad, not the roleplaying.

stormie · Jun 26, 2008

BlueLucario said:
Yeah, but what I did really got people irritated. They give me great advice, and when I run out of options I freak out, making it hard to read their posts objectively. Making me too afraid to listen. That made me feel bad, not the roleplaying.

Okay, so you know that now; that you were afraid to listen. You got people irritated. Now change that. Don't be afraid to listen. Step back and reread others' posts objectively. You might have to take a deep breath and respond the next day.

mscelina · Jun 26, 2008

Cindy,

Just relax. You are a young, and as such, treasured member of these boards. Sometimes, if you ask the same question you've already asked before, some of us get annoyed. *shrug* They get annoyed with me too. It's no biggie. Some of us don't have time to read every thread and so we pick and choose.

You are learning. That's primarily why this board is here. And no need to apologize for being what you are: a young writer with lots of questions and a driving need to KNOW.

Now, get back to work.

Danger Jane · Jun 26, 2008

BlueLucario said:
Wow, thank you everyone. I'm surprised everyone's nice. All of this over a Mary-sue test. Most of the questions on there are completely ridiculous. Like, is your character a woman who has achieve something only men did during their time period? Or Do you sometimes roleplay your character? I selected yes, and I thought that it was no big deal.

Discovering your beloved character is a high-scoring Sue is pretty upsetting. Happened to me when I was fifteen, and she scored an incredible 126. I was pissed. I was rationalizing why the hundred boxes I had checked didn't mean she was a cliche.

Within a week, I realized that yes, they did mean she was a cliche, because I had checked off not ten, not fifteen, not twenty-five boxes, but over a hundred. I looked long and hard over that particular story, realized it was nowhere near salvageable, and started something new. It's rare for a character of mine to score above ten on the Mary Sue litmus test anymore.

I'm not saying by any means that you ought to trash your story. Just look at it carefully. You are learning a lot, like others have said, and very quickly. Your brain needs some time to process it all. You'll be fine.

And like Toothpaste said--don't think you're weird in how you write! You're not. Trust all of us artsy weirdos.

BlueLucario · Jun 26, 2008

Danger Jane said:
Discovering your beloved character is a high-scoring Sue is pretty upsetting. Happened to me when I was fifteen, and she scored an incredible 126. I was pissed. I was rationalizing why the hundred boxes I had checked didn't mean she was a cliche.

And like Toothpaste said--don't think you're weird in how you write! You're not. Trust all of us artsy weirdos.

If anyone wants to know I scored a 30. It's just that this Mary-sue test questions are a bit ridiculous. And the topic itself is ridiculous. I don't care if my character is a sue, if my story's written well, then why should I worry. Harry Potter made it big, so why can't I?

stormie · Jun 26, 2008

Danger Jane said:
And like Toothpaste said--don't think you're weird in how you write! You're not. Trust all of us artsy weirdos.

Yep. But I'm a very artsy weirdo. And proud of it.

I'm so stupid and I'm really sorry

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Whatever I did, I didn't do it.

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