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Jenan Mac
06-24-2008, 08:06 PM
My MC is a hunter (probably gun, not bow, though that could change if it fit the story) whose family owns a couple hundred acres, partly forested. And though he's basically a law-abiding-to-the-point-of-freakishness type, he isn't really picky about when he hunts, figuring it's his family's land, and no one can tell him what to do with his deer/turkeys/what have you.

OTOH, he gets the "steward of the land" stuff, and doesn't want to deplete the population by being stupid.

I know nothing about hunting, and he's about to meet the wrong deer.
Help?

veinglory
06-24-2008, 08:10 PM
Sounds interesting. Help with what aspect of this?

auntybug
06-24-2008, 08:12 PM
What is it you're wanting him to do - not do? I hate hunting but its all around me. We live next to a 160 acre forest - Turkeys...deer... always somebody killing something.

What do you mean wrong deer? You can get a Doe lisc...

Hubby has a bow lisc - he can get anything with it. (referring to lisc - not his aim ;) )

Sarpedon
06-24-2008, 08:13 PM
The wrong deer? Will he end up like king Pandu? (who killed a buck deer while it was attempting to copulate with a female deer, only to discover that it was actually a semi-divine being who happened to take a fancy to a lady deer, and which cursed him to die if he ever made love to a woman)

Or does the deer just beat the shit out of him, like that one darwin award candidate who attempted to capture a live deer with a rope, only to discover that deer are much stronger than people are?

johnnysannie
06-24-2008, 08:53 PM
Explain what you mean by "he's about to meet the wrong deer".

Do you mean he is going to be attacked by a deer?

If so, that is pretty rare although not impossible. Deer hunting for the most part is not up close and personal. Whether using gun or bow, the hunter is usually far enough away to take the kill without being on top of the animal.

Now if the animal were just injured (although a good hunter generally knows what "kill spots" to aim for) and the hunter went to pick it up, the animal could rear up and slash with hooves or horns.

dirtsider
06-24-2008, 09:29 PM
Even if the MC does end up using a bow, he'd still have to go through the training (which involves gun safety) to get his hunting license. I only found this out because a couple of friends of mine had to take this training in order to get their hunting licenses so they can hunt with their birds. They (and Mel's mother) are all falconers and take their birds out to hunt during hunting season rather than just feed them meat from the butcher shop. They had to borrow someone's gun at the time.

catethegreat
06-24-2008, 09:41 PM
"He's about to meet the wrong deer" What the heck?

What do you need to know about hunting exactly?

johnnysannie
06-24-2008, 10:21 PM
Even if the MC does end up using a bow, he'd still have to go through the training (which involves gun safety) to get his hunting license. I only found this out because a couple of friends of mine had to take this training in order to get their hunting licenses so they can hunt with their birds. They (and Mel's mother) are all falconers and take their birds out to hunt during hunting season rather than just feed them meat from the butcher shop. They had to borrow someone's gun at the time.

Whether or not a hunter has to take a safety course to get a hunting license varies between states and by age. I'm old enough - lucky me - that I have never had to take any hunter education courses of any kind.

tjwriter
06-24-2008, 10:36 PM
I would think this would be for the more inexperienced hunters, but he could do something extraordinarily stupid like accidentally get doe scent on his person and then decide to go ground hunting. It's an awful way to attrack some bucks.

Jenan Mac
06-25-2008, 10:25 PM
I need to set up the scene where he thinks he's just hunting a regular deer. Instead of...well...a Pagan God he doesn't believe exists, and who's pretty irritated with him.
No sex involved, though being buggered by a deer would completely finish off a Very Bad Day for the poor guy.

Sarpedon
06-25-2008, 10:46 PM
The whole incident is in the 'mahabharata' if you are interested.

Unfortunately, I can't actually help you, as I know nothing about hunting.

Lawfire
06-26-2008, 12:12 AM
What kind of information are you looking for exactly? The techniques hunters use? The firearms, clothing, and equipment of choice for hunters? The species of deer likely being hunted?

I'm willing to help you out, just need to know what you're looking for.

Jenan Mac
06-27-2008, 12:45 AM
Okay, specific questions:

Do people still stalk deer? Or do they mostly hang out in blinds and wait?
Is a specific type of blind better than another, or does it just depend on where you hunt?
And I know nothing about the relative merits of different weapons. For a forty-something guy, possibly with stereotyped Brave Indian Hunter fantasies, who grew up relatively small town/rural, and has since moved to the 'burbs of a mid-sized city, what would be the gun of choice-- mid-price, mid-weight (because he has to carry it for awhile), sufficient to kill the deer, but not enough that he could go after, say, elephant?

Lawfire
06-27-2008, 06:51 AM
Alright,this I can help with.



Do people still stalk deer? Or do they mostly hang out in blinds and wait?
Is a specific type of blind better than another, or does it just depend on where you hunt?
Both tactics are still used, as well as a few others. I would say that blind hunting is becoming more and more common, often used with bait (a bucket of apples, carrots, corn, etc). These blinds are often baited before hunting season and often draw a fair number of deer, most young or does (not legal to shoot in most cases).

Still hunting is a tactic of simply walking very slowly through the forest, stopping to look and listen every so often.

Stalking is done, and is a lot easier to do with freshly falling snow. Tracks are followed, and the object is to catch up to the deer getting a good look/shot.

Driving deer is done with a group of hunters. A few sit in designated locations, while other hunters walk in a line or pattern causing any deer in the area to run towards the stationary hunters.

Road hunting involves driving logging roads and trails, hoping to spot a deer and get a shot before it runs off. This is often abused and if the gun is not stored properly, is illegal.

Some states allow the use of hounds/dogs to chase deer, but I don't know much about that technique.


And I know nothing about the relative merits of different weapons. For a forty-something guy, possibly with stereotyped Brave Indian Hunter fantasies, who grew up relatively small town/rural, and has since moved to the 'burbs of a mid-sized city, what would be the gun of choice-- mid-price, mid-weight (because he has to carry it for awhile), sufficient to kill the deer, but not enough that he could go after, say, elephant?There are many different types of firearms used to hunt deer. Michigan requires that the gun is larger than a .22 caliber rim-fire. Some areas, you are not allowed to use a rifle, you have to use a shotgun. The idea behind this is that a slug or buckshot would not travel as far as a bullet from a rifle, so there would be less risk for hunting accidents in areas with high hunter densities.

A good mid-price, mid-weight gun, that is very popular with hunters is a .30-30 caliber lever action rifle. It has good range, good accuracy, and is more than sufficient to kill a deer humanely.

I realize that's a pretty basic over-view, so if you have any follow-up questions, or need more details on any of that, let me know.

Kalyke
06-27-2008, 07:26 AM
The majority of hunters I have known are terrible shots, botch the job, and the deer dies in agony. They find the deer, maybe try to kill it with a knife. It is awful stuff but it gives the 40-50 year old guy his yearly fantasy. The guys I know who hunt usually hunt near their houses and bait the area all year so they are assured of something during hunting season. (I live on a street that actually has deer crossing signs on it, and I see huge turkeys here too) The deer around here have "wasting sickness." The meat is so tough you have to mix beef fat with it. What you need is a Cabela's catalog. Here you go! http://www.cabelas.com/home.jsp;jsessionid=OO5V2C2DMICJLLAQBBJCCNNMCAEFGI WE?_requestid=107706
This is the Bible for hunters in the Midwest! Hope that helps.

aliajohnson
06-27-2008, 07:38 AM
The majority of hunters I have known are terrible shots, botch the job, and the deer dies in agony. They find the deer, maybe try to kill it with a knife. It is awful stuff but it gives the 40-50 year old guy his yearly fantasy. The guys I know who hunt usually hunt near their houses and bait the area all year so they are assured of something during hunting season. (I live on a street that actually has deer crossing signs on it, and I see huge turkeys here too) The deer around here have "wasting sickness." The meat is so tough you have to mix beef fat with it. What you need is a Cabela's catalog. Here you go! http://www.cabelas.com/home.jsp;jsessionid=OO5V2C2DMICJLLAQBBJCCNNMCAEFGI WE?_requestid=107706
This is the Bible for hunters in the Midwest! Hope that helps.

Holy. Crap. What sort of hunters have you been meeting?

I don't hunt (though I do shoot) but I and my sister were given lessons along with my brothers. You never, ever, ever shoot unless you are absolutely certain you can take the animal down in one shot. And far from a "fantasy" for my father, we always ate (and continue to eat) what he kills. That too has been a rule in our house--you kill it, you eat it.

Lawfire
06-27-2008, 08:13 AM
There are a number of people who hunt that give the activity a bad name, but that could be said about a lot of things. A lot of people use them as ammunition for anti-hunting rants, and that is unfortunate. Should we outlaw driving because there are a number of terrible, irresponsible drivers that kill innocent people everyday?

Ack, I'll stop myself...this isn't the appropriate place to debate hunting, and it won't help the OP gather information.

If there is anything I can help with, On Topic, please don't hesitate to ask.

aliajohnson
06-27-2008, 08:20 AM
There are a number of people who hunt that give the activity a bad name, but that could be said about a lot of things. A lot of people use them as ammunition for anti-hunting rants, and that is unfortunate. Should we outlaw driving because there are a number of terrible, irresponsible drivers that kill innocent people everyday?

Ack, I'll stop myself...this isn't the appropriate place to debate hunting, and it won't help the OP gather information.

If there is anything I can help with, On Topic, please don't hesitate to ask.


You're right. Sorry, Jenan. :)

dirtsider
06-27-2008, 05:10 PM
There are a number of people who hunt that give the activity a bad name, but that could be said about a lot of things. A lot of people use them as ammunition for anti-hunting rants, and that is unfortunate. Should we outlaw driving because there are a number of terrible, irresponsible drivers that kill innocent people everyday?

Ack, I'll stop myself...this isn't the appropriate place to debate hunting, and it won't help the OP gather information.

If there is anything I can help with, On Topic, please don't hesitate to ask.

Actually, I think this isn't entirely Off Topic. If the MC is a hunter, I'm sure he would be aware of some of the debates and the bad hunters, etc.

Funny little story: I had a co-worker at one of my previous jobs who hunted. He asked around at work to see if anyone was willing to have some of the meat in exchange for chipping in with the butcher's bill. He apparently was of a similiar mindset as Alia's father - you kill it, you eat it - and didn't want to waste the meat. Another co-worker freaked a little and kept saying they were killing "Bambi". Of course, the hunter and those who chipped in for the meat got the last laugh. We had an annual thanksgiving potluck at work and they brought in venison chilli or stew (can't remember which). The woman who freaked loved the chilli/stew, thinking it was made with beef. They never bothered to tell her the truth. I have to admit, I laughed as well. I like venison but I'm not sure how to cook it well enough on my own to try and find if my local butcher has any.

Lawfire
06-27-2008, 09:09 PM
Actually, I think this isn't entirely Off Topic. If the MC is a hunter, I'm sure he would be aware of some of the debates and the bad hunters, etc.

That is true, however, it is one of those topics that can get really heated, really quickly. That's why I stopped myself before I got carried away.

As far as venison goes, when cooked well, it is very hard to tell apart from beef. It is supposed to be better for you than beef, but I don't have any scientific facts handy. I know the meat can taste different based on the age of the deer, and where it's primary habitat is. A buck that lives in a swamp eating cedar and swamp plants tastes a lot different than one that lives in an oak stand, or one that spends all day munching in a corn field.

BrynnaC
06-28-2008, 01:44 AM
My husband won't hunt with anything but his 7mm rifle w the Nikon scope. Deadly accurate. (FYI I don't like the idea of hunting just to kill a trophy, AW. He has a rule if you kill it, you have to eat it. Be it rabbit, deer, or whatever. Know what you're aiming at guys! Unless you LIKE racoon stew.) Hunter Safety is required for all those born after 1977.

Summonere
06-28-2008, 03:55 AM
Well, lemme see if I can help, as it so happens that I'm sitting here at my electronic-computational device, snacking on some venison kilt in the year of our lord, 2007, said meat having remained frozen till I got gnawin hungry an cooked the varmint (after I thawed it). Lawfire left out another method. Goes like this.

Hunting season here corresponds to the rutting season (broadly speaking, October through January), during which time the frisky critters like to hook up an shag, baby, which means that the wily hunter will be out looking for sign. What is sign, you ask? It's the bucky buck version of bling. It's the cool car. The nice pad. The gold neck chain. The dance-floor shimmy that sez gimme gimme gimme.

An it looks like this: small to smallish trees with bark rubbed off them down low where the buck has given it a good bullyragging with his horns, the ends of low-lying branches an twigs thereabouts snap'd an crack'd an bent where he's sometimes given them a go, too. This barkless tree is known as a rub.

You'll very likely also find a scrape, which is a patch of ground where the horny devil has scraped away everything down to the dirt so he can go wee-wee on the patch, sometimes leaving a nice batch of what sorta looks like chocolate M&Ms, which are, of course, not edible, but all of which appears to be mighty appealing to the females of the species. Sometimes you'll not merely see these things, but also smell that smelly musky bucky smell at a fresh scrape.

Oh, but observing these things, what's a hunter to do? Take note. See, there'll be a trail of some sort, a path of likely, even habitual, travel to an from the site. Our keen hunter will pick a spot to observe that trail downwind of said rub or scrape. Then he'll do this: he'll get up in the pre-dawn hours, or maybe even sometime just before dusk, an sit in that spot he's picked. He'll wait till he sees bucky buck moving back to his pad, that place where he puts out the bling that makes all the doe ladies sing. An when bucky buck gets close enough, our wily hunter pulls a trigger, twangs a bowstring, clicks open a pocketknife, casts a magic spell, or does whatever it is that he does to drop that critter.

If he's using a firearm, it could be anything of sufficient legal caliber (unless he doesn't give a hoot'n toot about legality), but 30-30 Winchester is widely considered to be the most popular deer hunting rifle round ever. Course he might also use 30-06, 308, or any number of a great, great many other things (7mm, for instance, which is a great round), an he could be shooting these things outta all kinds of actions, too. Single action, lever action, semi-auto, pump-action. Depends depends depends.

In any event, many, many things have been left out of this account, but thatsa sorta 'nother way to do it.

catethegreat
06-28-2008, 06:02 AM
All of my deer hunting experiences involve at least one type of legal activity (permit? what permit?). I still go spotlighting (aka "spottin'), have never had a permit, have hunted in all seasons, and occasionally on, uh, "undesignated" hunting land.

*pause* FUNNY STORY, if I may...

I have a friend named B who had asked this girl, G, out on a date. B was driving in his Camaro down the (dirt, country, backwoods) road to pick up G for their date.

B saw a deer in the woods along the road, stopped the car, pulled his rifle from behind the seat and shot the buck (8 pointer) out of his passenger side window. Then B realized he had nowhere to put the deer, but being the good ol' boy that he is, straps the deer to the HOOD of his car with the rope he keeps in the back seat for such an emergency.

He is now ten minutes late for his date, realizes he has no time to take the deer home and/or cancel his date, so he drives to her house and picks her up anyway.

G is flabbergasted, G's dad thinks B is awesome and offers to mount the deer's head on a plaque for free. Now the deer head hangs in the living room of B and G's house. They are married now, with 2 kids. THE END

Jenan Mac
06-28-2008, 05:32 PM
Thank you, thank you everyone for the information, the stories, and the discussion! My MC is pretty much a legal, ethical sort of hunter-- hence the questions. If he were a Bambi-killin', target-missin' creepazoid it probably would have been easier to write, but he's a good guy.


A question about chronic wasting disease-- it looks like it's related to scrapie and mad cow? Should people be eating those deer?

Summonere
06-30-2008, 01:06 AM
A question about chronic wasting disease-- it looks like it's related to scrapie and mad cow? Should people be eating those deer?


According to the CDC...



...the risk, if any, of transmission of CWD to humans is low. [But] Hunters should avoid eating meat from deer and elk that look sick or test positive for CWD.
Link to article is here: http://www.cdc.gov/NCIDOD/EID/vol10no6/03-1082.htm

Kalyke
06-30-2008, 04:06 AM
Holy. Crap. What sort of hunters have you been meeting?

Well they ate the deer. And the type I have met are the reeellly lazy kind, who live on the border of parks or wherever it is legal to kill deer.

Just last night, I was walking in the local park and was nearly trampled by a deer. They are treated as vermin around here. Tasty vermin.

GeorgeK
06-30-2008, 02:07 PM
The deer around here have "wasting sickness." The meat is so tough you have to mix beef fat with it.

You eat deer with Chronic Wasting Disease?

MadScientistMatt
07-04-2008, 07:36 PM
Okay, specific questions:

Do people still stalk deer? Or do they mostly hang out in blinds and wait?

He could do either one. In a Georgia forest, you can sometimes stalk deer on foot, but would be more likely to be up in a tree stand.


Is a specific type of blind better than another, or does it just depend on where you hunt?

You'd only be using a blind if there was no trees; a stand gives you more visibility. There's all sorts of different stands; some are permanently built in the tree, others are kind of semi-permanent ladder and platform contraptions you chain to a tree, and other stands are weird contraptions that assist the hunter in climbing a tree. If you're not familiar with climbing stands, I wouldn't use one. As it's family land, he probably has built several permanent stands. They look almost like kid's tree houses.


And I know nothing about the relative merits of different weapons. For a forty-something guy, possibly with stereotyped Brave Indian Hunter fantasies, who grew up relatively small town/rural, and has since moved to the 'burbs of a mid-sized city, what would be the gun of choice-- mid-price, mid-weight (because he has to carry it for awhile), sufficient to kill the deer, but not enough that he could go after, say, elephant?

Most likely a lever action 30-30, such as the Marlin 1894 or a Winchester 94. (http://www.chuckhawks.com/win_1894_classic_test.htm) Being an actual 19th century design, these would definitely fit a Brave Indian Hunter fantasy, and fits your list of requirements. He may have a telescopic sight on it or he may not. It's not uncommon for hunters to use somewhat old fashioned guns compared to military weapons, simply because they're affordable and effective. Here's some other possible weapons he might carry that would fit the bill.

1. A shotgun. Probably a 12 gauge, and it would be loaded with either buckshot or slugs. There's several different types; the classic double barreled is more Brave Indian Hunter, or he might be carrying something like a Remmington pump action shotgun.

2. A Mosin Nagant, like the one Jude Law had in Enemy at the Gates. After the Cold War ended, a lot of Eastern European countries sold their stocks of these on the international market and many of them trickled into US gun stores for under $100 each. They're bolt action and have a bit more killing power than a .30-30.

3. It is possible that he may carry an assault rifle, but it would not be the same as a military one - civilian versions can't fire like a machine gun, and often have a bit more polished wood and less flat black plastic.

Other things he'd probably have with him would include an orange vest, binoculars or a small telescope, a fairly large knife, and some sort arrangement for transporting the deer out, either an ATV or a wagon type deal. Many hunters buy surplus military body bags to make transporting the deer less messy.

GeorgeK
07-05-2008, 09:01 AM
According to the CDC...

Link to article is here: http://www.cdc.gov/NCIDOD/EID/vol10no6/03-1082.htm


That's a nice link, but it's just a little out of date. Prion diseases grey squirrels have been identified in Eastern Ky as well as an ocassional deer. They announced it a few years after a small epidemic of early onset rapidly progressing alzheimers in the same area. Incidentally, the same area was know for burgoo (squirrel brain stew) and prions are most numerous in the central nervous system. It is interesting that Kosher butchering practices would likely reduce the risk of transmission from eating meat from an infected animal, since one of the requirements is no spilling of the cerebral spinal fluid.

Obviously there may be more than one way of getting it, but all the animals' species that have so far been identified as potential vectors eat (scavenge) from cattle feed lots, or are the first degree consumer of those animals (as in the mink, ferrets and cats, humans, etc). If you are going to hunt, I suggest not going for a head shot, but a heart/double lung shot; leave the head and filet the meat off the spine rather than the conventional splitting.

Summonere
07-06-2008, 06:15 PM
All of my pets are peeves. I get them at Peeve Mart. They cause memory loss, inattentiveness, halitosis, and an uncontrollable tendency to post things spontaneously Googled-up from the Internet.

meldy
07-06-2008, 06:37 PM
I agree with everything the other hunters said on here already.
Although we hunt with a bolt action 30.06, not sure what brand as I never looked but hubby would know I can ask him when he gets up. (its the only gun we own aside from a .22)

Packs a hell of a kick, I have only shot coyotes with it until I figured out the .22 doesnt bruise my shoulder and does the job just as well.(hubby even got me a special pad to go on the stock where it butts into my shoulder lol but the 30.06 still nearly knocks me on my ass)

If you cook and deer in beef stock or beef fat it tastes a lot like beef.
ALL deer is pretty tough. They dont have as much fat as beef so tend to cook dry (and tough) long, slow cooking times and I always cook in beef stock.

Does your big bad guy have to be a deer?: Wouldnt a moose or elk be more interesting?

Jenan Mac
07-10-2008, 05:23 PM
Does your big bad guy have to be a deer?: Wouldnt a moose or elk be more interesting?

A deer works better for the plot and the location. Moose and elk aren't as common in the Carolinas, unless he's shooting members of a fraternal organization (which could be an interesting twist, come to think of it!).
Thanks again to everybody who responded!