Was I too honest?

whistlelock · May 31, 2008

So, I had an interview at a local video game developer for a QA position on Friday. Which, is low level play-the-game-all-day-long-looking-for-bugs position. Not a lot of bank, but potentially more than I'm making now and a better future fur shure.

And, the team lead that I would have been working for and whom was conducting the interview asked, "so, why this company?" he leaned back, and grinned like he wanted me to ya-know, do him right then.

And, what flashed through my head was, "this guy wants to hear that this company is the coolest. it's the best place to work at, and gosh how i feel so lucky blah blah blah. screw that, I'm telling the truth for once." and I said,

"Because you're a means to an end. Once I'm in the industry, I'll spend a year doing this job and work my writing skills even more and begin submitting material to other developers for a staff writing position. It's a personal point of pride that I do the best job I can no matter where I'm at, and if there's someone better than me I'll work tirelessly to be better than them. I'll be the best on the team within 2 months, and within 6 I'll be the best in the company."

I mean, why shouldn't I be honest? Isn't that better than feeding him a line of horse shit about how much I care about this, and how I'm so passionate about that? no, I care about a few things and in this context it's playing a fun game and writing, and not in that order.

And then there was silence.

He looked like someone just walked in and said, "You're dog's outside, and it's dead." It was that kind of shocked and dazed expression.

After a moment of me staring at him, intensely, he followed that with, "um. Okay. Do you have any questions for me?"

and I said, "Nope. I've researched this job thoroughly, and I know it in detail from an outsiders perspective. I know I can do it. Here's how much money I want for it. And thanks for the water." I shook his hand and held the door open for him so he could walk me out.

after I got home I sent out a some thank you emails to everyone I encountered and wished them all a good day.

So, was I too honest or just honest enough?

SPMiller · May 31, 2008

Sounds like what I'd say, so you were probably too honest.

maestrowork · May 31, 2008

There's honesty, and then there's rudeness and acting like a jackass.

The thing is, if you act like you don't need that job, they probably won't hire you anyway, since there is someone else who needs this job. Now, if they really want you -- like you're the only person in the world who can do this, then you have all the professional capital to pull it off.

Otherwise, be humble.

Here's what's too honest (and probably bad choice of words):

"Because you're a means to an end (translation: your company means nothing to me). Once I'm in the industry, I'll spend a year doing this job (translation: I'll be out of here quickly enough, and I'll always be on the lookout. Don't expect any loyalty) and work my writing skills even more and begin submitting material to other developers for a staff writing position. It's a personal point of pride that I do the best job I can no matter where I'm at (translation: you really don't mean anything to me -- I'm like a locust, I eat, I leave), and if there's someone better than me I'll work tirelessly to be better than them. I'll be the best on the team within 2 months, and within 6 I'll be the best in the company (translation: I'm really arrogant; you'll all be beneath me in 6 months)."

Now let's take an honest but more diplomatic approach:

"Because this company fits me and I fit you. It's a good industry for me at this point, and I'll be able to work on my writing skills toward a staff writing position, even if it means I may have to leave this company. It's a personal point of pride that I do the best job, and and I'll work tirelessly to be the best of the best."

Part of being a savvy professional and business person is to be able to effectively communicate with others and create this "win-win" situation. In this case: they get a good worker and you get paid and opportunity to sharpen your skills. If you want to succeed in business, you'll need to learn to influence people diplomatically so people will bend over backward for you without feeling like you're taking advantage of them. It's an art. Honesty is good, but should be done with tact. You don't have to kiss their asses or pretend to be their best friends, but nobody wants to work with someone who is rude and arrogant as if they know everything. If I were a hiring manager, that's the last person I'd want to hire. I don't want an ass-kisser, and I do want someone who's honest, but not to the point of being insulting.

sassandgroove · May 31, 2008

listen to ray. It's too farkin' late to read his post, but I am sure he's right.

alright i'll read it. sheesh.

yeah - listen to ray.

Back when I was young and naive I was stuck in a terrible job. It was draining me emotionally. I was afraid to quit unless I had another job lined up and stayed way to long. So I am at a job interview- I should be kissing the ground this guy walks on, since I have all of two jobs on my resume, and he asks my why his company and I break down and cry, saying something about how I have to 'get out of there.' Yeah- he didn't hire me.

Mac H. · May 31, 2008

It isn't the honestly that's the problem, but that the honestly revealed an attitude that they may not want to work with.

The person being interviewed stated unambiguously:

1. That they have a weird psychological need to feel superior to other co-workers.

That isn't the attitude this company needs from someone working in QA. Seriously. This employee will be telling programmers how their stuff is failing. An "I need to to be better than you" attitude isn't going to help.

2. They are going to invest time and resources into the new employee, but the new guy has no intention of being there longer than a year.

In other words, the guy being interviewed said "I hope you like interviewing people, because even if you hire me, you'll have to do this all over again soon. I'm not sticking around"

The person being interviewed may think that the work is so menial and entry level that it takes no resources from the company to train them, but they will be wrong. It may seem like that, but it takes time to get people doing things their way... reporting the bugs in a certain way, identifying which module it is likely to be in, etc etc.

I'm interviewing people for similar type positions at the moment, and if someone said those kind of things I'd think that they have issues. Seriously. Someone who walks in the door and said "I'm not even in your industry, but in six months I will have superior skills to you and everyone else in the company" doesn't come across as quite sane.

I'd thank them politely and be thankful that I dodged the bullet of hiring them.

Mac
(PS: You may care about 'playing a fun game' but regression testing software isn't playing. Game testing is highly focused on finding particular bugs, which often involves very, very tedious methods)

Michael Parks · May 31, 2008

Wow. 'Too honest' doesn't cover that. I'd call that simply, "foot in mouth, out the door".

Not to bend yer feelers, but good luck finding employment anywhere with that approach.

LIVIN · Jun 1, 2008

I'm with the others.

dpaterso · Jun 1, 2008

If the interviewer thinks hard about what you said, you could still be in with a shot. The thank-you emails were a positive.

-Derek

Inkdaub · Jun 1, 2008

I've only pulled the honesty trick during an interview once. I was tired and uncomfortable and just felt like speaking my mind about the questions I was asked. I felt I was killing my chance at the job. Yet they hired me that very day.

Still, I think lying is the best policy when in an interview. I don't even think the interviewer wants the truth, they want to see how well you play the interview game. Maybe I'm too pessimistic but that's really how I see it.

maestrowork · Jun 1, 2008

dpaterso said:
If the interviewer thinks hard about what you said, you could still be in with a shot. The thank-you emails were a positive.

-Derek

It depends on what they're looking for.

Like I said, if it's a job only you can do, then you have all the professional capital in the world to pull it off. If they're looking for a no-BS, take-no-prisoner star quarterback, then by all means project that attitude.

But if they're looking for a team player (as most QA departments are), then the "I'll be out of here in a year" and "I'll learn all I can and then look somewhere else -- it's all about me getting into this industry" and "I'll be better than everyone else in this company" does not project the "I'm a good team player" image.

Then again, maybe they'll be impressed with this "I'm not going to lie to you -- I'm just using you and you're using me" attitude.

Anyway, good luck.

William Haskins · Jun 1, 2008

you know, it depends on the interviewer.

when i interview for positions at our studio, i harbor no illusions that people don't have a career path in mind that probably doesn't match exactly with what we're offering.

i don't need smoke blown up my ass, but i want to know that they're going to be engaged enough to do an effective job and care about the product while they're there.

i think your response was, by and large, fine. although, it would have cost you nothing to tie your plans to some benefit to be gained from the here and now, such as:

"i find that QAing gives me nuts and bolts insight into design decisions and game balance ideas, so even while i'm just finding and reporting bugs, i glean new ideas and approaches that will enrich my own take on game writing / design."

Devil Ledbetter · Jun 1, 2008

whistlelock said:
It's a personal point of pride that I do the best job I can no matter where I'm at, and if there's someone better than me I'll work tirelessly to be better than them. I'll be the best on the team within 2 months, and within 6 I'll be the best in the company."

There is a performance standard my company refers to as internally cooperative/externally competitive. That's shorthand for, you don't compete with your coworkers, you cooperate with them and direct your competitive energies at the company's business competition. Likewise, you don't cooperate with the company's competitors by sniffing around for a job with them.

Good luck getting a new job, though.

aspier · Jun 1, 2008

"Because you're a means to an end. Once I'm in the industry, I'll spend a year doing this job and work my writing skills even more and begin submitting material to other developers for a staff writing position. It's a personal point of pride that I do the best job I can no matter where I'm at, and if there's someone better than me I'll work tirelessly to be better than them. I'll be the best on the team within 2 months, and within 6 I'll be the best in the company."

No, its not a question of being 'too' honest, its rather eh ... not kind of the right way to make this guy your friend. I know in America this kind of hanging out the hard ball successful capitalist going 'somewhere' in life might take in some maffia movies but in Belgium, where I live, the whole of Europe actually, this is the dumbest way to open up an alliance. See, you have to let the guy (the inteviewer) feel it would be an asset to him to 'hang around' with you. Therefor a less bashfull approach might do a better trick. The least you need is 'compitition' and this guy, even if he appoints you, will do his best to lay stones (unconsciously - men are like this) in your way. And your promises might just not come true. In a job situation the FIRST thing you need is an alliance from which you can start a network of 'loyalties' towards you. Only on the SECOND place come ability. But I think you are on the right road, just focus and DON'T sell yourself - get into a situation where 'they' WANT to buy you irrespectively. What you have give this guy is only words. He can't read those words as too much attitude comes through. ALWAYS keeps something back ... to freak him/em out later.

No?

Was I too honest?

whistlelock

Whiskey Rebel

SPMiller

Prodigiously Hanged

maestrowork

Fear the Death Ray

sassandgroove

Sassy haircut

Mac H.

Board Visitor

Michael Parks

In the moment

LIVIN

dpaterso

Also in our Discord and IRC chat channels

Inkdaub

wrapped in plastic

maestrowork

Fear the Death Ray

William Haskins

poet

Devil Ledbetter

Come on you stranger, you legend,

aspier