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eldragon
05-21-2008, 10:43 PM
Question: Would you let your 11-year-old daughter spend the night with a friend who lived in subsidized housing, in a high-crime area, just to keep from offending the parents?

Pat~
05-21-2008, 10:52 PM
That is a tough one, Eldragon. And I wish I had a simple answer for you. But I think one key thing is that I'd never do anything "just to keep from offending" someone--in other words, while that's an important consideration, I wouldn't want it to be my only reason for doing something.

How good a friend is this of your daughter's? How well do you know the parents? What activities will the girls be doing--(will they be walking around town after dark, etc.)? Those would be some other important considerations for me.

Perks
05-21-2008, 10:53 PM
Oh god. That's a tough one. I had to nix an overnight when I got to know a little friend's home situation. Luckily there was a big dog that terrified my daughter and I had an easy out.

I grew up in such neighborhoods and I'm not sure what I'd do besides the coward's way out and make up a big excuse.

C.bronco
05-21-2008, 10:53 PM
If it makes you uncomfortable, say no. Suggest an alternative activity for your daughter and her friend.

eldragon
05-21-2008, 10:55 PM
I'm afraid that, if I say no, the parents will think I said no because they are a lesbian couple, and they are black.


It sounds almost funny, I know.

I have no problem with their sexual orientation or their race, but someone is murdered and/or raped in the same complex about once a month. And just this weekend - a double rape/murder.

Help!

Southern_girl29
05-21-2008, 10:58 PM
I would probably say no, too, and make up an excuse. I can remember when I was in the fifth grade, my best friend wanted me to spend the night. Her mom was a single parent who worked second shift, so the girl and her little brother were home alone from the time they got out of school until their mom got home around midnight. My mom nixed the idea when she found out. I was so mad, but now I understand. I wouldn't let my daughter spend the night either in that situation.

C.bronco
05-21-2008, 10:58 PM
Good Lord! Say no! You can always tell the parents that you're too worried about the rape and murder that occurred in the complex.

eldragon
05-21-2008, 11:01 PM
:cry::cry::cry::cry:

eldragon
05-21-2008, 11:03 PM
I just talked to my husband, and we agreed that we are going to LIE.

We'll make up a big fat lie about going out of town next week, on a big getaway we forgot about, and then we won't answer the phone at all.

Oh what a tangled web we weave.........

JoNightshade
05-21-2008, 11:05 PM
Question: Would you let your 11-year-old daughter spend the night with a friend who lived in subsidized housing, in a high-crime area, just to keep from offending the parents?

Separate out "would you let your daughter" and "offending someone." Don't make your choice based on a possible offense. Your daughter's life and wellbeing is worth offending someone. Always.

Incidentally, to make you feel less like a wacko, when I was a kid I was never allowed in the homes of my friends if their parents smoked. This included my next door neighbor, who I hung out with daily. We had to spend all of our time outside or in my house. As a kid I was always embarrassed and afraid my friends would feel bad, but as an adult I totally get it. I'm glad my parents cared enough about me that they didn't even want me exposed to secondhand smoke. :)

Ol' Fashioned Girl
05-21-2008, 11:06 PM
That's just delaying the inevitable. They'll be asking her over again now and you'll have to go through all this again.

Perks
05-21-2008, 11:11 PM
I'm afraid that, if I say no, the parents will think I said no because they are a lesbian couple, and they are black.


It sounds almost funny, I know.

I have no problem with their sexual orientation or their race, but someone is murdered and/or raped in the same complex about once a month. And just this weekend - a double rape/murder.

Help!Good lord. That's a minefield. And it's not going to be enough to invite the little girl over to your place. Pam, you could always go into the witness relocation program.

Me? I'm going to become a hermit. Life's too complicated.

mscelina
05-21-2008, 11:11 PM
I wouldn't even make up an excuse. I'd call the other girl's moms and tell them that due to the double rape/murder that just happened, you'd be more comfortable if the girls spent the night at your house. any reasonable parent would understand that.

eldragon
05-21-2008, 11:13 PM
That's just delaying the inevitable. They'll be asking her over again now and you'll have to go through all this again.

Well, their daughter and my daughter aren't even that close. They used to play sports together, and the moms were coaches.

So we see each other at sporting events, and always speak. Today was our daughters 5th grade graduation ceremony and one of them asked me, to my face, if my daughter could spend the night next week for a birthday sleepover. I automatically said "yes." Then I thought about it, and thought about it.............for hours.


It dawned on me where they live and even though I do trust the women, they can't watch the girls every second.

I just think my daughters safety could be in jeopardy. Or she may be exposed to things I don't want her see yet, because we keep her pretty sheltered here.

And finally, I don't think my daughter would even be able to sleep there. She's worried enough here with me at night, because her dad works until midnight.

I think it would be torture for her, and torture for me and her dad. Not worth it.

Southern_girl29
05-21-2008, 11:14 PM
I wouldn't even make up an excuse. I'd call the other girl's moms and tell them that due to the double rape/murder that just happened, you'd be more comfortable if the girls spent the night at your house. any reasonable parent would understand that.

I agree with this. If they get offended and think it's due to their race or sexual orientation, then it's their own fault. I wouldn't worry about it beyond that.

ETA: I had age first, but changed it to race.

eldragon
05-21-2008, 11:17 PM
Good lord. That's a minefield. And it's not going to be enough to invite the little girl over to your place. Pam, you could always go into the witness relocation program.

Me? I'm going to become a hermit. Life's too complicated.
If only that were the entire story, Perks.

Thanks for the laugh, though.

Perks
05-21-2008, 11:18 PM
I wouldn't even make up an excuse. I'd call the other girl's moms and tell them that due to the double rape/murder that just happened, you'd be more comfortable if the girls spent the night at your house. any reasonable parent would understand that.You know, this really is good sense. You can always play up how much the local news gets to you. You can make sure you tell them you think they're great and that their daughter is a good friend to yours. Just blame you neuroses - that's the fib that can never be found out.

Perks
05-21-2008, 11:19 PM
And finally, I don't think my daughter would even be able to sleep there. She's worried enough here with me at night, because her dad works until midnight.

I think it would be torture for her, and torture for me and her dad. Not worth it.That's a great out, too.

sassandgroove
05-21-2008, 11:20 PM
Don't lie, because what will you do when your daughter is invited for another night. Plus it will send a message to your daughter you may not intend that lieing is OK. Just tell them they and their daughter are welcome at your house but you don't feel comfortable sending your daughter to their neighborhood. That should aleviate any feelings that you don't like them.

sassandgroove
05-21-2008, 11:22 PM
wow, i posted and a whole mess of new posts popped up. sorry if /\ that one is outdated.
And finally, I don't think my daughter would even be able to sleep there. She's worried enough here with me at night, because her dad works until midnight. There's your out and you don't have to lie. And you could throw in that they are welcome at your place.

Thump
05-21-2008, 11:23 PM
I'd tell them it's because of the neighborhood. But without implying they're irresponsible for living there :/ Toughy... I mean, they probably realize they don't live in the best part of town. Or that your kid heard about the rape/murder and is too scared now, even if the moms will be in the house.

When I was her age, I was living in Guatemala. People there will kill you for 10$. I was not allowed to sleepover at my best-friend's house because she lived in a very popular neighborhood and well...I'm very obviously all-white. She was welcome in the place we lived in (with armed guards and what not). I resented it a bit then but I understood as well the reasons why I couldn't go.

DL Hegel
05-21-2008, 11:25 PM
Question: Would you let your 11-year-old daughter spend the night with a friend who lived in subsidized housing, in a high-crime area, just to keep from offending the parents?
It is a tough one --but what is more important than your child's safety--if you are really worried about what they think--invite the parents over for a dinner or bbq--then they will know it is not them. And if they bring it up--be honest.

I grew up in the city--and your worries are not unfounded and nothing you should feel guilty about.

Yeshanu
05-21-2008, 11:39 PM
I'm afraid that, if I say no, the parents will think I said no because they are a lesbian couple, and they are black.


It sounds almost funny, I know.

I have no problem with their sexual orientation or their race, but someone is murdered and/or raped in the same complex about once a month. And just this weekend - a double rape/murder.

Help!

I would say no, and tell the truth about why. Then invite the daughter to stay at your house instead.

If you're the entertaining type, I second the thought of inviting the couple and daughter over for a dinner of some type.

WendyNYC
05-22-2008, 12:00 AM
I wouldn't even make up an excuse. I'd call the other girl's moms and tell them that due to the double rape/murder that just happened, you'd be more comfortable if the girls spent the night at your house. any reasonable parent would understand that.

Maybe, but this will very likely offend them. You are talking about their HOME. If they didn't think it was safe, they wouldn't live there and they wouldn't be inviting other kids over.

I think if you say "double rape/murder" they will hear "I think your neighborhood is a ghetto."

By the way, there was a horrific bloody murder recently in my neighborhood. On Park Avenue, actually, but no one seems to fear it here yet.

CACTUSWENDY
05-22-2008, 12:14 AM
I would think that to lie about it would not be teaching your child a very good lesson. Why not talk about the crime problem and be above board with it all? I would think once the parents of said child hear this they will understand. Our daily actions are very important for small children. IMHO

TerzaRima
05-22-2008, 12:16 AM
If they didn't think it was safe, they wouldn't live there and they wouldn't be inviting other kids over.


In subsidized housing, in a high crime area? I doubt it. My bet is they live there because they must, and if they lived in a nice neighborhood, they probably wouldn't let their kids go over and spend the night in the slums. I would be straight with them that your daughter is jumpy in general after the rape and murder that happened in their neighborhood.

WendyNYC
05-22-2008, 12:29 AM
If you are honest, you need to be very, very careful how you say it. It could easily be misread as passing judgment on how they live.

Mela
05-22-2008, 12:39 AM
Or you might also say your daughter doesn't handle these situations well - which is sort of true in this case - and that it would be more of a burden for THEM if she were to sleep over - not to say she's a burden, but you know what I mean

Shadow_Ferret
05-22-2008, 12:47 AM
I guess I'm the dissenting voice.

I'd let my kid go. Obviously these people think their place is safe enough to ask in the first place.

I often think people make too much of crime statistics. The area we live in, many of the snooty Suburban parents seem to think our area is high crime and yet we think our neighborhood is safe and quiet compared to the real high crime areas.

Jcomp
05-22-2008, 12:56 AM
That's a tough call. I mean, I'm not sure how "hood" we're talking here. How bad is the crime rate really? Is it "gunshots everynight" bad? Have you visited the parents there before?

The likelihood of your child being harmed may not really be that much higher, but the likelihood of her seeing some craziness that you're not wanting her to be exposed to probably is pretty high.

I agree with people saying that if you employ a little tact, honesty about your concerns is the best way to go.

Devil Ledbetter
05-22-2008, 01:52 AM
Question: Would you let your 11-year-old daughter spend the night with a friend who lived in subsidized housing, in a high-crime area, just to keep from offending the parents?Funny you should ask. I know the answer is "no" for me because just this weekend we didn't allow our 11-year-old daughter to attend a slumber party in a subsidized apartment complex.

The friend can stay here, though.

eldragon
05-22-2008, 02:31 AM
Thanks to everyone for their thoughtful answers.

My daughter came home from school, invitation in hand.

She doesn't want to go. She says she hardly talks to the girl at school, and she would feel uncomfortable. She also said she is the only white girl they invited and she thinks the other girls will ignore her. I told her I doubted that. Who knows? Maybe the girl is reprimanding her parents right now for inviting my daughter!

I'm still not sure what I'm going to say when I call them.

WendyNYC
05-22-2008, 02:38 AM
Thanks to everyone for their thoughtful answers.

My daughter came home from school, invitation in hand.

She doesn't want to go. She says she hardly talks to the girl at school, and she would feel uncomfortable. She also said she is the only white girl they invited and she thinks the other girls will ignore her. I told her I doubted that. Who knows? Maybe the girl is reprimanding her parents right now for inviting my daughter!

I'm still not sure what I'm going to say when I call them.


I'd just say "Sorry, she can't make it that evening." Do you think they will press for a reason?

Kate Thornton
05-22-2008, 02:40 AM
How about, "Thanks so much for the invitation, but Susie doesn't like to do sleepovers away from home. Let Amanda know we'd love to have her over any time here, but for now Susie would feel more comfortable at home."

eldragon
05-22-2008, 02:53 AM
This is why I posted this today. I knew everyone would help me make a good decision.

Thanks!

Jongfan
05-22-2008, 02:54 AM
I just talked to my husband, and we agreed that we are going to LIE.

We'll make up a big fat lie about going out of town next week, on a big getaway we forgot about, and then we won't answer the phone at all.

Oh what a tangled web we weave.........


I would have to disagree with this because it is showing your child that it is ok to lie. My advice, it's your child, your rules. You, as her parent have the right to say no. No excuse is even needed. I've had kids dropped off in my driveway with their backpacks filled for the weekend by parents that have NEVER met me. I turn to my kid and say " there's another house you won't be visiting"
I'd rather the parents of the other child think I'm a bitch than to knowingly put my kid in harms way.

eldragon
05-22-2008, 03:03 AM
I would have to disagree with this because it is showing your child that it is ok to lie. My advice, it's your child, your rules. You, as her parent have the right to say no. No excuse is even needed. I've had kids dropped off in my driveway with their backpacks filled for the weekend by parents that have NEVER met me. I turn to my kid and say " there's another house you won't be visiting"
I'd rather the parents of the other child think I'm a bitch than to knowingly put my kid in harms way.
I guess I made that statement tongue-n-cheek-like.



By saying we'd "lie," I meant a white lie, to not hurt feelings.

Just like when your best friend asked you is she looks fat in her new dress, or if she's too old to wear that short skirt, or if you like her new haircut. That kind of lie.

Jongfan
05-22-2008, 03:11 AM
I guess I made that statement tongue-n-cheek-like.



By saying we'd "lie," I meant a white lie, to not hurt feelings.

Just like when your best friend asked you is she looks fat in her new dress, or if she's too old to wear that short skirt, or if you like her new haircut. That kind of lie.

Yes you look fat in that dress.. take it back, get a refund and that skirt.. darling.. you need more material .. Leave the postage stamps skirts for the tweens.

See, I believe if someone asks an opinion, lying solves nothing nor does it help. I would not let a true friend go out looking ridiculous anymore than I would expect to be lied to when I ask "does my ass make these jeans look fat?"

KTC
05-22-2008, 03:24 AM
I'm afraid that, if I say no, the parents will think I said no because they are a lesbian couple, and they are black.


It sounds almost funny, I know.

I have no problem with their sexual orientation or their race, but someone is murdered and/or raped in the same complex about once a month. And just this weekend - a double rape/murder.

Help!

You can NOT worry about what other people think. You make the decision based on you and your daughter. Their feelings, in this case, are dispensable. You are responsible for your daughter and if you have misgivings, just say no.


ETA: Just tell your daughter that you are uncomfortable with it and if the parents ask just tell them you are uncomfortable. You do not need to explain yourself. Tell them it's not because they are black lesbians if that's the case. Frankly, who cares if they are black lesbians. Your misgivings are for different reasons, so that is not an issue. If it comes to it and they choose not to believe you, c'est la vie... you did what made you most comfortable. That's what matters. Tell your daughter the friend can stay at your house...

Jcomp
05-22-2008, 03:33 AM
Yes you look fat in that dress.. take it back, get a refund and that skirt.. darling.. you need more material .. Leave the postage stamps skirts for the tweens.

See, I believe if someone asks an opinion, lying solves nothing nor does it help. I would not let a true friend go out looking ridiculous anymore than I would expect to be lied to when I ask "does my ass make these jeans look fat?"

On a derail note... I've never understood how jeans or pants or a dress can make you look "fat." You've either got weight on you or you don't. Seriously, dudes aren't even looking at the outfit that hard anyway. Women stress the oddest stuff...

Siddow
05-22-2008, 03:34 AM
Question: Would you let your 11-year-old daughter spend the night with a friend who lived in subsidized housing, in a high-crime area, just to keep from offending the parents?

NO.

WendyNYC
05-22-2008, 03:37 AM
On a derail note... I've never understood how jeans or pants or a dress can make you look "fat." You've either got weight on you or you don't. Seriously, dudes aren't even looking at the outfit that hard anyway. Women stress the oddest stuff...

Jeans can make you look fatTER. Think high-waisted mom jeans with pockets placed high and far apart. And pleats. Nothing else can quite take a normal butt and transform it into a wide, flat ass.

Joycecwilliams
05-22-2008, 03:38 AM
Question: Would you let your 11-year-old daughter spend the night with a friend who lived in subsidized housing, in a high-crime area, just to keep from offending the parents?

I always go with my gut feelings.. they never betray me.

Joycecwilliams
05-22-2008, 03:42 AM
I wouldn't lie... you need to be an example... sometimes life gives us hard choices...

Writer???
05-22-2008, 05:13 AM
I'm afraid that, if I say no, the parents will think I said no because they are a lesbian couple, and they are black.


It sounds almost funny, I know.

I have no problem with their sexual orientation or their race, but someone is murdered and/or raped in the same complex about once a month. And just this weekend - a double rape/murder.

Help!

And you have to ask? Really??? If ANYTHING was ever a "no-brainer" this is surely it. I'd be leary of going into an area like that for the night, let alone my daughter.

Personally, I'd be honest with them and just say, "With all the crime and especially the recent rape/murder, I'm not comfortable with my daughter coming over there, can they come over here and hang out? And maybe we can have a cook-out when you come to pick your daughter up, we'd love to get together."

And actually, being worried that they'd just think it was about race or sexual orientation and wouldn't accept the truth, is in itself a bit racist, or prejudice. Treat people honestly and straightforward and allow them to respond BEFORE you think explanations are called for. If it really has nothing to do with them being black and lesbian, then don't make that part of your concern. Treat them as you would any intelligent, respecting parent able to understand the fears another parent might have.

Bottom line is, I'm not putting my 11 yr old daughter in harms way. If they can't or won't understand that, that's their problem.

Haggis
05-22-2008, 05:22 AM
I'm afraid that, if I say no, the parents will think I said no because they are a lesbian couple, and they are black.


It sounds almost funny, I know.

I have no problem with their sexual orientation or their race, but someone is murdered and/or raped in the same complex about once a month. And just this weekend - a double rape/murder.

Help!

It doesn't matter what the parents will think. What matters is your child's safety.

Do as has been suggested. Invite the child to stay at your house. Invite the couple over to dinner. But for God's sake, don't let your daughter stay in a place where her life or safety might be threatened.

C.bronco
05-22-2008, 05:33 AM
I wouldn't even make up (http://www.absolutewrite.com/forums/make%20up) an excuse. I'd call the other girl's moms and tell them that due to the double rape/murder that just happened, you'd be more comfortable if the girls spent the night at your house. any reasonable parent would understand that.
Ditto that. You could always invite the three of them for a barbeque and talk to the parents quietly. Hearing the concern from someone else might encourage them to move for their daughter's wellbeing.

Carole
05-22-2008, 05:34 AM
I'll tell you something. I remember doing the begging mom to let me sleep over at a friend's house thing and I also remember pestering her until she let me sleep over at a friend's house in a rotten neighborhood. I was uncomfortable because their home was so different than mine, the neighbors were very different and it was generally not a good place for me to be. I really felt out of my element there and I never wanted to go back. IMO, you should just tell your daughter no. If she drives you batty about it, tell her the truth. It's not like you are more worried about what another family thinks than you are about protecting your daughter. You probably feel guilty because you don't want to hurt anyone's feelings. I say take the high road on this one and tell her, 'Because I said so" if ya have to. Looking back, I can surely understand why mom did all the things she did that really pissed me off at the time. And I certainly wasn't scarred by not being allowed to go somewhere that wasn't safe.

Buck up, chickie. Yeah, your daughter will be mad. And then she'll get over it. And you'll still be her mom. :)

Shadow_Ferret
05-22-2008, 06:24 AM
She doesn't want to go. She says she hardly talks to the girl at school, and she would feel uncomfortable.
See? Now this bit of information would have changed my answer and you wouldn't even had to tell me where they lived.

We do this all the time. The kids get invites to people we hardly know, or kids they don't play with and we decline with a thank you, no thank you. No muss, no fuss.

czjaba
05-22-2008, 06:49 AM
I know I'm late in this discussion, but just wanted to add my 2 cents worth anyway.

My girls are 6 and 3 and every kid in the neighborhood and most of their parents know all the kids are always welcome at our house and usually (during the summer) go home with a belly full of hotdogs, hamburgers, or whatever else we throw on the grill, but our kids are not allowed out of our yard. They also know the kids will have to go home for a drink of water if they don't ask properly. Don't care how they are. Please and thank you are mandatory at my house. No one even asks if my kids can leave my yard, not parents or kids because they know the answer. And no kids are allowed inside my house. That's my rules. And I don't care what other parents think about it.
I can't help but to wonder about the other parents, though. I smoke (not in the house except my office), Hubby doesn't smoke, but he drinks beer. And sometimes, I'll have a beer. All this is done in front of the kids and I don't hide it in front of parents who come to pick up their kids. But, they don't know me. They don't know what goes on inside my house and unless the kids tell them, they don't know if their kids are inside my house. The only thing they do know is that if any kid is at my house, whether mine or not, they will all be treated the same. Me and Hubby are like kids in the yard most of the summer anyway and I'm sure they see us playing volleyball and frisbee and running with the kids, but that's beside the point.

chevbrock
05-22-2008, 07:19 AM
I'm with Ferret - your daughter has already told you that she did not want to go because she would feel uncomfortable. A simple, "thank you, but we can't make it this time. We're having a BBQ in two weeks. Can the three of you make it?"

*shrugs*

eldragon
05-22-2008, 02:35 PM
I'm with Ferret - your daughter has already told you that she did not want to go because she would feel uncomfortable. A simple, "thank you, but we can't make it this time. We're having a BBQ in two weeks. Can the three of you make it?"

*shrugs*

Right, but the mom asked me if my daughter could spend the night next week, yesterday at a school function. I automatically barked out "yes."

Then my daughter came from school yesterday and said she didn't want to go.

So I am going to decline.

I'll call them tonight.

johnnysannie
05-22-2008, 03:13 PM
Question: Would you let your 11-year-old daughter spend the night with a friend who lived in subsidized housing, in a high-crime area, just to keep from offending the parents?

No.

My child's safety is always more important than offending someone.

I would, however, if the friend is a good one, invite the child to come to my home instead.

Shadow_Ferret
05-23-2008, 06:36 PM
Right, but the mom asked me if my daughter could spend the night next week, yesterday at a school function. I automatically barked out "yes."

Then my daughter came from school yesterday and said she didn't want to go.

So I am going to decline.

I'll call them tonight.
Oh, my. My stock answer to everything is, "I'll have to check and see." I never ever give a random Yes.

In fact, it's a joke with my kids. Whenever they ask for something, they immediately know my answer is, "We'll see."

sassandgroove
05-23-2008, 07:40 PM
PAM let us know how it went.

On a derail note... I've never understood how jeans or pants or a dress can make you look "fat." You've either got weight on you or you don't. Seriously, dudes aren't even looking at the outfit that hard anyway. Women stress the oddest stuff...
DERAIL: Some clothes are more flattering than others. And since we're all shaped differently, what is flattering on one person makes another "look fat."

Oh, my. My stock answer to everything is, "I'll have to check and see." I never ever give a random Yes.

In fact, it's a joke with my kids. Whenever they ask for something, they immediately know my answer is, "We'll see."
Heh. Heh.

When I was around 10 I asked my mom for high heeled sandels. She said no. So I went and asked my dad if I could have high heeled sandels. He said he supposed it would be alright. Apparently later they had a discussion about it because after that whenever I asked my dad anything -up until I moved out of the house- he would say, "What did your mother say?" :D