Lulu versus Laser Printer Ink (Printouts, Mailing and Editing)

So, a pp470 lulu book costs 13.93. Lots of books won't be that big, but that's the MAXIMUM price.

An ink cart costs somewhere between 15 and 30 bucks. My HP's black ink cart coughs out and dies after two printouts or so.

So, let's assume $15/2 for an ink cart.

Cheap printer paper costs about 3 bucks and you can get, like, 500 sheets. That's at least three printouts of the average sized novel.

15/2 + 1 (3/3)
So a minimum cost printout costs ~8 bucks to make, versus a maximum cost lulu book of ~14. (But can cost as little as >5.)

With an average sized novel, the choice about sending out either a paper print out or a lulu print out comes down to three things.

(1 - which weighs less and costs less to mail?
(2 - Will agents and editors see it as gimmicky? Will this hurt someone's chances of being published?
(3 - Does it remove your ability to sell first-rights?

Puma said:

But ... if I were an agent, I think I'd look on a bound Lulu volume as rather presumptive. Second, if the agent loves it and wants it, but wants to do some editing, make some changes - is it going to be harder to handle a bound Lulu volume for editing (double spaced right?), and how do you handle requested changes from the author? Puma

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Deleting and redoing the file on Lulu isn't any big thing, but there is a time factor. If an agent says, "I want these changes and then I'll be representen', g-to-the-b-dawg," I'd more than likely bite the cost of a regular print out, just in the interest of saving time.

I assume you CAN double space a lulu document, though I could be wrong.

Lulu bindings include spiral bound, stapled at the ends, and actual "imitating a published book" bound.

The spiraled and stapled ones don't look very presumptuous, but they do look different. And that's a huge risk all its own.

Toothpaste said:

Aren't you in university? When I was in university there were tons of cheap photocopy/printing places on campus because, well, everyone needed to print or photocopy something. There are other options aside from print it yourself and Lulu. Other options that wouldn't piss any agent or editor right off.

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The computer lab goons get very, very upset when I print anything more than ten pages at a time. And they have some stupid program that keeps track of which userID has printed how many pages. I know, its not like I paid thousands of dollars in tuition, and its not like every single professor on campus, at some point or another, requires something more than ten pages in length--I mean, really, I'm being absurd, you know?

So printing my novel alongside other homework is next to impossible.

I might check the prices out at Staples, then, since I really don't want to get myself blacklisted. Also, like soccerMom said-- Easy Button.

Also, everyone who said that their ink carts last 18 months---are we on different planets? I have an HP scanner//printer and it runs out of ink after about two run-throughs of my novel. For my specific printer, that's 30 bucks to every ream of paper. It would literally be cheaper to go buy a new low end Lexmark printer every single time. And for me, that's absurd.

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I have to wonder...

blacbird said:

Every fiction agent I've ever heard of (quite a number) wants nothing but double-spaced loose-leaf standard manuscript, as has been indicated by most everyone responding in this thread. There are plenty of good reasons for this preference, and no getting around it, so for submission purposes, don't fret your brain trying the unusual (and almost certainly unacceptable) method.

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...why do they want looseleaf? It isn't easier to read. It gets lost if you drop it. Having finally had a chance to do some actual editing with real deadlines, I ended up putting everything in its own pocket-folder. (I can't print more than ten pages in any given two hour period, but by gum, I can have all the rubber bands and folders I can hide in my trousers!)

Maybe I'm weird, but I found it incredibly annoying to end up with loose leaf documents mixing up with one another, and got to the point where I wanted to throw anything away that didn't have a slug and add number on top.

Now, that having been said, I have used Lulu to produce a standard trade-paperback volume, available to me only, to give to a couple of writer friends for critique. It's competitively cheap and easy to do, and the recipients under those circumstances said they'd prefer a standard book format. I included a statement inside indicating clearly that the volume was nothing more than a manuscript in book format, not available for commercial sale, and not to be considered published material.
caw

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Yeah. At the very least, it seems logical for beta readers.

blacbird said:

Yes, it bloody is. I've done technical academic editing for many years, and I guaranteee you, loose-leaf double-spaced manuscript pages are the only acceptable way to submit a manuscript. Period. End of story. Don't argue with me. Are you listening? Understand this in the marrow of your bones. I'll repeat it, on the off-chance you still don't get it: DOUBLE-SPACED STANDARD MANUSCRIPT PAGES, LOOSE-LEAF, ARE ALL YOU SHOULD EVER SUBMIT ANYWHERE, unless the rare exception happens where somebody actually requests you do something different.

Why is this so? Because it is. Because if you're an editor, you want blank space available for comment or correction, if necessary.

Regards "dropping" a manuscript. I've never dropped a manuscript. Never. As in, not one time. Not even when seriously hung over. NEVER. EVER. NEVER. Is this clear enough? And, if I should happen to drop a manuscript, which I never expect to do, that's my fault, not yours. Provided, of course, that you've had the common sense to NUMBER YOUR PAGES.

This is the way it is. Don't argue. You're not trying to please yourself. You're trying to please an editor or agent and get the cooperation of one to further your effort to get published. This is what's important. Don't argue. Arguing this idiotic point is the true signal of an amateur and a dilettante, and no editor or agent has either the time or the patience to deal with such a person. You ain't going to change this preference. Don't argue.

Now, go write something worth publishing.

And submit it IN A STANDARD ACCEPTABLE FORMAT. Don't argue with me.

caw

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I am more than acquainted with what proper submission format is; I'm questioning why loose leaf is considered proper.

Why loose leaf? What tangible advantage does it offer? What possible disadvantage do binding, folders, and paper clips present? (I already know first-hand why staples are a pain in the ass. Most people are very poor at stapling documents, and end up making the very top corner unreadable. Attempts at removing the staple tend to hurt and damage the paper.)

That said, I've always, to my knowledge, been cordial and polite to you on this particular venue. I'd appreciate the same courtesy in return.

NicoleMD said:

We're talking LASER printers. No ink. Toner.

Nicole

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I've never exactly been clear on the difference. I'm still trying to figure out what happened to ink ribbons.

DamaNegra said:

Easy: toner lasts much, much longer than ink. And it prints faster. That's all you need to know

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Helpful, as always, mi vieja.