Using a second language

dianeP · May 16, 2008

My WIP moves to Hawaii where the locals speak Pidgin. A lot of it is close to English (ovah dere for over there or Bo-da-dem for both of them). Phonetically, the reader can make out the meaning (or am I wrong to assume they will?)

Sample (can anyone tell me what you read in this)

"Ovah dere my baby braddah an sistah."
"Ah, dat cute."
"You dink eriding cute."
"You no like?"

The scenes with Pidgin are relatively short and the dialogue isn't excessive, mostly short phrases like above.

But certain words are completely foreign, like Akamai which is a smart person, or grind for eat. I've used these words sparingly because I didn't want to constantly be translating what one character said, nor leave the reader wondering "What?"

I read a book once that had a strong Scottish dialect, but the author had a note at the end of the book stating that excessive use of the dialect could be confusing for the reader so she'd limited the use and didn't go all crazy using it for every part of every sentence.

Do I have to explain my restrained use of Pidgin?

By the way, is anyone from Hawaii with a knowledge of Pidgin?

murmel · May 16, 2008

I can only speak from my experience with sprinkling in a very different language. You will get yea's and nay's. Somewhere we had a discussion about this issue. You must be aware that everytime you add foreign or foreign looking words to your text, the reader will slow down. That I can guess it by reading aloud doesn't matter here. The brain stumbles over the odd looking words, the subconciousness signals the consciousness that something is wrong and the reading stops.

Some enjoy figuring out what the foreign word means, others hate it. Some editors let you translate it, others ask for a one-time translation.

I think sparsely used it's a good addition, giving flair and authenticity.

auntybug · May 16, 2008

dianeP said:
By the way, is anyone from Hawaii with a knowledge of Pidgin?

I spent from the age 4 to 24 on Maui then lived on Kauai for 2 years.

I can talk li'dat when I have to - like a 2nd language but I try to stay away from it as a habit. Its funny how when I go home - it's like flipping a switch.

eta: When I used Hawaii references in my WIP - like Lanai for deck - I explained what it was. They are things I grew up saying & forget there is another word - like teaching my daughter "pee" instead of shi-shi... "finished" instead of Pau & so on...

We owned a Hawaii theme coffee shop in MN & had a radio station on live broadcast from Maui - the DJ used horrible pidgen. I handed a customer broken cookies and said "here da bugga's stay all buss up"... I knew it was time for regular radio

auntybug · May 16, 2008

dianeP said:
"You dink eriding cute."

BTW - this took me a while. Sounds really strange correcting pidgen...but FWIW...

They would say tink....& ting

"Ho brah, you wen tink everyting stay cute"

I know ...barf... I talk weekly to a few friends - drives hubby crazy hearing it

Tiger is on Oahu - he's probably "more worser" than me

(meaning mo' betta)

I should fetch him for ya

dianeP · May 16, 2008

Pidgin

auntybug said:
"Ho brah, you wen tink everyting stay cute"

I know ...barf... I talk weekly to a few friends - drives hubby crazy hearing it

Tiger is on Oahu - he's probably "more worser" than me (meaning mo' betta)

I should fetch him for ya

I know about the "stay" but that I'm afraid could confuse the reader too much, I only use it once or twice.

But, do you think I should explain myself at the end of the book; why I didn't use every aspect of Pidgin.

auntybug · May 16, 2008

dianeP said:
I know about the "stay" but that I'm afraid could confuse the reader too much, I only use it once or twice.

But, do you think I should explain myself at the end of the book; why I didn't use every aspect of Pidgin.

Language is very iffy... it was funny correcting it - since it's wrong in the 1st place :roll:

It will be tough either way - probably only someone from there will want to correct you.
Inky's book is awesome for the Scottish language. It was tough to get into at 1st but then I loved it. I read another book later set in Scotland & there was nothing for accent & it really bummed me out!
I guess go with what works for you & makes your point across. I can help w/ the pidgin - someone else more knowledgeable will help you with the "should" & "shouldn't".
I didn't use it at all in my book - even though I had my best friend speaking a lot & he is a 100% pidgin talker. It was hard to make him speak clear in my mind! I thought I'd have an agent throw it out if I wrote it the way he talked! "Ho brah...I no go work today..da surf stay up..." *rolls eyes*

girlyswot · May 16, 2008

dianeP said:
But, do you think I should explain myself at the end of the book; why I didn't use every aspect of Pidgin.

I wouldn't worry about that at this stage. Your agent and editor will give you advice about that.

Personally, I wouldn't use too much of the phonetically spelled pidgin. Mention that the characters are speaking with a strong accent that your characters can just about decode, but use the normal English words. I would, however, throw in a few of the completely foreign words - sparingly, as you say you've done. I think that can give a better flavour of the language. Sometimes if the context is clear enough you shouldn't need to translate them at all.

Oasilhael · May 17, 2008

If you're concerned that the reader won't understand, emphasize the actions of the character that's speaking the language. For example, a character could say "Ovah dere my baby braddah an sistah" while pointing to a small boy and girl behind him.

Just my two cents. I don't have experience adding in foreign languages in my story so I may not be the best source, but still.

Using a second language

dianeP

murmel

auntybug

teh other evil broad

auntybug

teh other evil broad

dianeP

auntybug

teh other evil broad

girlyswot

Oasilhael