Modern knock out drugs

veinglory

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Hi all,

I need a method of instantaneous knock out, preferably a modern, reversable pharmaceutical. Any ideas? I think to be instantaneous it probably needs to be a gas?
 

mscelina

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Not necessarily. When I had my artificial disc replacement surgery, I had warned the anesthesiologist that I was extremely hard to knock out. (As in--usually got to -80 when counting backwards from ten while the anesthesiologist looked confused and said "Why in the hell aren't you asleep?")

At any rate, I warned this fine man that I had this history. As usual, he ignored me. I was cracking jokes on the operating table--completely alert and aware--breathing in the gas. The doctor frowned at me and said, "You weren't kidding, were you?"

He pulled out a syringe, grinned, and said "Count backwards from three."

I laughed and said, "Bull--"

--and woke up six hours later. Definitely injectible and not a gas. No clue what it WAS, but there you have it. It was probably propofol, looking at my hospital record.
 

veinglory

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Hmm. iIntravenous might be a problem when wanting to sneak up on someone? I wonder what the effects of injecting it intramuscular would be.... The thing is this one one guy so no one else can be holding the person down.
 

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Injection can actually be easier to do to an unwilling victim than the gases which are often given in combinations and are not instantaneous. I really think the injection would be easier to administer.
 

GeorgeK

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He pulled out a syringe, .... It was probably propofol, looking at my hospital record.

What color was the liquid in the syringe? As far as the pain of injecting propofol
IV, most Anasthesiologists I've worked with add a little lidocaine to it to block the pain.
 
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GeorgeK

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Hi all,

I need a method of instantaneous knock out, preferably a modern, reversable pharmaceutical. Any ideas? I think to be instantaneous it probably needs to be a gas?


Narcan reverses narcotics, and Reversed reverses benzodiazepines. Time and a healthy body reverses most of the other things. The problem with reversal agents is sometimes they breakdown faster than the original drug's metabolites. So if a whopping dose is given of drug X to snow them under quickly and then a reversal agent is used. They may wake up for 10-30 minutes and then start to get knocked out again when the reversal agent is gone, but secondary metabolites of the drug are still present. When you deal with dosages of that magnitude, depending upon the drugs, the person etc, it is possible that they can get so deep that they can not breathe on their own due to an unprotected airway or paralyzed diaphragm and chest wall muscles.

I'd suggest not using a named drug, but a ficticious one. Also most drugs when mixed with alchohol will have a stronger effect, but again, there's the whole protecting the airway thing. You probably are too young to remember Karen Ann Quinlan
 

mscelina

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What color was the liquid in the syringe? As far as the pain of injecting propofol
IV, most Anasthesiologists I've worked with add a little lidocaine to it to block the pain.

Dude,

After receiving my last rites that morning, I was strapped onto a surgical table, after several rounds of pre-procedure sedatives in my system, while the general surgeon prepared to gut me and the neurologist readied the chisels and jack to pry open my spine and scrape out my L4-L5 disc. Believe me when I tell you that I have no idea what color the medication was.

I may have been a little too wound up at the time to notice. ;)
 

veinglory

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I don't mean an injection per se, I mean this drug seems to require an injection into a vein. I doubt an assailant can hit a vein. With me the nurse can hit a vein in less than a minute even with me cooperating.
 

GeorgeK

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I don't mean an injection per se, I mean this drug seems to require an injection into a vein. I doubt an assailant can hit a vein. With me the nurse can hit a vein in less than a minute even with me cooperating.

There are pneumatic innoculation guns, not unlike what they used on the old Star Trek. There are no needles. It uses compressed CO2 cartridges to blast the stuff right through the skin. The makers say it's painless, but those I know who have used them say they do hurt and will leave a bruise. I've personlally never seen one in use. My understanding is that they are primarily used now in Third World countries for mass vaccinations.
 

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Regarding propofol, it needs to be IV and yes, it stings quite a bit even when mixed with a little lidocaine. The volume needed for anesthetic induction is fairly high, too -- a typical 70 kg person takes 7-8 mL of the stuff to go under. It does work within seconds and wears off in a couple minutes. However, rapid IV doses, such as we use to induce anesthesia, do tend to make the person stop breathing. That's not a problem in the operating room -- it would probably be bad for your plot, though. (In case you're wondering what we do when the propofol wears off, we generally start anesthetic gas before the patient awakens and then continue to keep the patient asleep with gas: it's much more unpleasant to be anesthetized with gas then with an IV drug.)

Anything you would inject into a muscle (such as a narcotic or ketamine) takes a couple of minutes at least to work, even with a monster dose. Overall, I can't think of anything that would suit your needs of a non-IV drug with immediate action and rapid reversability. As George suggests, you might just make something up or not specify what it is.