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View Full Version : An Assasination gun for a 12yr old.



BlueLucario
05-05-2008, 12:26 AM
I'm writing a scene where my character buys a weapon from a peddler(There aren't any gun stores that do business with underage kids.). She's an assassin/bounty hunter/vigilante. Lily loves guns, she has a glock pistol that she stole from a cop, which was thought that police guns are for amateurs. And she also has a Desert Eagle, which she wants to have a go at, but it has recoil strong enough to crack her wrists. But I'm looking for something cool for her, maybe with a silencer.

I haven't any knowledge of firearms. So if possible, can you recommend me a good gun, maybe something w/o recoil?

Is it possible to have automatic handguns?

MODS: If you find this post inappropriate, I apologize. Please let me know and feel free to delete it.
I tried Yahoo answers, but I keep getting my question deleted, and I keep getting insults.

dpaterso
05-05-2008, 12:49 AM
I'd suggest a .22 calibre handgun, since the smaller the caliber the less harsh the recoil (as a rule of thumb). Plus, the gun is smaller and lighter therefore easier to carry and conceal.

I did a Google search for .22 handguns and half a million results popped up, this link was at the top and gives a choice of .22 pistols:

http://www.gundirectory.com/body.asp?gun=Pistol&pp=1&sort=-3&ammoID=220&ammo=.22%20LR&ammoD=.22+Long+Rifle

-Derek

A.M. Wildman
05-05-2008, 12:59 AM
Although a .22 would work it would have several drawbacks. The biggest one being adequate stopping power.

You'd also need perfect shot placement from extreme close range to ensure a kill.

a 9mm wouldn't be much more recoil than your average .22.

WriteKnight
05-05-2008, 01:09 AM
Oddly enough, I was watching CSI vegas the other night, and they were dealing with a Pro Assasin, who used a small .22 caliber handgun for CLOSE UP hits. In other words, in the head from close range. Firing .22 shorts because they were 'virtually silent' - like a cap pistol.

This might be something a trained 'child' assasin could use. A small .22, and rely on the ability to get close to the subject - "She's just a child, what harm can she do?" - pull out the small handgun and...

So, for whatever it's worth - the good folks at CSI have provided a possible sollution.

dpaterso
05-05-2008, 01:13 AM
I've seen old gun hands just pop out the eyes of range targets from 15-20 feet away with a .22 and chuckle at how easy the little gun was to handle. That's got to be good news to a 12-year-old girl assassin. :)

Detective and gangster fiction often features the classic double tap (walk up behind the victim, touch the barrel to his head behind the ear, pull the trigger). A smaller .22 bullet rattles around inside the skull but isn't powerful enough to exit leaving a mess.

-Derek

A.M. Wildman
05-05-2008, 01:34 AM
I've seen old gun hands just pop out the eyes of range targets from 15-20 feet away with a .22 and chuckle at how easy the little gun was to handle. That's got to be good news to a 12-year-old girl assassin. :)

Key there is "old gun hands" somebody like me that has literally thousands of rounds and hours under our belts.

Trust me. Shooting range targets and shooting humans are two distinctly different things.


Detective and gangster fiction often features the classic double tap (walk up behind the victim, touch the barrel to his head behind the ear, pull the trigger). A smaller .22 bullet rattles around inside the skull but isn't powerful enough to exit leaving a mess.

-Derek

Ah yes but in both of those the victims are always completely unsuspecting. Honestly, books and movies aside, the last thing you ever want to do is be close enough to the target to touch them with the barrel.

That's a good way to get shot with your own gun.

I could see a long time pro opting for a .22 in very particular circumstances. Not somebody who's just starting out more or less.

IF you want to use a .22. Take a Ruger Mark II file the front sight off and thread the barrel for a suppressor. A good one, "off the books" not from a dealer will cost you in the neighborhood of $3,000. You'll want a slightly longish one with good baffles. Load with center-fire short rifle rounds. Coat moving parts with a thin layer of silicone. Shouldn't be any louder than a finger snap, if that.


She'll need some practice with the suppressor on as it will make the gun a bit nose heavy, and it will change the sight/impact picture.

Horseshoes
05-05-2008, 03:31 AM
I don't understand this:
"she has a glock pistol that she stole from a cop, which was thought that police guns are for amateurs."
The Glock was inadequate? I carried a .45 Glock, others used their 9, the .40 and the 10mm...any of these 4 Glocks are man-stoppers.

Ya, the DE has a kick, but anyone firing properly, even a 12 yo, can handle it. It isn't going to crack her wrists--especially if, by crack, you mean fracture.

hammerklavier
05-05-2008, 06:03 AM
I once made a blowgun from a length of copper pipe and some nails, I was around 12 at the time.

IceCreamEmpress
05-05-2008, 06:14 AM
And she also has a Desert Eagle

Why would she have a weapon she couldn't possibly fire accurately in quick succession (assuming she's an average-sized 12-year-old)? Using a heavy gun with that much recoil seems like a poor choice.

If I were writing a child assassin, I'd give her a Glock 18c, because it has very little recoil. Also, the 18c isn't commercially available in the US, so it has an aura of cool for that reason alone.

akiwiguy
05-05-2008, 06:36 AM
Although a .22 would work it would have several drawbacks. The biggest one being adequate stopping power.

You'd also need perfect shot placement from extreme close range to ensure a kill.

a 9mm wouldn't be much more recoil than your average .22.

Way out of my technical depth here, but just something has always stuck in my mind on a documentary I saw about (quite a famous shoot-out) two guys who got cornered in their pickup and had a long gun fight with several police. When it eventually ended, at least one policeman had been killed, but these guys had been fighting for something like half an hour whilst literally riddled with bullets.

Anyway, it was explained by a forensics guy that someone drops when either a vital organ is hit, or they collapse from blood loss. As you are saying AWM, not always as simple as vaguely shooting someone and they drop to the ground, game over, as we picture from movies or whatever.

CalGrave
05-05-2008, 06:36 AM
I'd assume from the the using the Desert Eagle and thinking Glocks are "amateur cop" weapons could be seen as a product of her 12 year old naivety. Just because she's some kind of expert killer doesn't mean she couldn't be a silly kid at heart who learns things from TV. That said it depends on the setting. If this is a SF or the kind of thing where you can get whatever gun you want and they aren't rare, you have a lot of options.
I could see a dinky, dirty, and used Makarov as something she could get from a street dealer.

Or in keeping with my impression above I could see her using a Walter PPK James Bond's former gun. Something you'd see on TV, small somewhat feminine even.

BlueLucario
05-05-2008, 03:14 PM
Sweet!

Yeah, in that world, cop guns are for amateurs. But Lily does have a Glock 19. You know those guns used in the VT shooting?

.22 is a revolver right? Like those things you see in Westerns?

dpaterso
05-05-2008, 03:20 PM
Yeah, in that world, cop guns are for amateurs. But Lily does have a Glock 19. You know those guns used in the VT shooting?
Glocks are pretty common, used by police and security forces everywhere. Please don't talk about the Virginia Tech shooting as if it's cool.


.22 is a revolver right? Like those things you see in Westerns?
No.

-Derek

BlueLucario
05-05-2008, 03:26 PM
Glocks are pretty common, used by police and security forces everywhere. Please don't talk about the Virginia Tech shooting as if it's cool.


No.

-Derek

I'm only talking about the gun used. Sorry if VT offends you.

WriteKnight
05-05-2008, 05:51 PM
.22 handguns can be revolvers. Keep in mind, revolvers can't be silenced, as the gas/sound still escapes at the join between cylinders and barrel.

BlueLucario
05-05-2008, 06:36 PM
Oddly enough, I was watching CSI vegas the other night, and they were dealing with a Pro Assasin, who used a small .22 caliber handgun for CLOSE UP hits. In other words, in the head from close range. Firing .22 shorts because they were 'virtually silent' - like a cap pistol.

This might be something a trained 'child' assasin could use. A small .22, and rely on the ability to get close to the subject - "She's just a child, what harm can she do?" - pull out the small handgun and...

So, for whatever it's worth - the good folks at CSI have provided a possible sollution.


Sweet! How small is this .22 caliber? Is it like one of those Men in Black guns?(Stupid question sorry.)

She's an expertise at firearms, no idea why. What about a micro uzi?


Also, if possible can you post a picture of the gun you're suggesting and the information on it? Like, gun capacity and stuff?

You guys are right, maybe a glock is a good idea, but I lack the info on it. I know it only takes about two seconds to reload the "magazine clip" but I don't know the capacity of the Glock 18 or 19.

dpaterso
05-05-2008, 06:52 PM
Did you try clicking on that link in post #2 above? The site also includes a list of gun manufacturers in the left column, including Glock. This info is all over the internet, you really need to work on your Google Fu skills.

-Derek

WriteKnight
05-05-2008, 06:53 PM
The gun they showed on CSI was a very small, snub-nosed .22 caliber revolver. They pointed out that shooting with 'shorts' would be 'virtually silent' - in other words, in terms of sounds on the street - it would sound like a cap pistol - not like a .44 magnum. (In the old days, shooting galleries at amusement parks fired .22 shorts. Back in high school, on the ROTC firing range which was indoors, we fired .22 shorts.) They DO make a loud 'crack' - it's not "Phht" like a silenced weapon -As I said, a revolver cannot be 'silenced' with a silencer - the gas escapes from the boundary between the cylinder and the barrel. But in terms of drawing attention - "I heard shots being fired" by a witness on a loud street??? They might miss it.

Yeah, it was a tiny gun - easily conceled - an ankle holster backup sort of thing.

You can google up - .22 caliber revolver - images on Google to see what comes up.

BlueLucario
05-05-2008, 08:12 PM
Did you try clicking on that link in post #2 above? The site also includes a list of gun manufacturers in the left column, including Glock. This info is all over the internet, you really need to work on your Google Fu skills.

-Derek

I can't if the site's blocked from where I am(never mind that). And I took a look at it on google images, and most of them looked like revolvers.

Summonere
05-05-2008, 10:00 PM
Most popular suppressed .22 pistol these days seems to be the Walther P22, a jim-dandy-sized pistol for a 12 year old kid. It's a small and light pistol. Here's a Googled link pulled off the information superhighway:

http://www.lauerweaponry.com/item-detail.cfm?ID=LCWSWPP&storeid=1&image=p22black.gif&CFID=19504827&CFTOKEN=81401056

If that doesn't work for you, try:

http://www.lauerweaponry.com/

...then click on FIREARMS/SUPPRESORS at the top of the page. From the drop-down menu, select "Suppressed Walther P22". That should give you about six choices to look at.

Ruger Mark II pistols have been very popular, too, and Browning Buckmark pistols. Here's a picture of the latter, with suppressor:

http://lundestudio.com/wallpaper/buckmark-tacsol-aac-left-flat-hi.jpg

Hard-core terminologists insist that everyone call silencers suppressors, so this might be a minor useful detail for your assassin.

Pretty much the only thing you'll hear with a good suppressor is slide chatter as it opens and closes during firing, at least if Lily uses subsonic rounds. Otherwise there'll be a sharp cracking sound as the wee bullet breaks the sound barrier.

YouTube hosts a number of videos demonstrating silenced and unsilenced pistols. Here's a link to one of them...

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zZY5Y0Gjtug

Shooter appears to be about the age of your character Lily. You'll notice that there is virtually no recoil, she's shooting a Walther P22 (latter half of the video), and she's shooting from a very de rigueur thumbs-forward isosceles stance, leans back (which she shouldn't), loses contact with the trigger during the trigger cycle (which she also shouldn't), and hasn't quite gotten the hang of firing from trigger reset (which probably explains inconsistent trigger contact). Good news, though, is the kid seems to be having fun, and safely, too. (I make the minor critique because these are things that Lily would know.)

Oh, and yes, it is entirely possible to have fully automatic handguns. Glock 18 is one such. Once again, you can find numerous YouTube videos showing them in action.

Happy writing. : )

JamieFord
05-05-2008, 10:17 PM
"Richie loved to use 22s because the bullets are small and they don't come out the other end like a 45. See, a 45 will blow a barn door out the back of your head and there's a lot of dry cleaning involved, but a 22 will just rattle around like Pac-Man until you're dead."

--Steve Martin, My Blue Heaven


I don't think I could explain it any better.

BlueLucario
05-05-2008, 11:42 PM
I checked out Derek's link. It was pretty awesome.

I didn't know Glock pistols last that long. 10-19 rounds. And I heard it only takes about 5 seconds to reload.
And according to the site DEagles weigh about 2-4lbs. I can't find any info on recoil. They don't last as long as Glocks.

I also found the Cobra HP22 and the Walther TPH. Which are very small weapons, like those Men in Black guns. I think those two are .22s.

JamieFord, you explained it just fine.

nevada
05-06-2008, 06:19 AM
she could use an submachine gun no problem. dont need a mini-uzi for that. there are thousands of children in africa as young as 8 yrs old forced to use AK-47's.

rtilryarms
05-06-2008, 11:18 PM
You didn't hear this from me but the most popular professional assassin handgun is (was) the Beretta 22LR semi automatic. Many were "destroyed" in WWII but were really diverted to the underground. And had silencers and were referred to as improvised.
Israeli Special Forces favored these weapons when the Mossad was assigned to infiltrate, seek out and kill the suspected terrorists - Black September - of the olympic massacre of their athletes at the Olympic games in Munich.

Many ops were carried out using these weapons.

They are accurate, have interchangeable barrels for close-up or long range and they are extremely compact and have only a mild kick.

The "destroyed" weapons have Italian military markings by the trigger guard.

JB_Finesse
05-07-2008, 08:34 AM
A mini uzi is small, light and all that, but it's really hard for even an adult to control in full auto. An MP5K would be a much better choice. Same 30 round capacity, still pretty light, but much easier to control and it has a foregrip.

http://img374.imageshack.us/img374/3713/galaxymp5ktm0.gif

As for reloading speed, it depends on the skill of the person and where they keep their magazines. To reload you have to release the empty mag, shove a loaded one in, and cock the bolt (or slide, for pistols) to get another round in the chamber. This can be done in less than 5 seconds. However, most people wouldn't discard the empty one if they didn't have to. Magazines can be reused (loading in the individual bullets, not recommended in combat), and they cost money.

BlueLucario
05-07-2008, 05:10 PM
Sweet. I though AK-47's are dangerous to use. They can make your ears pop.

BlueLucario
05-13-2008, 01:43 AM
I found a video about the desert eagle.
http://youtube.com/watch?v=dFJjaj7pXsA

BlueLucario
06-05-2008, 05:02 PM
Also, is it true that you can switch from semi-auto to auto using the glock 18?

CalGrave
06-06-2008, 11:28 AM
Yes. I'd suggest you'd educate yourself on a variety of modern firearms here. It's helped me through the years. Here is the glock article.

http://world.guns.ru/handguns/hg15-e.htm

BlueLucario
06-12-2008, 12:48 AM
Ownage! Thanks! Is there anything besides the Glock that can do that too? Maybe something more powerful?

CalGrave
06-12-2008, 04:06 AM
http://world.guns.ru/handguns/hg51-e.htm

Summonere
06-12-2008, 04:32 AM
Ownage! Thanks! Is there anything besides the Glock that can do that too? Maybe something more powerful?

That probably depends on what you mean by "more powerful." For instance, installation of a fire selector system on any Glock pistol gives you the option of firing in semi-auto mode or full-auto. Now your caliber options open up (meaning you're no longer restricted to the G18): 9mm, .40 caliber, .357SIG, .45 GAP, .45 ACP, 10mm. It's the latter one, here, that's the big boy on the block.

An outfit called FSSG Fire Selector System for Glock Pistols (http://www.fss-g.com/) makes just such a gadget.

The Beretta Model 93R (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Beretta_93R)is a select-fire version of the Beretta 92 that was designed to fire in 3-round bursts. It fires 9mm.

Same caliber is used in the CZ 75 select-fire variant. It and other select-fire pistols can be found here (http://www.personaldefenceweapons.com/similar_weapons/machine_pistols/machine_pistols.htm), but I'm not aware of any popular ones that fire calibers larger than 9mm.

LordMauser
01-05-2009, 11:59 PM
Okay, before you go on with finding a new gun for her, you may want to reconsider what guns she already has. Finding a Glock on a cop sounds reasonable, but as far as assassinations go, she would be much better off with a 1911. Also, just for the record, a Desert Eagle is a .50 pistol. The smallest round it comes chambered for is the .357 Magnum. That being said, if she's 12... Firing the gun would likely shatter her arm. If you just want it for the way it looks, or for some other aesthetic value, then might I suggest the Jericho? It's a 9mm version of the Desert Eagle. Okay, so, moving on to your question, for an assassins pistol, the Fabrique Nationale FiveSeven fires 5.7x28mm ammunition, which is infamous for being the same type of round that the P90 submachine gun uses to chew through bodyarmor like tissue paper. Sorry for the shitstorm of suggestions and technical psycho babble. XD Hope this helps!

P.S. Realistically, a 12 year old would never be able to handle a fully automatic weapon.

redpbass
01-06-2009, 03:26 AM
P.S. Realistically, a 12 year old would never be able to handle a fully automatic weapon.


This is pretty much correct. A poor kid died recently when he lost control of the Micro Uzi he was using at some sort of gun show (or something like that...it's been a while). Then again, a kid big for his age who knows what he is doing shouldn't have too much trouble with some of the less powerful ones. And firing a fully automatic weapon does not happen like it does on TV, where someone fires a straight line of bullets. The recoil will make a big difference, jerking the gun upward and such.


Anyway, I suggest you find a gun range somewhere that will let you rent different types of guns with lots of supervision. Take some classes if possible, that sort of thing. If you're writing a story with a lot of gun use, it's best to have some first hand experience.

Calixus
01-10-2009, 04:20 AM
I think the gun you are searching for is the Kahr PM9. It is a Polymer double action only pistol that uses Lugar 9mm bullets, and is one of the smallest polymer-framed pistols available. The gun is light weight, about a pound sans bullets, and has a handle so short that most men can only use two fingers on it. The literature states that it takes 200 rounds to break it in but then becomes a very reliable, smooth actioned pistol. It uses clips, not a revolver, and while the muzzle "snaps" up with firing it rapidly returns to the target. It only takes around 7 pounds of pressure to get the trigger to fire, so a child of 12 would have no problems pulling it.

Here is the website for the info I listed above. http://kahr.com/PA-1B/review_ar_1004.html

I usually google tactical info about SWAT and can find just about anything from handguns to Stinger Missle information there. Maybe helpful in the future for you. Hope this helps.