Submitting in the UK

mistri

Sneezy Member
Super Member
Registered
Joined
Feb 12, 2005
Messages
533
Reaction score
62
Location
UK
Website
www.livejournal.com
Does anyone here have experience of submitting children's fiction in the UK?

I've got a couple of ideas I've had in the back of my mind for years, and I'd like to work on them, but I know the market far less well than I do for fantasy books, for example.

I want to write a book in what I think would be in the 5-7/8/9 age range, and around 8k long. An old copy of the Writers' and Artists' Yearbook tells me that there are a few imprints that accept that amount for that sort of age range.

But really, I'm just interested in other people's experiences - I've never found many forums that talk about UK submissions specifically. Do you prefer to look for an agent or publisher first, for example. Out of my list of potential publishers I think only three accept submissions, but I am tempted to try them before an agent for some reason (possibly because I want to throw my fantasy novel at agents, then publishers).
 

Zolah

Over the hills and far away
Super Member
Registered
Joined
Apr 7, 2005
Messages
465
Reaction score
83
Location
England
Website
www.zoemarriott.com
Submitting Fiction in the UK

If you're writing children's fiction it's usually best to find a publisher first. Quite a few children's publishers accept (and in fact welcome) unsolicited ms, while UK agents aren't that interested in unpublished writers on the whole. Before I got my first contract, I had loads of nice, personal, encouraging letters from editors. I had nothing but stock rejections from agents. Editors are interested in talent. Agents are interested in money (and talent too, if they're any good, but not if it won't make them money).

It's generally accepted that the best way to go about things is to find a publisher, then pick the agent of your choice and say: 'I have a contract - are you interested in representing me?' This will save you time and postage, trust me.

The first thing you need to do is get hold of a copy of the 2005 Writer's Handbook. A copy more than year old will be full of misinformation that will not do you any good. Buy a used copy if it sounds a bit pricey - abebooks and amazon both have them. Then go through and highlight all the options. I think there should be about half a dozen, from my experience. Good luck!
 

mistri

Sneezy Member
Super Member
Registered
Joined
Feb 12, 2005
Messages
533
Reaction score
62
Location
UK
Website
www.livejournal.com
I do need to buy an updated Writer's Yearbook or Handbook. Part of me's tempted to wait until August now, when the new editions come out.

Thanks for the advice!
 

Zolah

Over the hills and far away
Super Member
Registered
Joined
Apr 7, 2005
Messages
465
Reaction score
83
Location
England
Website
www.zoemarriott.com
That would save you a bit of money, if you can wait that long. In the meantime, you could always use the internet to look up the publishers of books you admire. Most publisher websites have a submissions page - it just means you'll need to phone them to find out the editor's name.
 

mumatwork

Sign up for SCBWI newsletters

hi, i've been submitting in the UK for some time now and recently the writer's and artists year book and the writer's handbook issued children's writing versions.

however, i find that the most useful resource is still the world market survey produced by the society for children's book writers (compiled by paris based writer sandra guy). this is the most detailed info you can get, down to section editors names. unfortunately, it hasn't been updated in two years so you will still have to cross-check the info with the writers handbook or the writers and artists handbook.

the other useful thing to do, if you live on a different continent is get a hold of the british scbwi newsletter "words and pictures", which is full of up to date information about the market and trends in the UK. the french scbwi also produce a really good newsletter called "expressions" which is full of meat about children's publishing in english across europe. there is a scbwi online newsletter ( http://groups.yahoo.com/group/expression_online ) that really keeps you up to date on trends, movers and shakers, awards and competitions.

you might also check out my blog Notes from the Slush Pile (http://candygourlay/blog), which includes reportage of workshops, talks, conferences on children's writing in and around the UK. the UK market is very different culturally from the US market (for example, query letters are seen as time-wasting in the UK) and editors and agents really appreciate it when a writer can show that he or she has done the homework needed to get to grips with the industry.

good luck!

candy
 

mumatwork

"Query letters are an American thing"

The children's publishing culture in the UK is swinging very much closer to adult publishing. Over here, publishing houses are beginning to discard slush piles and rely on agented submissions. This removes the middle layer where the query letter has a function. UK Editors who still keep slush piles like to say they'd rather delve straight into the manuscript instead of debate the merits of a good query letter. The covering letter one submits in this case provides clues to the book's marketing potential rather than signposting the author's literary skill. When we pressed one editor about query letters at a SCBWI event here in the UK, she said: "Query letters are an American thing."

On the other hand, covering letters are crucial in submissions to agents. According to agent Rosemary Canter: "A good letter will show your personality, wit, style, lyricism – I’d like to give one piece of advice to writers looking for an agent: the letter you send is also a piece of writing”. You can read more of her advice to writers at the SCBWI conference in Spain 2003 in my report: What JK Rowling (And Didn't Do) for Us

regards,

Candy Gourlay
 

mumatwork

More stuff on getting published in the UK

For those looking at the British market, I've posted more reportage on getting published in the UK in my blog, based on a talk by Kelly Cauldwell of Random House UK:

Publishing is about selling too
Writers must face up to the reality of the publishing marketplace. On publishers looking for a product rather than a talent. And the rise of writing to order.

Trends in the children's book market 2005
Fantasy is still going strong even though publishing stomachs turn when yet another manuscript about dragons land on their doorsteps. "Its popularity makes fantasy harder to publish!"

How to look at your work with commercial eyes
You need a catchy answer to the question, "what's it about?" Publishers loved it when Eoin Colfer (Artemus Fowl) submitted his manuscript with the catchline: "Die Hard With Fairies" and went on to become a millionaire. Beat that.
 

mistri

Sneezy Member
Super Member
Registered
Joined
Feb 12, 2005
Messages
533
Reaction score
62
Location
UK
Website
www.livejournal.com
First time I've looked at this thread in an age, and thanks for all the useful info and links - this is great! :)
 

Susan Pevensie

Registered
Joined
Oct 13, 2005
Messages
10
Reaction score
2
Location
London, UK

Kord

The UK children's publishing world is in a strange state at the moment. On the one hand, it's never had it so good: J K Rowling, Philip Pullman and a few other (mostly fantasy) writers have raised the profile of children's books and brought in lots of cash. On the other hand, for the majority of UK children's authors, times have never been harder. As with most things, the industry is top-loading its budgets, promoting hard the one or two books that it thinks will sell in big numbers. But for most of the mid-list authors, it's becoming a struggle to survive – royalties get chipped away at, Book Clubs take books sooner than they used to and pay the author peanuts – all of which wouldn't be so bad if their books at least made it into the shops, but this is becoming rarer. The majority of children's writers are female, many middle-aged and they grew up as writers at a time when women weren't expected to be the main household bread-winner. The same goes for children's editors. But, at least 20 years ago editors made the decision on what got published, and then worked with their writers to edit the best book that could be written. Now, publishers don't spend money on editing and it's the sales committee that decides what to publish, so the new author has a start choice: produce a well-written and well-edited mid-list book all by himself, or aim right at the top end of the market, when he will need gimmicks, luck, contacts and a sellable personal story.



The sad thing is that this 'branding' that sells the top list titles is also filtering down to the mid-list authors. Publishers now put a lot of pressure on a new mid-list author to produce the same kind of book again and again, so he or she can be more easily branded. So, the author dilutes his talent to oblige and, surprise surprise, his second or third book doesn't sell anyway and he's ditched by the publisher.



Meanwhile, that large group of middle-class, middle-to-old age, mid-list authors who were taught how to edit by their editors are now dying off/giving up. In time, no one will be editing properly – signs of which can already be seen, particularly at the best-selling end of the market. I guess the question is, does it matter? Many readers don't seem to notice or care these days.



Most UK imprints are now owned by just a few massive publishers. The truth is that it's almost impossible to get your manuscript accepted by a publisher, unless it's come through an agent. Publishers' editors are reluctant, in any case, to encourage and/or work with a new author for the simple reason that, as noted above, they can't promise to publish them.


Kord
 

Zolah

Over the hills and far away
Super Member
Registered
Joined
Apr 7, 2005
Messages
465
Reaction score
83
Location
England
Website
www.zoemarriott.com
Kord, that's a very depressing picture you paint. As someone who has been involved in the publishing industry in the UK over these past few years I can tell you that a lot of the stuff you're stating as fact here is not entirely true. Using myself as an example:
  1. As an unpublished writer I found a publisher without an agent (and that was not in The Good Old Days, which, if they ever existed, must have been very long ago).
  2. My editor has spent untold hours working with me (via email and phone)on both structural and line edits of my mss and we have immense fun doing so - in fact I was paid money to undertake extensive re-writing on my first ms.
  3. My editor is about 27. And male. And the best damn editor in the world as far as I'm concerned.
  4. The publishing company that took me on is completely independent, and one of the most successful and respected children's publishing firms in the UK.
  5. I neither aimed at the top or the bottom of the market. I wrote the story I loved and believed in - and lo and behold! The VERY FIRST PUBLISHER and the VERY FIRST AGENT I sent it to, both loved it too. It might have helped that after I finished it I did a lot of thinking about possible target readers for the book, and where it would fit into the market, so that I could speak intelligently and convincingly on the subject of how the book might sell. But in the end the editor and his boss fell in love with a literary re-telling of an obscure fairytale, not The Next Harry Potter. That wasn't the first ms I finished mind...but then, just because my very first ms got rejected (a LOT) that doesn't mean there's something fundamentally wrong with the whole publishing industry. It might just be that there was something fundamentally wrong with my ms...
So cheer up. I do not have a saleable personal story, I am not a celebrity, I'm not 14 years old or stunningly gorgeous and somehow I managed to get a debut novel which was not in any way bestseller material published (on pretty good terms) in the current UK ch's market. Wheeeeeee! It can be done.
 
Last edited:

Kord

Zolah!



Thanks for the advice to cheer up but I wasn't feeling depressed actually, just keen on seeing how things actually work. Well done for getting a book contract. I'd be interested to know the name of this 'completely independent' publishing company you're with, since most of the smaller companies in the UK are connected to the bigger ones in one way or another, e.g. Chicken House with Scholastic, David Fickling with Random House.

I was of course speaking of the general picture of children's publishing in the UK. I don't know if you went to the recent Society of Authors' children's writers' conference in Oxford, but if you did, and if you'd spent time talking to the authors, you'd have found that the outline I gave is a simple reflection of what most of them feel. Publishers don't, of course, always see things the same way. For example, David Fickling gave a very funny closing speech, shamelessly plugging his own authors at frequent intervals. One of them is Jan Mark, one of the most respected and independent children's writers in the UK. After his talk, a man from Ottakers stood up to challenge David's main theme – 'write it and they will come', i.e. as a writer, you just need to write a good book and the readers will find it – by informing us of just how difficult it is to get books by mid-list authors on to Ottaker's shelves; and that even Jan Mark's latest wasn't being given space there.



Kord
 

Susan Pevensie

Registered
Joined
Oct 13, 2005
Messages
10
Reaction score
2
Location
London, UK
Zolah,


Many congratulations on your success! I have to say though that I think your case is the exception rather than the rule and that Kord's view of the state of UK publishing is the accepted one. It is harder than ever to find an agent, let alone a publisher, as the writer is competing against so many others for so very few places. I met with a picture book editor recently who said she has had to turn down books she really loves because she can't get them past the rather ruthless sales team.

I wish you all the best though and will think of you when my rejection pile gets ever higher. There is hope!!

S
 

Grey Malkin

Moody Member
Super Member
Registered
Joined
Oct 11, 2005
Messages
155
Reaction score
30
Some conflicting opinions here, which gives us all hope, because there are authors out there who don't use agents (Isaac Asimov once said he never had one - not sure about now though), so there is definitely a way into the market by pitching direct to publishing houses,and Zolah, you sound like proof of that. But... I get the feeling that you might have been the lucky exception. My reason is this: small independent publishers don't have the resources to wade through unsolicited material. A friend of mine who is the MD of a an independant publishing house in the UK insists that this is the case with the all of the publishers he has close contacts with (independents, that is). Anything unsolicited that comes through the door simply goes onto a pile, is left for two or three weeks, then returned if it came with a SAE. If it didn't have a SAE, then it gets binned. Sounds harsh, sounds unfair, but the smaller the firm, the less time they have to scan through a thousand manuscripts for that one gem.
 

Grey Malkin

Moody Member
Super Member
Registered
Joined
Oct 11, 2005
Messages
155
Reaction score
30
They do close their doors to it. They still receive the scripts. That's why the only solution is to dump them in the corner and take an hour out, once a month, to open them, put them back in the SAE and send them back. It's not a nice situation, but it's from the horse's mouth.
 

Grey Malkin

Moody Member
Super Member
Registered
Joined
Oct 11, 2005
Messages
155
Reaction score
30
I agree. It's essential to do your homework. That way, you write a personal letter to the editor and ask if they would consider looking at a sample of your work. If they say no, you've only spent pennies on a stamp, if they say yes then you have a name to direct your submission to.

Grey