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View Full Version : The newspaper I work for ran a glowing article about Publish America...



Bartholomew
04-29-2008, 04:59 AM
Full Article (http://ledger.jccc.edu/index.php?option=com_content&view=article&catid=38:People&id=467:abigail-in-wonderland-&Itemid=73) (Give it time to load)


... has accomplished what many writers only dream of doing. She caught the attention of a publisher after writing her first manuscript.

She did it younger and faster than most, too. Eighteen year old Linhardt has not yet graduated from high school.

“I was doing school one day and it hit me that I should try,” [she] said. “It seemed that it was like trying suicide.”

Publish America will publish [her] first novel “Dark Generations: Rise of the Mage Knight” this summer. She started writing the second and third sequels to “Dark Generations”shortly after completing the first novel.

...

When she started researching publishers at 16 years old, most wanted to charge her $1000 for publishing the book. She sent her novel to Publish America which promised a review of “Dark Generation” and answer in three to six weeks. She got her contract in five days.


I am furious about this article running in our newspaper. The reporter didn't research Publish America--neither did the editors. They just ran the article without checking anything. They apparently don't even understand the difference between vanity publishers and publishing houses--they're making it sound like the poor girl landed a sale with Del-Rey, and the truth of the matter is that she's now got this horrible pox to deal with.

The editors won't listen to me--the opinion seems to be that, as long as someone out-of-house doesn't complain, it isn't a problem... but they take complaint emails very seriously.


Help me out, huh? If enough complaints flow in, they'll run a correction, or even a counter article next issue. There aren't a lot of writing savy people on campus, and if this article doesn't get corrected, it may sucker more people into going to PA to get published.

campusledger@gmail.com

Hint. Hint.

Plot Device
04-29-2008, 05:11 AM
SNAIL MAIL!

SEND SNAIL MAIL!!!



I think it is the duty of EVERYONE here to inundate that newspaper with mail--but NOT e-mail--SNAIL MAIL!!!

Snail mail is a pain in the ass to handle. This travesty needs to be made into a ROYAL pain the ass --the likes of which that editor will regret for ever.

Plot Device
04-29-2008, 05:15 AM
Here's that snail mail addresss:

Campus Ledger News
ATTN: Senior Editor Miguel Morales (no longer EIC, see below!)
Johnson County Community College
12345 College Blvd.,
Overland Park, KS 66210-1299,
913-469-8500


NOW GET WRITING AND STAMP-LICKING, EVERYONE!




But if you REALLY wanna do the e-mail thing .........


mmorales@jccc.edu (no nger EIC, see below!)


::EDIT::

Bart said Morales is no longer at that paper.

So ...

EDITOR IN CHIEF: Alexia Stout (no e-mail available)
(sombody) Jen Harris (no e-mail available)
MANAGING EDITOR: Linda Freidel lfriedel@jccc.edu
FACULTY ADVISOR: Anne Christianson-Bullers abullers@jccc.edu


My bet is that bugging that faculty advisor (Anne Christianson) is the best route to take.













.

Plot Device
04-29-2008, 05:45 AM
Well, that boils me blood just a wee bit.

Should this be over in the Publish America forum so it gets maximum coverage?


I second that motion.

Bartholomew
04-29-2008, 05:46 AM
Here's that snail mail addresss:

Johnson County Community College
12345 College Blvd.,
Overland Park, KS 66210-1299,
913-469-8500


NOW GET WRITING AND STAMP-LICKING, EVERYONE!

Email DOES work with these guys. :)

But if you're sending snail mail, (Which would be AWESOME), make sure you address it specifically to the Campus Ledger, or it won't find its way to us.

Shady Lane
04-29-2008, 05:50 AM
That is disgusting.

Bothers me especially since it focuses on a teenager.

stormie
04-29-2008, 05:57 AM
It's interesting. My first publisher was small. Very small. I couldn't get into the local newspapers with my book no matter how hard I tried. But guess what? They constantly run articles about "authors" who are pubbed by PA or Dorrance (a vanity press where you have to pay thousands) and how these publishers gave them the "chance that they deserve."

That teenager will get a wake-up call within a few years. I feel sorry for her since she's young.

Plot Device
04-29-2008, 05:59 AM
Email DOES work with these guys. :)

But if you're sending snail mail, (Which would be AWESOME), make sure you address it specifically to the Campus Ledger, or it won't find its way to us.




::EDIT::



Okay, I fixed things us above in Post #3 (http://www.absolutewrite.com/forums/showpost.php?p=2304664&postcount=3) :


How's this:

Campus Ledger News
ATTN: Senior Editor Miguel Morales
Johnson County Community College
12345 College Blvd.,
Overland Park, KS 66210-1299,
913-469-8500




or .....



MANAGING EDITOR: Linda Freidel lfriedel@jccc.edu
FACULTY ADVISOR: Anne Christianson-Bullers abullers@jccc.edu





.

astonwest
04-29-2008, 06:29 AM
Did anyone else find the irony in this part?

“I was doing school one day and it hit me that I should try,” Linhardt said. “It seemed that it was like trying suicide.”

LIVIN
04-29-2008, 06:41 AM
I wrote for a newspaper once upon a time... until they changed quotes... QUOTES... you can't change QUOTES... :rant:

CACTUSWENDY
04-29-2008, 07:05 AM
I know you said snail mail...but I just sent an email, as I may not be able to mail for a few.

Hope it gets read.

Thanks for posting this.

BenPanced
04-29-2008, 08:26 AM
And another teenager signs with PA. They're really pushing it, aren't they?

James D. Macdonald
04-29-2008, 08:37 AM
They need a copy of Atlanta Nights....

Bartholomew
04-29-2008, 09:35 AM
That's old. Miguel isn't with the Ledger anymore.

Our current editor in chief is Alexia Stout.

You need to get emails to EDITOR IN CHIEF Alexia Stout, (the gmail address gets her) Jen Harris, (Doesn't check email that I'm aware of) MANAGING EDITORLinda Freidel (lfriedel@jccc.edu> (javascript:editContact('&quot;Linda Friedel&quot; <lfriedel@jccc.edu>','edit')) ) and Faculty Advisor Anne Christianson-Bullers (abullers@jccc.edu> (javascript:editContact('&quot;Anne Christiansen-Bullers&quot; <abullers@jccc.edu>','edit')))


How's this:

Campus Ledger News
ATTN: Senior Editor Miguel Morales
Johnson County Community College
12345 College Blvd.,
Overland Park, KS 66210-1299,
913-469-8500




or .....



mmorales@jccc.edu





.

Bartholomew
04-29-2008, 09:36 AM
They need a copy of Atlanta Nights....

YES. Yes they do. Can someone hook them up? :)

Bartholomew
04-29-2008, 09:38 AM
Did anyone else find the irony in this part?

I know the girl. She's quite eloquent--I have a hard time believing she actually said that.

Bartholomew
04-29-2008, 09:41 AM
Email contacts and addresses are inundated in this thread. For the love of literacy, please take a few minutes to fire a complaint off to the Ledger editors.

Thanks,

-Bart

Broadswordbabe
04-29-2008, 02:49 PM
Done.

My good deed for the day. Or month, possibly.

JJ Cooper
04-29-2008, 03:03 PM
Two years researching and she comes up with PA. Hope she's more thorough with the research when it comes to school work.

JJ

cethklein
04-29-2008, 05:15 PM
I know the girl. She's quite eloquent--I have a hard time believing she actually said that.

I think that's what is fascinating about PA. So may of those who fall into the trap are otherwise good writers. (of course just as many of them aren't.)

DragonHeart
04-29-2008, 06:18 PM
Email sent.

~DragonHeart~

Plot Device
04-29-2008, 08:02 PM
hey, guys

Here are the two VALID e-mail addresses. (Sorry for the confusion. Thank you Bart for correcting me.)

MANAGING EDITOR: Linda Freidel lfriedel@jccc.edu
FACULTY ADVISOR: Anne Christianson-Bullers abullers@jccc.edu

James D. Macdonald
04-30-2008, 01:31 AM
You can get a copy of Atlanta Nights here. (http://www.lulu.com/content/102550) (Cheap at half the price!)

I'm sure everyone at the paper needs a copy of his/her own.

James D. Macdonald
04-30-2008, 02:38 AM
YES. Yes they do. Can someone hook them up? :)

It's $15.78 (plus postage) direct from Lulu. I think your school library needs a copy too.

I'm sure you can take the lead on scoring a copy for the newspaper. Maybe they'd like to review it?

JulieB
04-30-2008, 03:28 AM
I take that book with me to conventions. One year a bunch of us sat around in the consuite reading from random bits. Quite entertaining.

Your purchase benefits a good cause.

Gillhoughly
05-01-2008, 02:07 AM
Right, I just printed my two-page letter to the editor and put the stamp on the envelope. It goes out tomorrow.

Argh, a 1-minute search on PA would have told that kid she was in the shite by going with them.

http://www.absolutewrite.com/forums/images/icons/icon8.gif

thecraftteens
05-01-2008, 02:12 AM
I found Atlanta Nights for free online, I can't remember where but someone had PDF copies available on their site and you can download it.

SouthernWriter, I believe it is here:

http://www.critters.org/sting/

"My dear, frankly you will give a d*mn!"

^Classic!

choppersmom
05-01-2008, 06:55 AM
I sent an email, and I just might send a real letter too.

Here's what I sent:


To Whom It May Concern:

I'm writing to express my consternation at an article recently published in your paper regarding a student's decision to "publish" a novel with a company called PublishAmerica,

After reading your article, I have to wonder if anyone there took the time to research PublishAmerica in particular, and publishing in general. You stated that other publishers wanted the author to pay them to get her book published. That's not how real publishing works. Real publishers pay writers for the right to sell their books. Writers only pay to have their books printed from print-on-demand (POD) or vanity presses. That's not real publishing.

PublishAmerica has long been known to be a scam in the writing world. Many writers have been suckered by them, and the fortunate ones have escaped with their rights intact. Many are not fortunate or wise enough to sever their ties with PA. They are not a "traditional" publisher, as they enjoy styling themselves, but a vanity press that relies on sales to the author - not the readers, and not booksellers - to make money. They do not screen the manuscripts they accept. they do not edit manuscripts, and in many cases, they have inserted errors into authors' works. They do not market the books they print, that is all up to the authors. All of these are things that real publishers do, because that's how real publishing works. PA is not a real publisher, and I'm outraged that your article makes them appear to be one. They are also notorious in the business for not filling orders, and for neglecting to pay royalties on any sales that are made. Why would you advocate a company that is so clearly a scam? As I suggested, I don't believe anyone on your staff bothered to research this outfit before you printed the story extolling their virtues. I would suggest that perhaps a research/fact-checking department might be an invaluable addition to your publication's operations. I've lost a great deal of respect for your paper based on this situation. I hope you will consider printing a retraction, or at least a clarification of the matter, in your next issue.

Thanks for your time.

Trish
New York

Gillhoughly
05-01-2008, 07:36 PM
Good letter, choppersmom, but I would recommend easing off on the angle that they are promoting PA. I didn't see that in the article so much as their focus being on the writer they were profiling. The only thing I see the paper guilty of is insufficient reseach.

In my mail I said almost the same things you did and put in link addies to support my statements against PA.

THEN I put in that it would make a better story if their paper warned young writers about the predators of publishing and let them know how real publishing works.

I left out all hint that they were promoting PA, just saying that "that poor young writer" did not do enough research and was yet another PA victim.

People just respond better to a crit when there's no blame implied. http://www.absolutewrite.com/forums/images/icons/icon7.gif

choppersmom
05-01-2008, 09:12 PM
Good letter, choppersmom, but I would recommend easing off on the angle that they are promoting PA. I didn't see that in the article so much as their focus being on the writer they were profiling. The only thing I see the paper guilty of is insufficient reseach.

In my mail I said almost the same things you did and put in link addies to support my statements against PA.

THEN I put in that it would make a better story if their paper warned young writers about the predators of publishing and let them know how real publishing works.

I left out all hint that they were promoting PA, just saying that "that poor young writer" did not do enough research and was yet another PA victim.

People just respond better to a crit when there's no blame implied. http://www.absolutewrite.com/forums/images/icons/icon7.gif

I thought of this too, but decided to leave it in - I wanted them to believe people thought they WERE promoting PA, so they'd have the opportunity to do the legwork they should have done in the first place, in order to defend or retract their words. But you're right, and I do agree about crits. The links you included should help them to get the story straight, at least in a perfect world they would!

Gillhoughly
05-01-2008, 10:01 PM
D'OH!

I never thought of that.

http://www.absolutewrite.com/forums/images/icons/icon14.gif

stormie
05-01-2008, 11:26 PM
My email was very short. I hope they didn't just press delete.

choppersmom
05-02-2008, 01:47 AM
D'OH!

I never thought of that.

http://www.absolutewrite.com/forums/images/icons/icon14.gif

Don't worry, I almost didn't either! ;) But that's where they get the saying, two heads are better than one, or in this case, goodness only knows how many heads!

escritora
05-02-2008, 09:07 AM
Email sent

mirrorkisses
05-09-2008, 09:51 AM
GAHH after reading that article I can see the naiveté of this poor girl.
Now, I understand she's young, so she probably doesn't know a lot about the publishing world (although I knew at 18 that I needed to get an agent, but I digress), but she doesn't want to take writing classes? Writing classes are like the ONLY place people are willing to read your work and give real feedback. I mean COME ON here. I loved taking writing classes when I was in high school because it meant I got to do what I loved for an hour inside school. Feedback is really hard to come by, as you all know.

I'm really curious to see how this turns out. So I hope Bart will let us know.

Gillhoughly
05-09-2008, 07:23 PM
A writing class is like having chicken soup when you get a cold. It may not cure the cold, but you'll be better off for it.

Her attitude toward not taking classes is too common. It can stem from being afraid to find out what people REALLY think about one's writing to "my writing comes come ME, no one can teach me this stuff!"

But a class can teach you how to construct a basic sentence, point newbies toward Elements of Style, and perhaps warn the impatient away from vanity houses.

Even Mozart had to take piano lessons from his dad.

AC Crispin
05-09-2008, 08:19 PM
Here's the email I sent to the three addresses posted. Not sure I'll have time to get a snail mail out.

>>>


To Whom It May Concern:

You have done a great disservice to writers, especially young writers, with the article you ran about Abigail Linhardt, making it seem as though a real, commercial publisher acquired her novel, when this is not the case.

Here's an article the Washington Post ran about this "publisher." Perhaps it will help to enlighten you.

Making Books (washingtonpost (http://www.washingtonpost.com/ac2/wp-dyn/A25187-2005Jan20)

As the Chair of Writer Beware, the professional Science Fiction and Fantasy Writers of America's scam "watchdog" committee, I must protest this article. If you have any hopes of journalistic integrity at some point, you will research the situation, and write a followup to your misleading, and quite possibly harmful article.

Writer Beware would be happy to assist you with the FACTS.

Best,

-Ann C. Crispin (A.C. Crispin)
www.accrispin.com
Chair, Writer Beware
www.writerbeware.com (http://www.writerbeware.com/)
Science Fiction and Fantasy Writers of America
www.sfwa.org (http://www.sfwa.org/)

mirrorkisses
05-10-2008, 07:21 AM
Ah! I just read the washington post article. I feel really bad for people who don't realize that when you publish a novel, the publisher does all the promotion, not you. You don't go into a bookstore to schedule a signing, your publisher sends out press releases and such. I would never attempt to get published if I thought I had to pay for all the promotion.

Gillhoughly
05-10-2008, 10:04 AM
You don't go into a bookstore to schedule a signing, your publisher sends out press releases and such. I would never attempt to get published if I thought I had to pay for all the promotion.

Actually, quite a lot of writers DO have to be their own press agents.

Sure, my publisher will put out a press release, but it can get lost in the crowd or may only appear in a trade magazine, not one's home town paper.

Not every writer gets sent on a book tour. I asked about this with my first novel. To my editor's credit she did not laugh out loud.

When you're new or a hard slugging mid-lister you have to toot your own horn.

I've phoned local cable shows to get a guest spot, called newspapers, called writing groups to speak. The local chain bookstores and indies in my area know me. I shake hands and thank the people who stop to chat at signings I've arranged. I've traveled to countless out-of-town conventions on my own nickel and just today got in a shiny new batch of bookmarks to give out at future events.

I maintain a website and a blog to promote the books. The costs of all come out of my pocket and are deducted from my Schedule C form as "advertising."

The difference is, when I say the book I'm promoting is published with (fill in with the name of any of five established print publishers) I get attention and respect.

You say you're with PA and the ones in the know can't wait to get rid of you.
.

mirrorkisses
05-10-2008, 11:16 AM
But all of the promotion? No. . . I understand putting effort into putting your name out there, but publishers are also trying to sell the book.

Gillhoughly
05-10-2008, 07:16 PM
Indeed they are. Unlike PA, mine DO send out review copies, and they have the "Look Inside" feature up on Amazon. (G'ness knows, most PA books don't dare do that or they wouldn't get any sales at all!)

It was a huge thrill to see those first reviews in Locus, Mid-West Book Review, and Publisher's Weekly. I didn't send them copies! (Didn't know enough to do so. Apparently neither does PA.)

I dang-near freaked when I saw a half-page ad on my first book in a magazine.

PA would never, ever do THAT!

No, they come up with daft schemes like getting their victims writers to pay for NYT ad space. I'm sure eager NYT readers scanned the fine print to pick out the names of those PA victims writers, then, consumed with curiosity, promptly logged on to buy their books! :snort: (Yo--writers--have you gotten your money back from the investment?)

They can say "I'm a published writer" all they like, but it cuts no ice with the big kids. PA made sure of that.

I sure wish 60 minutes or Oprah or SOMEONE with influence would do a number on PA. Dr. Phil had a chance (http://www.drphil.com/slideshows/slideshow/3956/?id=3956&isTip=&slide=5&null=null), but didn't take it.


Dr. Phil: "Do y’all think that this book is going to make a lot of money? Is that what this is about?”

“Well, she told me that it was projected, the first check in September was projected to be $3,000,000,” Sarah says.

“No, what I told her was, according to my contract, a million books sold was a $3,000,000 check,” Carrie explains.

Dr. Phil turns to Carrie’s would-be publisher, Batya, from PublishAmerica. He asks her, “How many $3,000,000 checks has PublishAmerica ever written to a new author two months after the book came out?”

“I think I can safely say none,” she says.

(What this transcript leaves out is the deer-in-the-headlights look on the face of the PA rep, Batya.)

So WHO at PA told this would-be millionare she would get a sweet three mil in the first two months?

Shall we start a pool?

Was it . . .

Miranda at her desk with a cell phone?

Wilhelm by his Hellocopter with a joystick?

Larry in his office with a pen?

http://www.absolutewrite.com/forums/images/icons/icon10.gif

JulieB
05-10-2008, 07:48 PM
I think one point G. is trying to make is that all the promotion in the world will do you little or no good if your book has no distribution or if the publisher doesn't offer a standard discount. Sure, there are a few exceptions, but this holds true for most of us.

One thing G. didn't mention is that publishers often buy ads in convention program books and/or send promotional items in support of their authors that are at the event. And if you're with a publisher that has good distribution and offers a decent discount, then you shouldn't have to do a thing to get your books on sale in the dealer's room.

The amount of promotion you do is a personal preference. I know there are people on this board who don't do a lot of promotion.

I attend a fair number of conventions, and if someone wants to comp my admission and/or put me on panels, I won't complain.

Thump
05-10-2008, 08:04 PM
Email sent :)

Gosh, I'm taking a stand! Go me!

mirrorkisses
05-10-2008, 09:19 PM
I think one point G. is trying to make is that all the promotion in the world will do you little or no good if your book has no distribution or if the publisher doesn't offer a standard discount. Sure, there are a few exceptions, but this holds true for most of us.

One thing G. didn't mention is that publishers often buy ads in convention program books and/or send promotional items in support of their authors that are at the event. And if you're with a publisher that has good distribution and offers a decent discount, then you shouldn't have to do a thing to get your books on sale in the dealer's room.

The amount of promotion you do is a personal preference. I know there are people on this board who don't do a lot of promotion.

I attend a fair number of conventions, and if someone wants to comp my admission and/or put me on panels, I won't complain.

I'm aware of that. I was saying that a real publisher does do the promotion and distribution. PA does not, and that should clue people in.

Stacia Kane
05-10-2008, 09:52 PM
I'm aware of that. I was saying that a real publisher does do the promotion and distribution. PA does not, and that should clue people in.

Even my very small press publisher, Juno/Wildside, took out full-page ads in Romantic Times magazine, sent copies to PW well in advance, has sent promo items to bookstores and met with the buyers for those stores, does conventions, etc. etc. etc. I didn't have to beg bookstore managers to stock my book; it's there anyway. I didn't have to use my grocery money to buy ads; the ads are there anyway.

I do a lot of promo for myself, yes; I do contests and reader chats, I belong to a couple of multi-author promo groups, I have a website and blog, etc. etc. But I do it to get my name out there so people remember it when they go to the bookstore and see my book on the shelf, not in hopes of selling a copy out of the trunk of my car.

TsukiRyoko
05-10-2008, 10:49 PM
Emailed my two cents just a moment ago. Effing PublishAmerica- they're a monster that preys on the inexperienced. They're just like telemarketing, using wordplay, false advertisement, and euphemisms to promote their poison. I sent the newspaper a pretty decent sized letter ;)

Pookee
05-11-2008, 01:28 AM
Here's an article in the Frederick News Post about another PA victim. Poor man. I wish more people would write letters to the editor at FNP, especially since it is PA's hometown newspaper. I'm seeing more and more locals get sucked in. Frederick News Post should do an article on the scam PA is, but I think they are concerned about a lawsuit. Who knows?


http://www.fredericknewspost.com/sections/art_life/display_horizon.htm?StoryID=74500

Marie Pacha
05-11-2008, 02:02 AM
Paperback, 331 pages, $24.95

$19.95 through the PA bookstore

Shipping charges through PA SHOULD be (according to their website.) http://www.publishamerica.com/orderinginfo.htm

"Please be advised, 5% sales tax will be added to orders shipped in MD, and those customers wishing their orders to be shipped internationally should change the "Shipping Method" pull-down menu accordingly.

ALL payments are in US Dollars.

Our books ship United States Postal Service Media Mail. For details, see the USPS website.

Our books are non-returnable.

All sales are final.

Please allow 2 to 6 weeks from ordering to delivery on all orders placed without rush specifications.

Domestic Shipping Charges are as follows:

$3.50, plus $.50 for each additional copy."

How'd they charge their authors $2.00 shipping and handling per book in that recent "sale"?

James D. Macdonald
05-11-2008, 02:27 AM
How's Warren's book doing?

Ingram:

On hand: 0
On order: 0
On backorder: 0

This week: 0
Last week: 18

This year: 6
Last year: 0

Bartholomew
05-11-2008, 10:51 AM
The last issue of the paper for the semester is out and they didn't run a retraction. I think the editor's knowledge that I was involved in the email campaign may have tainted the effort.

TsukiRyoko
05-11-2008, 10:57 AM
The last issue of the paper for the semester is out and they didn't run a retraction. I think the editor's knowledge that I was involved in the email campaign may have tainted the effort.
:(

mirrorkisses
05-12-2008, 06:05 AM
Why should it matter that you were involved? Is the editor faculty or a student?

Christine N.
05-12-2008, 02:21 PM
Overall the article was supposed to be about the young lady's achievement. And while it's admirable she's written a book, and I don't want to tarnish her accomplishment, the misinformation in the article is going to lead people to believe that her book was read through and accepted like it would be at a commercial house, and that it will be available in bookstores, neither of which is true.

You don't want to sound like it's sour grapes, you're not upset with or jealous of the author, only the publisher.

SkyeSurfer
05-12-2008, 06:58 PM
Hello all. I read the newspaper article about the guy in MD that just published with PA and had to post a comment. Please don't let me be alone in this. That paper needs to do a follow up article on the scam that PA is at the least, unless of course they really do promote PA's business practices.
I wrote to the paper about the other young lady as well.
I have been busy at work on my second book- almost complete, thank you very much and it will NOT be published by PA. Good Grief who you gotta know to close these parasites down already?

Bartholomew
05-13-2008, 10:20 AM
Why should it matter that you were involved? Is the editor faculty or a student?

Both.

TsukiRyoko
05-13-2008, 11:11 PM
Regardless of whether the editor is faculty or student (or both, as Bart says), it's still a bit of an irresponsible move to ignore a flight of complaints purely because someone on the newspaper team is involved, if that's the case. In any sort of writing, the reader is the most crucial element, and complaints should not be written off- no matter who the complaints are written by. Personally, I think any sort of PA promotion is an injustice :(

Promthanius
06-21-2008, 07:10 PM
Stop talking about me like I'm an idiot. I know PA isn't going to do much with my preciouse book. And they were not so good when they didn't tell me they didn't have an editor to read my book first, but you all are being stupid. You need to stop talking about how dumb I am and how I probably don't do research for my school. You have no idea. You are all ignorant about me and my life, so don't go judging me and cursing my school or it's paper.
And another thing, I have traight A's in all my classes for the last year at JCCC and a 4.0, so can it. And I wasn't even out of highschool when I first started going, I was 17.

DaveKuzminski
06-21-2008, 07:39 PM
Stop talking about me like I'm an idiot. I know PA isn't going to do much with my preciouse book. And they were not so good when they didn't tell me they didn't have an editor to read my book first, but you all are being stupid. You need to stop talking about how dumb I am and how I probably don't do research for my school. You have no idea. You are all ignorant about me and my life, so don't go judging me and cursing my school or it's paper.
And another thing, I have traight A's in all my classes for the last year at JCCC and a 4.0, so can it. And I wasn't even out of highschool when I first started going, I was 17.

4.0? Why am I skeptical of your claim? Could it be the number of errors in your only post that's influencing me?

sassandgroove
06-22-2008, 01:59 AM
Stop talking about me like I'm an idiot. I know PA isn't going to do much with my preciouse book. And they were not so good when they didn't tell me they didn't have an editor to read my book first, but you all are being stupid. You need to stop talking about how dumb I am and how I probably don't do research for my school. You have no idea. You are all ignorant about me and my life, so don't go judging me and cursing my school or it's paper.
And another thing, I have traight A's in all my classes for the last year at JCCC and a 4.0, so can it. And I wasn't even out of highschool when I first started going, I was 17.Dear Abigail- I hope you will stick around an do some research. Just look who all has written to the paper on your behalf. And all of them are focusing on PA being a scam, and recognize your achievement. AC Crispin posted in this thread and wrote to your paper. I've read three of her books. My husband has more I just haven't gotten around to reading them. James McDonald is also published. Take advantage of this place and of your age and of school. Learn all that you can. Read everything and anything. And for petesakes take writing classes. Don't let PA mar your future. Heed what these good people are trying to do. We have a whole section here just about Publish America. Doesn't that tell you something? It is frequented by a full range of writers from the published many times over to the newbs, including those burned by PA. Who better to learn from? And then try out the novel writing forum, there is so much to learn and and it is so great to be surrounded by other writers and talk about the art of writing. I hope you'll stick around.

Alexandra Little
06-22-2008, 05:22 AM
And another thing, I have traight A's in all my classes for the last year at JCCC and a 4.0, so can it. And I wasn't even out of highschool when I first started going, I was 17.

JCCC is a community college, and going at 17 is not a big deal. I went at 16. My friend started earlier. There was a 14 year old in one of my classes. Not being out of high school when you start at a CC is not a big deal--plenty of high schoolers start early, which you would have seen in the enrollment lines as high schoolers often have their own separate enrollment dates.

I also had straight A's while in community college. Again, not a big deal. All it proves is that you are able to regurgitate what the professors want you to (and I did plenty of regurgitating). In all the times I have heard people brag about their qualifications, each one of them had nothing else to recommend them. It just proves that they could follow orders long enough to get the qualifications.

That you started (*community*) college at 17 while in high school, have straight A's, and have a 4.0 GPA proves nothing at all, is never a bragging point, and won't matter in the long run.

Take Sassandgroove's advice.

James D. Macdonald
06-22-2008, 06:07 AM
Everyone, calm.

This young lady is not anyone's enemy.

I certainly wish her well.

LC123
06-22-2008, 08:04 AM
(and I did plenty of regurgitating).

Looks like you're still doing it.

James D. Macdonald
06-22-2008, 02:23 PM
Calm, everyone.

Gravity
06-22-2008, 09:19 PM
We'll never hear from her again. She got what she wanted, and as we say down South, she's happy as a pig in slop.

Khazarkhum
06-23-2008, 05:52 AM
The bar can be set pretty darn low at a JC. We used to call some of their classes 'high school with ashtrays'.

That being said, I think the young lady has found her niche in publishing.

James D. Macdonald
06-23-2008, 08:28 AM
Her book might be wonderful. I don't know. I haven't read it.

The point is that neither has anyone in Frederick, MD.

LC123
06-23-2008, 05:34 PM
The bar can be set pretty darn low at a JC. We used to call some of their classes 'high school with ashtrays'.

I assume this is from your vantage point as a student there. You must be really old, since smoking hasn't been allowed in classes in forever.

Now that you're an Ivy League prof who takes time from your busy, high-dollar speech-making schedule to make hundreds of posts here, perhaps you could post one about how you got there?

Khazarkhum
06-24-2008, 12:35 AM
Her book might be wonderful. I don't know. I haven't read it.

The point is that neither has anyone in Frederick, MD.

Amen.

Do they even read the query?

sassandgroove
06-24-2008, 12:51 AM
JCCC is a community college, and going at 17 is not a big deal. I went at 16. My friend started earlier. There was a 14 year old in one of my classes. Not being out of high school when you start at a CC is not a big deal--plenty of high schoolers start early, which you would have seen in the enrollment lines as high schoolers often have their own separate enrollment dates.

I also had straight A's while in community college. Again, not a big deal. All it proves is that you are able to regurgitate what the professors want you to (and I did plenty of regurgitating). In all the times I have heard people brag about their qualifications, each one of them had nothing else to recommend them. It just proves that they could follow orders long enough to get the qualifications.

That you started (*community*) college at 17 while in high school, have straight A's, and have a 4.0 GPA proves nothing at all, is never a bragging point, and won't matter in the long run.

Take Sassandgroove's advice.I understand the point behind the post I think and thanks for the nod, but i think right now Abigail needs posts more along the lines of Uncle Jim's. Abigail if you are still here we just don't want to see you get caught up in PA's web of lies. Use this time and place as an opportunity to learn.

sassandgroove
06-24-2008, 01:05 AM
here are some threads that you, Abigail, might find useful.

How real publishing works (http://www.absolutewrite.com/forums/showthread.php?t=20586)
This thread was started by Jenna Glatzer, author of 17 books (i think). She also started Absolute Write - in part to warn against Publish America.

Here is another thread by Jenna
Why we don't recommend PA (http://www.absolutewrite.com/forums/showthread.php?t=10211&highlight=publish%3B+work)

Just remember a few things.
1) it doesn't matter how old or young you are there is always more to learn.
2) money flows toward the author
3) a 4.0 at a JC is good, but that doesn't make you better than anyone else here and doesn't expempt you from the steps all writers have to take to learn to write well and be published.

James D. Macdonald
06-24-2008, 03:56 AM
Heck, a 4.0 at a major Ivy-league university doesn't exempt you from learning how to write.

The slushpiles of New York are awash with unreadable novels from tenured professors.

sassandgroove
06-24-2008, 06:16 PM
:) I took several writing classes, but I didn't make strides with my novel writing until I read a couple novel writing books on my own and read Uncle Jim's thread in the Novel Writing forum. Also just hanging out in that forum has helped me so much, discussing my WIP, discussing writing in general, reading about other people's writing experience and thoughts.

Bluestone
07-16-2008, 07:05 PM
I posted on another PA thread (OMG is it hard to find the right one with so many!) a mention of my local newspaper's HUGE article about this poor woman toiling away for 20 years to find an agent and bingo Publish America picked her up. I felt so sorry for her.

Then, because I was morbidly curious, I started looking at the books on their site and noticed that EVERY "rating" on their site was 5 star for all the books. Okay, so they were plants. But then I went to Amazon and Barnes and Noble and was stunned to see that the PA books also rated - for the most part - 5 stars! I even searched inside an Amazon book (most of them, curiously, you can't search inside which tells me something about PA's unwillingness to expose their books to closer scrutiny). Inside this book (which rated 5 stars by several reviewers) were so many punctuation and grammatical errors it was awful. But wait, that's not all! Some of the errors were circled and had arrows to them in pen ink! On this printed copy on Amazon! I wonder if a proof had gone to Amazon or if every one of this author's books had similar marks in them. The level of incompetence, and deceit, is hard to comprehend. Shouldn't this be illegal?

VGrossack
07-16-2008, 07:31 PM
Bluestone:

The copy in question was almost certainly sent in by the author, not by Publish America. Publishers and authors are both invited to do so - but I can't see why PA would make an effort on the behalf of its customers, as that would mean incurring a marketing expense, which they basically never do. Nor can I imagine them opening a book after it's already printed and proofing it.

Promthanius
07-16-2008, 08:00 PM
I was not saying that I am better than any one here. Far from it--I'm a homschooled crountry girl who has never gone anywhere except Mexico, Knoxville and Colorado. I never said i NEVER wanted to take writing classes (i'm taking one this Fall) i meant I wasn't ready at the time. Duh, people. I was new to being "out" and wasn't yet "introduced" to my writing. We were stills stranger sto each other--even though I had been that book since I was 11.
I am not mad at any of you, though I will say that some of you are very mean without a cause. I thought yo might be mad that I was happy where I was with PA, but being mad at you like that doens't help anything. And no, i don't take every percation to write perfectly on this forum (Mr. You Have Errors In your Post) becasue I don't intend to TRY and show off my writing abilities on the internet in a chat room.
To those who said kind things and tried to encourage me, thank you very much. It is heart breaking to think that some writers could talk to me like the other people. Writers should never talk so meanly to other writers. Infact, people shouldn't. I always thought writers were like my goth friends (I am goth). When a goth passes another one, no matter where (the store, school) they always acknowledge one another with a nodd or a smile ro a comment about thier shirt, bag, hat, ect. We don't know each other but we do know each other at the same time. I always thought that that was how it would be if I ever found a den of writers like this. I was sad when I came here instead of pleased. I wanted help and encouragement, not mean words and dark crtiticism. You can critique without being mean.
So please help me and don't judge me. I met Bartholemew a while a ago and wish that he would come to my defense over this, but oh well. I only want help, not mean words. You ever see Bambi? "If you can't something nice, then don't say it at all."
I know my book is full of typos and the like--I thought PA had an editor, but now I am prepared when I go back for my sequile. You all sit her brewding, have you ever tried to promote your own book? I had 50 people at my book singing becasue I did some work. You can't sit back and hope someone else makes your book famouse. Don't you want to work for your baby? I am not being mean in the least, I just want to understand what your thinking.
Well, if you read all this, thanks unless you were just looking for more to criticize...again, thanks to all those who tried to help me.

VGrossack
07-16-2008, 09:01 PM
Abigail:

It sounds as if you discovered this forum in the most horrible way possible. I can relate, because it is how I discovered it. Someone had lifted some words that I had written on a bulletin board and had excerpted it and challenged everything I said - basically calling me a liar.

(NOTE to everyone: That message takes some detective work to associate with me. But I'm still pretty irked by it.)

But although this forum was not correct in some of the details with respect to me and my writing, the people were dead on with respect to PA. I eventually had to get out of my contract with them, because they were using my name so much in promotion to lure in other unsuspecting authors. PA is not exactly a scam operation, but they are a very slimy enterprise.

Abigail, you managed to write a book. Great! Kudos to you! But don't stop there. Go to other sections of this forum and discover topics about how to write. Learn about the real publishing industry. If you want to get out of your contract with PA, you'll find threads on how to do this.

And, by the way, spelling does matter, even on the web. Every word you write becomes part of your repertoire.

Good luck!

Bluestone
07-16-2008, 09:16 PM
I am not mad at any of you, though I will say that some of you are very mean without a cause. I thought yo might be mad that I was happy where I was with PA, but being mad at you like that doens't help anything. You can critique without being mean.

I agree with Victoria on all counts: that you found this board in the worst possible way, that spelling and grammar does count (even though we all make mistakes) and you should try to work on that even when posting. And that you are to be congratulated for your hard work in producing a book. I honestly have not meant to denigrate the writers who come unwittingly to PA to have their books published and their dreams realized and I'm so sorry if any of my comments have contributed to your hurt feelings. I was just horrified at the way PA has managed to dash so many of those dreams and make a considerable amount of money in the process.

I've only found support, advice and a wonderful spirit of sharing at AW and I hope you find the same.

Best of luck with your work.

DeadlyAccurate
07-16-2008, 09:18 PM
And no, i don't take every percation to write perfectly on this forum (Mr. You Have Errors In your Post) becasue I don't intend to TRY and show off my writing abilities on the internet in a chat room.

This is a messageboard, not a chat room. There's time to compose your responses so they present your thoughts clearly and concisely. It's also a board filled with agents, editors, publishers, and writers; people for whom good writing matters.

Second, don't look at it as showing off your writing ability. Look at it as yet one more place where you can practice good writing skills. Words are your tools. Don't you want to use them to the best of your ability?

sassandgroove
07-16-2008, 09:20 PM
And no, i don't take every percation to write perfectly on this forum (Mr. You Have Errors In your Post) becasue I don't intend to TRY and show off my writing abilities on the internet in a chat room.
But as writers, we should always make an effort to write correctly, no matter the forum. Writers notice mistakes, that is part of being a writer. We give each other some latitude, given that these are conversations and not formal writing, but we at least TRY. Go talk to Bart. He only brought this all to light because he cares.

Marian Perera
07-16-2008, 10:01 PM
You can't sit back and hope someone else makes your book famouse. Don't you want to work for your baby?

I've already worked by writing, editing and revising the manuscript and doing research on agents and publishers. I don't intend to do the sales department's job as well.

As for being "famouse", could you tell me how many PA authors hit the bestseller lists by promoting their books?

Finally, I don't see my manuscript as a "baby". It's a labor of love, but it's also a product that I would like to sell, so I don't refer to it as a "baby".

sassandgroove
07-16-2008, 11:13 PM
I was new to being "out" and wasn't yet "introduced" to my writing.ANother reason it is good to TRY online -- what does this sentence mean?

Stacia Kane
07-17-2008, 12:23 AM
You all sit her brewding, have you ever tried to promote your own book? I had 50 people at my book singing becasue I did some work. You can't sit back and hope someone else makes your book famouse. Don't you want to work for your baby? I am not being mean in the least, I just want to understand what your thinking.


When I'm not sitting here brooding, I'm writing my own published books. I think you'll find that many of us here are published, with houses that pay us real advances and real royalties, give us strenuous professional editing, promote our work, make it available in bookstores, etc. etc. etc.

So yes, I have tried to promote my own book. And I don't sit back and wait for someone else to make my book famous; I do what I can and what I enjoy/am comfortable with. For me that's mostly blogging. I run a contest once in a great while to celebrate a new release. Review sites and reader websites covering my genres contact me on occasion for interviews; I'm always happy to do those. But there's a difference between the sort of promotion I do and actually walking into bookstores to try and convince the managers to carry my books. I don't do that. My publishers do. I also don't make lollipop trees or stick flyers under windshield wipers or stick business cards in the envelopes when I pay my bills or slip copies of my books onto shelves in stores or spam web forums or create Wikipedia entries for myself or any number of other useless crackpot schemes we've seen from those whose books are printed by PA.

I'm glad you came back, and I hope you stay. If writing is something you want to do, this is the place to be, and we'll help you however we can. But we are also all adults (if not in age, then in temperament) with a variety of opinions, and we express them. We're not going to hold your hand or do the work for you. We're not going to act as though the fact that we all write means we have to be best pals.

What we do strive to do here, though, is respect each other, and while not all the comments made in this thread have been respectful and I feel bad about that, it is also not respectful to us to say that we are not worthy of any effort on your behalf to make yourself understood. Correct spelling and grammar when communicating through writing are a sign of respect for your audience. More than that, correct spelling and grammar are important to writers. If you care passionately about words (as most of us do and as you should do if you want to make even a modest stipend from it) badly spelled, poorly constructed sentences are like nails on a chalkboard.

I do hope you stick around, and I mean that sincerely. Writing a novel at your age is an accomplishment, and one you should be proud of. I just believe strongly that pride should also inspire in you pride of craft--which means wanting to treat words with the respect they deserve.

(And by the way, while I love my books, I don't consider them to be my babies either.)

JMO. And looking forward to getting to know you better.

Khazarkhum
07-17-2008, 12:31 AM
I was not saying that I am better than any one here. Far from it--I'm a homschooled crountry girl who has never gone anywhere except Mexico, Knoxville and Colorado. I never said i NEVER wanted to take writing classes (i'm taking one this Fall) i meant I wasn't ready at the time. Duh, people. I was new to being "out" and wasn't yet "introduced" to my writing. We were stills stranger sto each other--even though I had been that book since I was 11.

Abigail, you sound very young. Heck, if you saw the junk I put out at that age--well, let's not go there. ;)
:tongue:tongue
PA has been a learning experience for you. Most people do not find the experience to be a happy one. They quickly find that their dream of being published has turned into a nightmare. They have to buy their own books, or they have to get family and friends to do so. But since the books can't be found in bookstores, there's little chance anyone else will find them and love them.

I do consider my work a baby; I spend enough time with it! :tongue

But you should expect your publishers to do the advertising for you. If there's a niche market, you point it out. You may ask your local bookstores about signings, but it's the publisher who supplies the books. Same with special events--if there's a local festival, your publisher supplies the books.

I personally am forgiving about spelling errors in posts & such--my fingers are always getting tangled. But when those errors appear in print, I'm not forgiving. Those should be fixed long before the book goes to press. Sure, there will be mistakes, but you shouldn't be seeing them on every page.

Nobody wants to shut you up or shout you down. What we do want for you is for you & your books to have the best publishing experience possible. And unfortunately, PA doesn't do that.

Bartholomew
07-17-2008, 10:20 AM
Oh, dear. I never meant to cause all this drama.

VGrossack
07-17-2008, 12:11 PM
Bartholomew,

I think it would have been better if you had not included the young author's name in your original post.

Bartholomew
07-17-2008, 12:59 PM
Bartholomew,

I think it would have been better if you had not included the young author's name in your original post.

Probably. I meant the focus to be on the newspaper's lack of journalistic integrity by failing to discuss the publisher in any light whatsoever, not the author, whom is not only very well spoken in person, but also an outstanding guitarist.

sassandgroove
07-17-2008, 06:41 PM
But how could Bart reference the article and not mention her? she's in the article. Bart couldn't know the direction the thread would take. What needs to happen is AWers need to realize we are all ambassadors for AW and writers and need to be less harsh towards writers who are learning the hard way about places like PA. These posts are PUBLIC. I know sometimes I forget that not just my friends here can read mine.

VGrossack
07-17-2008, 06:43 PM
But how could Bart reference the article and not mention her? she's in the article. Bart couldn't know the direction the thread would take. What needs to happen is AWers need to realize we are all ambassadors for AW and writers and need to be less harsh towards writers who are learning the hard way about places like PA. These posts are PUBLIC. I know sometimes I forget that not just my friends here can read mine.

Easy enough - delete her name! In fact, Bart has already done this.

Promthanius
07-17-2008, 06:57 PM
Probably. I meant the focus to be on the newspaper's lack of journalistic integrity by failing to discuss the publisher in any light whatsoever, not the author, whom is not only very well spoken in person, but also an outstanding guitarist.

Hahaha, hey Bart! Thanks for that little complement about my poor guitar.

And to every one else, thanks too! :-) Some of you say you are published by other people--is there any way you help in the general direction? I have other books that I really want to publish and I heading towards Lulu (which by the looks of it would not get me any farther then PA).

Another thing, where are some of these threads that people keep mentioning about "how to write"? I would like to see what you all have said since you seem to have "been there, done that" and everything.

Thanks for all the help you have strived to be and sure thing, I am going to stick around here for a while. And if it puts any of you "adults" to rest *hehehe* I'm 19 years old. Not quite a kid in personality either. ;-)

JulieB
07-17-2008, 07:24 PM
Welcome to the Cooler!

Scroll to the top of the page and click on Absolute Write Water Cooler (http://absolutewrite.com/forums/index.php).

You'll want the Writing Studios (http://absolutewrite.com/forums/forumdisplay.php?f=1) area. And just so you don't have to go searching, here's Learn Writing with Uncle Jim (http://absolutewrite.com/forums/showthread.php?t=6710).

Feel free to poke around you'll find lots of good information and many helpful folks.

AnneMarble
07-17-2008, 07:26 PM
Another thing, where are some of these threads that people keep mentioning about "how to write"? I would like to see what you all have said since you seem to have "been there, done that" and everything.

Here are a few forums:
Basic Writing Questions (http://absolutewrite.com/forums/forumdisplay.php?f=175)
(I've been here for years, but I sometimes end up having to ask questions here. :D)

Writing Novels (http://absolutewrite.com/forums/forumdisplay.php?f=2)

This includes the famous Learn Writing with Uncle Jim thread (http://absolutewrite.com/forums/showthread.php?t=6710).

Since Bart mentioned your guitar, there's also one on Music and Songwriting (http://absolutewrite.com/forums/forumdisplay.php?f=19).

There are also lots of genre-specific forums, plus forums for writing nonfiction books, articles, poetry, young adult fiction, etc., plus "ask the expert" type forums, as well as forums for just playing around. Basically, if you click the Absolute Write Water Cooler (http://absolutewrite.com/forums/index.php) link at the top of this forum, you can access almost every forum at AW.

Momento Mori
07-17-2008, 07:29 PM
Hi, Promthanius and welcome to AW.


Promthanius:
Some of you say you are published by other people--is there any way you help in the general direction?

It depends what you mean by "help". There's no short-cut to getting published, and whilst those people here who have been published can give you some great insights into how the industry works and how to produce a good manuscript, at the end of the day, the only person who can do the work is you and the best way to learn about writing and publishing is to research how the industry works and to learn about the craft of writing.

Browsing the forums here on AW is a good place to start, but you should also check out some books on writing (I'd personally recommend Stephen King's On Writing as a good starting point because it's easy to read and has tonnes of good tips). Taking a good writing course at your local college can help you with the craft and reading agent or publisher's blogs can help you to learn about the industry.

In practical terms, the first step is to work on polishing your manuscript. Completing a first draft is a great accomplishment, but it's still only one step in a long road. Once you've done that draft, you need to re-read it, find out where the grammatical and typographical mistakes are and correct them, think about whether the structure, dialogue and characterisation works and amend and polish those and keep doing that until you have the best manuscript possible.

Ideally, you should try to find some people who are able to read your manuscript and give you honest and constructive criticism. There are Forums here on AW where you can post excerpts from your work and find beta readers. You then need to decide whether you're going to take on board the comments that these people give and amend your manuscript accordingly.

Once you've got the manuscript to the point where you don't think there's anything left to improve it, you need to work on a query letter for an agent. Again, there are forums here on AW where you can post your query letter for people to take a look at and comment on.

You then need to research which agents are the best targets for your query letter. There are websites that can help you do this like Agent Query and books like Publisher's Marketplace. You can check any agents here on AW if you're not sure about them or have any other queries about their submission process. Query letters are best sent out in batches (the advice I generally see is batches of 5). Follow an agent's submission requirements to the letter, so if they ask you to send a query letter and the first 10 pages, send your query letter and the first 10 pages. If they just want the query letter, then just send the query letter.

You then have to wait for responses, so whilst you're waiting, work on your next book (and if I were you, I'd make sure that book is a separate, stand-alone novel, even if you're planning a series from your first book).

If agents ask for partials, you send them the requested material. If they ask for fulls, you send your whole manuscript.

You then wait some more, so keep working on your next novel.

If you go through 10 query letters and no agent asks for a partial/full, then it might be worth while running your query letter past the people here at AW again. If an agent asks for a partial but then rejects you, take note of anything they say in their rejection letter that's personalised (and if they don't say anything, don't ask for feedback but instead take a long hard look at the partial and see about running it past more people for feedback). If agents reject you on your full manuscript, rinse and repeat the process for rejection of a partial.

If you get to the end of the process and no agent wants your novel, then put it to one side, concentrate on finishing your second novel and go through the whole thing again.

If an agent does want your novel and signs you up, then you're probably going to go through the whole process of rewriting as it gets sent out to publishers and again, you should be prepared in case no publisher decides to pick up your novel. Whilst getting an agent is still the best way of getting published, it's not a guarantee unfortunately.

You're going to discover however, that there is an awful lot of rejection and heart break in this business. That means you'll have to develop a thick skin and understand that if your manuscript is rejected, it's not personal and they're not being mean. The best way to start that is to stop thinking of it as your "baby" and start thinking of it objectively - only when you're able to distance yourself from it, will you be able to view it critically and think about how it can be improved.


Promthanius:
I have other books that I really want to publish and I heading towards Lulu (which by the looks of it would not get me any farther then PA).

Self-publishing works if you have a niche book that is unlikely to find a home with the large publishers or any of the small presses (e.g. poetry, local interest books) or if you have a specific aim (e.g. you just want something to give to friends and family).

If you have other novels written, then pick the best, sit down and start polishing it as best as you can and then do what I said above. It's quality, not quantity that gets your foot in the door.

MM

Stacia Kane
07-17-2008, 07:33 PM
What Momento Mori said. :)

Also, if you're looking for info on where specifically any of us are published, a lot of us have links to our websites at the bottom of our posts. There's also the AW Library where we post info on our books, with links to Amazon or Powell's or publisher's websites or whatever:

http://www.absolutewrite.com/forums/forumdisplay.php?f=91


Glad you've decided to stick around! :)

IceCreamEmpress
07-17-2008, 08:40 PM
Some other books I think are really useful when you're thinking about publishing fiction:

The Artful Edit by Susan Bell
Self-Editing for Fiction Writers by Browne and King
The Shortest Distance Between You and a Published Book by Susan Page
The Sell Your Novel Toolkit by Elizabeth Lyon

and, really, for everyone

The Street-Smart Writer by Jenna Glatzer (founder of this very board! :) )


Nobody here is angry with you, or thinks less of you, for choosing to work with PublishAmerica. I promise you that.

What we are angry about is PublishAmerica's misleading marketing, poor quality (in terms of editing, printing, and binding), and broken promises to its authors.

Best of luck with all your future endeavors.

AnneMarble
07-17-2008, 09:16 PM
and, really, for everyone

The Street-Smart Writer by Jenna Glatzer (founder of this very board! :) )
It's also available for free if you sign up for a site thingie:
http://absolutewrite.com/forums/showthread.php?t=100943


Nobody here is angry with you, or thinks less of you, for choosing to work with PublishAmerica. I promise you that.

What we are angry about is PublishAmerica's misleading marketing, poor quality (in terms of editing, printing, and binding), and broken promises to its authors.
That's what we make fun of things like the helicopter that belongs to one of the owners. At the same time, we're annoyed that he spends money on a helicopter instead of better editors. :(

BenPanced
07-17-2008, 09:29 PM
Hahaha, hey Bart! Thanks for that little complement about my poor guitar.

And to every one else, thanks too! :-) Some of you say you are published by other people--is there any way you help in the general direction? I have other books that I really want to publish and I heading towards Lulu (which by the looks of it would not get me any farther then PA).

Another thing, where are some of these threads that people keep mentioning about "how to write"? I would like to see what you all have said since you seem to have "been there, done that" and everything.

Thanks for all the help you have strived to be and sure thing, I am going to stick around here for a while. And if it puts any of you "adults" to rest *hehehe* I'm 19 years old. Not quite a kid in personality either. ;-)
Also check out the Share Your Work areas. Once you have a piece edited and rewritten that you feel is ready, post it for critique from other AW members. It's a great help, and I've always come away with new insight on my work.

kullervo
07-17-2008, 10:17 PM
And just because PA is running a revival meeting 24/7 and we're often pretty nice here, don't start thinking that the world of writing is 100% happy kindness. There's been plenty of cruelty and weirdness in writing. Always has been, always will be. Unfortunately, writers are humans. They are often flawed and damaged humans. That's what makes their writing so interesting. Check out Hemingway & Faulkner's tag-team against Andersen, their former mentor. Or Naipaul vs. Theroux. Heck, check out Naipaul vs. his first wife. Mailer, Roth, Thompson, and on and on. Not a banquet of kindness and mental health. Heck, Joyce used to pick fights in bars and then send Hemingway to beat on the other guy. And as for what Hemingway was known to do in bars...

In short, look for friends, family, and support away from the world of writing and writers. The kids are not always okay...

AnneMarble
07-17-2008, 10:38 PM
Also check out the Share Your Work areas. Once you have a piece edited and rewritten that you feel is ready, post it for critique from other AW members. It's a great help, and I've always come away with new insight on my work.
Speaking from personal experience (:o), don't put an early draft up in Share Your Work. Shudder shudder. Rewrite it a bunch first. Otherwise...
:e2thud:

It's also kinder to the people who are reading it. I didn't have major errors in my piece, but I had a some thingies that added up. For example, I didn't have a good idea of my setting yet, and that showed in the writing. That meant my characters couldn't decide where they were standing and how they were moving, and on top of all that, they came across as drama queens. Ick. :tongue If this makes any sense, it might be better to wait until your story feels like a comfy sweater against your skin. Mine was still scratchy.

Bartholomew
07-18-2008, 10:26 AM
Hahaha, hey Bart! Thanks for that little complement about my poor guitar.

And to every one else, thanks too! :-) Some of you say you are published by other people--is there any way you help in the general direction? I have other books that I really want to publish and I heading towards Lulu (which by the looks of it would not get me any farther then PA).

Another thing, where are some of these threads that people keep mentioning about "how to write"? I would like to see what you all have said since you seem to have "been there, done that" and everything.

Thanks for all the help you have strived to be and sure thing, I am going to stick around here for a while. And if it puts any of you "adults" to rest *hehehe* I'm 19 years old. Not quite a kid in personality either. ;-)

Glad to hear you're going to stick around for a while.

If you really want to make progress writing, spend more time doing so and less time worrying about a publisher. Get two or three things you can circulate, and then research potential buyers out of resources such as the Writer's Market.

That said, we need to get together and jam sometime.

allenparker
07-18-2008, 06:31 PM
And just because PA is running a revival meeting 24/7 and we're often pretty nice here, don't start thinking that the world of writing is 100% happy kindness. There's been plenty of cruelty and weirdness in writing.


Kullervo, this has not been my experience.

Now, I am not a well known writer. I have one book with a micro-publisher and a reprint of my other two books coming out shortly. So take what I say with this in mind.

I have received support from all over the place. I have discussed many topics on here with writers like Uncle Jim, Jenna, Dave K., and others. I have spent a goodly amount of time talking with Tee Morris, well known fantasy writer, non fiction writer, and pod caster. I have had lots of help in working with my WIP in forums here from too many people to name. I have been treated well by Cathy Maxwell, Patricia Terril, and Dave Barry. All of these people met me when I was a PA author.

Any one of them had the right to tell me all the bad things that could be said for my book, my publisher, or my writing skills. Instead, they received me graciously and with respect. One even sent a postcard to me making small suggestions about timing and story arc. The suggestions changed the face of my writing. It strengthened my voice and added clarity to my story. And the suggestions fit on a post card.

Writers are people. Sure there are some really lousy people who are writers. But mostly there are just ordinary people who love the art of writing, no matter where they find it.

And in case you are wondering, yes, I have been in my share of bar fights. To my defense, it was a job requirement. You can''t be around squids all day long and not defend the jarhead world.

JulieB
07-18-2008, 07:13 PM
Actually, I left the first crit group I joined due to the attitude of the guy who ran it. He was a very "ivory tower" sort of guy, and if you didn't write his kind of material you were the scum of the earth, and he flung that piece of "wisdom" at the new folks in the room with a certain belligerent glee. I don't think any of the new people who showed up at that particular meeting ever returned. I didn't, and neither did the friend who went with me.

So yes, writers are humans and there are some jerks just like you'll find jerks in your office or your classroom, or in line at Starbucks. But don't let that stop you from improving your craft.